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Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Topic started by: Skullar on April 13, 2007, 03:45:18 pm

Title: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Skullar on April 13, 2007, 03:45:18 pm
Something came to my attention when I read over the WCS site and heard TOLWYN expressing his joy on the number of willing helpers that were attracted by the PROLOGUE release.

Development and public interest in TBP faded over the years, and I had the impression the project was nothing but a "lets get ALL ship models together" project for quite some time. I.P.Andrews spiced the community up with RAIDER WARS, Madaboutgames made some attempts to provide something to play with, but my personal opinion is that TBP lacks a ( number of ) SOLID and CONSISTENT campaign(s) that somehow underline we do not only port SHIPS into FS2, but only our PLOTS.

Wing Commander Saga and Galactica showed it : Decisive milestones in the development push the project and attract support.
I was thinking to push to something MAJOR.

When the TBP team split up into the CORE team and the CAMPAIGN team some time ago, the CORE team survived and was carried on to what it is now, while the fredders and mission designers ended up FUBAR. There has not been any SERIOUS mission and campaign development in a team.

How would you like to form up a new "official" campaign team ? To get a little support for each others work ?
Not only the happenings from the show, we have also 2 campaigns with own plots that give a frame where additional work could fit in.

Somepeople asked about doing a campaign.

I have the following in mind : We should combine our efforts, decide on a number of ideas to become "official" and to be pushed into release form. Aside RAIDER WARS, TBP has been a mesh collection without missions for too long in my opinion.

So, how about a set of campaigns, with own plots, offering to play most of the canon races, campaigns that have crossovers, allowing you to play a mission from another point of view. Like in AVP2, where you met your alter ego as marine, alien or predator. Or as in HALF LIFE, opposing forces, where you saw yourself ( as gordon freeman ) jump into the dimensional distortion rift to XEN.

So far, in addition to the canon plot from the show, we have 2 campaign plots that could blend in and refered to in YOUR campaigns.
RAIDER WARS and THE EARTH ALLIANCE CIVIL WAR.

I will report on the second one in detail, at first I would like to ask you.... are you interested in letting your campaign blend in the "official TBP contents", and to work on ALL "official" campaigns as a team member, not only on YOUR campaign ?

I say an ultimate goal would be a set of "official TBP campaigns" , all with voiceacting, cutscenes and crossovers with each other.
Who would be willing to create and join something like an "OFFICIAL TBP CAMPAIGN TEAM, not dealing with MINE, YOUR, HIS or THEIR campaigns, only with OURS ? We could start with storyboard brainstorming on ALL campaigns in a thread, IF you have access to campaign internal forum...

Since there ARE people around to have stuff in development, or wanting to create an own campaign, no bad idea.
I.P.Andrews could finally share his special TBP-related FRED knowledge with the team members, so it wouldn't die out when he leaves.

Example :

A possible set could be :
- Raider Wars ( latest build, already completed by I.P.Andrews )
- Earth Alliance Civil War ( follows path of a pilot on EAS Alexander till end of shadow war, then on Babylon 5 till NO SURRENDER, NO RETREAT, than again on Alexander ) Lt.Cmdr. Dan Hale was hinted at in RAIDER WARS epilogue.
- Psi Corps campaign initiated by TERRAN EMPEROR ( plot unknown )
- A NARN campaign for example of a G'Tok pilot.... --> crossover missions with Centauri and Civil War campaigns
- A CENTAURI campaign....  ---> crossover missions with NARN campaign
- A RANGER campaign, either during shadow war oder situated later.
- A League campaign
- A Minbari campaign , lots of possibilities WHEN and against WHOM.

Thats quite ambitionate, isnt it ?
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Unknown Target on April 14, 2007, 12:25:42 am
I think it's a little bit much to have multiple campaigns for one release...just one solid, voice-acted, well written and executed campaign should be enough, with the user-made campaigns added as "bonus" material. Too much choice adds confusion and spreads the focus of the game around too much - just one tight and well done campaign would do the trick.

The reason I never really took interest in TBP was because of just this - there was no way I could just download the game, install it and play - I had to either make my own missions or go find other people's. If there was a "real" TBP campaign that was on the same quality level as WCS or BtRL's demo campaigns, then I think you'd definitely attract a LOT more people.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: IPAndrews on April 15, 2007, 12:34:13 pm
I think Unknown Target is right in detail. I think Skullar is right in spirit.

With the 3.4 betas the TBP core is done. It will not be developed further. There is no need.

We have given you all the tools to tell fantastic stories in the Babylon 5 universe. All it takes is a small amount of time and imagination.

On behalf of the team that has spent so much time bringing you the TBP game engine I ask whoever might be reading this now to spread the world that the "Babylon 5 space combat game construction kit" exists and is here and is waiting to be used... and to use it.

Just remember that writing campaigns is easier if you share the work. So find out who is working on campaigns. Who wants to. Share ideas. Keep your aims small and achievable. 10 mission campaigns tops. Divide up the work. Work together.  That way your dream campaigns will make it on the the screens.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Skullar on April 16, 2007, 04:24:37 am
"When shall we meet again? In Thunder, lightning or in rain ?
When the battle's lost or won, when the hurlyburly's done ?"

Right in spirit... right in detail.... I.P., you are just "too" reasonable for this job. :)

Who cares if it can be done or not, as long I have a good time working on it ?
If I had been thinking like you, I would have never made the EACW script ! lol

My head is full with ideas, but at first I will start to FRED myself...



Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: terran_emperor on April 16, 2007, 09:50:22 am
My Idea for A Psi-corps campaign would be the Telepath war, either as a EA pilot (possibly a latent Teep) or as a Psi-corp pilot. Who goes under cover in Ea at some point during the campaign. I'll post more, when I've had a chance to develop the story a bit more
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: IPAndrews on April 16, 2007, 09:59:36 am
Maybe brainstorm with Skullar? He's an experienced writer.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: terran_emperor on April 16, 2007, 10:44:57 am
I do have ideas. I just can't expand on them at the moment. I have exams soon. They're my main priority now. After they are out of the way, I'll be able to post the Ideas once I've done them. I may do both  my suggestions, either as seperate campaign the same style as Jedi Starfighter. In that, you played some missions as one character, and others as the other.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Skullar on April 17, 2007, 08:38:57 am
I had a brainstorming, but I forgot my USB-stick at home, and cannot post what I came up with. I'll copy-paste it tomorrow ( probably ).

I'll just post the basic things I came up with :


General thoughts regarding campaignwriting :

1. Background.
When a campaign is written, it should always be kept in mind that a campaign is more than just a set of skirmish missions. Especially when lacking patience, beginners tend to make it a "suddenly a BIG war with thousands of worlds involved ( grand scale !!!! ) has broken out of pure boredom!!" campaign.
Although "out of pure bordedom" is replaced with "out of the somehow motivated intention to cause some interstellar trouble", meaning that there simply IS a bad enemy that has to be shot.
Of course, this is simply boring, and the player is not at all involved in the plot. To compensate for the lack of atmosphere, people try to increase "intensity" of their missions, resulting in what a fred tutorial called the "BATTLE OF ENDOR" effect. Simply a mass of ships that are only there to shoot and to be shot in pieces, with no clear motivation, except some diffuse "mankind's fate depends on it" explanations.
A campaign starts with the background, the overall situation ( social, political, economical.... ) and its inclined interdependencies. That means... the key to a good story is not only WHO, HOW and WHEN, but also WHY.


2. Thoughts on a possible telepath War campaign.
- A conflict develops out of the simple fact that Teeps and Normals both want to control the other side and prevent being controlled themselves.
- Normals outnumber Teeps 1000:1
This means that Normals would like to have clear frontlines and a transparent overall-situation, while teeps will want to stay hidden and unrecognised.
That means that, when the conflict intensifies, Normals will try to identify teeps around, perhaps using the drug DUST, hiring alien mercenaries, for example centauri telepaths, trying to set up a list of registered telepaths that is kept as updated and as widespread as possible.... and so on.
Teeps would travel away from the placed they have livbed before and where they are known for what they are. Nearly every telepath is known as telepath to some Normals, so they would have to try to form communities on their own to cover each other.
- If fighting and violent action breaks out, this would happen ob behalf of the Normals. Teeps don't need an open conflict to achieve their goals, but for the normals it might be their only chance to deal with the telepath problem. At the beginning of such a conflict, lots of teeps would surly be arrested and taken somewhere in detention ( murdering them would influence public opinion too severly ), since most teeps simply aren't as clever and elusive as BESTER. A small amount of teeps would be able to escape and to stay hidden, preparing to "strike bacK" somehow, by influencing and infiltrating high ranking officials, politicians and businessmen.
With the time being, the Teeps won't have the means to score decisive victories against the odds, and the Normals won't have the means to track down the elite core of the PSICORPS remnants.
As the society will grow weary of the conflict, the Normals will try to arrange themselves with the teeps in detention, and to "settle the conflict". Perhaps a number of goodwill acts, like freeing them, granting them new ways to be integarted into the society, forming up a new telepath organization at ease with the normals.
The remnants of the PsiCorps wouldn't dare to stand up against this new organization, for this would finally take away the last of their justification. They become rogues, the legacy of the telepath war, and will carry on somehow. Perhaps settling somewhere with a new identity, become mercs amoung other races as well or doing something else.

3. Thoughts about possible campaigns regarding teep war :
PSI CORPS :
High ranking teeps could want to find a nice and comfortable hideout somewhere in space, where they would be safe and sound. A colony, a small space station... whatever. From there they could organize their retaliation, or simply enjoy luxury while in exile, and hiding from EA authorities.
A campaign could feature the carreer of a blackomega pilot who helps scouting a good place for a hideout, oversees raw material shipments for construction, intercepts craft that jeopardize secrecy of the hideout, watch over PSICORPS personell transfer there and battles third parties interfering.
EA :
An EA campaign could be a logic conclusion, dealing with FINDING and DESTROYING the PSICORPS hideout.

4. Capital ships
At first, we have to explain HOW Psicorps could have obtained capital ships. I noticed the best explanation I came up with was already mentioned in another topic : An illegal arms deal with Clark.
In the EACW campaign, there is a secret shipyard at URANUS, where the Omega-X destroyers were built in a hurry as byproducts of the WARLOCK development. Since telepaths can interfere with SHADOW technology, it would be logical they have helped in applying shadow-armor to Omega frames, in exchange for one or two of these new destroyers. Like that, the PSICORPS could have one or a few fully functioning OMEGA-X destroyers at service, still unknown to any other EA officials.
WHY ?
The why question is always important. What would they need those ship(s) for, since they generally try to avoid open combat and prefer other ways of conflict where they have ALL advantages on their sides. It's a good thing to be able to read another persons mind !
For security reasons. Those ships are meant to ensure the deep space PSICORPS hideout can remain a secret. A ship that accidentally steps by and finds them would blow their cover, and a big EA taskforce would step by in a matter of hours. So, they need something to ensure that NOTHING survives that could blow their cover. And to keep a space installation a secret, you need a warship that can shoot down any trespassers.

5. possible additional plot stuff and crossovers.
- Lyta Alexander may be flown in by EA and Edgars industries to help interrogating captured PSICORPS personell to track down their base.
- Another teep merc of centauri origin may recognize Lyta as the person who broke into HIS mind when he did a job on Babylon 5 ( "Passing through Gethsemane") and changes allegiance to get his revenge.
- You hear of the dead blackomegas killed by Lt.Cmdr Dan Hale at end of civil war. ( EACW campaign )
- A Raider leader is involved in DUST dealings, Eugene Dillenger. ( EACW campaign )
- End of PsiCorps campaign and beginning of EA teep war campaign can cross over in time, you may somehow meet your alter ego. :)
- The campaigns should not only tell the story of the fighting against the corps, but also of the telepaths and their struggle to find a place in the human society as well...
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: stargate2008 on April 17, 2007, 01:42:51 pm
I think its a great idea to have an official Campaign team and I think that it will help to make the missions more enjoyable if we had a group of people working together as a team.

If its okay with you all, I would like to be the first to volunteer
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Mungrel on April 17, 2007, 10:01:20 pm
4. Capital ships
Since telepaths can interfere with SHADOW technology, it would be logical they have helped in applying shadow-armor to Omega frames, in exchange for one or two of these new destroyers.

I don't think that they would had anything to do with the shadow tech on the omega's. Clark wouldn't have put 'all his eggs in one basket', although they may have known about about it. An omegax would attract too much attention as well. There would always be the possibility of it being seen, then the whole galaxy would be after it. Having the omegax destroying every ship the comes across its path would attract too much attention as well.

I really think the PSI Command ship suits the corps better. There is plenty of scope for missions (hyperspace especially) using autopilot (maybe?) to simulate mind control, etc. I would like to see the player as a teep. Would give you a more interesting story line other than 'we are trying to find them' style of campaign where you already know what will happen.

Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: stargate2008 on April 18, 2007, 07:59:32 am
Hey IP,

Does this mean that their will be no more offical campaigns created by you and that BHX will not be released?

ALso, is 3.4 the last one? What i mean is that will there not be a 3.5 or a 4.0?
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: IPAndrews on April 18, 2007, 08:58:42 am
I may continue to work on unofficial missions and campaigns. I will not be involved in TBP 3.5 and I don't know anyone who will be. Also TBP 3.4 may suddenly and without warning morph into TBP 1.0 at the last minute.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: stargate2008 on April 18, 2007, 11:31:20 am
WHat about BHX?
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: RazersEdge on June 18, 2007, 02:25:21 pm
I'd be happy to work as a writer or voice actor, just tell me what I'm working on specifically and I'd be happy to do it.

One thing I think might be cool is integrating higher level telepath's ability to track targets in hyperspace. Remember how Bester helped track down the shadow transport ship full of rogue telepaths that were going to be used as CPUs in shadow ships? That was near the start of season 3 I think
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: terran_emperor on June 29, 2007, 11:13:40 am
All good ideas. I like those campaigns already.

I have trouble initiating mine though. As i have said before, i need Black omega Reskins of the EA ships. Not the civilian ships, but the military cruisers, Dreadnought, Destroyers and Corvettes. I would really appriciate if someone could do the skins for me. See my thread about this to see which ships id like done
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Trivial Psychic on June 29, 2007, 09:25:24 pm
Howdy:

I'm barely an active community member at the moment, let alone working on anything TBP, but I had assembled the beginning of a storyline that would cover some the events of Crusade and some time afterwards.  The main plot deals with the Drakh, but it also involves a rogue group of Minbari.  Other plot lines include the telepaths, and the constant duel between Bester and Garibaldi, (though I haven't written in that part yet), the origins of the Black Ops ship that destroyed the Ceberus and a plot within Earth Gov.  I also plan for a few appearances by Lennier, who is still in self-imposed exile but managing to keep busy saving the world.  I got to a certain point in the storyline but I just couldn't move beyond it, so I left it hoping to get some inspiration later.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: maje on August 03, 2007, 03:02:14 pm
After having read this thread, I seriously think that anything that's going to be an official Babylon 5 campaign, should involve the Babylon 5 station itself during the time of the series.  Everything else kind of feels like a spinoff.  I am kind of surprised though that people tend to stay away from using a story set during the Shadow War.  As the big bad war to end all wars, it seems largely avoided in favor of other, possibly smaller conflicts.

Anyways I did have several ideas, one being a pilot aboard the EAS Lewis & Clark (my own Explorer vessel) during about the time of the Drakh plague where essentially you would be put in a similar role as that as the ISA Excaliber.  Also a few other parts mentioned in the unfilmed Crusade scripts may be referenced (Psi Corps, Shadow Hybrid, etc.).

The other campaign idea (and this may be constricted into episodic sets due to time length approximately covering Seasons 4 and 5 of the Babylon 5 series regular), was to put the player in the Centauri military during the final stages of the Shadow War up until a few months (or weeks) after the ISA-Centauri War (again, this would have to be split up for obvious reasons).
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 03, 2007, 03:10:57 pm
:welcomegreen:

Welcome, maje. Hope you enjoy your stay.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 04, 2007, 02:33:10 am
After having read this thread, I seriously think that anything that's going to be an official Babylon 5 campaign, should involve the Babylon 5 station itself during the time of the series.  Everything else kind of feels like a spinoff.  I am kind of surprised though that people tend to stay away from using a story set during the Shadow War.  As the big bad war to end all wars, it seems largely avoided in favor of other, possibly smaller conflicts.

There had been a few attempts to do the very same... and there had been one campaign that dealt with Season 1 (by Madaboutgames) for 3.2 but it disappeared in the mists again...
also the problem with a campaign following the series has the problem that you are tempted to march from one BoE to the other in Seasons 3 &4

Anyways I did have several ideas, one being a pilot aboard the EAS Lewis & Clark (my own Explorer vessel) during about the time of the Drakh plague where essentially you would be put in a similar role as that as the ISA Excaliber.  Also a few other parts mentioned in the unfilmed Crusade scripts may be referenced (Psi Corps, Shadow Hybrid, etc.).

*cough*
got a similar story on the high range -- although it is the EAS Mecurio (an intelligence destroyer with the first EA build gravity drive) being send to former Vorlon empire to look for the cure
it involves hostilities with the PSI Corps, the Vorlons and the Outsiders from Thridspace

The other campaign idea (and this may be constricted into episodic sets due to time length approximately covering Seasons 4 and 5 of the Babylon 5 series regular), was to put the player in the Centauri military during the final stages of the Shadow War up until a few months (or weeks) after the ISA-Centauri War (again, this would have to be split up for obvious reasons).

last part would be "Drums of War 1-3" just on the other side huh?
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: IPAndrews on August 04, 2007, 04:48:21 am
Maybe it's worth starting a thread for people without mission designing skill to share their campaign ideas with the people who could realise them?
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: maje on August 04, 2007, 06:55:04 pm
last part would be "Drums of War 1-3" just on the other side huh?

Very similar, but I haven't decided if I want to really unveil the Drakh presense on Centauri Prime seeing how the only Centauri that knows about it that's not a Drakh slave is Vir *and the Technomages* and he doesn't find out until around 2266 or so, right before A Call to Arms takes place.

If anything, I might have something alluded to something being peculiar enough to warrant suspicion.  Besides, the only people that found out about the Drakh presense and presented it as public knowledge don't do it until 2278!  Everyone else wound up dead.  (So asides from destroying the Narn ship and her fighter complement, how do you plan on explaining that little continuity conflict for Drums of War 3?)  :p

Btw, The Black Hand is awesome.  Can't wait for Episode 2.  :nod:
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 05, 2007, 04:21:40 am
If anything, I might have something alluded to something being peculiar enough to warrant suspicion.  Besides, the only people that found out about the Drakh presense and presented it as public knowledge don't do it until 2278!  Everyone else wound up dead.  (So asides from destroying the Narn ship and her fighter complement, how do you plan on explaining that little continuity conflict for Drums of War 3?)

the Minbari know about the Drakh since before the Centauri started the war agaist the ISA ("Lines of Communication" was the epsidode, I belive)
and about the Narn in "Drums of War"... you never wondered why a Bin'Tak and 3 G'Quan suddenly appeared without the ship being officially send to Quadrant 34 knowing? -- well think about it

Btw, The Black Hand is awesome.  Can't wait for Episode 2.  :nod:

thanks for the flowers ... Episode 2 takes its time 'cause I need to find a way to get Locke and his mates out of the woods...
but I guess I found a way but that altered the entire planed flow of episodes... --
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: maje on August 05, 2007, 02:53:12 pm
Oh, my bad.  What I was referring to was that it wasn't common knowledge that the Drakh had been on Centauri Prime until around 2278.  The ISA was litterally left clueless.  The Drakh themselves were never really active in a straightforward military capacity until the huge assault on Earth during the ISA's 5th anniversary.  Before that, it was just some minor raids on merchant vessels in the Minbari Protectorate.  Unless it's been confirmed that the Drakh were active in other sectors it would have to be away from Centauri Prime to not arouse suspsicion as to their  whereabouts, and most likely would be in the years 2263-2266, because we never hear about them among the ISA.

Anyways it's fun speculation.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: karajorma on August 10, 2007, 04:34:26 pm
Maybe it's worth starting a thread for people without mission designing skill to share their campaign ideas with the people who could realise them?

Do it.

Get them to post ideas for multiplayer missions too. As it's basically a lack of ideas for anything interesting that has stopped me from FREDding something myself.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Vidmaster on August 27, 2007, 01:22:37 pm
Just an annotation: Dont we have a "official" campaign already ? Raider Wars is completed, cool, fully voice-acted and included in 3.4 . Yeah, I know there are too few campaigns for TBP (and I am currently working to add one to that small number) and additional campaigns would be cool. But again: Isn't RW THE campaign for TBP ?

Maybe we could also concentrate on voice act great ones like TBH ?
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: 0rph3u5 on August 28, 2007, 04:41:06 am
Maybe we could also concentrate on voice act great ones like TBH ?

I'll spam everyone to death who even thinks of VAing TBP Eps. 1 before I'm done with FREDing the rest!
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: karajorma on August 28, 2007, 07:14:47 am
Just an annotation: Dont we have a "official" campaign already ? Raider Wars is completed, cool, fully voice-acted and included in 3.4 . Yeah, I know there are too few campaigns for TBP (and I am currently working to add one to that small number) and additional campaigns would be cool. But again: Isn't RW THE campaign for TBP ?

Raider Wars was meant to be a side project to the bigger official campaign according to what IP Andrews has said earlier. IIRC the team have the plot for a more epic Shadow War/EA civil war campaign but lacked the manpower to get it finished so Raider Wars got bumped up from side project to flagship campaign. A role it was never intended for.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: Vidmaster on August 28, 2007, 08:29:57 am
->Kara: I know but it fits that role quite well.

->Oprh: Well then,  GET TO WORK !  :nod: :nod: :nod: We want more !

Earth Mimbari Wars is, as far as I know, dead. What is with Babylonian History ? Also dead ?
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: IPAndrews on August 28, 2007, 04:53:20 pm
Earth Mimbari Wars is, as far as I know, dead. What is with Babylonian History ? Also dead ?

The 3.6.9 version of the game engine gave me problems. Things that used to work, stopped working, and other things started crashing. It was looking like it might be difficult to "debug". I put that in quotes because I dont' really see working around game engine issues as debugging, but I couldn't come up with a better term. I may get around it looking at it again soon. A more bug free game engine would help motivate me.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: karajorma on August 30, 2007, 10:25:57 am
You've got to start putting those bugs in Mantis. Quite often I'll load up Mantis and see if anything critical has cropped up.

I never remember complaints from the forums when I'm doing that so I end up fixing minor things rather than the really big ones people seem to want fixed  (TvT not being able display directives correctly if you had more that 5 was the last thing I fixed).
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: IPAndrews on August 30, 2007, 01:10:23 pm
I don't have time, sorry. Don't think I'm complaining. The guy wanted to know what happened to BHX. Just answering the question honestly.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: karajorma on August 31, 2007, 05:06:42 am
Well it's not all up to you IP. There are lots of people who have run into these bugs and yet they still aren't in Mantis.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: IPAndrews on August 31, 2007, 06:26:43 am
I really don't know what I'd put in Mantis in most cases. You've seen the BHX code. If I put in a report "BHX crashes" I'm going to get the response "I'm not ****ing surprised did you ever think it would work?"  :D. Isolating problems to anything more specific would be an undertaking in itself in the case of something as cumbersome as that campaign.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: karajorma on August 31, 2007, 09:53:48 am
True. You do seem to be running into problems caused by how much larger TBP is than virtually everything else. That problem with the  Vorlon ships for instance was caused by the game mistakenly assigning an ai_behaviour type (a vestigial field that is never used for anything) with the same index as the ai_class for each ship. For almost everything else that worked but with TBP since you had so many ai classes you were assigning an invalid index for an array and the game was therefore writing nonsense to the mission file as soon as you tried to use it.

Something tells me your problems with BHX are similar issues.
Title: Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Post by: 0rph3u5 on September 22, 2007, 07:41:28 am
Dropping two mini-campaign ideas of mine - free for the taking:

1st - a Narn campaign set around 2259 - post Centauri Invasion of Narn
WALK IN BETWEEN THE SHADOWS
Atmosphere Notes: The Centauri have invaded Narn and those who survived the Centauri onslaugh have to seek shelter at the edges of known space. There the desperate survivors ralley their forces and prepare themselves to retake Narn one day.
Plot Summary:
Spoiler:
Amongst the surviving ships the Narn destroyer S'Van (a G'Quan - the same as in DoW 3) and the T'Loth cruiser T'Vosh are the only military vessels. While the T'Vosh stays behind the S'Van searches the nearby systems to search for hideout where repairs can be made and the forces be gathered.
But at the edges of known space there are dangers beyond imagination and the Narn awaken one of these - a planet full of ancient mashinery (similar to Epsilon III) in alliance with the Shadows...
Missions:
Spoiler:
1 - EXILED FROM PARADISE
As one of the last military outposts of the Narn falls into the hands of the Centauri the S'Van and the T'Vosh cover the retreat of the evacuees and than jump via jumpgate/jumpdrives to hyperspace to escape the centauri.
2 - UNCHARTED TERRITORY (atmosphere mission - no fighting just talk)
The Narn have escaped to the edges of the galaxy (hence no planets and just a 0.1 sun) and prepare to go into hiding but they have no place to go to - the S'Van is dispatched to find a suitable place in this uncharted territory
3 - NOT SEARCHING HOME...
The S'Van scouts one system, and the learn that the Centauri are following them. S'Van destroyes Centauri forces to distract the enemy and moves on. (Centauri force should be quite small - couple of Vorchans)
4 - ... BUT A PLACE TO STAY (atmosphere mission, no fighting just talk)
In another system the S'Van finds a perfect planet to stay and to hide - fly around and scan navbouys (to simulate scanning sections of space or the planet)
5 - DEN OF EVIL (stealth mission?)
As the Narn prepare to set up a camp one of the Narn groups on the planet has tigger an ancient signal (and learn about the nature of the planet - but that's not reveal until mission 7) and unknown (shadow) vessels appear at the edge of the planets rings (asteroid fields). Player has to remain hidden from the shadows and has to "count" their ships. (Several battlecarps and fighterwings (maybe some non-cannons?) should make up the shadow forces)
6 - LIGHT AND SHADOW
The Shadows discovered the Narn and are moving in the engage the ships in the orbit (by that time the Narn have left the planet again) - but dispite best efforts the shadows cannot be stopped forever - mission ends with a Red Alert as some new informations comes in. (Shadow attack force should be fighters and maybe some of the small non-cannon craft [use them with caution though] - NO BATTLECRABS, although spotted in the last mission)
7 - ENLIGHTMENT
During the RA briefing the player is briefed on the nature of the planet and that the battlecrabs are all heading for the planet's surface - the Narn belive that they could destroy the mashinary on the planet with a few well placed shots on targets on the surface fired by the S'Van.
Player wings have to cover the S'Van as the destroyer moves into position and fires its beams at a dummy. Once the target is destroyed (after the S'Van has fired 3 or 4 times [event bound firing of that beams]) the Shadows fade away as their is nothing for them to do anymore and the Narn jump away too.

2nd - an EA-campaign set post EMW
CLEANING OUT
Atmosphere Notes: The Earth Alliance is just recovering from the war with the Minbari - entire systems have been wasted during the struggle and few Earth Force ships remain to secure peace. Althoug still shocked by the sudden "victory" Earth Force Crews have to pick up their usual duties again...
Plot Summary:
Spoiler:
The EAS Artemis - a remaing Hyperion - is send out to help securing the remains of the furious battles across EA space - at Tau Ceti they find the debris field of one confrontation hand-picked of the valuable parts (high tech weapons - bough from the Narn) by scavangers. With new orders the Atlas moves on to find those who stole from the debris field.
The thiefs turn out to be a band made up by merchenaries, traitors and raiders... and the Artemis begins to hunt them down one by one...
Missions:
Spoiler:
1 - GRAVEYARD (atmosphere mission)
The Artemis (and accompanying freighters?) arrives at the Tau Ceti debris site and launches shuttles and bots to find salvageable parts - they learn the debris field has been picked clean
2 - HONEST BUISNESSMEN
Heaving learned that all salvageable debris has been stolen the Artemis' seeks out the head of a criminel cartel (on his personal liner) who had risen during the EMW but had been left untouched 'cause of the war.
After some "aggressive dimplonacy" (with pulse guns and such :)) he gives in that he knows who got the parts and trades in that knowledge against him being arrested.
(hostile force should be a liner and some fighters - like tigers and zephyrs)
3 - THOU SHALL NOT STEAL!
The first adress the Artemis is heading is a group of raiders ("just a band of thugs with big guns") -- the raiders refuse to surrender and their ship has to be disabled and boarded to get the parts...
("just a band of thugs with big guns" - zephyrs and raider carrier)
4 - STARFURY CHASE
After the raiders have been eliminated the mercs fear for their hides and try to hide in a local asteroid field but they are found and eliminated... their part of the prey is siezed by the Artemis as well.
(a couple of fighter wings - mixed between zephyrs, tigers, Auroras Mk1 [RARE!!!] and some rare alien fighters - and freighter somewhere for their part of the salvage)
5 - HUNTING THE HUNTERS
Eliminating the raiders and the mercs drives the traitors out of hiding - although they never wanted to fight the minbari these are very willing to take on the Artemis as they have their own Hyperion (better guns??).
They don't surrender until their cruiser goes down; and shortly before that they jettison some life pods. Mission ends after they surrendered.
(a Hyperion and Aurora Mk 1s should make up the hostile force)