Author Topic: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team  (Read 11365 times)

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Offline Skullar

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Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Something came to my attention when I read over the WCS site and heard TOLWYN expressing his joy on the number of willing helpers that were attracted by the PROLOGUE release.

Development and public interest in TBP faded over the years, and I had the impression the project was nothing but a "lets get ALL ship models together" project for quite some time. I.P.Andrews spiced the community up with RAIDER WARS, Madaboutgames made some attempts to provide something to play with, but my personal opinion is that TBP lacks a ( number of ) SOLID and CONSISTENT campaign(s) that somehow underline we do not only port SHIPS into FS2, but only our PLOTS.

Wing Commander Saga and Galactica showed it : Decisive milestones in the development push the project and attract support.
I was thinking to push to something MAJOR.

When the TBP team split up into the CORE team and the CAMPAIGN team some time ago, the CORE team survived and was carried on to what it is now, while the fredders and mission designers ended up FUBAR. There has not been any SERIOUS mission and campaign development in a team.

How would you like to form up a new "official" campaign team ? To get a little support for each others work ?
Not only the happenings from the show, we have also 2 campaigns with own plots that give a frame where additional work could fit in.

Somepeople asked about doing a campaign.

I have the following in mind : We should combine our efforts, decide on a number of ideas to become "official" and to be pushed into release form. Aside RAIDER WARS, TBP has been a mesh collection without missions for too long in my opinion.

So, how about a set of campaigns, with own plots, offering to play most of the canon races, campaigns that have crossovers, allowing you to play a mission from another point of view. Like in AVP2, where you met your alter ego as marine, alien or predator. Or as in HALF LIFE, opposing forces, where you saw yourself ( as gordon freeman ) jump into the dimensional distortion rift to XEN.

So far, in addition to the canon plot from the show, we have 2 campaign plots that could blend in and refered to in YOUR campaigns.
RAIDER WARS and THE EARTH ALLIANCE CIVIL WAR.

I will report on the second one in detail, at first I would like to ask you.... are you interested in letting your campaign blend in the "official TBP contents", and to work on ALL "official" campaigns as a team member, not only on YOUR campaign ?

I say an ultimate goal would be a set of "official TBP campaigns" , all with voiceacting, cutscenes and crossovers with each other.
Who would be willing to create and join something like an "OFFICIAL TBP CAMPAIGN TEAM, not dealing with MINE, YOUR, HIS or THEIR campaigns, only with OURS ? We could start with storyboard brainstorming on ALL campaigns in a thread, IF you have access to campaign internal forum...

Since there ARE people around to have stuff in development, or wanting to create an own campaign, no bad idea.
I.P.Andrews could finally share his special TBP-related FRED knowledge with the team members, so it wouldn't die out when he leaves.

Example :

A possible set could be :
- Raider Wars ( latest build, already completed by I.P.Andrews )
- Earth Alliance Civil War ( follows path of a pilot on EAS Alexander till end of shadow war, then on Babylon 5 till NO SURRENDER, NO RETREAT, than again on Alexander ) Lt.Cmdr. Dan Hale was hinted at in RAIDER WARS epilogue.
- Psi Corps campaign initiated by TERRAN EMPEROR ( plot unknown )
- A NARN campaign for example of a G'Tok pilot.... --> crossover missions with Centauri and Civil War campaigns
- A CENTAURI campaign....  ---> crossover missions with NARN campaign
- A RANGER campaign, either during shadow war oder situated later.
- A League campaign
- A Minbari campaign , lots of possibilities WHEN and against WHOM.

Thats quite ambitionate, isnt it ?

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
I think it's a little bit much to have multiple campaigns for one release...just one solid, voice-acted, well written and executed campaign should be enough, with the user-made campaigns added as "bonus" material. Too much choice adds confusion and spreads the focus of the game around too much - just one tight and well done campaign would do the trick.

The reason I never really took interest in TBP was because of just this - there was no way I could just download the game, install it and play - I had to either make my own missions or go find other people's. If there was a "real" TBP campaign that was on the same quality level as WCS or BtRL's demo campaigns, then I think you'd definitely attract a LOT more people.

 

Offline IPAndrews

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
I think Unknown Target is right in detail. I think Skullar is right in spirit.

With the 3.4 betas the TBP core is done. It will not be developed further. There is no need.

We have given you all the tools to tell fantastic stories in the Babylon 5 universe. All it takes is a small amount of time and imagination.

On behalf of the team that has spent so much time bringing you the TBP game engine I ask whoever might be reading this now to spread the world that the "Babylon 5 space combat game construction kit" exists and is here and is waiting to be used... and to use it.

Just remember that writing campaigns is easier if you share the work. So find out who is working on campaigns. Who wants to. Share ideas. Keep your aims small and achievable. 10 mission campaigns tops. Divide up the work. Work together.  That way your dream campaigns will make it on the the screens.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 04:36:17 am by IPAndrews »
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Offline Skullar

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
"When shall we meet again? In Thunder, lightning or in rain ?
When the battle's lost or won, when the hurlyburly's done ?"

Right in spirit... right in detail.... I.P., you are just "too" reasonable for this job. :)

Who cares if it can be done or not, as long I have a good time working on it ?
If I had been thinking like you, I would have never made the EACW script ! lol

My head is full with ideas, but at first I will start to FRED myself...




 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
My Idea for A Psi-corps campaign would be the Telepath war, either as a EA pilot (possibly a latent Teep) or as a Psi-corp pilot. Who goes under cover in Ea at some point during the campaign. I'll post more, when I've had a chance to develop the story a bit more
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TRUE SHIVAN

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Offline IPAndrews

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Maybe brainstorm with Skullar? He's an experienced writer.
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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
I do have ideas. I just can't expand on them at the moment. I have exams soon. They're my main priority now. After they are out of the way, I'll be able to post the Ideas once I've done them. I may do both  my suggestions, either as seperate campaign the same style as Jedi Starfighter. In that, you played some missions as one character, and others as the other.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 11:00:33 am by terran_emperor »
e = m csarged - Relativity according to Sarge [Red vs Blue]

TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 

Offline Skullar

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
I had a brainstorming, but I forgot my USB-stick at home, and cannot post what I came up with. I'll copy-paste it tomorrow ( probably ).

I'll just post the basic things I came up with :


General thoughts regarding campaignwriting :

1. Background.
When a campaign is written, it should always be kept in mind that a campaign is more than just a set of skirmish missions. Especially when lacking patience, beginners tend to make it a "suddenly a BIG war with thousands of worlds involved ( grand scale !!!! ) has broken out of pure boredom!!" campaign.
Although "out of pure bordedom" is replaced with "out of the somehow motivated intention to cause some interstellar trouble", meaning that there simply IS a bad enemy that has to be shot.
Of course, this is simply boring, and the player is not at all involved in the plot. To compensate for the lack of atmosphere, people try to increase "intensity" of their missions, resulting in what a fred tutorial called the "BATTLE OF ENDOR" effect. Simply a mass of ships that are only there to shoot and to be shot in pieces, with no clear motivation, except some diffuse "mankind's fate depends on it" explanations.
A campaign starts with the background, the overall situation ( social, political, economical.... ) and its inclined interdependencies. That means... the key to a good story is not only WHO, HOW and WHEN, but also WHY.


2. Thoughts on a possible telepath War campaign.
- A conflict develops out of the simple fact that Teeps and Normals both want to control the other side and prevent being controlled themselves.
- Normals outnumber Teeps 1000:1
This means that Normals would like to have clear frontlines and a transparent overall-situation, while teeps will want to stay hidden and unrecognised.
That means that, when the conflict intensifies, Normals will try to identify teeps around, perhaps using the drug DUST, hiring alien mercenaries, for example centauri telepaths, trying to set up a list of registered telepaths that is kept as updated and as widespread as possible.... and so on.
Teeps would travel away from the placed they have livbed before and where they are known for what they are. Nearly every telepath is known as telepath to some Normals, so they would have to try to form communities on their own to cover each other.
- If fighting and violent action breaks out, this would happen ob behalf of the Normals. Teeps don't need an open conflict to achieve their goals, but for the normals it might be their only chance to deal with the telepath problem. At the beginning of such a conflict, lots of teeps would surly be arrested and taken somewhere in detention ( murdering them would influence public opinion too severly ), since most teeps simply aren't as clever and elusive as BESTER. A small amount of teeps would be able to escape and to stay hidden, preparing to "strike bacK" somehow, by influencing and infiltrating high ranking officials, politicians and businessmen.
With the time being, the Teeps won't have the means to score decisive victories against the odds, and the Normals won't have the means to track down the elite core of the PSICORPS remnants.
As the society will grow weary of the conflict, the Normals will try to arrange themselves with the teeps in detention, and to "settle the conflict". Perhaps a number of goodwill acts, like freeing them, granting them new ways to be integarted into the society, forming up a new telepath organization at ease with the normals.
The remnants of the PsiCorps wouldn't dare to stand up against this new organization, for this would finally take away the last of their justification. They become rogues, the legacy of the telepath war, and will carry on somehow. Perhaps settling somewhere with a new identity, become mercs amoung other races as well or doing something else.

3. Thoughts about possible campaigns regarding teep war :
PSI CORPS :
High ranking teeps could want to find a nice and comfortable hideout somewhere in space, where they would be safe and sound. A colony, a small space station... whatever. From there they could organize their retaliation, or simply enjoy luxury while in exile, and hiding from EA authorities.
A campaign could feature the carreer of a blackomega pilot who helps scouting a good place for a hideout, oversees raw material shipments for construction, intercepts craft that jeopardize secrecy of the hideout, watch over PSICORPS personell transfer there and battles third parties interfering.
EA :
An EA campaign could be a logic conclusion, dealing with FINDING and DESTROYING the PSICORPS hideout.

4. Capital ships
At first, we have to explain HOW Psicorps could have obtained capital ships. I noticed the best explanation I came up with was already mentioned in another topic : An illegal arms deal with Clark.
In the EACW campaign, there is a secret shipyard at URANUS, where the Omega-X destroyers were built in a hurry as byproducts of the WARLOCK development. Since telepaths can interfere with SHADOW technology, it would be logical they have helped in applying shadow-armor to Omega frames, in exchange for one or two of these new destroyers. Like that, the PSICORPS could have one or a few fully functioning OMEGA-X destroyers at service, still unknown to any other EA officials.
WHY ?
The why question is always important. What would they need those ship(s) for, since they generally try to avoid open combat and prefer other ways of conflict where they have ALL advantages on their sides. It's a good thing to be able to read another persons mind !
For security reasons. Those ships are meant to ensure the deep space PSICORPS hideout can remain a secret. A ship that accidentally steps by and finds them would blow their cover, and a big EA taskforce would step by in a matter of hours. So, they need something to ensure that NOTHING survives that could blow their cover. And to keep a space installation a secret, you need a warship that can shoot down any trespassers.

5. possible additional plot stuff and crossovers.
- Lyta Alexander may be flown in by EA and Edgars industries to help interrogating captured PSICORPS personell to track down their base.
- Another teep merc of centauri origin may recognize Lyta as the person who broke into HIS mind when he did a job on Babylon 5 ( "Passing through Gethsemane") and changes allegiance to get his revenge.
- You hear of the dead blackomegas killed by Lt.Cmdr Dan Hale at end of civil war. ( EACW campaign )
- A Raider leader is involved in DUST dealings, Eugene Dillenger. ( EACW campaign )
- End of PsiCorps campaign and beginning of EA teep war campaign can cross over in time, you may somehow meet your alter ego. :)
- The campaigns should not only tell the story of the fighting against the corps, but also of the telepaths and their struggle to find a place in the human society as well...

 
Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
I think its a great idea to have an official Campaign team and I think that it will help to make the missions more enjoyable if we had a group of people working together as a team.

If its okay with you all, I would like to be the first to volunteer
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Offline Mungrel

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
4. Capital ships
Since telepaths can interfere with SHADOW technology, it would be logical they have helped in applying shadow-armor to Omega frames, in exchange for one or two of these new destroyers.

I don't think that they would had anything to do with the shadow tech on the omega's. Clark wouldn't have put 'all his eggs in one basket', although they may have known about about it. An omegax would attract too much attention as well. There would always be the possibility of it being seen, then the whole galaxy would be after it. Having the omegax destroying every ship the comes across its path would attract too much attention as well.

I really think the PSI Command ship suits the corps better. There is plenty of scope for missions (hyperspace especially) using autopilot (maybe?) to simulate mind control, etc. I would like to see the player as a teep. Would give you a more interesting story line other than 'we are trying to find them' style of campaign where you already know what will happen.


 
Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Hey IP,

Does this mean that their will be no more offical campaigns created by you and that BHX will not be released?

ALso, is 3.4 the last one? What i mean is that will there not be a 3.5 or a 4.0?
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Offline IPAndrews

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
I may continue to work on unofficial missions and campaigns. I will not be involved in TBP 3.5 and I don't know anyone who will be. Also TBP 3.4 may suddenly and without warning morph into TBP 1.0 at the last minute.
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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
WHat about BHX?
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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
I'd be happy to work as a writer or voice actor, just tell me what I'm working on specifically and I'd be happy to do it.

One thing I think might be cool is integrating higher level telepath's ability to track targets in hyperspace. Remember how Bester helped track down the shadow transport ship full of rogue telepaths that were going to be used as CPUs in shadow ships? That was near the start of season 3 I think

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
All good ideas. I like those campaigns already.

I have trouble initiating mine though. As i have said before, i need Black omega Reskins of the EA ships. Not the civilian ships, but the military cruisers, Dreadnought, Destroyers and Corvettes. I would really appriciate if someone could do the skins for me. See my thread about this to see which ships id like done
e = m csarged - Relativity according to Sarge [Red vs Blue]

TRUE SHIVAN

HLP's only Goro Naya (Great Leader) fan


"I really wasn't expecting this much losership"


"Only one thing is impossible for a Vorlon to understand: How to change the IRQ setting in any DOS computer."

HLP Brit

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Howdy:

I'm barely an active community member at the moment, let alone working on anything TBP, but I had assembled the beginning of a storyline that would cover some the events of Crusade and some time afterwards.  The main plot deals with the Drakh, but it also involves a rogue group of Minbari.  Other plot lines include the telepaths, and the constant duel between Bester and Garibaldi, (though I haven't written in that part yet), the origins of the Black Ops ship that destroyed the Ceberus and a plot within Earth Gov.  I also plan for a few appearances by Lennier, who is still in self-imposed exile but managing to keep busy saving the world.  I got to a certain point in the storyline but I just couldn't move beyond it, so I left it hoping to get some inspiration later.
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Offline maje

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
After having read this thread, I seriously think that anything that's going to be an official Babylon 5 campaign, should involve the Babylon 5 station itself during the time of the series.  Everything else kind of feels like a spinoff.  I am kind of surprised though that people tend to stay away from using a story set during the Shadow War.  As the big bad war to end all wars, it seems largely avoided in favor of other, possibly smaller conflicts.

Anyways I did have several ideas, one being a pilot aboard the EAS Lewis & Clark (my own Explorer vessel) during about the time of the Drakh plague where essentially you would be put in a similar role as that as the ISA Excaliber.  Also a few other parts mentioned in the unfilmed Crusade scripts may be referenced (Psi Corps, Shadow Hybrid, etc.).

The other campaign idea (and this may be constricted into episodic sets due to time length approximately covering Seasons 4 and 5 of the Babylon 5 series regular), was to put the player in the Centauri military during the final stages of the Shadow War up until a few months (or weeks) after the ISA-Centauri War (again, this would have to be split up for obvious reasons).
Deuternomy 22:11 explained:

Well there are many different speculations going on about this law about not mixing fibers and at least one explanation claims that it was a symbolic gesture designed to keep a pure sense of culture, people, and religion.  Seperation of crop  in the vinyard, mentioned in Dt. 22:9 and 22:10 seem to reaffirm this idea, though there may be other reasons as well.

And now, an excerpt from the Prayer of Mordecai, the Book of Esther Chapter C (New American Bible Official Catholic version).

Est C:5  You know all things.  You know, O Lord, that it was not out of insolence or pride or desire for fame that I acted thus in not bowing down to the proud Haman.  6  Gladly would I have kissed the soles of his feet for the salvation of Israel.  7  But I acted as I did so as not to place the honor of man above that of God.  I will not bow down to anyone but you, my Lord.  It is not out of pride that I am acting thus.

 

Offline Jeff Vader

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
:welcomegreen:

Welcome, maje. Hope you enjoy your stay.
23:40 < achillion > EveningTea: ass
23:40 < achillion > wait no
23:40 < achillion > evilbagel: ass
23:40 < EveningTea > ?
23:40 < achillion > 2-letter tab complete failure

14:08 < achillion > there's too much talk of butts and dongs in here
14:08 < achillion > the level of discourse has really plummeted
14:08 < achillion > Let's talk about politics instead
14:08 <@The_E > butts and dongs are part of #hard-light's brand now
14:08 <@The_E > well
14:08 <@The_E > EvilBagel's brand, at least

01:06 < T-Rog > welp
01:07 < T-Rog > I've got to take some very strong antibiotics
01:07 < achillion > penis infection?
01:08 < T-Rog > Chlamydia
01:08 < achillion > O.o
01:09 < achillion > well
01:09 < achillion > I guess that happens
01:09 < T-Rog > at least it's curable
01:09 < achillion > yeah
01:10 < T-Rog > I take it you weren't actually expecting it to be a penis infection
01:10 < achillion > I was not

14:04 < achillion > Sometimes the way to simplify is to just have a habit and not think about it too much
14:05 < achillion > until stuff explodes
14:05 < achillion > then you start thinking about it

22:16 < T-Rog > I don't know how my gf would feel about Jewish conspiracy porn

15:41 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
15:47 < EvilBagel> butt
15:51 < Achillion> yes
15:53 <-INFO > EveningTea [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]

18:53 < Achillion> Dicks are fun

21:41 < MatthTheGeek> you can't spell assassin without two asses

20:05 < sigtau> i'm mining titcoins from now on

00:31 < oldlaptop> Drunken antisocial educated freezing hicks with good Internet == Finland stereotype

11:46 <-INFO > Kobrar [[email protected]] has joined #hard-light
11:50 < achtung> Surely you've heard of DVDA
11:50 < achtung> Double Vaginal Double ANal
11:51 < Kobrar> ...
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
After having read this thread, I seriously think that anything that's going to be an official Babylon 5 campaign, should involve the Babylon 5 station itself during the time of the series.  Everything else kind of feels like a spinoff.  I am kind of surprised though that people tend to stay away from using a story set during the Shadow War.  As the big bad war to end all wars, it seems largely avoided in favor of other, possibly smaller conflicts.

There had been a few attempts to do the very same... and there had been one campaign that dealt with Season 1 (by Madaboutgames) for 3.2 but it disappeared in the mists again...
also the problem with a campaign following the series has the problem that you are tempted to march from one BoE to the other in Seasons 3 &4

Anyways I did have several ideas, one being a pilot aboard the EAS Lewis & Clark (my own Explorer vessel) during about the time of the Drakh plague where essentially you would be put in a similar role as that as the ISA Excaliber.  Also a few other parts mentioned in the unfilmed Crusade scripts may be referenced (Psi Corps, Shadow Hybrid, etc.).

*cough*
got a similar story on the high range -- although it is the EAS Mecurio (an intelligence destroyer with the first EA build gravity drive) being send to former Vorlon empire to look for the cure
it involves hostilities with the PSI Corps, the Vorlons and the Outsiders from Thridspace

The other campaign idea (and this may be constricted into episodic sets due to time length approximately covering Seasons 4 and 5 of the Babylon 5 series regular), was to put the player in the Centauri military during the final stages of the Shadow War up until a few months (or weeks) after the ISA-Centauri War (again, this would have to be split up for obvious reasons).

last part would be "Drums of War 1-3" just on the other side huh?
"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

==================

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"...because they are not Dragons."

  

Offline IPAndrews

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Re: Proposal : An "official" TBP campaign team
Maybe it's worth starting a thread for people without mission designing skill to share their campaign ideas with the people who could realise them?
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