Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Fate of the Galaxy => Topic started by: Tempest on August 04, 2007, 12:53:51 pm
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No prizes for guessing what this is.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/GreeblieHeaven-1.png)
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What is that ? :o :p
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Dunno. Is it a Mon Calamari cruiser? :confused:
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Hooooo boy, it's probably gonna have 100k+ polys when its done isn't it?
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I know.
Its an enlarged escape pod.
Excellent model too, this thing is going to blow me away once its done.
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I thought Executor-class super star destroyers had larger engines than that.
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No, they don't, but the thrust that spews out of them is considerable.
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What're you usin' for reference?
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The studio model. It's as accurate as it gets.
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Yup, between the pics of the studio model from a museum and ortho shots of a plastic model kit that was based off of it, he should be able to make it spot on (easter egg and all).
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You know there were only three (maybe four) SSDs made, right? :wtf:
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All the better. The fact that you'll likely never have more than one in a mission means Tempest can really knock himself out on this one without worrying much about polycounts :D
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I've worked on the top a bit.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/executor-3.png)
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Holy cow zomg that's roxorz
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If only it could have accurate collision detection without raping the CPU :P
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More tomorrow. As you can see, every region of the model now has detail, and the engines were enlarged.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/executor-5.png)
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Very :cool:
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now remember kids, on Return of the Jedi, when the A-wing crashed into the bridge of one of these and sent it on a collision course with the Death Star, this thing looked like an old flint arrowhead being driven into metallic ground. I wonder how many polies a Death Star (especially the DS2, all broken up with the innards exposed, plus the scaffolding on the exterior and such) will have?
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Hrm... is there a way to have more than 5 LODs? Or some way to get progressively more detail, the closer you get, but because of the enormous amounts of detail, to have many more levels than usual? Or won't it be necessary?
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Detail boxing can take care of some of that. But, detail boxing can eat up subobjects which we also need for turrets and the like.
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Without it's detail boxes, it's about 20k pollies, still at LOD0. LODing properly is one of my biggest concerns.
As for the number of polygons, we're still working on how we're going to do a proper BoE. As it stands, we're still trying to figure out how to install the required number of weapons onto this thing.
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Can we get some SCP coders in here & have a problem solving / brainstorming session?
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The key problem with this ship, as has been mentioned already, is the subobject limit. Like it or not, FS2 has a 110 odd subobject limit, and you're not going to be able to effectively turret a ship 17 odd kilometers long with the 90 - 100 turrets you'll have left once the detail boxes and destroyable subobjects are done. In the old SW mod, the plan was to use this ship as a plot device - you might see it, it might kill a few ships at a great distance, or it might be a part of the background of a mission, or in a shipyard or something, but it would never be deployed as a standard combat ship. It's unkillable (or at least it ought to be) and thus plays hell with non scripted mission parts, and makes turreting it unneccesary. My advice, then, is to get it modelled and mapped but not to bother turreting it at all. If we need it to kill something, I can sort that out in FRED, but trying to treat something like this as a standard combat vessel is a recipe for, well, if not outright failure, certainly falling far short of what should be expected for a ship like this.
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Before to choose this only option, why don't you asked to SCP coder to override the actual code to support more than 110 sub object ? I don't know the difficulties since I don't have the source code and well C++ isn't my langage of predilection :p
If it's just a value to modify, so it would be easy to have a ship with more than 110 subobject. If it's not the case and it's based on some mysterious parameter. :/
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It looks like the limit may already have been removed, but you're still going to be left with an impossibly high number of turrets to path, table and properly pof, to produce a combat ready ship with no real mission value.
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I tend to agree. I'd absolutely love to see this ship fully functional in-game, but simply for pure awe factor and not because it'd be of much use to a mission designer. Ships above a certain size, such as this and the Sath and Collie from FS2, are invariably little more than scenery or plot devices in most cases.
That said, I *can* think of a few cases where a fully armed version would actually be useful, so if you've got the time and inclination to take it all the way, then by all means... Just know in advance that much of the time it'll be a prop and not an actor. Though, without a doubt, a massively impressive and utterly astonishing prop.
Oh, and I guess another reason to do it might be to avoid the masses of whining Star Wars fans you'll have crawling up your alley once they download the game and realize this ship is not fully operational, expecting to be able to play the Battle of Endor and take out the bridge deflector shield, not realizing that it would take them a full 10 minutes at full thrust just to get from the tip of the wedge to their target due to the size of the ship :p
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Dr. Curtis Saxton (maintainer of the Star Wars Technical Commentaries) believes that the Rebel fleet knocked out the bridge deflector shields, and the communication dome blowing up occurred within a couple of seconds of the shield going down, thus explaining the chain of events. Because there's no way an A-wing's pea-shooters are going to scratch the Executor's shields.
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You know there were only three (maybe four) SSDs made, right? :wtf:
Do you have a source for this? The Empire could build a thousand SSDs if they wanted to. Hell, a Death Star is easily worth tens of thousands of SSDs.
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Dr. Curtis Saxton (maintainer of the Star Wars Technical Commentaries) believes that the Rebel fleet knocked out the bridge deflector shields, and the communication dome blowing up occurred within a couple of seconds of the shield going down, thus explaining the chain of events. Because there's no way an A-wing's pea-shooters are going to scratch the Executor's shields.
He apparently hasn't watched the movie, then. The dome is clearly destroyed before Piett's crew pipe up about the shield being downed. So weakened, certainly, and clearly to the point where a fighter could penetrate them which would be almost 0%, but not downed completely. And the domes do in fact mount the shield projectors for the nearby area (not in the domes, but mounted on top of them - They're the little spikes that protrude from the upper hemisphere), so if you blow up those, you take out the shielding permanently for that area of the ship, which is what happened in RotJ.
Speculation from someone with a nice title is all well and good, but as far as I'm concerned, what was shown in the movie is what happened, and supercedes any 3rd party speculation.
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You know there were only three (maybe four) SSDs made, right? :wtf:
Do you have a source for this? The Empire could build a thousand SSDs if they wanted to. Hell, a Death Star is easily worth tens of thousands of SSDs.
To the best of my knowledge, four were built:- Executor
- Lusankya
- Iron Fist
- Razor's Kiss
Post-Endor the Empire was severely crippled, and didn't necessarily have the infinite resources it's easy to think of them as having.
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Shade: Brand-X showed me this quote from the Visual Effects guy who did ROTJ.
"We're also still working on the sequence where Mad Max crashes his A-wing into Vader's ship and causes the star destroyer to lose control and crash into the Deathstar. The penetration shot with the mushroom-cloud explosion we've had for some time, and we've got the shot where the ship's been hit and is starting to heel over. A very large explosion is coming out of the bridge area and it's causing several others to go as well; and one of the big radar domes up on top has been blown away, and that's spewing flames."
(Emphasis mine)
SeanP: Which is exactly why the Empire built the Eclipse Star Destroyer. :p
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None of that contradicts what I just posted, though. I did agree that the actual domes are not shield projectors, it's just that there are shield projectors mounted on top of them. I didn't know Mel Gibson was flying the fighter that rammed the bridge, though :p
Basically the on-screen sequence goes like this: Ackbar orders all ships to concentrate fire on the Executor. A little later after it has taken a lot of pounding, an A-Wing strafes the left sensor dome (which also happens to have the local shield projectors mounted on it. It's in some tech manual or something, I can't actually remember where it's from) and manages to blow it up. A different A-Wing (piloted by Braveheart) then rams the bridge, causing much badness for the imperials. Crowd in cinema cheers :)
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That could explain it, but I also heard that the dome blowing up was supposed to show the effect of the shields going down.
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Maybe it was and it's just the editor that screwed up and reversed the sequences. Wouldn't be the first time a writer's vision and what an editor produced didn't quite fit with eachother. If that's the case, then that would certainly invalidate events as shown in the film as an editor can't overrule Lucas on anything starwars (Except for ep. 1-3, everyone can overrule Lucas on those... I refuse to accept any and all retcons made by those three movies). For now though, I'm going to be stubborn and stick by my childhood memories :p
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There's a good reason we're trying our best to stay within the Original Trilogy and Pre-Vong EU. ;)
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Those are definitely the best parts, and the only ones worth bothering with :)
[Edit] Except possibly some of the precursors to the modern Star Destroyers as seen in Ep. 3. The prequel stories may be far below par, but the capital ship designs aren't bad... one of the few things I liked about the prequels. In fact, the very start of Ep. 3 where you're skimming the hull and then drop down into a massive battle is very original trilogy-ish. Too bad it goes to hell as soon as they zoom in on the pilots :blah: That, Yoda kicking ass and the fight at the end of Ep. 1 is more or less the whole list though.
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About the Vong, did you have any ships models for this race ? Because, well, the novel are great but I don't have any clue to what they do like and especially there ships. I know they are organics but that 's all.
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sorry, there will be no vong in the SWC.
our accepted SW canon starts just before ANH and ends a few years after Vision of the Future and Survivors Quest.
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While the prequels certainly aren't as great as the originals, they've still got a few kickass ships. I'd like to see a few prequel ships get in eventually, like having the rebels be able to use an N1, and have their recursant or whatever CIS destroyer. The Venator should also make it to SWC eventually, too, as we can use it as an older Star Destroyer. That definatley isn't our focus right now, though.
I also agree that we shouldn't go much farther past 20 ABY, as there's more than enough GCW material we can use without having to touch the Vong.
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sorry, there will be no vong in the SWC.
our accepted SW canon starts just before ANH and ends a few years after Vision of the Future and Survivors Quest.
I know, I know. Sorry if my post was a little confuse. When I spoke about Vong Model, it's on general not specially for the SWC. I saw some models in Warlords, but are they truly the right models or not since we didn't have a Star Wars games/movies/series/or whatever you like in its era.
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I'm going to spend more time on the bridge section, then work on the bottom.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/excessivedetail-1.png)
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I know, I know. Sorry if my post was a little confuse. When I spoke about Vong Model, it's on general not specially for the SWC. I saw some models in Warlords, but are they truly the right models or not since we didn't have a Star Wars games/movies/series/or whatever you like in its era.
Funny, I was just about to refer you to Warlords :)
For everyone else who has been living under a rock however: SW Warlords for Homeword 2! (http://mods.moddb.com/3430/star-wars-warlords/)
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Chris, you made a bunch of critical errors, first, engines are two small, second the super structure on top isnt in a huge pit (only the bottom super structure is) and thirdly the scaling of the entire thing is off, the bridge is incredably smaller in comparison to the entire ship and also farther back on the ship. The super structures detail is much smaller then what you have shown in the latest picture, but i can understand why that would be hard for you to fix because of poly limits. I showed you a few pictures on MSN of how it SHOULD look in your final model.
For those of you curious on what I was showing Chris, heres one of the links I sent him :
http://www.starwars-holonet.com/holonet/dictionnaire/photos/ship_sds_4.jpg
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You know there were only three (maybe four) SSDs made, right? :wtf:
Do you have a source for this? The Empire could build a thousand SSDs if they wanted to. Hell, a Death Star is easily worth tens of thousands of SSDs.
First, check out http://www.starwars.wikia.com and search "Super Star Destroyer."
Second, sure the Empire COULD have built thousands of SSDs if it had lasted as long as the Old Republic, but the Empire had only existed for about twenty years (20) by the time they finally developed the Lusankya/Executor.
Third, SSDs require SO MANY RESOURCES that they'd have to go intergalaxy to find enough resources.
Fourth, SSDs cannot, I repeat, CANNOT turn on a dime. One of the contributing factors to the end of the Executor was the mere fact that the secondary bridge couldn't take it out of the dive.
Fifth, just after Princess Leia became Chief of State, the New Republic had an easy time keeping the Empire in check. Why? (those of you who've read the Thrawn trilogy know this) Because all of the experienced officers died on the Executor, leaving the Empire in the hands of newly trained cadets.
Sixth, you don't need an SSD to keep citizens in check. Look what Grand Admiral Thrawn did with his, what, three ImpStar Dueces (Imperial Star Destroyer Mark II). As, major shift here, Colonel O'Neill said, This (Both an SSD and the Death Stars) is a weapon of terror; it is meant to intimidate your enemy. This (An Imperial Star Destroyer, any class) is a weapon of war; it is meant to kill your enemy."
Point taken?
Edit: IIRC Tempest, the bridge needs to sit much further aft.
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He's working on it :)
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For the record, there were 14 Executor class Dreadnoughts:
Aggressor
Annihilator
Executor
Guardian
Intimidator
Iron Fist
Knight Hammer
Lusankya
Razor's Kiss
Reaper
Terror
Vengeance
Whelm
and one unnamed one seen at Fondor.
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what about the one you fly through and destroy in Rebel Assault 2? Is that one named?
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That's the Terror
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Before to choose this only option, why don't you asked to SCP coder to override the actual code to support more than 110 sub object ? I don't know the difficulties since I don't have the source code and well C++ isn't my langage of predilection :p
If it's just a value to modify, so it would be easy to have a ship with more than 110 subobject. If it's not the case and it's based on some mysterious parameter. :/
IIRC, these values are all going dynamic anyways... if it's not too much trouble, couldn't there be two versions? (Because one would just be an unturreted version of the other.) Then you could have the turreted version for future use when 3.7 comes out. Heck, IDK, though, they may have already made it dynamic in 3.6.9... let me check.
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A lot of stuff is dynamic already from what I've seen on the forums. No real mention of enforced engine limits by anyone who would actually know (SCP team). However, some tools may not be able to handle the creation of limit pushing ships. PCS2 should be able to handle everything, but I don't know that anyone's tried anything that massive on it yet. One thing I'm wondering is, how to you name turrets over 99? you just start using a three digit system instead? Or what?
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Looky here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48559.0.html). (SCP Dev Roadmap.) I posted there, maybe we'll get an answer...
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Mesh is going to be sent off into post-processing now, where it will be transpanted with brandx's shield globes, then be textured and poffed.
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/Tempest_77/ExecutorFinalRender-1.png)
58034 polygons.
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Isn't this supposed to be able to fit a normal SD into its hangar bay? I hear it was from a friend of mine.
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If the hangar bay is more than 1600m long, and half as tall, and over half as wide, then yeah, I guess it could. But I don't think it's that big.
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But this SSD is the "official" size, right?
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If by official you mean 19km, yes, it will be. See the Ship Database on the website for it and other ship sizes.
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Mesh is going to be sent off into post-processing now, where it will be transpanted with brandx's shield globes, then be textured and poffed.
*many images*
I think I speak for everyone when I say: "Hubba hubba"
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A lot of stuff is dynamic already from what I've seen on the forums. No real mention of enforced engine limits by anyone who would actually know (SCP team). However, some tools may not be able to handle the creation of limit pushing ships. PCS2 should be able to handle everything, but I don't know that anyone's tried anything that massive on it yet. One thing I'm wondering is, how to you name turrets over 99? you just start using a three digit system instead? Or what?
there shouldn't be any problem with three digit numbers on the turrets. The turrets don't even need turret in the name as long as they have someting similar to this:
$special=subsystem
$fov=180
$name=GunTurret
in the submodel properties they should be fine.
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Great work so far on the SSD. Really looks impressive and quite the intimidating MF.
As for the number of SSDs built before Endor, it really depends on what you're allowing as canon. Rebel Assault 1 and 2 kind of exist outside continuity the same way X-wing Vs. TIE Fighter: Balance of Power Campaigns exist outside of continuity (events contradict established universe so think of them as an AU).
If anything, I would consider picking and choosing what to accept and what to discard, but also one must consider the story that's being told. At which point of the Galactic Civil War is the story centered around? within the time spanning the original trilogy or post? Is the story focused on reproducing events or situations already present, or will something new be generated (i.e. new villains and heroes created for the campaign, not just a retelling of say, the Black Fleet Crisis)?
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I'm not sure what the main campaign will be but, I believe there is going to be a campaign or mini-campaign based on the rogue squadron books.
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Hmm, there is some info on SSDs in these links.. apparently some of them had Super Lasers 2/3rds as powerful as the DS??
:wtf: I said they came in different flavors, and I did mention concussion missiles. :p I'll dig up some info for you. :p
EDIT:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Proton_torpedo
has info on the MGA-1 and the MG7-A torpedoes, the MG7-A was used by the X-Wing vs. the DSI. Apparently, the MGA-1 is a capship weapon (heavy frigate); there are picures in the article link above.
EDIT2:
Ok, these were enlightening:
http://www.answers.com/topic/weapons-of-star-wars?cat=entertainment
but, especially, this link that I got from the link above:
http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-star-wars-ship-mounted-weapons
More info here, but mostly same stuff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Wars_ship-mounted_weapons#Proton_torpedoes
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I'll be doing the Rogue Squadron campaign at some point, not yet though.
As for the superlaser, that's on the eclipse-class, different from this one.
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there was also a super laser on the sovereign class star dreadnought
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Yah, I read that too... :wtf: why the heck would they build a Death Star if they could just stick a super laser in a Sovereign class Star Dreadnought or Eclipse class ISD? :confused: They must love throwing money away worse than (wel ok, maybe the same as) our government!
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Yah, I read that too... :wtf: why the heck would they build a Death Star if they could just stick a super laser in a Sovereign class Star Dreadnought or Eclipse class ISD?
Actually, a Hutt did that later in the series, though I do believe it was pre-Yuuzhan Vong War.
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Ah. You are referring to Darksaber. As I recall, it was only the superlaser, a reactor, and a command area. It didn't last long.
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Yeah, the New Republic and the Galactic Alliance frown on cilivilian superweapons (Centerpoint Station excepted...)
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Somebody hasn't been reading Legacy of the Force...
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Somebody doesn't like the storyline of Legacy of the Force. The New Jedi Order is okay, but I'm still confused about how the Yuuzhan Vong amassed such a large fleet so quickly...
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the new jedi order is a great pile of s****
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the new jedi order is a great pile of s****
agreed
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This SSD was made by a guy named fractalsponge...
It is uber looking... but the poly count is huge. In a few cases
Max can't even load it on a old machine.
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/Ship.rar
Sorry I don't have a link to the SW site where I got it.
It was buggy back then anyway.
fractal's website with his even more detailed ISD is here:
http://fractalsponge.net/ISD/gallery/index.html
Maybe use these for ideas on your SSD...
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download doesn't work
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...and that's an ISD, not an SSD! :p
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If you notice.... the way I said what I did indicated
my link download was an SSD and the other page was
fractal's ISD which was even more detailed.
The SSD was one of his earlier projects. He also did a TIE
and some other craft...
working link....
http://files.fringespace.org/jgz/SSD/Ship.rar
I changed the file locations around a few months back, tis why it didn't work.
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Oopsie. My bad. :nervous:
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cool the download works now. :yes: unfortunately i can't open a .max, but that doesn't matter cause i couldn't do anything with it anyways.