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Hosted Projects - Standalone => Wing Commander Saga => Topic started by: Wolfy on August 13, 2007, 08:20:24 am

Title: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on August 13, 2007, 08:20:24 am
Which ships from Wing Commander will be included? all of them or just some of them?

ive never played any of the WC games before unfortunatly so the only place i can find information on ships fom the WC series of games is this section on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Wing_Commander_spacecraft

i did a quick check thorugh to see if i could see if it had been brought up before, but i coudlnmt find anything so sorry if this has been asked before.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on August 13, 2007, 08:25:25 am
an excellent source for information on Wing Commander space craft is www.wcnews.com

It is sufficient to say that all of the WC3 craft will be included. A couple of WC2 ships made it into the game. We'll even include a few ships, that were not features in any WC game before (ships like the kilrathi light carrier or terran attack carrier).
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on August 13, 2007, 11:30:04 am
ah fair enough, so WC Saga is set around the time of WC3 and afterwards then?
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on August 13, 2007, 11:37:21 am
WC3 only
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: akenbosch on August 14, 2007, 12:41:59 pm
do we get kilrathi ships as player-flyable? (for gaunlets and multiplayer, of course)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on August 14, 2007, 12:42:50 pm
it is ... possible :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Starman01 on August 14, 2007, 12:51:31 pm
Yep, just a simple table modification, for people who want to mod the mod ( I like the sound of that :) )
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: akenbosch on August 14, 2007, 12:52:26 pm
for the official (finaL) version/patch?
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on August 14, 2007, 12:55:14 pm
like I said before, it is likely
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Stone48420 on August 17, 2007, 01:14:46 pm
It would be very cool if all the ships where included.  At least all ships that were made into 3d models from Armada and also Wing commander 4.  I really want to see your guys take on the Wraith medium fighter or even some of those Kilrathi Armada ships like the Shiraak Carrier or the Shok'lar stealth fighter.  I know and understand that you guys all have lives and such but it would be very cool to see all those ships in game.

I image a multiplayer mode where players pick a class of fighters light medium or heavy fighters. If they pick light fighter class all combatants will start out with an Hornet once one dies he respawns in an Epee or which ever is the more advanced version of the light fighter.  It just keeps on going until last fighter is gone.  Don't know if I got my point acrossed there?

Anyways great mod I know I don't post often but I still think you guys are doing a great job and please keep up the good work. 
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: akenbosch on August 17, 2007, 01:41:44 pm
in fs multiplayer, you get to choose whatever type of ship you want (as long as its player allowed). but im sure some clever use of SEXPs could make a mission like that, but not a true dogfight.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: karajorma on August 19, 2007, 05:45:08 am
I image a multiplayer mode where players pick a class of fighters light medium or heavy fighters. If they pick light fighter class all combatants will start out with an Hornet once one dies he respawns in an Epee or which ever is the more advanced version of the light fighter.  It just keeps on going until last fighter is gone.  Don't know if I got my point acrossed there?

I could see that working once change-ship is fixed to work in multiplayer games. You'd need to somehow check for respawns and work your way down a list of ships using the in-sequence SEXP but I don't consider that to be impossible (and maybe not even that difficult).
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: namedjughead on August 27, 2007, 08:08:56 pm
You guys have made an awesome game here, i can't wait till the next release. I was also wondering what ships would be included in the final release. I'm glad to see you guys including WC2 era ships like the Rapier II, Ferret, ect. Will you try to include some WC1 ships like the Hornet, Scimitar, Dralthi, Salthi, ect? Even if these ships aren't used in the campaign, they would be good to have for third-party missions and multiplayer. Although the ships from WC3 era are more modern and powerful, but in my opinion they are ugly ships. I know that their design was limited by the technology of the early 90's. I think the designs from the first two games are much sleeker and stylish than the ones from three and four.I realise that you guys have lives and family and are doing this for free, and it is greatly appreciated by all us Wing Commander fans. I guess i really want to know if you guys plan on eventually adding the ships too. Again great TC, keep up the awesome work guys.

Here is a link to a free low poly hornet model by Howard Day.
low poly Hornet model (http://www.wcnews.com/news/update/7425)

Title: Re: available ships
Post by: ZildjianO0 on August 28, 2007, 01:07:57 am
i'm sure this has been mentioned in another thread because i think i remember reading this but never seeing an answer.  Is the team planning on putting the Banshee in this game?  Technically it's in WC4 but it's considered an old ship by the time we see it... making it perfect to fit in WC3 era.  I seem to remember something about gun convergence being an issue... but it'd still be nice to see in the game... even as a multiplayer only ship.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on August 28, 2007, 01:59:46 am
Actually, that Hornet was included in the early build of the Codename: Hermes back in 2004. The model has been removed since then as well as all WC4 ships we've converted by that point. They won't be featured in the game, but I could (as long as these models work) release them for public use. That is, if somebody is interested in them. :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Stone48420 on August 30, 2007, 07:48:18 pm
Im sure everyone is interested,  I always hoped that the final release we would see a tech room full of wing commander ships as many that were in freespace all from different eras. (Mostly wing commander 4 and earlier)  Is that gonna be difficult Ive seen over the years that you guys made some killer models (MorningStar anyone) Im just hoping to see them all ingame.  Plus multiplayer would be kick ass flying all those ships against each other.  Just image the possiblities.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on August 31, 2007, 03:23:24 pm
It's a deal then. I've started putting together a Wing Commander 4 package. Right now it includes Intrepid, Banshee, Avenger, Vindicator and Assault Shuttle (old model). They should work, but I can give no guarantee. These models are 4 years old, which means, that they have not been optimized for the HTL mode, which was implemented back in 2004.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Scooby_Doo on August 31, 2007, 09:40:18 pm
BTW I have a near canon banshee and cannon avenger in the works...and a dragon mark 2 & the vindicator 2 both are different from the original.
Also I have a morningstar in the backwoods rotting somewheres  :lol: Someday it'll get retextured again.I have a Sarlthi ready to go, just crashes the game without debug info.  Scimitar... ehhh my version is a bit too unique for that.  Oh as for the steltek, I've already released a fighter or was it a scout???  I've got the kilrathi wc2 heavy fighter Jalkthi in the works too.
Dunno if that'll helps  :)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/banshee1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/sartha5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/steltek-scout.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/gladius3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/kriska-6.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/crossbow-5a.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/bloodfang-1.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/dragon5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Shodan_AI/vin2.jpg)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 01, 2007, 04:50:07 am
The Vindicator looks like its an older Version of the Vindicator instead of a MK2. Might be the texturejob wich is good but reminds me of an old propeller airplain ^_^
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 03, 2007, 06:05:57 am
A quick update: the package is almost ready. It will contain following WC4 models: Wing Commander 4 models: Avenger, Banshee, Vindicator, Durango-class, Bearcat and Dragon. a prototype of the stormfire cannon will be included.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: IceFire on September 03, 2007, 07:51:38 pm
Oooh...Bearcat!  Always liked that ship...would use it as often as I could.  Sorely underappreciated in WC4.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 04, 2007, 03:36:57 am
Indeed the Bearcat was kinda cool.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: nowd on September 04, 2007, 04:30:08 am
Quote
Indeed the Bearcat was kinda cool.
It was cool. It handles like an arrow, is fast like a Razor and can take even more punishment than an Excalibur.
But there are 2 things i hate about that fighter.
1)It has light tachyons with only 50 damage and 30 nj Energy drain. Normal tachyons have 70 cm and 40 nj Energie drain.
2)It has the worst gun arrangement in the entire series. It has a very broad silhouette and the guns are placed at the outer edge of the wings. Honestly i think that this will render the fighter almost useless in the Freespace engine.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Scooby_Doo on September 04, 2007, 05:00:00 am
Convergence is now available.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 04, 2007, 05:26:37 am
I am not sure. I remember Bearcat being fairly powerful last time I flown it in Saga. That was 4 years ago I believe.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: nowd on September 04, 2007, 06:08:59 am
Quote
I remember Bearcat being fairly powerful last time I flown it in Saga. That was 4 years ago I believe.
Then i've said nothing. :warp: . I just noticed that it is quite difficult to hit something with fighters with similiar gun placement (like the Artemis in Freespace). But if you say it performs well i'll guess i'm wrong.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 04, 2007, 06:14:33 am
I said I believe it was powerful. I am not sure. But I guess you will have to find it for yourself. The package is ready - I did not test it ingame though. And of course, it is not fully balanced.  ;)

Download (http://www,wcsaga.com/com/team/tolwyn/wc4.0.06.rar)

I would like to tweak a few things and I guess, I'll add the Concordia-class, which was removed from the game as well.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: nowd on September 04, 2007, 11:54:21 am
There is a typo in the link. However this (http://www.wcsaga.com/team/tolwyn/wc4.0.06.rar) this one worked.  ;)
But there is another problem: I get an error message:

Error: wc4-wep.tbm(line 89:
Error: Required token = [#End] or [$Name:], found [$Pspew: ]
in weapon: Stormfire Mk1.

File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Parse\PARSELO.CPP
Line: 659
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]

Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 04, 2007, 12:11:47 pm
yer. Then the same error again for the next few lines down on the weapons table

i took out from where the 1st error starts in the weapons table unitll the end of that weapon, and fred loads fine. However, im not going to try it ingme without that section back into the weapons table and working.

Anyone know how?

oh, and just cs i can:

(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/edins_2006/WCS.jpg)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 04, 2007, 12:37:31 pm
bah, it did work for me. I'll check the table using good old 3.6.9 EXE.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 04, 2007, 12:49:05 pm
WCS has alot of VP files where in the original FS2 there where only 1 or 2 VPs with all these things in.

surely it would speed things up in modding if everything was all within one VP?
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 04, 2007, 12:50:57 pm
surely it would speed things up in modding if everything was all within one VP?

why would it speed things up? You have to extract data files only once. And it makes it easier for us to patch the game. :)

Anyway, here is the updated version. I have no idea why 3.6.9 complains about particle generation entry. It also complains about table syntax, which is correct according to 3.6.10 builds I use. Go figure. :)

Download (http://www.wcsaga.com/team/tolwyn/wc4.0.07.rar)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: nowd on September 04, 2007, 01:43:57 pm
The new stuff is cooooool. And i was wrong: The Bearcat rocks (besides its out of energy in 2 seconds  ;) ).
The Banshee is quite powerful. With four lasers and 2 Mass Drivern it is almost more efficient than the Arrow.
The Stormfire is really cool. If used together with the primaries it can be very deadly.
But I got a problem with the Vindicator and the Dragon(it really has unlimitd afterburner  ;) ). They don't have their standard Tachyon Guns.

But thats a minor problem. The models are great and the WC4 package at all is a great addition for WCSaga.  :yes:
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 04, 2007, 02:00:37 pm
I told you - I did not test this stuff ingame. So some values might be incorrect. It is up to you now to correct them. :D
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: nowd on September 04, 2007, 02:14:38 pm
I told you - I did not test this stuff ingame. So some values might be incorrect. It is up to you now to correct them. :D
Alright then. I just downloaded VP view and VP mage. Time to learn modding, i guess.  ;)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 04, 2007, 02:38:17 pm
take a look at this page - should make things a bit easier :) http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships.tbl
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: nowd on September 04, 2007, 02:59:14 pm
Thanks, but including the standard Tachyon was quite easy. It works fine.
Now the Dragon is just as overpowered and overgunned as it used to be.  ;)

But the FS wiki is very informative. I'll surely take a look. I guess you can do some interesting things with .vp editing.  :)
Maybe i'll try to do a bit of balancing work with the WC4 fighters
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 04, 2007, 03:15:36 pm
well then, carry on then. ;)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 04, 2007, 06:12:59 pm
good luck :)

im keeping the ones i downloaded as they are, im not really fussed about balanceing mine.

what u where saying about the bearcats energy, just increase power to the guns from either shilds or engines (or a it of both) it doesnt need much more energy to have a longer mount of fire rate
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 05, 2007, 01:59:50 am
Still, they could use a bit of tweaking. :)

We've completely rebalanced weapon/shield energy after the release of the Prologue using new features granted by 3.6.10 EXE
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 05, 2007, 11:42:00 am
hm, and heres me still only using 1.6.9...
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 05, 2007, 11:43:59 am
hm, and heres me still only using 1.6.9...

wow ;)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: dragon1 on September 06, 2007, 06:14:14 pm
Tolwyn,

Excellent ship pack! Thank you.

Any chance on getting the Vesuvius?  That would really rock!  Or some of the old WC2 models that you guys have worked on?

Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 07, 2007, 01:02:27 am
Ah yes, I forgot we made Vesuvius at one point :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: nowd on September 08, 2007, 05:27:51 am
I've got another question. 
In FS2 firing with full guns decreases the rate of fire compared to firing with only one weapon bank.
Are you going to change that? Is it even possible?
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 08, 2007, 05:51:07 am
we have already changed that. 3.6.10 is required as well as a modified ai_profiles.tbl to enable this feature.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 08, 2007, 11:56:08 am
is there a location we can download all these upgrades for gameplay and stuff?
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 09, 2007, 11:57:29 am
No, you can't at the moment. First of all, these changes currently affect the development of the Codename: Hermes only (although we will incorporate these changes into the Prologue patch). Second: 3.6.10 is not finished yet.

You could try it out yourself though using the "recent build" posted by Goober. It will mean some work though.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 09, 2007, 04:13:53 pm
hm, il just wait for the patch :)

im still a noob at modding freespace (least i can add ships and weapons)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 10, 2007, 12:10:04 pm
upgrades for gameplay and stuff?

speaking of upgrades: an incomplete list of recent changes can be viewed here (http://www.wcsaga.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=124&Itemid=26). :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 11, 2007, 05:34:20 am
oh wow... good luck with finding voice actors :)

i know i refuse to be one :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Stone48420 on September 11, 2007, 06:38:55 am
Auto Aiming very cool I can't wait to jump back into an excalibur and kick some Kitty Ass.  ;7
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 11, 2007, 06:53:36 am
Oh yes, auto aiming is pretty cool. The interesting thing about it is that it targets subsystems as well! Very useful to destroy turrets on capital ships ;)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Starman01 on September 12, 2007, 01:08:10 pm
Meh, it's like cheating . I don't like it :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Aginor on September 13, 2007, 01:40:30 am
I don't like it, either. Although it makes me a better cat-killer.... ;)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 13, 2007, 11:17:22 am
how can you say you dont like it when you havent even used it yet? :S
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: gevatter Lars on September 13, 2007, 11:41:41 am
A little hint. Both have most likely played WC3 and both are part of the team that uses this function for there models...so you might guess that they have allready tested it ^_^
I remember the first time I was flighing the Excal in WC3. Toasted 3 catfighters that where comming at me without even do something special. Just pointing roughly into there direction and that it.
First reaction "Wow thats cool!"
After a while "Can I turn it off? Its kinda boring"
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 13, 2007, 12:03:07 pm
how can you say you dont like it when you havent even used it yet? :S

I have to contradict you here. All of the developers can test the autoaiming feature with our own builds and models :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Starman01 on September 13, 2007, 12:58:16 pm
Yeah, and I knew it from WC3, and it was boring :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 13, 2007, 01:00:09 pm
yes, it does make the game "a bit" easier. :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Scooby_Doo on September 13, 2007, 05:08:54 pm
Oh yes, auto aiming is pretty cool. The interesting thing about it is that it targets subsystems as well! Very useful to destroy turrets on capital ships ;)

Ah very useful for my siege fighters who's primary mission is to take out turrets.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Wolfy on September 15, 2007, 03:34:39 am
hmm, so those stars are the WCS logo? ooooops

maybe you could make a way of turning auto-targeting off in the Launcher window?
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on September 15, 2007, 04:00:56 am
maybe you could make a way of turning auto-targeting off in the Launcher window?

no, there will be neither -turn_auto_target_off nor -wcsaga flag in the launcher. We might tie autotargeting function to the difficulty setting though (e.g. no autotargeting at high difficulty levels).
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: IceFire on October 21, 2007, 02:46:40 pm
Meh, it's like cheating . I don't like it :)
True that! Athough....craft like the Bearcat, should you guys go and do WC4 themed missions later, almost needs the auto aim properly.  Loved that fighter (possibly my favourite...always went and got it during the optional missions) but it really needed the auto aim with the guns all the way out on the wings.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Starman01 on October 22, 2007, 05:28:37 am
Well, not really the auto aiming, but the bearcat, excalibur and some of the WC2 craft could use the laser convergence thing (did it ever made it into release state). Trying to destroy a turret with weapons mounted under the wing is nearly impossible, because the shoots go left and right of your recyticle (spell ? )

Title: Re: available ships
Post by: starlord on October 22, 2007, 05:37:01 am
Hello there, I was just wondering if you would also use kilrathi static defenses in the saga campaign like that asteroid base in WC3 (no, no talk about dreadnaughts this time :p)

Also, what about using a kilrathi shuttle (like the WC4 model): It might be useful for quick strike or even capture operations (something never done in WC3).

Of course you do realise those are only questions and in no way I'm doing you job for you.

Just tell me what you think of this.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Aginor on October 22, 2007, 06:24:27 am
Well, I can tell you....

....wait!, what's that??!!

NOO!!!

.... I have to go, no time to talk. Sorry!

 :p
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: starlord on October 22, 2007, 07:46:50 am
Well that was to the point

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on October 22, 2007, 08:20:30 am
speaking of available ships: you might find this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,50151.0.html) interesting.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Starman01 on October 22, 2007, 10:43:46 am
Hello there, I was just wondering if you would also use kilrathi static defenses in the saga campaign like that asteroid base in WC3

I think it's safe to say that this already in. I have released pictures about it ages ago. Of course, the model needs some overhaul now, it doesn't even have an UV-map now. However, it was my first model with a build in hangar :)

And there will be many more different suprises in the game later :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on October 22, 2007, 10:48:22 am
And there will be many more different suprises in the game later :)

Yes, I suppose there will be ;)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: IceFire on October 22, 2007, 11:20:44 pm
Well, not really the auto aiming, but the bearcat, excalibur and some of the WC2 craft could use the laser convergence thing (did it ever made it into release state). Trying to destroy a turret with weapons mounted under the wing is nearly impossible, because the shoots go left and right of your recyticle (spell ? )


Reticle :)

Yeah convergence would be a huge thing for some of these as well.  Otherwise the fire points have to be moved inwards.  Hope that gets sorted in the code.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Scooby_Doo on October 22, 2007, 11:42:46 pm
Well I did mention axis limited converagance  (individual x and z axis).  You can set angle limits for example X:0 Z:15 the gun can swirve left to right by 15 degrees but not up or down.  This would make sieges much better, right now my blackwidow is absolutely worthless i have to aim off to the side to be useful.  :lol:
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: starlord on October 24, 2007, 04:46:57 am
Wow: great work all of you:

Speaking of Wc4 ships, do you know that some unused models like the black lance carrier are quite attractive too: would be good to see this one somewhere should you continue a WC4 conversion.

I'm also pleased you included the asteroid base, but I was referring to a kilrathi shuttle being used in saga (obviously the WC4 model) for capture missions (were we would disable such a shuttle using leechs to capture high ranking officers) or quick strike (were we would destroy such a shuttle to hamper kilrathi efforts).
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Tolwyn on October 24, 2007, 04:56:49 am
Speaking of Wc4 ships, do you know that some unused models like the black lance carrier are quite attractive too: would be good to see this one somewhere should you continue a WC4 conversion.

I estimate chances of converting it are less than zero.

Quote
I'm also pleased you included the asteroid base, but I was referring to a kilrathi shuttle being used in saga (obviously the WC4 model) for capture missions (were we would disable such a shuttle using leechs to capture high ranking officers) or quick strike (were we would destroy such a shuttle to hamper kilrathi efforts).

Ah, that one. Well, uh, yes, an interesting model. :)
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: starlord on October 24, 2007, 10:16:23 am
and it could be of use in saga missions too.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: headdie on November 17, 2007, 06:26:34 pm
do you have any WC1/2 era ships hanging around, most of my play time as been in this setting and the epee would be a perfect fighter under FS engine with its two chin mounted cannons
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: Scooby_Doo on November 17, 2007, 07:32:53 pm
The only epee I know of is the one I'm doing and that'll be about a month or so till it's done.
Title: Re: available ships
Post by: starlord on November 18, 2007, 05:18:03 am
Tolwyn, scooby doo: did you recieve my PM's?