Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: sixlaneve on August 19, 2007, 04:14:57 pm

Title: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: sixlaneve on August 19, 2007, 04:14:57 pm
Hi,

has anyone ever managed to stop the NTF Iceni in Freespace 2?

I guess it is impossible but, who knows... I tried few times in "very easy" without luck...
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 04:18:25 pm
www.freespace2.com

~+shift 0 x 5 for both banks. (or until you get powerful beamz)

aim and fire like a madman.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mobius on August 19, 2007, 04:19:07 pm
You mean in the third mission? It's supposed to escape. In Endgame, it is supposed to escape...too...

www.freespace2.com

~+shift 0 x 5 for both banks. (or until you get powerful beamz)

aim and fire like a madman.

 :doubt:
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 19, 2007, 04:20:10 pm
With cheats everything is possible. The storyline and mission design in both missions state very clearly that the Iceni must escape, since FreeSpaces don't feature branching campaigns.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: sixlaneve on August 19, 2007, 04:22:28 pm
oh...

I should stop trying to see if there is an hidden storyline then
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 04:27:17 pm
you can kill the evil wignmen in the last SoC mission before they turn hostile. [v] used something like "no traitor" (if they even had that with retail FRED)
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 19, 2007, 04:28:41 pm
oh...

I should stop trying to see if there is an hidden storyline then
Yeah. This (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48476.0.html) is what happened the last time some over eager Alpha 1 attempted to defy destiny.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: akenbosch on August 19, 2007, 04:30:58 pm
i saved the collosus in "their finest hour", killed the sathanas in "into the lions den", and saved cappella (all without cheats!". but did i get a reward? NOOOoooo.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: sixlaneve on August 19, 2007, 04:33:12 pm
oh...

I should stop trying to see if there is an hidden storyline then
Yeah. This (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48476.0.html) is what happened the last time some over eager Alpha 1 attempted to defy destiny.

Oh yeah, I did that too! :)
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 19, 2007, 04:36:19 pm
We should have something like "For saving the GTVA Colossus, destroying several Juggernaut class Shivan warships and preventing an inevitable supernova of the Capella star, and doing all this while flying a ****ing one man fighter, GTVA Command awards you the Quadruple Ace".
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: AlphaOne on August 19, 2007, 04:44:12 pm
quadruple ace is not good enough alpha1 should be promoted to supreme commander of the GTVA fleets.

Then he can start a war and hunt down some of those idiots form GTVA command!


But about the Iceni that ship is a monster. Also has seriously weak aaaf defences for its size. Well weak compared to the Deimos that is which is another beast altoghether....! I dare you to try and take out a Deimos while thinking its dirt easy ! The shivans tried and failed miserably.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 19, 2007, 10:44:46 pm
quadruple ace is not good enough alpha1 should be promoted to supreme commander of the GTVA fleets.

See, that would regard him as useless, because he would be stuck behind a desk all his career.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: StarSlayer on August 19, 2007, 10:56:37 pm
Would there even be an FS2 if you cooked Iceni?  Well i suppose Trinity might go its merry way and still open up the gate but, if not... aside from a few wrapping up the NTF missions that would be the campaign in a nutshell :p
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mars on August 19, 2007, 11:02:22 pm
Yeah... I disabled the Iceni in the third mission... and nothing happened... of course.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 19, 2007, 11:29:51 pm
if i ever make a campaign, whenever something happens, i'm just gonna make command say "YOU FRAKKING CHEATER!!!" and blow up Alpha one
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 20, 2007, 08:59:34 am
Fun. :D
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Game_Master64 on August 20, 2007, 09:46:19 am
We should have something like "For saving the GTVA Colossus, destroying several Juggernaut class Shivan warships and preventing an inevitable supernova of the Capella star, and doing all this while flying a ****ing one man fighter, GTVA Command awards you....Ah hell, just take my job!

There, fixed
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2007, 09:53:17 am
Geez, you can't ****ing kill the iceni in Endgame because it's got ship-guardian. Even with cheats. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Kie99 on August 20, 2007, 10:06:27 am
I've taken out the Sathanas and saved the Colossus in Their Finest Hour once without cheats.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2007, 10:07:33 am
I've taken out the Sathanas and saved the Colossus in Their Finest Hour once without cheats.

How?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 20, 2007, 10:09:29 am
There, fixed
Yeah, that works too. What I was originally after was that, for doing tasks that would humiliate even Heracles, Command would still probably just give some piece-of-crap medal that would merely insult the almighty Alpha 1.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Kie99 on August 20, 2007, 10:24:38 am
I've taken out the Sathanas and saved the Colossus in Their Finest Hour once without cheats.

How?

Destroying the Sathanas' beams.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 20, 2007, 10:26:09 am
I've taken out the Sathanas and saved the Colossus in Their Finest Hour once without cheats.

How?

Destroying the Sathanas' beams.

you must of not did your job then, as command specifically told you to destroy the a cruiser which jumps in at the opposite site of the battle area
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mars on August 20, 2007, 10:27:49 am
Command would probably say that too
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2007, 11:13:28 am
you must of not did your job then, as command specifically told you to destroy the a cruiser which jumps in at the opposite site of the battle area

I've played this mission many, many times. The SC Demogorgon followed by the Baal jumps in (both Cain). Then the SC Orcus (Rak) jumps in, followed by the Hela (Lilith). When the Hela is blown up, the Beast jumps in, followed finally by the Sathanas.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Kie99 on August 20, 2007, 11:14:57 am
I've taken out the Sathanas and saved the Colossus in Their Finest Hour once without cheats.

How?

Destroying the Sathanas' beams.

you must of not did your job then, as command specifically told you to destroy the a cruiser which jumps in at the opposite site of the battle area

Ever played the mission?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2007, 11:20:15 am
Yeah, idiot. :P
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mobius on August 20, 2007, 12:20:31 pm
I've taken out the Sathanas and saved the Colossus in Their Finest Hour once without cheats.

How?

Destroying the Sathanas' beams.

I didn't even have to touch the Sathanas(well...I had to destroy the LRed)because it simply moved where the Colossus could hit it with its beams. The Sathanas couldn't use its BFReds. I had to wait, but at the end the Sathanas blew up!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2007, 12:21:34 pm
How the hell did that happen?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mobius on August 20, 2007, 12:24:23 pm
The Sathanas moved...it inflicted serious damage but its BFReds were no longer able to hit the Colossus.

I must have a screenshot somewhere(it was a memorable moment)...
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 20, 2007, 12:39:54 pm
I've taken out the Sathanas and saved the Colossus in Their Finest Hour once without cheats.

How?

Destroying the Sathanas' beams.

you must of not did your job then, as command specifically told you to destroy the a cruiser which jumps in at the opposite site of the battle area

Ever played the mission?

well...****. I thought you were talking about the mission where the Big C gets blown up. ****. I gotta start paying attention to the mission names...
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 20, 2007, 12:41:20 pm
We are talking about the one where the Colly goes up.

Idiot.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: StarSlayer on August 20, 2007, 01:49:01 pm
What the hell happens to the mission if the Sathanas moves out of firing position and gets toasted by the Colli? Does it end? I would think it would bust the mission logic.  At the very least GTVA Command would be baffled.

Command: "Get out of there Colossus"

Colossus: "Nah we got this one in the bag"

Command: "...Alpha 1 for classify Colossus as a traitor for ignoring orders and eliminate"
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: karajorma on August 20, 2007, 01:54:57 pm
Oi. Less flaming.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Kie99 on August 20, 2007, 04:56:08 pm
What the hell happens to the mission if the Sathanas moves out of firing position and gets toasted by the Colli? Does it end? I would think it would bust the mission logic.  At the very least GTVA Command would be baffled.

Command: "Get out of there Colossus"

Colossus: "Nah we got this one in the bag"

Command: "...Alpha 1 for classify Colossus as a traitor for ignoring orders and eliminate"

Nothing happens...mission's not designed to take into account saving the Colossus.  You just wait and then when you jump out you get the deserter debriefing.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 20, 2007, 05:52:55 pm
I've tried to save the Big C a few times... I always get flak'ed by flak, whenever I get near the Sath's beams. Anyways--I think someone could stop the Sath from turning the Big C into a heck of a big (but short) BBQ.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 21, 2007, 07:55:21 am
I can save the Colossus, and Capella, AND jump out safely, for I am the almighty FRED!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 21, 2007, 10:22:08 am
I can save the Colossus, and Capella, AND jump out safely, for I am the almighty FRED!

Then I must be using you. Sorry for that.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 21, 2007, 01:08:15 pm
*uses colecampbell666 (AKA FRED2)*
I'll just jump in a hundred Colossi to destroy the Shivan Armada... even if we're stupid and jump them in directly in front of the Sathani, we should still be able to take 1 or 2 with us!
*saves Colossus 1, the Capella star, and jumps out Colossus 3 and Colossus 87! Oh, and I lost Colossus 2, Colossus 4-86, and Colossus 88-101!*
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 21, 2007, 01:52:36 pm
You ever wonder why the Shivans have so many ships? Maybe THEY have Fred2.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: sixlaneve on August 21, 2007, 02:07:28 pm
LOL... we'd remake the entire campaign, like Colony Wars!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Black Wolf on August 21, 2007, 02:22:38 pm
Heh. The entire Freespace story is just some Shivans newbie campaign.

Shivan one "I've got this cool new ship. It's three kilometers long, it's got Two beam cannons, and it can destroy planets and its invincible because it has super shielding!"

Shivan Two "Oh yeah? Well I've got an even cooler ship! It's Six kilometers long and it has four beam cannons and it can destroy Stars. And I have eighty of them!"

Shivan one "Hey! No Fair!"
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 21, 2007, 02:25:53 pm
You ever wonder why the Shivans have so many ships? Maybe THEY have Fred2.
And THEY DON'T have the logistical problems of supplying eighty Juggernaut-class ships!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Ghostavo on August 21, 2007, 02:59:12 pm
You ever wonder why the Shivans have so many ships? Maybe THEY have Fred2.
And THEY DON'T have the logistical problems of supplying eighty Juggernaut-class ships!

That you know of...
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 21, 2007, 03:08:56 pm
Well the Shivans have Freighters.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 21, 2007, 03:52:11 pm
I don't remember any post-Sathanas Numero Uno. They're probably there and it's just sketchy memory--I don't remember stuff like that all too well.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Kie99 on August 21, 2007, 05:11:09 pm
I don't remember any post-Sathanas Numero Uno. They're probably there and it's just sketchy memory--I don't remember stuff like that all too well.

There're a few in Their Finest Hour, right at the start.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Game_Master64 on August 21, 2007, 05:30:56 pm
something i've never thought about. if the shivans managed to build 80 Sathas, imagine the emense size of their ship-building operations.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mobius on August 21, 2007, 05:35:51 pm
1) The Shivans are old, damn old. The Sathanas that attacked Capella might be 9,000 years old. It doesn't mean that the Shivans have incredible ship-building facilities...they simply are an ancient species;

2) 80 Sathanas that arrived in no time. Try to imagine how big the WHOLE Shivan fleet is!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: AlphaOne on August 21, 2007, 05:46:08 pm
On the other hand those sathany could be the bulk of theyr fleet! Remember they are just old not invincible.

sure they have a fleet 10 or 20 times larger then the entire GTVA fleet! this is exclueding the Sathany! :shaking:


The point is the GTVA could match and even beat anything the shivans would throw at them if they had the time! But when you get youre whole damn fleet and at least one major solar sistem blown to bits every 30 or so years it's kinda heard to even ttry to put up a fight! :mad: :hopping: :mad2:
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mobius on August 21, 2007, 06:00:47 pm
The GTVA is primitive, it will never be able to face the true Shivan power. But of course, FreeSpace is a game...and in a game, you must have a chance of victory :doubt:
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: AlphaOne on August 22, 2007, 05:28:13 am
well go figure genious! We are talking about what about the shivans who were around 8000 years ago to whipe out the ancients who were already a few thousand years in space soo how the hell can you even compare the 2 of them from this POV! The GTVA is not even worth mentioning from a time POV!

However when you think about the fact that they managed to equal and beat the shivans in terms of ship designs (smaller ones not the sathany) i mean its well kinda something dont you think???


Sure head on the shivans win each time when it comes to beam firepower but then again once you apply good tactics and use the superior fighter/bommber tactics of the GTVA and its superior aaaf defences the shivans kinda get they asses beat! Theyr main advantage is not in theyr uber beams but rather in their huge numbers!


Just give the GTVA time and well i can bet that the shivans will have a very hard time to crush or maul the GTVA like they did before!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 06:27:53 am
There's no way the GTVA can beat the Shivans if you're trying to take a "realistic" approach on your campaign (or just your point of view). But if you're trying to make your campaign really cool with a sense of victory, you always have the GTVA build 20 GTBS Archangel class ships in 2 years and have them defeat the Shivans. Again.

The Shivans have superior ships and weapons, but they just decide to throw everything at the GTVA mindlessly. Why? They don't care. They have 10000 destroyers, who cares if the SD Nebiros and the SD Beast go down? But the GTVA, they have something to worry about. They probably have about 20-30 destroyers, so if the GTD Messana and the GTD Aeneas go down, then it's a big loss for them. The GTVA have better tactics and win some of the battles, but there's NO WAY they can win the war against a species that has been wiping out entire civilizations for more than 8,000 years. In addition, if the Shivans were Derek smart enough (or cared enough for that matter) to cut their losses, they would use better tactics, and beat the GTVA's asses. But they aren't smart enough (or don't care enough) to do that so they just sacrifice thirty bomber wings but eventually, they will win the battle against an exhausted enemy battlegroup.

The GTVA CAN NOT beat the Shivans. Why? The Shivans have 80 ****ing Sathanes, what's to say they don't have more? Or something bigger? The GTVA are two species which have been spacefaring for at the most 100 years. The Shivans have been spacefaring and have seen combat in space for 8,000 frakking years. The Shivans might have a bit of a hard time defeating the GTVA, yes, the GTVA will put up one helluva fight before goin' down. But the Shivans will ultimately win, there's no other conclusion that is realistically possible.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 07:54:58 am
Given that the battles in FS2 universe resemble the trench war (sicne nodes are the onyl way in or out of a system) I'd say the GTVA culd put one HELL of a fight.

Yeah, the Sathanas broke trough that GTVA blockade unscratched, which realisticly ins't possbile. Hell try a FRED a mission with 4 destroyers + support craft blockading a node and let a Sathanas in. Chances are they will destroy him or damage it heavily.

Now throw a whole fgiggin fleet guarding a node, and you know only a few ship can come in at a time, you got the possibiltiy to concetrate the firepower of a whole fleet on just a few targets. The GTVA could hold a node like that for a long time and inflict horrendus losses to the shivans before being forced to pull back (attrition). And they pull to another node and repeat the process. Sure, the shivan would win in the end, but at a MASSIVE, and I mean MASSIVE price.

A good node blockade is worth gold! ;7
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: StarSlayer on August 22, 2007, 09:07:47 am
Last time i played with fred the magic number for a Destroyer frontal assault on a Jugg was 7 with 3-4 losses.  The major problem for destroyers is the fact that beams aren't the best Weapon for declawing a Sathanas and once its BFReds are down it still takes quite a while to cut through its hitpoints.  Even with the entire GTVA fleet sitting on the Jumpnode you get the issue of diminishing marginal returns, ie how many ships do you think you can have parked in the same space and still have them effectively fight?  Only 10-20 could still have a decent line of fire at any one time the rest would just be in the way.  When properly used strikecraft can strip the Jugg and leave it as bait for a Deimos(granted the gunnery crews would die of boredom) but that takes time and isn't neccasarily going to be effective in a blockade situation with everybody and their mum shooting beams all over the place.  The GTVA doesn't have a weapon that can take down a Jugg quickly and effectively, that means it needs to Destroyer spam it, which is costly and involves time consuming battles.  If they cannot wipe out the first Jugg before the next one enters system then they are screwed since once Juggs can start supporting each other they will be wiping on Destroyers left and right.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 10:06:31 am
3-4 destroyers loose bigtime to the Sath. It vaporizes them easily receiving about 20% damage.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: AlphaOne on August 22, 2007, 10:10:33 am
Are you sure about that thing? I mean we do have RBC's! Also you can park a s**t load of them at any jump point! Add a couple of destroyers and well i'l be damaned if you can prove to me that any jug can get through 50 or more RBC's and at least 20 destroyers. Orions please no god damn Hecates cuz they suck.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: StarSlayer on August 22, 2007, 10:37:41 am
Like i said law of diminishing marginal returns, you reach a point where the more warships you park in a confined space the less effective they are going to be.   You can certainly put hundreds of ships sitting on the gate but only a fraction will be able to effectively fire.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: TrashMan on August 22, 2007, 10:58:42 am
10 destroyers parked around the node is more than enough to quickly destroy a Sathanas...A Sath has to clear the jump node for anotehr one to jump in, and when it jumps in it's rear is exposed for beam raping (maby even disabling, thus creating a great cork for the next sath that comes in..*BOOOm* )

Adda ****load of bomber waiting to declaw any ship that comes in and you get a nice, tihngs blockade that even the shivans will have trouble braking.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 11:19:25 am
10 destroyers parked around the node is more than enough to quickly destroy a Sathanas...A Sath has to clear the jump node for anotehr one to jump in, and when it jumps in it's rear is exposed for beam raping (maby even disabling, thus creating a great cork for the next sath that comes in..*BOOOm* )

Adda ****load of bomber waiting to declaw any ship that comes in and you get a nice, tihngs blockade that even the shivans will have trouble braking.

Try these things before you say it.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: StarSlayer on August 22, 2007, 12:09:11 pm
10 destroyers parked around the node is more than enough to quickly destroy a Sathanas...A Sath has to clear the jump node for anotehr one to jump in, and when it jumps in it's rear is exposed for beam raping (maby even disabling, thus creating a great cork for the next sath that comes in..*BOOOm* )

Adda ****load of bomber waiting to declaw any ship that comes in and you get a nice, tihngs blockade that even the shivans will have trouble braking.

The problem with that is that even with ten Destroyers the Jugg is still going to get off a couple salvos, which is more then enough to wipe out 3-4 of those destroyers.  Plus flying bombers through 10 destroyers worth of beams and the Sathanas fire is going to be a living  nightmare for the bombers.  Its probably a big enough trap for a single jug but the blockaders are going to be hurting by the time the next one jumps in, if they aren't able to stop the first one before the second Jug jumps in then that's the plan shot out an airlock.  A frontal assault is perhaps the best scenario possible for a Jugg its what it excels at, well other then blowing up stars.  The best possible scenario IMO is that you can sortie all of your strikecraft to sit on the node and strip the sathanas once it jumps in.  Sit your destroyers out of range of the jump node and wait for the disarmed jugg to come to them, rinse wash repeat.  But that will fail if the Shivans can stuff Juggs through the node quicker then your bombers can rally and take out their BFReds.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2007, 12:20:27 pm
i made a crappy mission with 10 destroyers v. a Sath and it took down 4 of them at 75% before I got bored.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 22, 2007, 06:56:10 pm
I've had 5 Orion jump in next to a Sath... unfortunately they all ended up dying. They jumped in a bit behind the Sath, so one got fried by the rear beam. Followed by that, they promptly started beaming the Sath. Towards the end, they caught each other a few times. After that, the killed the Sath and were heavily damaged by the shockwave, followed by the Sath's debris, their explosions, and even more debris and more explosions! It was seriously odd--they all die, only one directly from the Sath, the other 4 from near-explosion damage and debris.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Hades on August 22, 2007, 07:06:42 pm
I remember when i first played High Noon, When the Sathanas died, The Colossus was at like 70, and all the debris Hit the Colossus and killed it.
Boy was i pissed.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 22, 2007, 07:18:11 pm
I've had 5 Orion jump in next to a Sath... unfortunately they all ended up dying. They jumped in a bit behind the Sath, so one got fried by the rear beam. Followed by that, they promptly started beaming the Sath. Towards the end, they caught each other a few times. After that, the killed the Sath and were heavily damaged by the shockwave, followed by the Sath's debris, their explosions, and even more debris and more explosions! It was seriously odd--they all die, only one directly from the Sath, the other 4 from near-explosion damage and debris.

Capital ships can't be harmed by explosions, right?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 22, 2007, 07:20:22 pm
Ya gotta hate that debris... especially when stuff like that happens--you completed your objectives only to lose to nearly-invincible debris. I've only seen large debris destroyed by beam weaponry--I've never been able to kill that stuff hurdling around at 200+m/s. I've lost several other missions from debris... the Enif Station mission was particularly bad. Enif Station was at 80% when a huge piece of debris heads towards it. Let's put it this way... a minute later, the station was down to 20%. It died to bombers after losing ~60%.

Capships CAN be harmed by explosions.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Excalibur on August 23, 2007, 12:16:48 am
Will 1 meson bomb kill a Sath?

If so you could just get a cargo carrier to put some at strategic points so that any large ship incoming has to hit one but one only, which can then be replaced by another one. (Cargo ship ready to jump in as soon as Sath destroyed)
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 23, 2007, 12:20:30 am
Will 1 meson bomb kill a Sath?

If so you could just get a cargo carrier to put some at strategic points so that any large ship incoming has to hit one but one only, which can then be replaced by another one. (Cargo ship ready to jump in as soon as Sath destroyed)

Game-wise, no, because capital ships are immune to shockwaves.

Story-wise, or the wise that actually uses physics, it would take a helluva lot of bombs to take down the sath if it took 2 to destroy the knossos.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Excalibur on August 23, 2007, 12:48:53 am
You'd think that the GTVA would have a more powerful bomb than the Meson, since the blast from the Meson is only comparable to the first nuclear bombs, isn't it?

You could put destroyers in place where the Sath would emerge......
well...it would be cheaper than losing 4 or 5...and of course no people on board.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 23, 2007, 01:02:01 am
You'd think that the GTVA would have a more powerful bomb than the Meson, since the blast from the Meson is only comparable to the first nuclear bombs, isn't it?

You could put destroyers in place where the Sath would emerge......
well...it would be cheaper than losing 4 or 5...and of course no people on board.

Actually, according to the tech room, the Helios torpedo somewhat resembles the modern day nuke, though if that were the case the shockwave would be significantly more powerful.

Of course, the easiest way to attack a sath (or any shivan destroyer) is from behind, though in the case of the sath the rear beam will be a problem.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: TrashMan on August 23, 2007, 05:23:58 am
i made a crappy mission with 10 destroyers v. a Sath and it took down 4 of them at 75% before I got bored.

Did the destroyers block the node or did the Sath come at them head-on?

Becosue the GTVA has enough firewpoer to destroy a sathanas that's jumping in BEFORE it can turn around to fire it's BFreds...
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: TrashMan on August 23, 2007, 05:28:57 am
Game-wise 3 measons are enough for a Sathanas.

Just gut a Fenris, plop a bomb inside, warp it close to a sath and kamikaze...3 of them will kill the Sath. (in essecne, turn the Fenris inot a kamikaze with the stats of a meson bomb)
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 08:22:53 am
These are good ideas for my campaign... :nervous:
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 23, 2007, 08:37:29 am
What campaign?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 23, 2007, 09:35:11 am
Campaign? Did I say campaign?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 23, 2007, 10:31:41 am
These are good ideas for my campaign... :nervous:

yup.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 24, 2007, 07:45:42 am
So?...
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 24, 2007, 10:36:06 am
So?...

So, I just proved snail wrong with the power of quotes. I rule.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Roanoke on August 24, 2007, 12:09:20 pm
I've had 5 Orion jump in next to a Sath... unfortunately they all ended up dying. They jumped in a bit behind the Sath, so one got fried by the rear beam. Followed by that, they promptly started beaming the Sath. Towards the end, they caught each other a few times. After that, the killed the Sath and were heavily damaged by the shockwave, followed by the Sath's debris, their explosions, and even more debris and more explosions! It was seriously odd--they all die, only one directly from the Sath, the other 4 from near-explosion damage and debris.

how about placing a line of damaged Orions in a row, self-destruct a Sathanas at one end and watch the chain reaction, dominoes stylee ?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 24, 2007, 01:12:10 pm
i outta try that. :lol: sounds cool
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Snail on August 24, 2007, 01:13:53 pm
Why is your post messing up my unread messages control?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 24, 2007, 01:14:37 pm
it did that to me too, weird.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 27, 2007, 12:40:41 pm
It doesn't quite work like that--its basically I put the Orions well within their beam range and when the Sathanas exploded, the explosion and debris started to take out the Orions. Unfortunately, debris is random--I've played a number of missions where the debris messes up ships I was supposed to protect.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mobius on August 27, 2007, 12:43:48 pm
Sometimes, debris of the Repulse hit the Colossus and bring the integrity down to 79-80%.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 27, 2007, 12:50:18 pm
Not exactly what I was talking about, but some debris causes problem. Enif Station is prone to debris, to start the list. Any time you want to defend something against ships bigger then bombers, debris becomes a problem that's unaddressed in 90-some% of missions. They just don't do enough to prevent debris damage, if anything is even possible!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Mobius on August 27, 2007, 12:56:12 pm
Unlike asteroids, debris are ignored by the AI. And their motion is a problem, indeed.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Agent_Koopa on August 27, 2007, 01:33:39 pm
oh...

I should stop trying to see if there is an hidden storyline then
Yeah. This (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,48476.0.html) is what happened the last time some over eager Alpha 1 attempted to defy destiny.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,44572.0.html

And, as I posted in that topic:

I say we edit the missions, not to introduce new goals, but instead to bring in the SCP Novikov, a time-traveling ship whose very purpose is to preserve the timeline by whatever means necessary.

So, when the player saves the Nebtuu, in warps the Novikov, and blows it up. It could also fix warpdrives, kill the player, etc.


It would take tons of extra work, unless the Novikov was an existing ship. You gotta admit it's a fun concept though.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 27, 2007, 01:51:13 pm
Right on! :yes:

No more missions that just won't end. No more plotholes. No more "No debriefing for missions so-and-so".
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 27, 2007, 02:44:18 pm
*goes to spawn a perfect fighter with ship-guardian and invincible tags... oh, and ultra-long-range beams for primary weapons and highest skill level*
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 27, 2007, 07:12:23 pm
Right on! :yes:

No more missions that just won't end. No more plotholes. No more "No debriefing for missions so-and-so".
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Fang_Taichou on August 27, 2007, 08:43:00 pm
Back on topic, there is one LEGIT way to kill the Iceni.  During the 1st mission of the 1st SOC loop, just let the Vasudans and asteroids rip Bosch and his puny ship to pieces.  Of course, the NTF have you executed for finding you as a GTVA spy and failing the mission...but hey Bosch is dead right?   :rolleyes:

Oh, yes this is my first post in this forum  :D
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: haloboy100 on August 27, 2007, 08:46:47 pm
Back on topic, there is one LEGIT way to kill the Iceni.  During the 1st mission of the 1st SOC loop, just let the Vasudans and asteroids rip Bosch and his puny ship to pieces.  Of course, the NTF have you executed for finding you as a GTVA spy and failing the mission...but hey Bosch is dead right?   :rolleyes:

Oh, yes this is my first post in this forum  :D

Now THAT is one way to die for a cause!

and

(http://users.tkk.fi/~lmiettun/Kuvat/HLPWELCOMEBEAM_2fast.gif)
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Bob-san on August 28, 2007, 01:58:23 pm
Too bad you can't go off and simply jump away to the Vasudan destroyer after the Iceni dies. Too bad GTVA's agenda was to let Bosch live until he proves ETAK works.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 28, 2007, 07:37:15 pm
ETAK was proven successful before the Iceni died.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: AlphaOne on August 28, 2007, 09:39:58 pm
ETAK may have proven succesfull but then again the GTVA wants both bosch and his etak device intact! At least that is what i believe!

Also who sais they did not want the Iceni as a ship? Why go after just one thing when the whole packege could be thet much more sweet!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: firzenr on August 29, 2007, 05:46:21 am
Yeah? One time in the first mission where the collosus is first seen I blew it up.

And nothing happened.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: firzenr on August 29, 2007, 05:51:49 am
if i ever make a campaign, whenever something happens, i'm just gonna make command say "YOU FRAKKING CHEATER!!!" and blow up Alpha one



 :lol:
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on August 29, 2007, 06:30:14 am
They didn't order you to disable the Iceni at any time.

I don't know if this has been done but,
:welcomepurple: firenzr!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Fang_Taichou on August 29, 2007, 03:18:57 pm
Yeah? One time in the first mission where the collosus is first seen I blew it up.

And nothing happened.

The Colossus was first deployed at Enif Station.  The NTF Iceni wasn't there, it was the NTCv Hawkwood that you saw get wasted.

Command does order you to disable the Iceni during the 2nd and 3rd missions, but you're always too late to stop it from jumping (that plus the engines are super armored).
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: wtf_cl0vvn on August 29, 2007, 11:22:38 pm
The GTVA is primitive, it will never be able to face the true Shivan power. But of course, FreeSpace is a game...and in a game, you must have a chance of victory :doubt:

Ever play Commandos?  :D

Command obviously knew something about the Iceni...why would they let it escape once, then try to blow it up later, then order you to salvage it?

Unless the rebel saboteurs on board the Colossus weren't really rebels... :nervous:


OH SHI-
 :snipe:

Wtf_cl0vvn knew too much...

Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Excalibur on August 29, 2007, 11:32:01 pm
The GTVA is primitive, it will never be able to face the true Shivan power. But of course, FreeSpace is a game...and in a game, you must have a chance of victory :doubt:

Ever play Commandos?  :D

Command obviously knew something about the Iceni...why would they let it escape once, then try to blow it up later, then order you to salvage it?

Unless the rebel saboteurs on board the Colossus weren't really rebels... :nervous:


OH SHI-
 :snipe:

Wtf_cl0vvn knew too much...





It's funny how you have that  _   thing in your name - nobody ever sees it.........

*_ turns into  :beamz:*


The GTVA Colossus has a nice little blind spot that everyone knows about - the gap between is engines.  I think you can fit a corvette in there, although when the Colossus reaches )% hull integrity, the......corvette...shortly...follows.

Another idea - the Collie as a massive shivan cargo container ;)
You could fit it in the Sath's arms, right?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: akenbosch on August 30, 2007, 01:07:04 pm
so the juggernaught that destroyed cappella was just a freighter!? this is worth defecting to the shivans!
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Fang_Taichou on August 30, 2007, 01:11:56 pm
so the juggernaught that destroyed cappella was just a freighter!? this is worth defecting to the shivans!

LOL Bosch did exactly that  :lol:  Though that would make the Colossus an armed cargo container  :D
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Excalibur on September 02, 2007, 10:54:48 pm
No more easy kills for anyone!


As for the topic statement, I wasted all my rockeyes on first try when I was 5 k's out :wtf: ;)
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Fang_Taichou on September 02, 2007, 11:52:22 pm
No more easy kills for anyone!


As for the topic statement, I wasted all my rockeyes on first try when I was 5 k's out :wtf: ;)

Eh?  Rockeyes have a max. range of 1.9 km.  You could fire at 2.5 km if your targets were bombers/fighters flying towards you (the bogies get nailed just as the missiles reach the end of their life), but firing at a target moving away from you (NTF Iceni) requires you close in to less than 1.9 km to hit.

If you had Trebuchets or Stilletto's, they would've been good to use but you didn't have access to it for various reasons (if you were in SOC full-time you might've, but the GTVI + SOC wanted the Iceni to escape for their purposes).
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Armareon on September 04, 2007, 04:06:04 am
Just for fun , I switched to Shivan super lasers and obiliterated the Iceni from five kilometers out . I was still informed that the Icenie had jumped though  :lol:

Also , I blew up the SD Ravanna twice in a row . ;)
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: colecampbell666 on September 04, 2007, 07:19:10 am
Didn't you already say this in another topic?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Fang_Taichou on September 04, 2007, 11:44:49 am
Just for fun , I switched to Shivan super lasers and obiliterated the Iceni from five kilometers out . I was still informed that the Icenie had jumped though  :lol:

Also , I blew up the SD Ravanna twice in a row . ;)

Um, Shivan super lasers aren't really that cool  :rolleyes: they just have 30 km range (which is actually the range where some FS2 beams cut out; others extend to infinity, but active targetting for AI purposes is far more limited), but they are slow enough to be dodged by fighters.  What you need is the BFRed, that thing hits almost instantly and has true beam graphics (though when fired from a fighter/bomber your screen is totally blinding from the particle glow unless you switch to external view and zoom out a lot).

Oh and, what SD Ravana?  The one you encounter during the Lysander's destruction?
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Agent_Koopa on September 04, 2007, 10:02:08 pm
But the BFRed won't scratch friendly ships, whereas the Shivan Super Laser, not being technically a beam, will blow up a Hatshepsut in a few shots.
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: MercFox1 on September 04, 2007, 10:05:29 pm
...will blow up a Hatshepsut in a few shots.

The REAL reason Command lost contact with the Psamtik...
Title: Re: Stop the NTF Iceni
Post by: Excalibur on September 04, 2007, 10:25:31 pm
I find it silly that something can do that - you'd think it would just blow a small hole in the ship.

The thing is more powerful than BFReds, isn't it?