Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on January 03, 2008, 05:50:20 am
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That's the approximate US debt as of now, no doubt it will go up by a rediculous number as I am typing this.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
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The current administration knows they're going to lose to the Dems this year, so they're just digging the hole a little deeper so they can play the "lower taxes" card in 2012 after the Democrats raise them to pay this **** off.
Crafty buggers! :p
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When do you guys think it will reach 10 trillion? 2008? 2009?
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When do you guys think it will reach 10 trillion? 2008? 2009?
Probably when Bush steps down as president.
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its not just the government who flushes the money down the toilet. its mr and mrs joe blow credit card users.
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Already gone up another 53 million. That's scary.
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(http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/history.gif)
The overall history. It looks an aweful lot like an exponential curve. The only question is when does Y = infinity?
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Interesting. Dramatic rises at the end of World War 2 and the end of the Cold War, then it seems to start to level off, and then it increases by 50% during the Bush administration.
Are these valid connections?
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It leveled off between 95 and 2000 because clinton balanced the budget in those years. It kept going up (though not as fast as it is now) until that point.
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I always find it strange that the Republicans are always talking about how the Democrats spend so much money and how the Republicans are fiscally conservative but they end up spending more money. Its like the Liberals and the Conservatives up here...the Liberals were the ones that finally balanced the budget and paid down the debt after the Conservatives nearly spent us into a hole.
Isn't there a happy medium...fiscally conservative and socially centered?
But really...how do you pay down 9 trillion dollars in debt. Thats a huge hole to be in...if any of the nations buying up the debt wanted it back it'd...be....very bad.
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Well, just looking at it from mathmatical POV, at somepoint it will hit a wall because an exponential curve has a limit.
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Hey, according to the thread title, it's gone down about 25 billion dollars! Or equally as likely, I'm misreading it and it went up almost 100 trillion dollars.
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From the website:
Q: I looked at the Debt Clock yesterday and I think it showed a higher value than it does today. Is the Debt going down?
A: Unfortunately, no. On average, the Debt is always rising but there are some day to day fluctuations which can cause the debt to actually go down for a day or two. The long term averages however, show that the Debt just keeps getting higher and higher.
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From the website:
Q: I looked at the Debt Clock yesterday and I think it showed a higher value than it does today. Is the Debt going down?
A: Unfortunately, no. On average, the Debt is always rising but there are some day to day fluctuations which can cause the debt to actually go down for a day or two. The long term averages however, show that the Debt just keeps getting higher and higher.
That's like saying there wasn't 50,000 US casualties in Vietnam because there was 58,000. Well no, not really, but I never said that it was a long term trend. I simply stated that the debt went down 25 billion dollars.
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That's like saying there wasn't 50,000 US casualties in Vietnam because there was 58,000.
So what you're saying is that in Vietnam we had dead people coming back to life?
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No. 58,000 > 50,000. 58,000 - 8,000 = 50,000, so there were at least 50,000 casualties, plus the 8,000 equals 58,000.
GAH!!!
In simpler terms: You have 10 apples. Do you have 7 apples?
EDIT: You have 10 apples. Susie wants 7 apples. Can you give her 7 apples? If you can, you must have 7 apples. If you can't, you don't have 7 apples. Let's count to 10 to see if we have 7 apples: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. Yes, we do have seven apples. You give Susie 7 apples.
Just because there seemed to still be some confusion on the issue...
EDIT2: Now there's too many analogies!!! :shaking:
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I think the appropriate analogy is "one step forward, two steps back".
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I think the appropriate analogy is "one step forward, two steps back".
i understand that one.
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Well, just looking at it from mathmatical POV, at somepoint it will hit a wall because an exponential curve has a limit.
You fail at math.
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Ok, care to explain?
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Ok, care to explain?
They're infinite?
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There you see it. U.S.A. is going down the drain.
<patriotism> I dream of a world, governed by justice and tolerance, governed by Switzerland. <patriotism/>
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and financed by stolen Jewish gold? :p
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You were all so stupid to store your money in swiss bank accounts... soon it will be all ours. Mwuhaha.
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Ok, care to explain?
They're infinite?
Yeah, but when y=infinity it stops progressing on the x axis and reaches it's limit, where it will forever get closer and closer to it but not actually reach it, hence the wall.
And for the record I got an A in high school calculus. :p
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Ok, care to explain?
They're infinite?
Yeah, but when y=infinity it stops progressing on the x axis and reaches it's limit, where it will forever get closer and closer to it but not actually reach it, hence the wall.
And for the record I got an A in high school calculus. :p
Y = infinite when X = infinite... :blah:
Exponencial functions don't have asymptotes.
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I stand corrected. Been a very long time since high school.
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lol
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I think the appropriate analogy is "one step forward, two steps back".
i understand that one.
quite an achievement
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Which is why i've gone so far, only to stumble back even more...
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Every country has a huge debt. They way modern economy works that debt never gets played off becoause other countries don't pay theirs.
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Which makes you wonder why they don't just stick all the info in a computer and get it to cancel large chunks of the debt out so that they're not paying interest on it. :D
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Maybe they need to stop spending billions attacking other countries... ...
According to that site:
"As you can see, the largest slice of the pie, over 40%, is owed to the Federal Reserve Bank "
SIGH @ Federal Reserve.
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IIRC modern currency's value itself is based off of debt, is it not?
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IIRC modern currency's value itself is based off of debt, is it not?
It is. The Federal Reserve charges interest on the money it loans to the government though thats why, apparently, debt owed to the Fed takes up the largest amount of total debt
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thats why the Canadian dollar is now stronger then the American one. And it still is IIRC
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Ok, care to explain?
They're infinite?
Yeah, but when y=infinity it stops progressing on the x axis and reaches it's limit, where it will forever get closer and closer to it but not actually reach it, hence the wall.
And for the record I got an A in high school calculus. :p
Those are the basics...only n00bs ignore them. Ah..."infinity"...they use my symbol to represent it ;7
I like Maths mostly because of Mobius, really :lol:
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IIRC modern currency's value itself is based off of debt, is it not?
It is. The Federal Reserve charges interest on the money it loans to the government though thats why, apparently, debt owed to the Fed takes up the largest amount of total debt
Which is also where your income taxes are going.
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Which is also where your income taxes are going.
Despite being British, thats why I like Ron Paul (mostly). Its a shame he's a Creationist and (apparently) against Seperation of Church and State. Sigh. But then I dont get to vote in a US election anyway.
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I just did some quick calculations and it's climbing at a rate of $16,108.10 a second, that's roughly enough money to put me through collage.
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if we cancel all debt then big countrys wont be able to f*** small countries over, and if we cant f*** small countries then the world bank goes bust and so does the whole western commerce driven culture , mmmmmmmm
so debt = commerce=debt =f***ed
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if we canceled all debt then that would include our debt and the intrest on said debt could go into even more military spending which in turn
cwould be spent on invading other weaker countries.
so no.
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The only reason a bank can loan you money is because they have your promise that you will pay it back. If the banks cancelled the debts owed to them they'd have nothing to base your money on.
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*Attempts to hate modern economy to death*
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*Attempts to hate modern economy to death*
you don't want to even know how ****ed up some other systems are
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its all just part of the downward spiral
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Wasn't there a documentary called "Money as debt" about that?
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Wasn't there a documentary called "Money as debt" about that?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279
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The only reason a bank can loan you money is because they have your promise that you will pay it back. If the banks cancelled the debts owed to them they'd have nothing to base your money on.
I didn't say cancel the debts. I said cancel out the debts. If US owes China, China owes Japan and Japan owes the US at least one of those countries doesn't actually have a debt.
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I didn't say cancel the debts. I said cancel out the debts. If US owes China, China owes Japan and Japan owes the US at least one of those countries doesn't actually have a debt.
Ah ok. Well I dont know if that would make all that much difference. As you can see from the pie chart on the site (assuming its accurate) most of the money is owed to the Federal Reserve. And the government keep spending money on their war on terror, so that means borrowing more money from the Fed and so the money it loans to the government at interest keeps going up and up on top of the usual debt increase.
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Don't know if it would help the US but someone has to be better off that way. :D
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My dad told me that the civilian debt is even higher.
Hypothecs not being payed, Credit Card bills and so on.
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*starts bleeding from the nose and collapses*
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So bassicly, judging by the figure from page 1. Everyone who votes for lower taxes is a Bleep?
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So bassicly, judging by the figure from page 1. Everyone who votes for lower taxes is a Bleep?
whats bleep precious
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All I know is that the US government needs to spend $100,000 of that on giving me a raise, I mean is that that much to ask for?
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The solution to U.S. debt is simple, and it's what the Bush admin. has been doing since it was in power.
The U.S. just has to overspend all hell on military, then when it's crunch time give a giant "F*** YOU!" to the people of which it has to pay debt to :beamz:
Oh, and I fail at economics. :D
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So bassicly, judging by the figure from page 1. Everyone who votes for lower taxes is a Bleep?
whats bleep precious
I meant Stupid Moron, but I didn't want to swear.
Yet.
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I just did some quick calculations and it's climbing at a rate of $16,108.10 a second, that's roughly enough money to put me through collage.
You could ask them to give you that much, it wouldn't matter much anyway!
(Use that as an argument and you might become an international terorist, but oké).
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Congress will fix this problem with a decree that states that the Federal Government cannot legally be in debt, therefore any 'debt' previously associated with the US government is void.