Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Mobius on June 22, 2008, 09:12:04 am
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Before you ask, this is intended to be a serious topic.
I'm honest: although FS2 is a great and unmatched game I don't think it's the best under all points of view. I love its moddability but there are many things that don't go well...
- Low quality cutscenes, with errors. I remember games like the Colony Wars series which had better cutscenes.
- Canon inconsistencies, mostly related with FS1. I refer to jump nodes that disappear in FS2 and such things.
- Simple missions. Many missions are the way too simple and overall the game lacks a few interesting features like landing and take off cutscenes.
- Bad weapon settings. Many Shivan craft fire GTVA armaments, which his incredibly weird.
- Weird carrier system. Although there's canon evidence of the mass production of spacecraft the number of destroyers and space stations is very limited so most craft simply don't have a base.
- Bad physics. They're pretty realistic under many points of view but lack in "coolness": unlike many other games dogfights against the AI aren't exciting unless you mod table entries and there's no stuff like die hard enemy aces during the campaign.
- Poor info. Informations about environment and societies are very poor while they should have been better.
- No characters. I don't like invincible and chatty characters but analyzing missions with Snipes led me to think that the game could have been improved with a few characters(who die or are transfered).
- Voice acting. There are always the same actors, that's something that doesn't happen in most games.
- Head ani systems. There are no specific ones and, more importantly, their number is kind of limited.
Maybe there's something else I forgot... :nervous:
Discuss. :nod: :)
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Option 2, for the reasons you cited.
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I liked FS1 better... :nervous:
Option 2.
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In my opinion FS2 is indeed the best space sim we have seen yet. It's almost perfect imo, but almost. There are still a few things to be improved.
My 2 cents:
Before you ask, this is intended to be a serious topic.
- Low quality cutscenes, with errors. I remember games like the Colony Wars series which had better cutscenes.
Quality... yeah, that's not so important to me. What annoys me more are stupid inconsistencies, like that super GTVA fleet in the outro, Lucy's beams, technical specs of the Colossus, etc.
inconsistencies- Canon inconsistencies, mostly related with FS1. I refer to jump nodes that disappear in FS2 and such things.
Agreed.
- Simple missions. Many missions are the way too simple and overall the game lacks a few interesting features like landing and take off cutscenes.
That'd fit more for FS1 if you ask me. The FS2 main campaign is nearly perfect, except of a few bad excamples (Slying Ravana). Features like take off cutscenes are nothing but annoying to me. That's why I hate Freelancer! :mad:
- Bad weapon settings. Many Shivan craft fire GTVA armaments, which his incredibly weird.
- Weird carrier system. Although there's canon evidence of the mass production of spacecraft the number of destroyers and space stations is very limited so most craft simply don't have a base.
My words.
- Bad physics. They're pretty realistic under many points of view but lack in "coolness": unlike many other games dogfights against the AI aren't exciting unless you mod table entries and there's no stuff like die hard enemy aces during the campaign.
The flight feeling is not so good, but the rest is okay. I don't think that die hard enemy aces are important neither "realistic" in a game like FS.
- Poor info. Informations about environment and societies are very poor while they should have been better.
On the one hand this might be right, on the other hand it gives much more free room to campaign designers (like me ;) ) for their own ideas.
- No characters. I don't like invincible and chatty characters but analyzing missions with Snipes led me to think that the game could have been improved with a few characters(who die or are transfered).
That's the most (and only real) significant point of critisism I can see in FS2.
- Voice acting. There are always the same actors, that's something that doesn't happen in most games.
- Head ani systems. There are no specific ones and, more importantly, their number is kind of limited.
Not big problems for me. Maybe they would've added more .anis if they had had more money/time. Number of voice actors might be limited, but on the other hand some of them were quite famous (Loggia, Cox)
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Oi. Where's Snuffleupagus?
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Oi. Where's Snuffleupagus?
It used to be automatic, so people forget to put it in I guess.
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I liked FS1 better... :nervous:
Option 2.
The Darkness Rising era
:rolleyes:
I hated the cutscenes in FS2. even when i was on the last mission, the thing were you cn watch cutscenes in the tech room only had the intro cutscenes. and when the cutscene got to the part with the Herc dogfight, my whole comp would freeze and i would have to cut the power...
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- Simple missions. Many missions are the way too simple and overall the game lacks a few interesting features like landing and take off cutscenes.
It's sad... you can not do anything else that blowing **** up... so gets kind of "ohhh! i've seen this before!!".
(not saying playng chest in freespace but... dunno maybe a mining mission (using some kind of modiffied transport) or even positioning in a cap ship using a turret to beam all out! that would be fantastic change of air to the game itself.
- Bad physics. They're pretty realistic under many points of view but lack in "coolness": unlike many other games dogfights against the AI aren't exciting unless you mod table entries and there's no stuff like die hard enemy aces during the campaign.
Totally agreed in this one... pretty much anoying the fact that the gtva wings, being so inferior to shivan armadas.. can actually destroy 5-6-7-8 wings of fighters and bombers...
I guess it's been always like this becouse killing a freaking hard shivan makes the game too complex... but I've always dreamed of a realistic campaign.. where a single wind SHOULD only fight against another wing... and if outnumberd.. well then stand ground and die or flee...that's the way space combats should be like at my point of view.
Voted 3
Rot
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Option 5.
Freespace 2 is one of the best games ever but i personally liked the Wing Commander Series a tad better. ( :nervous: )
However Freespace itself may not be a perfect game but the SCP is imo the best project alive in the internet.
Just look at all those great campaigns and TCs.
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Guys I know the SCP is fantastic but I mentioned things that are in need of discussion. Preferring FS1/Silent Threat over FS2 is not on topic. If you're here you obviously like FS and know FSO: I want to discuss some aspects of retail FS1 and FS2, no SCP.
Another thing I forgot: the Ancients. Poor informations about them in FS1 and nothing in FS2 that leads to major conclusions. That's why debates about the dimensions of their fleets are still open.
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Another thing I forgot: the Ancients. Poor informations about them in FS1 and nothing in FS2 that leads to major conclusions. That's why debates about the dimensions of their fleets are still open.
No, I think I won that argument several times. :rolleyes:
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You won absolutely nothing.
There weren't enough canon evidences to prove me wrong, same thing for you. That subject led me to create this topic.
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There weren't enough canon evidences to prove me wrong, same thing for you. That subject led me to create this topic.
I won absolutely nothing because you degenerated the thread into lololol idiot lololol.
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There weren't enough canon evidences to prove me wrong, same thing for you. That subject led me to create this topic.
I won absolutely nothing because you degenerated the thread into lololol idiot lololol.
And while observing the heated debate, I lolled at that point.
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Can we NOT get into this again?!?
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Can we NOT get into this again?!?
Yeah I would rather not.
Anyway, I haven't seen any other space sims that are as good as FS.
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It's sad... you can not do anything else that blowing **** up... so gets kind of "ohhh! i've seen this before!!".
(not saying playng chest in freespace but... dunno maybe a mining mission (using some kind of modiffied transport) or even positioning in a cap ship using a turret to beam all out! that would be fantastic change of air to the game itself.
I remember Colony Wars, in which the player had to use a tractor gun to move energy cells, capture fighters, save ships that are going to collide with something. There even was a mission in which the only way to destroy an installation was to shoot at nearby asteroids and make them collide with it...
...I liked those parts because the player is supposed to use his brain, not only his fighting ability. That doesn't happen in FS.
I don't like "prophetic" briefings, either. They say EXACTLY what happens during the mission. I knew the Plato would have been destroyed when escape pods were mentioned in the briefing.
I don't tend to create prophetic briefings: the player shouldn't know what is going to happen until that particular event occurs.
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I agree on prophetic briefings, but some amount of foreshadowing (though in a less obvious manner) is good IMO.
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Another thing:
Bombers aren't bombers, they're just slightly oversized fighters armed with torpedoes. They're minimally defended with turrets and flying/escorting them is not as interesting/exciting as flying/escorting WWII bombers.
There's only one exception, IMO: the SB Seraphim. It's closer to ideal bomber specifications for me.
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Well some people enjoy flying bombers. It can be quite entertaining blowing up Orions all by yourself, really.
And IMO I wouldn't like to fly the Seraphim. It's slow and doesn't have any afterburners. The ideal bomber is the Artemis IMO.
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I would enjoy flying bombers, yeah, but more realistic ones. I mean, why do bombers carry torpedoes while fighters(except for the Myrmidon) can't? They're similar and can carry, if needed, the same armaments(Hornets anyone)?
I said that the Seraphim is close to the ideal bomber. A bomber SHOULDN'T have afterburners. The craft you want to fly is a strike fighter of some sort, not a "bomber".
You don't get it, Snail. I'm discussing bad aspects of FS, which is politically correct.
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It's what bomber should be in your opinion, nobody HAS to agree with you.
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It's what a bomber IS in RL.
Those aren't bombers, are slightly oversized fighters with torpedoes.
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It's what a bomber IS in RL.
Those aren't bombers, are slightly oversized fighters with torpedoes.
What's more important: gameplay or realism?
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Fun. So yeah, gameplay.
Mobius: The new TrashMan.
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ad hominem something something something...
But anyway, FS is the best space sim but it's not perfect.
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What's more important: gameplay or realism?
Gameplay, but I don't get your point: as far as I know the Seraphim doesn't give problems :rolleyes:
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Has anyone made real bombers?
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Gameplay, but I don't get your point: as far as I know the Seraphim doesn't give problems :rolleyes:
Gameplay in the sense that it is NOT good gameplay to fly a slow brick with guns. At least the Ursa could maneuver within reason and had afterburners. The Seraphim is slow and would be like flying a cruiser.
Has anyone made real bombers?
What, you mean ultra slow bombers or modern-day bombers?
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Essentially, yes.
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Snail: That'd be experiencing something new and particular, something different from flying fighters. Obviously, defense turrets should be improved: their number is too low and their effectiveness is questionable.
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Mobius: The new TrashMan.
New? I would have just said "the other Trashman.
But indeed. I find flying FS bombers to be fun. They're at least a tad bit slower and more sluggish than fighters, and you can get the damaging-big-ships feeling from it. For those who want more realistic and ultra-complex ****, there are always the "products" made by Derek Smart, PhD.
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Snail: That'd be experiencing something new and particular, something different from flying fighters. Obviously, defense turrets should be improved: their number is too low and their effectiveness is questionable.
Fly a cruiser, then.
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Yeah, because the Seraphim is like a cruiser... :doubt:
Back on topic, the FS bomber system kills the "new-experience" factor that could've made the game better, much better.
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Yeah, because the Seraphim is like a cruiser... :doubt:
What the hell do you want? Something between a cruiser and a fighter, but not a bomber?
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Ummm....in my opinion it is the best space sim game, as I have played ton of other space sim games (Star Wars, Colony Wars etc. etc. even some of Derek Smarts games), and I think this is the best. Of course, FreeSpace does have it's own flaws and pros, but hey, compare this to other space sim games, this one is superb.
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I personally want nothing. I'm analyzing certain FS-related things that don't go well in terms of game experience and originality.
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FreeSpace 2 was one of the best space sim not because it innovated but simply because it picked up what other space sims had done and improved upon it. The interface was streamlined to perfection, the storyline while generic was good enough to hook this comunity for... what, 10 years and it's graphics while somewhat outdated nowadays are still reasonably good, especially for a game that's 10 years old.
The game was made to reflect the "life" of a pilot in the grand scheme of things. Hence the lack of small characters. Hence the lack of uber enemies only the player can fight (in the sense that they don't send only you to destroy a Sathanas or something). Some people try to grasp straws thinking of the player as some pilot that came out of hero academy or thinking that the game is related to Freelancer or Wing Commander in that way.
Perhaps the game could be improved, but not in 1998 when it was first released. When it came out, it was without a doubt the best space sim ever made.
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The storyline has been hooking the community because FS' moddability led to things like the SCP(that's what people talk about nowadays).
Well Colony Wars 2 and 3 came after FreeSpace 2, not even FreeSpace 1, and beat FS under many points of view.
I read articles. I know that :v: doesn't like take offs and small carriers but their choices resulted in game handicaps.
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The storyline has been hooking the community because FS' moddability led to things like the SCP(that's what people talk about nowadays).
The source code was released in 2001, the game was released in 1998. People come to this place because they've heard of FreeSpace, not of SCP. Besides, the SCP has nothing to do with the story.
Well Colony Wars 2 and 3 came after FreeSpace 2, not even FreeSpace 1, and beat FS under many points of view.
What points of view?
I read articles. I know that :v: doesn't like take offs and small carriers but their choices resulted in game handicaps.
Like what?
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If Colony Wars was so much better than FreeSpace, exactly why are we all still playing it?
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1) I mean that most discussions are about the SCP, custom campaigns and custom mods. Had the storyline been discussed, only, you wouldn't have said the same thing.
2) Colony Wars owns FreeSpace in mission originality, variety of weapons, races and ships and translation. All of my CWs are voice acted in Italian. To be honest I think :v: "took something in exchange" from Colony Wars: CW came before and in both series Sol is cut off from the rest of colonized space.
3) Simple: missions are quite simple and lack that kind of improvement. Many other series base their success on such features.
Snail: FreeSpace owns Colony Wars because it's moddable and has multiplayer missions/campaigns. CW kind of died because it didn't have these things to relying on, it was a PlayStation series.
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Ah, it was PlayStation...
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Had FS been for PS it would have died in the same, exact way.
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To be honest I think :v: "took something in exchange" from Colony Wars: CW came before and in both series Sol is cut off from the rest of colonized space.
Actually, FreeSpace borrowed quite a few things. It is a known fact. In addition to Sol being cut off, the Shivans bear some (slight) resemblance to the Nephilim in Wing Commander: Prophecy.
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Had FS been for PS it would have died in the same, exact way.
Yeah, console games die easy, moddable games Die Hard™.
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Actually, FreeSpace borrowed quite a few things. It is a known fact. In addition to Sol being cut off, the Shivans bear some (slight) resemblance to the Nephilim in Wing Commander: Prophecy.
Besides CW, where might the "Sol cut off" thing come from?
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StarFlight has it and it's from 1986. And I highly doubt it was the first. Being cut off from one's home is not exactly a revolutionary literary concept.
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To be honest I think :v: "took something in exchange" from Colony Wars: CW came before and in both series Sol is cut off from the rest of colonized space.
Actually, FreeSpace borrowed quite a few things. It is a known fact. In addition to Sol being cut off, the Shivans bear some (slight) resemblance to the Nephilim in Wing Commander: Prophecy.
You mean, aside from the SB Nephilims?
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You're right, but causing the collapse of a node isn't quite common...
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To be honest I think :v: "took something in exchange" from Colony Wars: CW came before and in both series Sol is cut off from the rest of colonized space.
Actually, FreeSpace borrowed quite a few things. It is a known fact. In addition to Sol being cut off, the Shivans bear some (slight) resemblance to the Nephilim in Wing Commander: Prophecy.
You mean, aside from the SB Nephilims?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Prophecy
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You're right, but causing the collapse of a node isn't quite common...
See just about every space related series with some kind of "node" linking systems and you'll see it's more common than you think.
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So how many other examples of a system called Sol separated from the rest because of the collapse of a jump node you know?
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So how many other examples of a system called Sol separated from the rest because of the collapse of a jump node you know?
If you want to get specific about it, FreeSpace is the only game where a system called Sol was seperated from the rest because of the collapse of a jump node caused by a race called the Shivans. See, specificity is not exactly a good thing.
Moving on, there is X series where the jump gate to earth was cut off. There are a number of examples in Stargate of... well... stargates being destroyed. Etc...
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Weren't the dudes in EVE Online cut off from Sol as well?
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Like I said, it's not exactly something uncommon.
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Getting separated from Sol is generic. If it happens due to the forced collapse of a jump node, well...
The funny thing is that the node collapse in CW1 and, in CW2, the Sol Navy reopens it to fight the Leagueof the Free Worlds...it reminds Inferno. I guess FS3 plans involved something similar.
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We'll never know so i never worry about it.
Original topic>
I like the FreeSpace engine and Fred has definitely contributed to the games longevity. I like Wing Commander better for one reason IMMERSION. The whole landing-taking off from your carrier makes it more than just a target or an escort. It makes it your home. Also the choice of wingmen each their own character added to the immersion factor for me. If the WC games had FreeSpaces noddability and ease of campaign production. It would be as big.
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Nice comment :yes:
:v:'s choices about the subject didn't turn to be effective.
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The whole landing-taking off from your carrier makes it more than just a target or an escort. It makes it your home.
You weren't pissed off when the Lucifer destroyed the Galatea?
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Meh, I was expecting it to happen.
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Yeah i was a bit "NOOOOOOO!" but not as miffed as the start of WC2 when the tigers claw was taken out. Or in WC3 when the Behemoth (at the time humanities last ditch chance to survive) went down. FreeSpace is good but i like wing commander more for different reasons.
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Colony wars trilogy (well 1&2) and FreeSpace are my favourite Space sims...Now whether they are the best, i dont know. Its reletive. In terms of characterization, FS is pretty poor. In terms of Longevity, the simple fact that this forum existd for us to have this debate proves it's the best in that field. YAY FRED! <-Toast song reference
there are others i enjoy like star wars starfighter and Jedi starfighter...Hey, ive never owned a Nintendo system beyond a gameboy color or Gameboy Advanced, so i never played any of the X-Wing series
Even though ithey're not Space sims I also love Dropship: United Peace Force and Battle Engine Aquila. Like FS, they are great but little known games
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The toast song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TahLg-KMrm4
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Dropship UPF that was fun. But too short. . A good first for the ps2. I'm a big fan of the x-wing series. Tie-Fighter and alliance especially. . But as stated for other games, because of the immersion. Sorry to keep of about this one factor, FreeSpace does have some, just not as much as others out there from years gone by.
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I just want to add that all the complaints about the weakness of the Shivans (regarding the favorable odds for a single wing of GTVA craft against two or three wings of Shivans) can be addressed by playing on Insane.
It's really painful.
I know that all the veterans know this, of course.
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:yes: Far too well.
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Same here, I'm only still alive after stealing all the Spice on Arakis and gazing into the eye of harmony to gain a 13-incarnation life cycle
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I just want to add that all the complaints about the weakness of the Shivans (regarding the favorable odds for a single wing of GTVA craft against two or three wings of Shivans) can be addressed by playing on Insane.
It's really painful.
I know that all the veterans know this, of course.
yeah but the problem is that cap ships tend to destroy your fighter in a sec on that difficulty level (which is great) , and in most missions you are supposed to interact some way or another with this vessels so... mission pritty much ends at that point :S, well unleast for me, not that good piloting im afraid to say..
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I just want to add that all the complaints about the weakness of the Shivans (regarding the favorable odds for a single wing of GTVA craft against two or three wings of Shivans) can be addressed by playing on Insane.
It's really painful.
I know that all the veterans know this, of course.
Well, the AI cheats on insane. They have the player permanently locked in their targeting, so they never miss... :S
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Not if you swerve fast enough.
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Well, I don't want to go so spastic I snap joystick off or something... So I stay on easier difficulties.
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I mainly play on medium-hard.
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wasn't possible to modify the difficulty levelof individual models from the tables?? I read about that in some tutorial.. that should prove more effective than playing on insane, Sorry if that seems too basic, Im not that into modding yet.
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Change the AI class in FRED.
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- Canon inconsistencies, mostly related with FS1. I refer to jump nodes that disappear in FS2 and such things.
Those jump nodes dissapeared in Freespace 1 IIRC.
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- Canon inconsistencies, mostly related with FS1. I refer to jump nodes that disappear in FS2 and such things.
Those jump nodes dissapeared in Freespace 1 IIRC.
It was implied in FS1 that all the nodes to and from Sol were nullified (or destabilized) by the destruction of the Lucifer. And there were several of them, at least three. But in FS2, all they do is talk about the node leading to and from Sol. Specifically being located between Sol and Delta Serpentis. Just one. No more.
-> Inconsistency.
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It was implied in FS1 that all the nodes to and from Sol were nullified (or destabilized) by the destruction of the Lucifer. And there were several of them, at least three. But in FS2, all they do is talk about the node leading to and from Sol. Specifically being located between Sol and Delta Serpentis. Just one. No more.
-> Inconsistency.
That's not the only one. Check the Wiki, you can find MANY jump node inconsistencies.
To be honest FS is the first series with inconsistencies I've ever played.
I just want to add that all the complaints about the weakness of the Shivans (regarding the favorable odds for a single wing of GTVA craft against two or three wings of Shivans) can be addressed by playing on Insane.
It's really painful.
I know that all the veterans know this, of course.
Everything is hard at Insane and, more importantly, not overyone plays FS at that difficulty level. As result most people think of the Shivans as easy targets.
The Shivans use GTVA secondaries, that's another big problem. I had to wait for Inferno to see something reasonable.
Colony wars trilogy (well 1&2) and FreeSpace are my favourite Space sims...Now whether they are the best, i dont know. Its reletive. In terms of characterization, FS is pretty poor. In terms of Longevity, the simple fact that this forum existd for us to have this debate proves it's the best in that field. YAY FRED!
What do you mean by longevity? FS still has a florid community thanks to its moddability, not because people have been simply playing the main FS campaigns for years.
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Longevity = Well, Even after 10 years Since FS1 came out, people are still playing it or the port. and It is still attacting new players...I myself didnt start playing till 3 years ago.
The other stuff
Well, would we really be here if FRED hadnt been included with the game?
I mean you can only play through the main campaign of the game so many times before it gets boring...
If both FS1 + 2 had been just the mission that were designed by :v: then they probally would have died after about a year - think colony wars trilogy.
But including the mission editor that the guys at :v: used to make the game added years on to it as we are not limited to just the core :v: missions - we can design and make whole stories ourselfs
Also adding to the longevity factor is the reletive easiness of being able to edit or change the existing ships/music/weapon/etc
and finally the release of the Source Code to the FS community and the resulting SCP has added years to the game now that we can do at least 100 more things when making missions than we could before
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That's "Game" longevity, not "Missions" longevity.
There are many games that give players the possibility of creating stuff but these games oftentimes die like the others, it depends on the communities...in FS' case it was the community to achieve important objectives. The game helped but the community is the true responsible.
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Not the ones i played. Untill recently, i was limited to consols - you cant edit Colony Wars Trilogy, Battle Engine Aquilla, Dropship UPF or 90%of the rest of the games i own. The only 2 games that i own that were anythinh near editable were Worms and Worms Armageddon
That's "Game" longevity, not "Missions" longevity.
I never said mission longevity.
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Yep, you didn't specify it, that's why I had to explain.
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Maybe i should have specified...I knew what i was talking about
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Not the ones i played. Untill recently, i was limited to consols - you cant edit Colony Wars Trilogy, Battle Engine Aquilla, Dropship UPF or 90%of the rest of the games i own. The only 2 games that i own that were anythinh near editable were Worms and Worms Armageddon
Funny thing that I've managed to mod 80-90% of the games I own. Probably because I shun consoles for being unmoddable.
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Wing commander was the best space-sim ever. Origin cocked up when they killed off the Kilrathi, revised Blair, killed off Tolwyn and removed conversation choices. That's why they went bust :nod:
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:necro:
:bump::bump::bump::bump::bump:
I actually agree with most of Mobius' original points
In fact all the other fighter sims i own had better characters than the FS games with one exception:
Colony Wars 1 - It had only 3 noteworthy characters
*The Father - only apears in one cutscene and mentioned in half-a-dozen others. According to the official website, the Father and the General from Red Sun are the same character...
*The Tzar - never seen ever.
*The Narrator - Never seen - implied to be the player character
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The entire point of FS2's lack of characters is to reinforce the feeling that the player is just a cog in the war machine. V even said as much. Combined with the high wingman casualty rate, it creates this bleak, clinical feel -- as if you, the player, sit down in the ready room before every mission and see only strangers, then fly missions to protect warships that will be sacrificed in an instant by Command if the tactical situation demands it.
Besides, the ships themselves almost become characters.
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Has anyone made real bombers?
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTTB_Armageddon :yes:
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sorry i cant vote on this poll, their either bias to one side or the other, i don't see a middle choice. however if i had to give my view, the jury is still out on freespace 2 as this new game Dark horizon is looming, once that is done i will give my view.
in war time choices have to be made that never sit too well with either one side or the other, to say it's bleak for the sake of choice is irrelevant you have no choice when your on the battlefield, nor can you quit when you signed on for the armed forces in the first place to do so would only dwindle numbers when it came to a critical moment that could either swing the war in yours or against your favor. and thats what i like about this game, i dont focus on what anyone wants, i just focus on finding a weakness in the enemy and exploit it, like you should be doing :).
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Uh, what? Can you clarify your general statement and whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with something in particular?
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how can i clarify anything without any real oppositon to the game? thats only going to come in the form of this new game and without any opposition i can not make a determination. but if you want my opinion of fs2, i can do that.
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I tend to agree with Colonel Dekker about the lack of immersion. Although I wasn't expecting anything like you see in Wing Commander, I found the cold feel of the briefings just added to the lack of atmosphere. Remember the first mission of FS1 in which the guy briefing you mentions a Lt. Harbison as being your wingman? And the banter that follows in the mission? I would've liked to have heard more like that throughout both games.
I also think that because you don't take on the role of a character with any depth (e.g. Blair in WC or Ace Azzameen in X-Wing: Alliance) that also means less immersion. But I don't think it's always necessary to have the player take on the role of a character with some background behind him/her to make it feel more "real." BtRL is a step in the right direction with the pilot chatter and the briefings. :yes:
I could go on about the ship speed, unrealistic collision damage, lack of Newtonian space physics, the plot and the FS universe's inconsistencies between FS1 and 2 blah blah blah but I won't as I'm sure it's been mentioned here already. FS just has something going for it that still makes me play it today. I do get the feeling though that I might see a new space combat sim that'll eclipse it and make me forget about FS altogether (The Tomorrow War, X3: Terran Conflict or whatever it's called...). I hope not though.
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I always found FS to be pretty immersive even though your character is sort of ambiguous. I half suppose that it doesn't seem "immersive" to many now because they've been playing it for the past 10 years and have been busily dissecting every aspect of it in the meantime. <_<
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I tend to agree with Colonel Dekker about the lack of immersion. Although I wasn't expecting anything like you see in Wing Commander, I found the cold feel of the briefings just added to the lack of atmosphere. Remember the first mission of FS1 in which the guy briefing you mentions a Lt. Harbison as being your wingman? And the banter that follows in the mission? I would've liked to have heard more like that throughout both games.
I also think that because you don't take on the role of a character with any depth (e.g. Blair in WC or Ace Azzameen in X-Wing: Alliance) that also means less immersion. But I don't think it's always necessary to have the player take on the role of a character with some background behind him/her to make it feel more "real." BtRL is a step in the right direction with the pilot chatter and the briefings. :yes:
I could go on about the ship speed, unrealistic collision damage, lack of Newtonian space physics, the plot and the FS universe's inconsistencies between FS1 and 2 blah blah blah but I won't as I'm sure it's been mentioned here already. FS just has something going for it that still makes me play it today. I do get the feeling though that I might see a new space combat sim that'll eclipse it and make me forget about FS altogether (The Tomorrow War, X3: Terran Conflict or whatever it's called...). I hope not though.
I will say that I found the cold atmosphere of the briefings to be one of the most atmospheric and immersive things about the game -- so perhaps it's a matter of perception and taste! Even the art design contributed to that feeling.
Are you sure it's not that very atmosphere which provides the 'something going for it' you describe? Or perhaps it's the game's level of polish?
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I always found FS to be pretty immersive even though your character is sort of ambiguous. I half suppose that it doesn't seem "immersive" to many now because they've been playing it for the past 10 years and have been busily dissecting every aspect of it in the meantime. <_<
I will say that I found the cold atmosphere of the briefings to be one of the most atmospheric and immersive things about the game -- so perhaps it's a matter of perception and taste! Even the art design contributed to that feeling.
Are you sure it's not that very atmosphere which provides the 'something going for it' you describe? Or perhaps it's the game's level of polish?
Yeah I should've said that it isn't totally lacking in immersion. Maybe just lacking a bit of that human touch is all I meant. The desperation of the situation, especially in the later FS2 missions definitetly added atmosphere for me. Hmm yeah you may have a point there about the cold atmosphere providing something.
But the wingmen are very faceless, not to say nameless (well, apart from Snipes for one) and just seem to die without anyone batting an eyelid - even if the mission was successful there's no mention in the debriefings about the cost in human life involved when most of your flight or squadron gets splashed - it would have added more character if the debriefs mentioned that sort of thing (or maybe command just isn't meant to care about that stuff :doubt:). I suppose it's because the FS story experience is plot-based and not character-based, at the end of the day.
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Yeah, I think it's in part because no one cares. The only times human deaths are really mentioned are when warships or transports go down.
Fighter pilots appear to be, in the greater scheme of things, expendable. Informed on a need-to-know basis and discarded as pawns, even when the game doesn't make sense.
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Well the lack of proper characters in the main campaign is why i prefer Homesick, Blue Planet and Derelict. They have some good charaters, especially Leftenant "Duct-tape" Macky
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/me has voted.
Whatever anyone says, FreeSpace 2 is not perfect. It has a good number of errors in it, in particular the briefing and debriefing texts. The Colossus died in a not-so-glorious way, there aren't enough missions focusing on stealth ships, I find myself flying Terran bombers most of the time, and there's only one campaign. There's no point in having a Campaign List if most people hardly touch FRED to do a campaign in retail FS2.
FreeSpace 2 is a great game, no doubt, but it has too many errors for me to ignore, so I've voted accordingly.
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Freespace retail is a great game, but it isn't a kind of game that you want to play over and over again, for the average casual gamer, because the campaign does have some things to improve, like ( according to a friend who I tried unsuccessfully to play Fs2Open )
Only 3 types of missions
- Assault
- Defend a convoy for 10 mins < :o >
- SOC missions
The retail campaign according to my friend was so boring that he quit Fs2open totally after the Endgame.
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Well he may have a point there. The retail campaign involves repeatedly blowing stuff up;FS is a bit like an FPS but in space after all. But with FRED the possibilities for making more interesting missions are there.
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Of course there are also those to whom FreeSpace simply doesn't appeal. Maybe he was one of them.
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Well, then there's Halo, which is just walking through a map killing people along the way over and over and over and over again for the whole game.
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I'd rather play Duke Nukem 3D, even though I'm underage. :drevil:
FreeSpace doesn't appeal to my sister because she is allergic to games involving so many degrees of movement. For the same reason, one of the girls I know doesn't like such games either. In fact, she can't even watch a video of IKARUGA. :wtf:
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I'd rather play Duke Nukem 3D, even though I'm underage. :drevil:
FreeSpace doesn't appeal to my sister because she is allergic to games involving so many degrees of movement. For the same reason, one of the girls I know doesn't like such games either. In fact, she can't even watch a video of IKARUGA. :wtf:
Most of the people I know, dont like FreeSpace2 as there are too many controls involved (console freaks!!!)
.....and my wife just doesn't get it. "Why aren't you shooting at the ship? You're just shooting in front of it!" *Explanation of lead-indicators falls of deaf ears* "It's a stupid game anyway, I'm going watching Big Brother!"
:ick:
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Most of the people I know, dont like FreeSpace2 as there are too many controls involved (console freaks!!!)
.....and my wife just doesn't get it. "Why aren't you shooting at the ship? You're just shooting in front of it!" *Explanation of lead-indicators falls of deaf ears* "It's a stupid game anyway, I'm going watching Big Brother!"
:ick:
I can see their point. The thing is, I'm fine with so many controls, since Descent 3 has its own to count. And unlike FS2, where some commands are redundant (in my opinion) and can be left blank, Descent 3 requires almost ALL of its key commands.
I play FS2_Open on my MacBook now, and because of the lack of keys to use, I have to clear everything and set them on my own. That's where the Duplicate option comes in handy. :blah:
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FS2 isn't complicated at all in comparison to some games.
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FS2 isn't complicated at all in comparison to some games.
Really? Like Halo? Or Prey?
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BC3K
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I'm finding X2: the threat quite complicated at the moment, I played through the first one upto near the end, but this one is really confusing, they changed the keys and everything so I'm going to have to learn them all over again.
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I war has more complex controls than FS2, but X3 is just taking the Piss. A few months back i was trying (yet) again to bother to set up a few transports to make me some cash. But i got bored and downloaded a savegame with a few million bucks.
Only to get annoyed at managing forty fighters and nine battleships :( brain overload :hopping:
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Well, then there's Halo, which is just walking through a map killing people along the way over and over and over and over again for the whole game.
It's a very polished kind of killing, mind...people seem to find it really addictive, even those who don't otherwise like games (a bunch of girls in my dorm play Halo every week but aren't really into other stuff.) But that's off-topic, and I only bring it up because...
FreeSpace doesn't appeal to my sister because she is allergic to games involving so many degrees of movement. For the same reason, one of the girls I know doesn't like such games either.
...I think that Freespace has much the same kind of appeal as Halo does. I'm in an all-female household (excepting the father) and both sisters here picked up Freespace quickly.
You should tell your sister that playing games that require spatial thinking eliminates the male advantage on spatial-reasoning tests. It'll help her do well in math and physics. Maybe I can dig up the article about the study...
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I war has more complex controls than FS2, but X3 is just taking the Piss. A few months back i was trying (yet) again to bother to set up a few transports to make me some cash. But i got bored and downloaded a savegame with a few million bucks.
Only to get annoyed at managing forty fighters and nine battleships :( brain overload :hopping:
Kingdom's End, SPP. It can't get any easier than that. And most of X3 and X2 is done via menus, so it's not really complicated.
All games mentioned so far pale before Microsoft's Flight Simulator series in terms of complex controls. The X series, I-War and Battlecruiser Millenium have nothing compared to that.
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FreeSpace doesn't appeal to my sister because she is allergic to games involving so many degrees of movement. For the same reason, one of the girls I know doesn't like such games either.
You should tell your sister that playing games that require spatial thinking eliminates the male advantage on spatial-reasoning tests. It'll help her do well in math and physics. Maybe I can dig up the article about the study...
I think what Andro means is that FS2 gives his sister motion sickness.
But I could be wrong. I have some friends who similarly get motion sickness from something as simple as a driving game like Carmageddon. No amount of logic is going to change their instinctual reaction to that form of game.
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Someone make an Unreal Tournament physics mod and have a LAN party - I made one for one ship, aside from upward and downwards thrust...
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I think what Andro means is that FS2 gives his sister motion sickness.
Yes, that. She can't play or handle Descent either (all three versions).
On the other hand, playing FreeSpace 2 makes me feel like spamming, and, err...I just finished playing FreeSpace 2. :nervous:
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FS2 pws all space sims!
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FS2 pws all space sims!
:yes:
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The topic title question asks if FS2 is the best space sim ever. Since no other space sim is as good as FreeSpace2, FS2 becomes the greatest space sim ever.
I agree that some things could have been improved, but out of all games- FS2 is my fave.
P.S. I actually think that if a better space sim was released, then all of HLP would be like the Command and Conquer fanbase: forget the older and better game ( FS2 in this case ) and move onto the new one, replacing the original fans/forum lurkers with those annoying type MP people who expect all games to have the latest graphics.
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P.S. I actually think that if a better space sim was released, then all of HLP would be like the Command and Conquer fanbase: forget the older and better game ( FS2 in this case ) and move onto the new one, replacing the original fans/forum lurkers with those annoying type MP people who expect all games to have the latest graphics.
I don't think that would happen, personally.
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P.S. I actually think that if a better space sim was released, then all of HLP would be like the Command and Conquer fanbase: forget the older and better game ( FS2 in this case ) and move onto the new one, replacing the original fans/forum lurkers with those annoying type MP people who expect all games to have the latest graphics.
If the new game is better, the old game by default can't be better. :p
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Oh hey, that's a contradiction; if the New Space Sim is better than FS2, how can FS2 be better than the New Space Sim. :beamz:
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wft is this ****? Some kind of quantum FS2 that is both better and worse than the new space sim?
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wft is this ****? Some kind of quantum FS2 that is both better and worse than the new space sim?
Exactly. It doesn't make any sense.
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Maybe he meant that
FS2<The New Space Sim>FS2Open?
:nervous:
:confused:
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How will people know what you mean if you don't say what you mean? The message was specifically that when a newer and better game appears, people will abandon the older and better. That's too better to make sense.
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I STILL don't get it... :confused:
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Look at it this way:
Some people say that Tiberian Sun is better than Tiberium Wars. Others say the opposite. Though Tiberium Wars is newer, so has better graphics and more features, thus it's better. Older and better means that you enjoy the older game more than the new advanced "better".
Ah, well, that's what I get for posting when making weapons for FS2...
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I liked Tiberium Wars better for other reasons than graphics and technology.
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So what you're trying to say, Shadow, is that, if there is a New Space Sim, it will have its good points and bad points over FreeSpace 2, while FreeSpace 2 will also have its good points and bad points over the New Space Sim, yeah?
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Exactly. And to me it'd still be better, I think, cause I really enjoy the storyline of FS.
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Exactly. And to me it'd still be better, I think, cause I really enjoy the storyline of FS.
So do I. I'm loyal to any good game. FreeSpace is a good game. :)
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You really cannot compare the graphics of a almost 10 year old game to a new game. They didn't have as good gaming platforms back then so thye couldn't make games very graphic heavy.
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Exactly. And to me it'd still be better, I think, cause I really enjoy the storyline of FS.
So do I. I'm loyal to any good game. FreeSpace is a good game. :)
BLASPHEMY!!
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Exactly. And to me it'd still be better, I think, cause I really enjoy the storyline of FS.
So do I. I'm loyal to any good game. FreeSpace is a good game. :)
BLASPHEMY!!
GFX n00b.
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No, he said "good" and "FreeSpace" in the same sentence.
Hopefully someone will get what I'm saying after a while...
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No, he said "good" and "FreeSpace" in the same sentence.
Hopefully someone will get what I'm saying after a while...
Oh, I think I know what you're getting at. FreeSpace 2 isn't good to you; it's the greatest game ever, isn't it?
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FreeSpace2 SCP is the greatest game that I have ever had or will have.
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No, he said "good" and "FreeSpace" in the same sentence.
Hopefully someone will get what I'm saying after a while...
Oh, I think I know what you're getting at. FreeSpace 2 isn't good to you; it's the greatest game ever, isn't it?
One of the greatest games, probably the greatest.
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It's alright, I guess. A good representative of its genre, but... you know.
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FS2_Open is very nice, but even on the newest MacBook, running Blue Planet is a bit of a pain.
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Because the newest Macbooks have no graphical capabilities to speak of.
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Yeh, I've been browsing the laptop selections of my local computer dealers and all (or at least most of) the Macbooks seem to have Intel graphics chips for starters. *shudder*
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Yeh, I've been browsing the laptop selections of my local computer dealers and all (or at least most of) the Macbooks seem to have Intel graphics chips for starters. *shudder*
That goes for the whole world. You only get proper graphics cards with MacBook Pros. :blah: