Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Mobius on July 01, 2008, 10:41:52 am

Title: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2008, 10:41:52 am
The Trebuchet missile is powerful but its impact explosion isn't impressive.

I wonder if it was intended to penetrate the hull and explode soon afterwards or if the table entry was created strangely...in any case I don't get why it can inflict so much damage to shields with such a small and so "hull-specific" explosion...

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Droid803 on July 01, 2008, 10:59:11 am
I would assume it operates using the armor-piercing principle...get inside partially, then BOOM.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2008, 11:02:15 am
How does it penetrate shields? Trebuchet instantly kill fighters and most bombers...
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: GruntOfAction on July 01, 2008, 11:08:25 am
How does it penetrate shields? Trebuchet instantly kill fighters and most bombers...

Maybe the sheer awesome of the name penetrates them and causes awesome-overload and kills them instantly?
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2008, 11:26:26 am
Eh? :wtf:

I wonder if the Harpoon is more effective if used against fighters piloted by women, then. :P

[/joke]
[/color]
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: General Battuta on July 01, 2008, 12:50:23 pm
Dude, I hate to tell you, but penetration works pretty well on guys too.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: nubbles526 on July 01, 2008, 02:01:34 pm
Dude, I hate to tell you, but penetration works pretty well on guys too.
Ok ok, let's all get back to keeping our mouths clean, ok? Remember we have childrens on this board  :p

But regarding to topic, we've seen it not only kill shields but subsystems too. So my guess is that is goes BOOM on impact. Not meant to dig a hole then boom.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on July 01, 2008, 02:05:42 pm
The Trebuchet missile is powerful but its impact explosion isn't impressive.

      Whenever it explodes you're going to be 3 clicks away from it anyway so what does it matter.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: blowfish on July 01, 2008, 02:08:25 pm
Code: [Select]
$Impact Explosion Radius: 10000
Would that be big enough for you? :eek2:

Seriously.  If you are unsatisfied with the size of the explosion, just edit the tables.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 01, 2008, 02:45:28 pm
No, he wants fifteen high-resolution explosions which are selected depending on which material (defined by digital molecular matter) they impact.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2008, 03:24:33 pm
:wtf:

I wondered about the effect of the weapon on its target in canon. Otherwise I would have posted this in FreeSpace Modding.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 01, 2008, 03:25:45 pm
I wondered about the effect of the weapon on its target in canon. Otherwise I would have posted this in FreeSpace Modding.
Well I don't see why it wouldn't be canon.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: admiral_wolf on July 01, 2008, 03:27:52 pm
But aren't shields just there to minimise the effects of laser weapons and lower yield missles?  I've never seen a Trebuchet missle just take a shield out and leave the hull OK.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 01, 2008, 03:33:23 pm
I see them impacting the hull, create a small explosion, eliminate the shields and inflict severe damage to the hull. I don't find it plausible unless there's a way to explain it.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 01, 2008, 04:18:14 pm
But aren't shields just there to minimise the effects of laser weapons and lower yield missles?  I've never seen a Trebuchet missle just take a shield out and leave the hull OK.
It's because the Treb does too much damage. It takes down the shield and does a lotta damage to the hull.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: aurora_energy on July 02, 2008, 12:28:57 am
Dude, I hate to tell you, but penetration works pretty well on guys too.

You know that from experiance do you?

I see them impacting the hull, create a small explosion, eliminate the shields and inflict severe damage to the hull. I don't find it plausible unless there's a way to explain it.

The way I figure it, it has some kind of ionisation ability which simply fries the reactor core.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on July 02, 2008, 01:13:37 am
Or it works with electronic detonation, maximizing forward explosion power and minimizing losses to other directions. (Yes, that exists already.)
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: General Battuta on July 02, 2008, 01:14:15 am
Dude, I hate to tell you, but penetration works pretty well on guys too.

You know that from experiance do you?

Yeah, I've been hit by plenty of Trebuchets.

Or it works with electronic detonation, maximizing forward explosion power and minimizing losses to other directions. (Yes, that exists already.)

You mean like an EFP? A shaped charge? Not too hard to believe.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2008, 07:06:44 am
Yeah, I've been hit by plenty of Trebuchets.
Did they hit the cockpit or your engines?

You mean like an EFP? A shaped charge? Not too hard to believe.
The Trebuchet says it uses precision targetting, but precision targetting doesn't exactly explain its high payload. I think an EFP would be the most reasonable answer cause it doesn't have a sharp edge (so it's probably not a HEAT-like missile) and it also explains why the damage it does is so immense while the explosion is so small.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: General Battuta on July 02, 2008, 12:09:56 pm
Yeah, I've been hit by plenty of Trebuchets.
Did they hit the cockpit or your engines?

Well, after Snipes started yelling DIVE DIVE DIVE...
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 02, 2008, 12:16:34 pm
Do you think it's plausible to increase the explosion radius? At least to "explain", if that's the correct word, the damage.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 12:23:41 pm
Well, you could always do that yourself...its just one line in a table entry.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 02, 2008, 12:25:57 pm
But will that be plausible?
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2008, 12:26:27 pm
What do you mean, "plausible"?
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 12:26:47 pm
bigger boom = more damage?
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 02, 2008, 12:32:25 pm
A bigger "boom" to justify the damage, that's all.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2008, 12:33:34 pm
So why not do it yourself?
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: blowfish on July 02, 2008, 12:36:44 pm
It would alter balance, since the larger radius would mean it would have a greater effect on formations of bombers...
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 02, 2008, 12:38:13 pm
Snail: I want to know if you would find it plausible.

Ex.

You launch a Trebuchet or a similar weapon in a campaign FREDded by me(like Steadfast). The weapon hits the target and you see an explosion that is bigger than the normal one. What will you think?

blowfish: Balance would be minimally changed because the explosion will not be THAT bigger.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2008, 12:39:34 pm
It would alter balance, since the larger radius would mean it would have a greater effect on formations of bombers...
No, $Impact Explosion Radius: does absolutely nothing to damage values. It is purely cosmetic...

I think.

You launch a Trebuchet or a similar weapon in a campaign FREDded by me(like Steadfast). The weapon hits the target and you see an explosion that is bigger than the normal one. What will you think?
Well I'd see it as a random change, I'd be rather neutral to it. I wouldn't see it as bad or good, just like how CP5670 made new explosion sounds. In fact I probably wouldn't notice.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 02, 2008, 12:43:19 pm
Yep, radius...I'm planning to alter it.

The change is likely to affect INF versions of such weapons(because, apart from Steadfast's Demo, I'm not going to release anything soon) so there shouldn't be problems.

Another question: since game balance will be minimally affected and MVPs' tbms tend to alter stuff like shockwaves and explosions, would you like to see a bigger Treb explosion(brought to you by the MVPs)?
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2008, 12:58:10 pm
I'd like to see a new ExpMissileHit1 first.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: blowfish on July 02, 2008, 12:58:35 pm
The TBMs in the MediaVPs do very little in terms of altering balance.  All that I have seen changed is the shockwave speed, which barely affects anything.  Make the effect radius bigger for all I care but keep the actual explosion the same for balance's sake!
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2008, 12:59:41 pm
As I said, making any Explosion Radii bigger will just underline how bad the ExpMissileHit1 animation is.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 01:00:14 pm
But its the explosion effect, which is purely cosmetic. No balance changes.
Its not even a shockwave.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Snail on July 02, 2008, 01:01:23 pm
Making the explosion bigger will make the ExpMissileHit1 more blurry. It's all blurry and pixely and crappy even when the Radius is set to around 3.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 01:04:05 pm
Urgh.
Then yeah, a better ExpMissileHit1 may be in order.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 02, 2008, 01:08:37 pm
Maybe an ani other than ExpMissileHit1 would be better for the Trebuchet...
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Hero_Swe on July 02, 2008, 01:56:48 pm
Listen up SCP! Top Priority mission from the highest of channels! We need a new Ani for the ExpMissileHit1! ASAP!
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 01:57:14 pm
actually, an eff would be even better :)
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 02, 2008, 03:54:46 pm
That request should be posted in the Upgrade forum.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Droid803 on July 02, 2008, 07:04:15 pm
Well, why don't we make on there then? :P
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 02, 2008, 08:19:55 pm
I like Trebuchets. If I could stock up on 100 of those on an Ares, my day is made. :drevil:
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: General Battuta on July 03, 2008, 12:29:06 am
I think the current effect is fine. It suggests a small, precise, powerful, armor-piercing blast.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 03, 2008, 11:10:16 am
The point is that "small" and "powerful" don't fit well together without a proper explanation.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Ghostavo on July 03, 2008, 11:29:58 am
They don't fit well together for you. Big difference. Notice you are the only one complaining about this.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Mobius on July 03, 2008, 11:39:23 am
What do you mean? The Trebuchet is some sort of torpedo with the same impact explosion radius of a normal missile. I use it against Ursae and watch the bombers go down with such a small explosion, that's why I wondered about its possible penetration ability but I don't get how it can pierce shields...
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: General Battuta on July 03, 2008, 11:45:19 am
Because the blast isn't blooming outwards, it's all going into the ship. A jet of energy, like you'd get from the shaped-charge warheads in use today.

There's your explanation.

A big explosion would seem wasteful. You're into flight sims, right? Think of it as a long-range missile; they don't need to carry large warheads, they need to be fast and to fly a long way. When they reach their target, they can do enough damage through kinetic energy and shrapnel to bring it down. They don't need bunker-busting explosives.
Title: Re: About the Trebuchet missile...
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 04, 2008, 05:15:43 am
Because the blast isn't blooming outwards, it's all going into the ship. A jet of energy, like you'd get from the shaped-charge warheads in use today.

There's your explanation.

A big explosion would seem wasteful. You're into flight sims, right? Think of it as a long-range missile; they don't need to carry large warheads, they need to be fast and to fly a long way. When they reach their target, they can do enough damage through kinetic energy and shrapnel to bring it down. They don't need bunker-busting explosives.

I agree. The Trebuchet wasn't meant to replace torpedoes; it was meant to be the "sniper" of missiles.