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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mars on July 16, 2008, 06:52:19 pm

Title: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Mars on July 16, 2008, 06:52:19 pm
How is it Isreal was willing to exchange 5 fighters and 500 dead bodies for two dead bodies? It seems... odd to me.

Even excluding the living, 500 bodies for 2 doesn't even stack up... and lets face it, five people who are alive and kicking are worth any number of dead people.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Blue Lion on July 16, 2008, 07:06:54 pm
Because Israel is crazy

<runs away before this gets ugly>

<Will be back though>

<crazy>
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 16, 2008, 08:55:02 pm
I think it makes an eloquent statement about the relative value the sides place on their people.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Uchuujinsan on July 16, 2008, 11:25:17 pm
or the relative value of the price each side can pay.
Hard to pay with 500 dead bodies if you killed less than 500, isnt it? :/

This is not about real value - its about market value
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Kosh on July 16, 2008, 11:53:38 pm
How is it Isreal was willing to exchange 5 fighters and 500 dead bodies for two dead bodies? It seems... odd to me.

Even excluding the living, 500 bodies for 2 doesn't even stack up... and lets face it, five people who are alive and kicking are worth any number of dead people.


What that means is that 2 live Israelis is worth 5 live and 500 dead Palestinians. Or it just means that Israelis value their lives more than the others. Depends on how you look at it.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Polpolion on July 17, 2008, 10:32:21 am
I think it makes an eloquent statement about the relative value the sides place on their people.

I agree.  :nod:
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: captain-custard on July 17, 2008, 11:06:09 am
its called politics ... which will never make sense....

Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Blue Lion on July 17, 2008, 12:02:11 pm
A lot of people like to say that it shows how much Israel places value on their people etc.... which is probably true.

But remember Hezbolla got 5 people for essentially nothing.

Israel just gave them 5 more "militants" so they could look good.

It's a politics/image move that in a few weeks will be forgotten. Those 5 guys could do some serious damage in a few weeks.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Nuclear1 on July 17, 2008, 02:45:09 pm
It was more of a religious thing than political. The Israeli families of those two soldiers want to bury them, a grace which Hezbollah certainly wouldn't have given them were it not for releasing those militants.

I've got issues with both sides, honestly.  Israel used absolutely excessive force two years ago, leading to even higher popularity for the disgusting savages and Islamofascists that make up Hezbollah.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: karajorma on July 18, 2008, 12:28:50 pm
I think they're trying to beat the high irony bonus they got when they finally succeeded in getting rid of Arafat only to end up with Hamas in charge.


It will take some doing of course.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Janos on July 18, 2008, 02:13:43 pm
Islamofascists

fffffffff
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: BlackDove on July 18, 2008, 02:17:25 pm
The Israelis have secret abilities that can be stolen if you examine their dead, so they traded so many dead and alive Hezbollah to get their secrets back.

Obviously.

Yes. That's what happened.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: peterv on July 18, 2008, 05:58:14 pm
It was more of a religious thing than political. The Israeli families of those two soldiers want to bury them, a grace which Hezbollah certainly wouldn't have given them were it not for releasing those militants.

I've got issues with both sides, honestly.  Israel used absolutely excessive force two years ago, leading to even higher popularity for the disgusting savages and Islamofascists that make up Hezbollah.

All families in every religion wants to bury their dead.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Nuclear1 on July 18, 2008, 06:03:06 pm
How many give up five live prisoners to bury two though?
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Mars on July 18, 2008, 06:33:36 pm
It's like I said, one living person is worth an infinite number of stiffs.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: peterv on July 18, 2008, 09:50:12 pm
How many give up five live prisoners to bury two though?

That is not a decision taken by families. I believe that it is a matter far beyond what we think as persons. It has to do whith what our goverments and muslim leaders wants us to think as masses.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Grizzly on July 18, 2008, 11:33:45 pm
How many give up five live prisoners to bury two though?

That is not a decision taken by families. I believe that it is a matter far beyond what we think as persons. It has to do whith what our goverments and muslim leaders wants us to think as masses.

In other words: Propaganda?
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Scuddie on July 19, 2008, 04:12:03 am
Not propaganda.  It goes much deeper than that.

This is the work of the Illuminati.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Mefustae on July 19, 2008, 07:26:22 am
This is the work of the Illuminati.
Fool. The Illuminati are merely puppets in a far greater game, or have they gotten to you, too?
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: peterv on July 19, 2008, 08:33:35 am
You can call it propaganda or Illuminati or whatever you like. Moreover, you can speak ironicaly about it, that makes the ones who makes profit out off it very happy. "The greatest trick off the devil was convincing people that he does not exist", is that cool enough? And it is also very bitter.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Mefustae on July 19, 2008, 09:18:50 am
You can call it propaganda or Illuminati or whatever you like. Moreover, you can speak ironicaly about it, that makes the ones who makes profit out off it very happy. "The greatest trick off the devil was convincing people that he does not exist", is that cool enough? And it is also very bitter.

P.S. I am not a crackpot!
Fixed that for you, buddy.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: BlackDove on July 19, 2008, 09:56:22 am
KEYSER SOZE!!!!!!1

KEEEEEEEEEYSEEEEEEEEEEER SHOOOOOOOOOZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!111111111111111111111oeneoneoenoenee
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Black Wolf on July 19, 2008, 10:54:17 am
I think they're trying to beat the high irony bonus they got when they finally succeeded in getting rid of Arafat only to end up with Hamas in charge.


It will take some doing of course.

People've been saying this sort of thing would happen for years, all over the middle east. Every so often places like Egypt will get pinged by the international community for undemocratic elections. And in response, the general sentiment is that if elections were free and fair, the islamists would win. It happened in Palestine, it happened in Lebanon, the situation in Iran is not entirely dissimilar... It's happening all over the middle east and will continue to happen as long as the social, political and religious situation stays the same., i.e. for the forseeable future.

Just be glad they're more interested in fighting each other rather than banding together to cause trouble for the outside world.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Mika on July 19, 2008, 03:39:18 pm
Quote
Just be glad they're more interested in fighting each other rather than banding together to cause trouble for the outside world.

Me not being quite up to the history of that region, anyone minding to refer me to a link or a book where it is explained what actually happened a thousand years ago in Middle East. Why did the fundamentalism rise up there?

Mika
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Al Tarket on July 19, 2008, 04:00:57 pm
i've lived in Israel my whole life, and the general populace thinks it is rather weird that the hezbo and the government are doing this trade.

a thousand years ago, Jerusalem was the center of attention for the middle east, destroyed a few times, captured about 40 times, and even the secret assassination guild was up to no good making use of the opportunity to create propaganda to create holy wars, although saladin (sal'ad'din) who died before he could fully stop the english empire had a big holy war back at home, which created the predicament with several differing faiths living in one country that we see today. however fundamentalism has always been an issue, religon is what shapes my countries entire theology about everything so it becomes 1st priority. 
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Mika on July 20, 2008, 07:38:19 am
Thanks, but my question was directed to time before state of Israel. I meant what happened to that moderate Arab society that preserved some of Mathematics and Physics, until they arrived to Europe centuries later? What caused the recession, of which they can't seem to be able to get up until today, and even today it is the most moderate Arab societies like UAE? If I try to google about this, I mostly get hits on the rise of American Fundamentalism, so probably the key words are wrong.

Mika
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Janos on July 20, 2008, 08:51:51 am
Thanks, but my question was directed to time before state of Israel. I meant what happened to that moderate Arab society that preserved some of Mathematics and Physics, until they arrived to Europe centuries later? What caused the recession, of which they can't seem to be able to get up until today, and even today it is the most moderate Arab societies like UAE? If I try to google about this, I mostly get hits on the rise of American Fundamentalism, so probably the key words are wrong.

Mika

mongols and colonialism
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Nuclear1 on July 20, 2008, 11:29:34 am
Thanks, but my question was directed to time before state of Israel. I meant what happened to that moderate Arab society that preserved some of Mathematics and Physics, until they arrived to Europe centuries later? What caused the recession, of which they can't seem to be able to get up until today, and even today it is the most moderate Arab societies like UAE? If I try to google about this, I mostly get hits on the rise of American Fundamentalism, so probably the key words are wrong.

Mika

mongols and colonialism

Don't forget the crusades.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: ShivanEmperor on July 20, 2008, 03:47:56 pm
It doesn't matter what it is that they exchanged. It could be the Isrealis exchanging the bodies of 500 telepaths for 2 alien bodies. It doesn't matter but I know that it has to do with one thing: The isrealis just want peace. They are willing to give away so much just for a 2 dead people just so their enemies may think twice before firing rockets at them. The Isrealis gave up a quarter of theyr land to those who hated them and yet those muslims still want to whipe them off the map. It's called being ungrateful. The isrealis give the Muslis stuff and the Musis repay them by blowing them up for more. Musi and greedy and selfish. They just want ten for the price of none. :sigh:
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Mars on July 20, 2008, 03:54:48 pm
That's not a totally biased opinion or anything... I mean, don't get me wrong, they all are, but I'd have to strongly disagree with you there.

Israel has made several compromises, it's true, but I don't think you could accuse them of "just wanting peace"
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Uchuujinsan on July 20, 2008, 07:14:28 pm
Quote
The Isrealis gave up a quarter of theyr land to those who hated them and yet those muslims still want to whipe them off the map.
Where did you get that from?
After Israel was founded on May 14 1948, they only conquered land, and only gave up on some part of that conquered land.

And, at least the official goal of the PLO is nowadays to found an own country, not to wipe Israel off the map.

It would be really news to me that Israel gave up some of the land they had from the UN-resolution.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Nuclear1 on July 20, 2008, 08:48:35 pm
It would be really news to me that Israel gave up some of the land they had from the UN-resolution.

You seem to be missing the whole current 'Israel giving up the Golan Heights' deal.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Uchuujinsan on July 21, 2008, 01:12:59 am
What makes you think the Golan Heights are Israel territory? Its conquered from Syria.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Nuclear1 on July 21, 2008, 01:31:01 am
The fact they have to give it back in the first place.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Uchuujinsan on July 21, 2008, 01:59:56 am
I said
Quote
It would be really news to me that Israel gave up some of the land they had from the UN-resolution.

They conquered a lot of non-isreali territory, giving some of that back (also due to international pressure) doesnt make them someone who "just wants peace". (I am referring to ShivanEmporer again)

Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: ShivanEmperor on July 21, 2008, 03:56:47 am
The Israeli Primeminister gave some of Israeli territory I believe to the Muslims before he entered a coma. I can't exactly remember who he gave the land to but some say that his sickness was punishement for giving away holy land.

Keep in mind that no matter what happens in the middle east, all that land does not really belong to anyone. They are all fighting over it which means that there is no true owner of it all.

The Israeli's are very peace loving people. Do you have any idea how many people hate them these days? Do you even know why? People really just hate them because the Muslims and the Nazi's do, along with any other fascists. Don't you think maybe, just maybe that if the Isreali's gave up so much to the people that hate them that maybe they wouldn't hate them anymore?

There are so many problems with Politics and all this middle east wars and stuff that I could write tons of threads explaining it all just to get people to see the real picture. Anyway, lets not go off topic. :)
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: karajorma on July 21, 2008, 05:21:24 am
The Israeli's are very peace loving people.

Tell that to the dead of the Sabra and Shatila massacre. Given that Israel elected the man who his own government found bore personal responsibility for it I find it very hard to believe that claim.  Where are the people claiming that's why he's in a coma?
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 21, 2008, 05:25:45 am
What makes you think the Golan Heights are Israel territory? Its conquered from Syria.

The fact they're willing to give back their northern defensive bulwark is rather telling, I think.

I also think it's telling that the territory was conquered due to the backfire of a war of aggression on Syria's part. It would not be so unreasonable to view it as reperations rather than conquered territory.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: karajorma on July 21, 2008, 05:52:54 am
I think calling the Six-day War a war of aggression in Syria's part is an over-simplification. Israeli had been deliberately provoking the Syrians for years.

As I've said before several times pretty much all the parties concerned have acted like children.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Snail on July 21, 2008, 06:08:56 am
The Israelis started up the war with Lebanon again last year because, what, 4 of their soldiers got killed? FYI, the Israelis were already killing loads of Lebanese soldiers. Sure, it's probably a lot more complicated than that, but the Israelis don't "just want peace".

That's the most naive statement I've heard.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Fearless Leader on July 21, 2008, 09:49:58 am
The Israelis started up the war with Lebanon again last year because, what, 4 of their soldiers got killed? FYI, the Israelis were already killing loads of Lebanese soldiers. Sure, it's probably a lot more complicated than that, but the Israelis don't "just want peace".

That's the most naive statement I've heard.

Wouldn't you feel a lot better bout being a citizen of whatever country you belong to if you knew your entire nation would go to war if somebody from another country killed or kidnapped you? I know I would, because if some guys from Canada or Mexico killed me i know nothing would happen.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Snail on July 21, 2008, 10:42:05 am
Sure but if you "just want peace" you would probably forgo the lives of a few prisoners.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: karajorma on July 21, 2008, 01:45:20 pm
Or try diplomatic means rather than go to war with another nation simply because some terrorist not supported by that nations government did something.

Especially when every sensible person was telling you that the war would simply create more terrorists.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Snail on July 21, 2008, 01:51:01 pm
I think some people here think that this is a storybook where there are good guys and bad guys.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: peterv on July 21, 2008, 05:47:09 pm
And propaganda is a spookie story for crackpots whith broken english.  :nervous:
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Scuddie on July 21, 2008, 06:51:07 pm
The storybook analogy is correct.  The problem is that most of the world think Israel are one of the good guys. 
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: karajorma on July 22, 2008, 07:16:39 am
Pity the same people who seem to believe that Israel is one of the good guys seem to forget that the biggest single act of terrorism in Palestine was carried out by the Israelis against the British on the orders of a man that later became prime minister of the country.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Janos on July 22, 2008, 07:28:24 am
I think some people here think that this is a storybook where there are good guys and bad guys.

Tell us more about the reality, please.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 22, 2008, 08:28:50 am
Pity the same people who seem to believe that Israel is one of the good guys seem to forget that the biggest single act of terrorism in Palestine was carried out by the Israelis against the British on the orders of a man that later became prime minister of the country.

It was also funny how suddenly they all forgot that the Soviet Union supported the creation of the state of Israel because they figured anyone who harassed the Brits was good people.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: karajorma on July 22, 2008, 11:01:37 am
What's really strange is how quickly the British forgot.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Daeron on July 22, 2008, 11:12:29 am
What's really strange is how quickly the British forgot.

When things like that aren't being taught during history lessons, it only requires the generation of that time to grow old for people to forget.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Scuddie on July 22, 2008, 11:13:48 am
Even stranger than that is the thought that the British did all of this on purpose, and was forgotten intentionally.

EDIT:  Damn.  Instaposted.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Fearless Leader on July 24, 2008, 12:48:29 am
I think some people here think that this is a storybook where there are good guys and bad guys.

Tell us more about the reality, please.

I know some about this. the bad guys are "Them" or "They". They usually have different ideas and weird looking weapons. The good guys are "Us" or "We".... sometimes "The UN", We have similar ideas and our weapons look familiar and safe to stand on the back side of.

We fight Them, because They are bad...
:nervous:
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Scuddie on July 24, 2008, 03:41:32 am
You did not just call the UN good, did you?  The UN is apathetic at best.
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Aardwolf on July 24, 2008, 03:51:01 am
The UN has repeatedly attempted to censure Israel for its agression and use of excessive force, and in most such cases the motions have been blocked by the United States. The UN is not apathetic, the UN is just being bullied by a member state which shouldn't have been given as much power as it has.

[rant]

That's like saying it's the (US) Democratic party's fault certain bills have or haven't been passed, when the Republican party can filibuster anything they put before the Senate, and when they have done so on more counts since they came into power than any other Senate in US history.

[/rant]
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Fearless Leader on July 24, 2008, 10:39:35 am
Did I forget to put the "[sarcasm] ... [/sarcasm]" things on?
Title: Re: About the Isreali / Hezbolla prisoner exchange...
Post by: Aardwolf on July 24, 2008, 10:43:44 am
No, it was actually pretty obvious.