[Mefustae]

You can call it propaganda or Illuminati or whatever you like. Moreover, you can speak ironicaly about it, that makes the ones who makes profit out off it very happy. "The greatest trick off the devil was convincing people that he does not exist", is that cool enough? And it is also very bitter.

P.S. I am not a crackpot!

Fixed that for you, buddy.

[BlackDove]

KEYSER SOZE!!!!!!1

KEEEEEEEEEYSEEEEEEEEEEER SHOOOOOOOOOZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!111111111111111111111oeneoneoenoenee

[Black Wolf]

I think they're trying to beat the high irony bonus they got when they finally succeeded in getting rid of Arafat only to end up with Hamas in charge.


It will take some doing of course.

People've been saying this sort of thing would happen for years, all over the middle east. Every so often places like Egypt will get pinged by the international community for undemocratic elections. And in response, the general sentiment is that if elections were free and fair, the islamists would win. It happened in Palestine, it happened in Lebanon, the situation in Iran is not entirely dissimilar... It's happening all over the middle east and will continue to happen as long as the social, political and religious situation stays the same., i.e. for the forseeable future.

Just be glad they're more interested in fighting each other rather than banding together to cause trouble for the outside world.

[Mika]

Just be glad they're more interested in fighting each other rather than banding together to cause trouble for the outside world.

Me not being quite up to the history of that region, anyone minding to refer me to a link or a book where it is explained what actually happened a thousand years ago in Middle East. Why did the fundamentalism rise up there?

Mika

[Al Tarket]

i've lived in Israel my whole life, and the general populace thinks it is rather weird that the hezbo and the government are doing this trade.

a thousand years ago, Jerusalem was the center of attention for the middle east, destroyed a few times, captured about 40 times, and even the secret assassination guild was up to no good making use of the opportunity to create propaganda to create holy wars, although saladin (sal'ad'din) who died before he could fully stop the english empire had a big holy war back at home, which created the predicament with several differing faiths living in one country that we see today. however fundamentalism has always been an issue, religon is what shapes my countries entire theology about everything so it becomes 1st priority. 

[Mika]

Thanks, but my question was directed to time before state of Israel. I meant what happened to that moderate Arab society that preserved some of Mathematics and Physics, until they arrived to Europe centuries later? What caused the recession, of which they can't seem to be able to get up until today, and even today it is the most moderate Arab societies like UAE? If I try to google about this, I mostly get hits on the rise of American Fundamentalism, so probably the key words are wrong.

Mika

[Janos]

Thanks, but my question was directed to time before state of Israel. I meant what happened to that moderate Arab society that preserved some of Mathematics and Physics, until they arrived to Europe centuries later? What caused the recession, of which they can't seem to be able to get up until today, and even today it is the most moderate Arab societies like UAE? If I try to google about this, I mostly get hits on the rise of American Fundamentalism, so probably the key words are wrong.

Mika

mongols and colonialism

[Nuclear1]

Thanks, but my question was directed to time before state of Israel. I meant what happened to that moderate Arab society that preserved some of Mathematics and Physics, until they arrived to Europe centuries later? What caused the recession, of which they can't seem to be able to get up until today, and even today it is the most moderate Arab societies like UAE? If I try to google about this, I mostly get hits on the rise of American Fundamentalism, so probably the key words are wrong.

Mika

mongols and colonialism

Don't forget the crusades.

[ShivanEmperor]

It doesn't matter what it is that they exchanged. It could be the Isrealis exchanging the bodies of 500 telepaths for 2 alien bodies. It doesn't matter but I know that it has to do with one thing: The isrealis just want peace. They are willing to give away so much just for a 2 dead people just so their enemies may think twice before firing rockets at them. The Isrealis gave up a quarter of theyr land to those who hated them and yet those muslims still want to whipe them off the map. It's called being ungrateful. The isrealis give the Muslis stuff and the Musis repay them by blowing them up for more. Musi and greedy and selfish. They just want ten for the price of none.

[Mars]

That's not a totally biased opinion or anything... I mean, don't get me wrong, they all are, but I'd have to strongly disagree with you there.

Israel has made several compromises, it's true, but I don't think you could accuse them of "just wanting peace"

[Uchuujinsan]

The Isrealis gave up a quarter of theyr land to those who hated them and yet those muslims still want to whipe them off the map.

Where did you get that from?
After Israel was founded on May 14 1948, they only conquered land, and only gave up on some part of that conquered land.

And, at least the official goal of the PLO is nowadays to found an own country, not to wipe Israel off the map.

It would be really news to me that Israel gave up some of the land they had from the UN-resolution.

[Nuclear1]

It would be really news to me that Israel gave up some of the land they had from the UN-resolution.

You seem to be missing the whole current 'Israel giving up the Golan Heights' deal.

[Uchuujinsan]

What makes you think the Golan Heights are Israel territory? Its conquered from Syria.

[Nuclear1]

The fact they have to give it back in the first place.

[Uchuujinsan]

I said

It would be really news to me that Israel gave up some of the land they had from the UN-resolution.

They conquered a lot of non-isreali territory, giving some of that back (also due to international pressure) doesnt make them someone who "just wants peace". (I am referring to ShivanEmporer again)

[ShivanEmperor]

The Israeli Primeminister gave some of Israeli territory I believe to the Muslims before he entered a coma. I can't exactly remember who he gave the land to but some say that his sickness was punishement for giving away holy land.

Keep in mind that no matter what happens in the middle east, all that land does not really belong to anyone. They are all fighting over it which means that there is no true owner of it all.

The Israeli's are very peace loving people. Do you have any idea how many people hate them these days? Do you even know why? People really just hate them because the Muslims and the Nazi's do, along with any other fascists. Don't you think maybe, just maybe that if the Isreali's gave up so much to the people that hate them that maybe they wouldn't hate them anymore?

There are so many problems with Politics and all this middle east wars and stuff that I could write tons of threads explaining it all just to get people to see the real picture. Anyway, lets not go off topic.

[karajorma]

The Israeli's are very peace loving people.

Tell that to the dead of the Sabra and Shatila massacre. Given that Israel elected the man who his own government found bore personal responsibility for it I find it very hard to believe that claim.  Where are the people claiming that's why he's in a coma?

[NGTM-1R]

What makes you think the Golan Heights are Israel territory? Its conquered from Syria.

The fact they're willing to give back their northern defensive bulwark is rather telling, I think.

I also think it's telling that the territory was conquered due to the backfire of a war of aggression on Syria's part. It would not be so unreasonable to view it as reperations rather than conquered territory.

[karajorma]

I think calling the Six-day War a war of aggression in Syria's part is an over-simplification. Israeli had been deliberately provoking the Syrians for years.

As I've said before several times pretty much all the parties concerned have acted like children.

[Snail]

The Israelis started up the war with Lebanon again last year because, what, 4 of their soldiers got killed? FYI, the Israelis were already killing loads of Lebanese soldiers. Sure, it's probably a lot more complicated than that, but the Israelis don't "just want peace".

That's the most naive statement I've heard.