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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stealth on July 18, 2008, 03:35:53 am

Title: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Stealth on July 18, 2008, 03:35:53 am
What an awesome movie.

I've seen a lot of movies over the last few years, and this one probably takes the cake for best movie.  Definately best movie of the year so far.

Two thumbs up.  A++.

I saw it once, and i'll definately see it again :)
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: BlackDove on July 18, 2008, 04:46:53 am
Yeah, it's movie of the year hands down.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: brandx0 on July 18, 2008, 05:36:33 am
I'd give it far more than movie of the year.  I'll never forget that.  Best 12 bucks I've ever spent, ever.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 18, 2008, 07:21:43 am
I'm going with friends this weekend.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: aRaven on July 18, 2008, 07:25:08 am
Here in Germany we have to wait till 20th August...that blows!!

Can't wait!

And don't dare to post any spoilers! :P
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 18, 2008, 07:43:26 am
This is the most awesome Joker I have ever seen. Batman is supposed to be the star, but Joker stole the whole show.

R.I.P Heath Ledger. You will be remembered forever for your role in this movie.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Black Wolf on July 18, 2008, 11:43:48 am
At the very least, this ties with Iron man as the best superhero movie ever... though the darker tone of this one makes it a better movie overall I reckon. Fantastic, cannot reccomend it enough.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Jeff Vader on July 18, 2008, 12:42:23 pm
Hmm. I dunno. I'm a bit sceptic after Batman Begins.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: IceFire on July 18, 2008, 01:04:50 pm
Hmm. I dunno. I'm a bit sceptic after Batman Begins.
Skeptical?  After Batman Begins?  That was an awesome movie...very well reviewed too.  Didn't like it?
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Flipside on July 18, 2008, 01:08:24 pm
Needs moar Shark Spray. ;)
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Jeff Vader on July 18, 2008, 01:22:04 pm
Hmm. I dunno. I'm a bit sceptic after Batman Begins.
Skeptical?  After Batman Begins?  That was an awesome movie...very well reviewed too.  Didn't like it?
Well, the beginning was excellent. Especially when Batman didn't have every single gizmo in his hands and had to rely more on the Kung-Fu department.  And the darker tone was more than welcome after disasters like Batman & Robin. But then suddenly there was a cliché-ish "oh noes, our city is in danger. Help us, Batman", which sorta made me sad. Hmm. I suppose I should give this one a chance, though.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: BlackDove on July 18, 2008, 02:03:55 pm
Any movie that establishes that Batman is in fact, a Ninja, is one of the best movies ever made period.

The rest is pretty self explanatory and usual.

(http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9546/1216076632152jv0.gif)
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 18, 2008, 02:30:58 pm
I forget where I saw that one.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: NGTM-1R on July 18, 2008, 03:03:10 pm
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9546/1216076632152jv0.gif

Only "****ing Batman" is acceptable on this forum.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: General Battuta on July 18, 2008, 03:04:23 pm
Hmm. I dunno. I'm a bit sceptic after Batman Begins.

I agree that Batman Begins was mediocre, but this was a whole different kettle of bats.

Awesome bats.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Roanoke on July 18, 2008, 03:42:41 pm
I haven't seen either Begins or Dark Knight but thank fuc4 they dumped the George Clooney comic-book style and went back to dark 'n' moody.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Windrunner on July 18, 2008, 04:42:32 pm
I personally loved Batman begins movie and cant wait to see the dark night  :D
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Maniax on July 19, 2008, 05:48:14 am
5 days until it comes to Wellington!! I only have so much hair left to pull out while waiting.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mefustae on July 19, 2008, 06:11:38 am
I really can't express enough how incredible the Joker is in this movie. He's truly terrifying. Every scene, every moment he's on screen, it's an ordeal. There are a good number of movies out there that scare me, but this was the only movie, and the Joker was the only character, that truly, truly unnerved me whenever he appeared on screen. The character's actions, Heath Ledger's performance, and that single-note score forced violin score that played when the Joker was acting particularly insane. I watching with bated breath every time.

He was so different from anything we've seen before from previous Jokers, and in a way far more loyal to the source material. He's not a gimmicky supervillain or over-the-top gag character, the Joker is a true psychopath in every sense of the word. Dark Knight captures his character so well; he's not in it for the money or the power, he commits crime just to watch the world burn. Add to that the deliberate homage to The Killing Joke in much of the Joker's actions, and this is most certainly the greatest portrayal of the Clown Prince of Crime ever.

Coupled with the fact that the rest of the movie is balls-out spectacular in every way, and Dark Knight stands as a true successor to the majesty of Begins. And might I add: If you people who didn't like Begins can't name a good reason for your dislike, in my eyes you now exist at about the same level as pond scum, or that stuff that builds up at the side of your mouth when you're really thirsty. Have a nice day.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mongoose on July 19, 2008, 12:46:22 pm
What he said.  Got to see it at the midnight showing and...wow.

Best ****ing movie ever.

Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: SPARTAN-367 on July 19, 2008, 01:00:54 pm
I still hate what they did to the Bat Mobile.. I perfer the old one.  :D
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Jeff Vader on July 19, 2008, 01:06:11 pm
I hope you mean the one and only Batmobile (http://www.1966batmobile.com/goodside.jpg).
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Rian on July 19, 2008, 01:14:50 pm
As I see it, Begins was just another superhero movie. It was enjoyable and well done, and quite a bit better than the average superhero movie, but in the end it didn’t really go much further than that. And I think the reason for that was the sources of conflict. Ras Al Ghul and Scarecrow are classic Batman fare, and while they certainly had menace, they clearly thought like supervillains and not like real-world villains, and in the end couldn’t be convincing outside their own mythology.

Ras Al Ghul, for example, wants to burn Gotham to the ground just so that it can get a clean start. No one outside superhero stories and conspiracy theories thinks this way, because it just wouldn’t work. You’d get corruption and political maneuvering throughout the building process, you’d get the same old pack of criminals taking advantage of thousands of traumatized refugees, and you’d have the inevitable economic crisis that results from not having a city anymore. In no way would this help to free Gotham from its troubled past – rather, it would burden it with rebuilding and healing for decades to come.

Dark Knight, on the other hand, deals in a very realistic and compelling menace. The Joker’s psychosis (thanks to Heath Ledger’s brilliant performance, of course) is entirely convincing, very real, and very scary. If he contrives elaborate supervillain-esque tests for Batman, it works because it doesn’t attempt to explain itself into nonsense. The Joker is a sower of chaos, and his games are nothing more than an expression of his madness. And that, to me, seems far more real than Ras Al Ghul’s overblown faux-altruism.

The other villains were also convincing, and motivated by ordinary old fear and greed. This is something that Iron Man had going for it as well – although the setup was fantastic, the villain was believable because he wanted the same things that everyone wants. That, in my opinion, is what elevated these movies above the standard gimmicky superhero fare. The heroes may have high-technology suits, may be millionaires, their lives may be implausible in a dozen different ways, but the problems they face are real to us, and that makes us care about what’s happening in a way that the League of Shadows couldn’t quite accomplish.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: General Battuta on July 19, 2008, 01:24:43 pm
I would just like to reinforce what Mefustae and Rian said about Heath Ledger as the Joker.

His performance is transcendent. Every time he's on screen he simply takes control. Allegedly he spent months alone in a hotel room trying to get into the character's head, and you can tell it paid off. He evokes a kind of wrenching conflict -- you're never sure if you want to laugh or run.

He's at once sublime and horrific, owing nothing to previous Jokers. I hope he gets an Oscar for it.

Incidentally, I would not be surprised if those months of isolation -- which he said disturbed him deeply -- were a factor in his suicide. But we shouldn't be discussing that here, let's stay on topic!

I still hate what they did to the Bat Mobile.. I perfer the old one.  :D

You're mad!
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: SPARTAN-367 on July 20, 2008, 05:16:55 pm
I hope you mean the one and only Batmobile (http://www.1966batmobile.com/goodside.jpg).

http://hotrodding.us/images/wallpaper/batmobile/movie-batmobile.jpg

Thats the one I liked and will always like.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mongoose on July 20, 2008, 05:33:57 pm
Psh, it's all about this (http://superherouniverse.com/superheroes/images/batman/btas/batmobile.jpg) low-rider.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: SPARTAN-367 on July 20, 2008, 08:47:48 pm
Psh, it's all about this (http://superherouniverse.com/superheroes/images/batman/btas/batmobile.jpg) low-rider.

Yeah classic :)
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Topgun on July 20, 2008, 08:58:57 pm
this one is my fav.
(http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/images/DCDirect/Sol05/Nov05/BatmanBatmobileMaquette.jpg)
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 20, 2008, 10:11:16 pm
Psh, it's all about this (http://superherouniverse.com/superheroes/images/batman/btas/batmobile.jpg) low-rider.
Yea, I liked that one.

The new Batmobile is a black .... tank. :lol:
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: BlackDove on July 22, 2008, 07:41:36 pm
The first one's downpoints were exactly the same as Superman Returns downpoints.

With the first one, the new director, writer etc. all have their hands tied behind their back. It's extremely difficult to make a movie when you've got a whole bunch of restrictions in time (cutting the movie mainly) placed on you. In the first one, everything needs to be established from he ground up to build the exact interpretation that is needed to nail down the basis, and only with the potential sequel, after the "default" has been set, can they finally do good original work. Batman Begins had to tell the story of how Batman became Batman, establish all the characters, Batmans original resolve, his capabilities, blah, blah, blah waste of time you can spend doing original material for a great movie (see Dark Knight), which you can't when you're taking on something like Batman. Or Superman. I was really REALLY surprised how good of a basis Singer did with the new Superman, considering he's got a whole bunch of people tied to a dead man (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=creeve) hovering over him with a foundation to make sure he "pays respect". Even though it went to sort of a lame place for this very reason, the movie did the basis quite well for the new generation, and he added an original twist of his own. I really am excited about the sequel, since he'll have mostly free reign with his own new twist, as opposed to only 25%. If even that.

Back to Batman, I've been calling it for about a year now, since I knew what was coming, and it turned out that yes, Heath's Joker is the best Joker ever, beating the limited character in the comics (inspired, but not like), the cartoons, and the movies, and that's hard to do with Jack Nicholson hovering over your head.

I really wonder what the Nolan brothers are gonna do with the third. It'll be tough to top this. But yeah, if it was ever likely to happen, it was going to be in the hands of these people.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Turambar on July 22, 2008, 10:22:50 pm
i wonder how they'll make the riddler not-gay.
their take on freeze should be interesting as well

not to mention if they're going to actually do Robin or not, and how to make Robin not gay.

now if DC would get their act together, they can start up with some Batman-Superman movies or perhaps even get to work on some Justice League.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mefustae on July 23, 2008, 03:37:15 am
their take on freeze should be interesting as well
Oh, man. Yes. Batman: TAS showed us that Mr. Freeze could be an incredible character. If he's handled with the same style and care as Ra's, Two-Face and the Joker, it'd be amazing to see a Begins/Dark Knight take on him.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Fenrir on July 23, 2008, 04:14:21 am
...That is the best idea for the next villain so far. Mr. Freeze for the sequal!
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Black Wolf on July 23, 2008, 05:31:59 am
They need to make a huge departure from the crazy Joker I think - the Riddler would be too close, and after Heath Ledgers performance, would feel like a poor copy. My vote goes to any one of (or several of) a series of villains -  the second Red Hood (i.e. not the pre-joker) for one - someone who doesn't have to be insane to be a nemesis for Batman. Plus Red Hood would be a sort of counterpoint to the Batman vigilantes in TDK, which would be cool. Someone who was effective, but totally countered Bat Man's "No Killing" policy. He might even be held up as a better class of vigilante in Gotham, in opposition to Batman's new hated status.

Other possibilities would be Hush and maybe the Penguin, but not the crazy Danny Devito take on the character, with dozens of trick umbrellas and rocket equipped penguins. More like the comic version - nightclub owning, intelligent Mob-boss type of character - He'd be calm, intelligent, and probably use the law to his own advantage, especially their new dislike of Batman. A gun disguised as an umbrella is nothing too out their in terms of gadgets (I think they even did it on mythbusters once) and would hearken back to his comic book incarnation.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: SPARTAN-367 on July 23, 2008, 06:08:39 am
.what i got...basically to make further sequels with little to none gayness lol  :D
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mefustae on July 23, 2008, 06:30:58 am
.what i got...basically to make further sequels with little to none gayness lol  :D
I don't recall any storylines pertaining to homosexuality in the comics, so they'd have to go entirely original for that. It could be an interesting direction.

Edit: I highly recommend anyone who enjoys the Batman mythos to pick up or download 'Batman: Gotham Knight'. It's a series of loosely connected vignettes in the same vein as the Animatrix, with each story written and drawn by a different anime director, resulting in an eclectic by ultimately satisfying range of both visual and storytelling styles. It's also worth noting that Kevin Conroy - who has been the primary voice behind Batman since TAS and every in every subsequent DCAU entry since - plays the eponymous role consistently throughout the anthology. Class act through-and-through.

I can't be certain, but I believe it also serves as a vague bridge between Begins and Dark Knight. Regardless, I highly recommend watching it. Very, very cool. :yes:
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Topgun on July 23, 2008, 11:48:28 am
i didn't like gotham knight that much. I wanted it to be more like tnba, not some dumb manga. the deadshot one was good though.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: SPARTAN-367 on July 23, 2008, 07:15:26 pm
Who was the villain in Begins again?
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Snail on July 23, 2008, 07:48:35 pm
Who was the villain in Begins again?
AFAIK the only comic guy was the Scarecrow, though Henri Ducardl appears as the more important bad guy.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Turambar on July 23, 2008, 08:29:39 pm
Who was the villain in Begins again?
AFAIK the only comic guy was the Scarecrow, though Henri Ducardl appears as the more important bad guy.

Henri Ducard was R'as Al ghul.   I am guessing that if they do anything comic-ish, he is not actually dead.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Unknown Target on July 23, 2008, 09:40:30 pm
Wow. Freaking wow. First of all, astounding movie. Yea I sound like a blubbering idiot but I'm still on my movie high. The Joker was actually scary - there was real tension when people's lives were threatened. I really, really loved this movie. Definitely the best movie of the year so far (looking at you Wall-E).

On that note, however. I ****ing. Hate. This. Island. First of all, the theatre is so ****ty the movie starts out of focus. Then halfway through the film, they change the focus for no reason. Then they black out the entire screen for 2 minutes. Then they actually had the reel RIP ON OPENING NIGHT. It took them TEN minutes to get it fixed. And the whole damn time I had some ignorant assholes behind me, clapping when the Joker killed people or blew stuff up, laughing when he slaughtered the good guys, and goin "He's a gangsta, he's a gangsta!" whenever he put a gun to someone's head.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Galemp on July 23, 2008, 10:07:31 pm
If I had to pick a villain for Bale/Nolan Combo no. 3, I'd say The Ventriloquist. He's innocent and pathetic, bullied around by this voice inside his head. Very difficult to handle since you can't just punch him, and it has the psychological depth needed for a good story. With the return of Ra's al Ghul, or Harley Quinn and the Joker, you could have a decent lineup.

Among the classics we have Catwoman, and Penguin, both of which got top-notch performances from Batman Returns. BW's take on the Penguin could be nice as a secondary character but Halle Berrie's Catwoman is a little too recent to do the character justice. Poison Ivy also needs some time to recover. Riddler, meanwhile, was handled very well in Batman Forever (except in costume) and personally I don't find his character that engaging. Perhaps a re-imagining of the character is in order since nothing's really changed in decades.

I don't see Mr. Freeze or Man-Bat coming up in this series since they're too sci-fi and not enough crime fiction for the Begins continuity. If they drastically toned down the extent of Clayface's abilities, he might be able to work.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Turambar on July 23, 2008, 10:43:29 pm
yeah, Jim Carey was hilarious as the Riddler, until they started beaming info into his brain.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Stealth on July 23, 2008, 10:44:50 pm
don't forget clayface.

till now, in batman begins, every character has been 'human'... if they went with clayface, it would be the first that's more fictional, and not as realistic, if you know what i mean :)
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 23, 2008, 11:15:45 pm
And the whole damn time I had some ignorant assholes behind me, clapping when the Joker killed people or blew stuff up, laughing when he slaughtered the good guys, and goin "He's a gangsta, he's a gangsta!" whenever he put a gun to someone's head.
To be fair, I laughed quite a bit at the Joker's acts of violence. That's part of what I thought was great about the way Heath Ledger played him: Even while he's making you queasy, he appeals to your basest sense of humor.

I mean, come on-- how could you not laugh at the whole hospital scene? I was almost falling out of my chair.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Fenrir on July 23, 2008, 11:34:34 pm
You know what would have been funny? If the "fake" batmen near the beginning were played by Michael Keaton, Adam West, Val Kilmer, and George Clooney.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 23, 2008, 11:42:52 pm
If they had done that I would've missed the rest of the movie doubled over on the floor laughing.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mefustae on July 24, 2008, 12:00:40 am
You know what would have been funny? If the "fake" batmen near the beginning were played by Michael Keaton, Adam West, Val Kilmer, and George Clooney.
What would have been really funny is if the fake Batman that was tortured, murdered, and strung up outside the Mayor's office was played by Joel Schumacher. And what would have been hilarious is if it happened for reals.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Unknown Target on July 24, 2008, 12:31:13 am
And the whole damn time I had some ignorant assholes behind me, clapping when the Joker killed people or blew stuff up, laughing when he slaughtered the good guys, and goin "He's a gangsta, he's a gangsta!" whenever he put a gun to someone's head.
To be fair, I laughed quite a bit at the Joker's acts of violence. That's part of what I thought was great about the way Heath Ledger played him: Even while he's making you queasy, he appeals to your basest sense of humor.

I mean, come on-- how could you not laugh at the whole hospital scene? I was almost falling out of my chair.


The hospital scene was hilarious - but laughing when he blew up SPOILER DO NOT READ


Harvey's girlfriend? I mean they were slapping their hands on their knees and clapping and laughing at the top of their lungs.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 24, 2008, 01:19:26 am
Well, more to the point, who gives a **** what other people laugh at in a movie theater? Life isn't long enough to burden oneself with those little sources of stress. Take it in stride and it might even become a fun behavioral study.

Also,

What would have been really funny is if the fake Batman that was tortured, murdered, and strung up outside the Mayor's office was played by Joel Schumacher. And what would have been hilarious is if it happened for reals.
:yes:
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mefustae on July 24, 2008, 01:32:58 am
Well, more to the point, who gives a **** what other people laugh at in a movie theater? Life isn't long enough to burden oneself with those little sources of stress. Take it in stride and it might even become a fun behavioral study.
Exactly. You can rest easy knowing that the jerk in the theatre will be burn in the Special Hell.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Turambar on July 24, 2008, 09:16:45 am
batman does not need a girl, i am glad that she has been removed.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Unknown Target on July 24, 2008, 09:26:50 am
Well, more to the point, who gives a **** what other people laugh at in a movie theater? Life isn't long enough to burden oneself with those little sources of stress. Take it in stride and it might even become a fun behavioral study.
Exactly. You can rest easy knowing that the jerk in the theatre will be burn in the Special Hell.

*Rollseyes*

Yea, I shouldn't give a **** because he's totally not ruining the movie for me. His constant ignorant laughter totally doesn't pull me out of the movie and force me to focus on him. It's not like he laughs at the saddest parts of the film and wrenches me out of the suspension of belief, and it's TOTALLY not like he's two feet behind me in the row right behind me.

But Mefustae's right, he's definately going to the special hell in the end and i will go to heaven and it'll all be ok because anyone who laughs in movie theatres will recieve his divine judgement in the end.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 24, 2008, 11:37:50 am
Quote
Disagreeing with everyone on everything, every time.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 24, 2008, 12:20:04 pm
Yea, I shouldn't give a **** because he's totally not ruining the movie for me. His constant ignorant laughter totally doesn't pull me out of the movie and force me to focus on him. It's not like he laughs at the saddest parts of the film and wrenches me out of the suspension of belief, and it's TOTALLY not like he's two feet behind me in the row right behind me.
I just don't think it's fair to pass judgment on someone for not experiencing the emotion prescribed by the film's affect. Ignorance has nothing to do with it; he'd been watching the same movie as you. Besides, if it was disruptive, you could have tried asking him politely to keep it down a little; in my experience it's pleasantly surprising how many people will oblige graciously.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Unknown Target on July 24, 2008, 03:00:53 pm
You really don't know how it is down here, mate.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: BlackDove on July 24, 2008, 04:59:24 pm
I'm gonna show you a magic trick.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Unknown Target on July 24, 2008, 05:22:19 pm
Wanna know how I got these scars?
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: BlackDove on July 24, 2008, 08:26:50 pm
wHY So sEriOUS?!

lEt'S pUT A sMiiiiiiLE On tHAAAt FACE!

You know watching it the first time, he really fooled me. I thought that was the true story, until he put up the different version with Rachel. Of course, by the end, you figure out what the true story behind his scars and general history really is, but all the same, very effective.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Goober5000 on July 24, 2008, 08:52:40 pm
You know watching it the first time, he really fooled me. I thought that was the true story, until he put up the different version with Rachel. Of course, by the end, you figure out what the true story behind his scars and general history really is, but all the same, very effective.
It seems like he's the type to tell a different story to everybody he threatens.  I thought he would tell Batman the real story, but we never got a chance to find out.

And I'm not sure how it's possible to determine the real story, based solely on what's in the movie.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: BlackDove on July 25, 2008, 08:00:08 am
You have to pick up the hints he drops down.

I'll give you a few.

Spoiler:
Expert in demolitions, knows elemental substances for high grade explosives, knows key structural points on a building to take it down in a systematic manner.

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

"Never start with the head, the victim gets all... fuzzy, he can't feel the next... SEE?"

"They need you right now, but when they don't, they'll cast you out. Like a leper. See their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you, when the chips are down, these civilized people, they'll eat each other. See I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curb. Have all these rules, and you think they'll save you".

"You know what I noticed? Nobody panics when things go according to "plan". Even if the plan is HORRIFYING. If tomorrow I told the press a gang banger would be shot. Or a truckload of soldiers would be blown up. Nobody panics. Because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS! Introduce a little anarchy, upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos".

What am I? Where have I been? How did I get these opinions? Where?
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 25, 2008, 11:30:48 am
****, that makes perfect sense. I wonder if they did it on purpose.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Turambar on July 25, 2008, 12:41:33 pm
huh, maybe im just being dense.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: brandx0 on July 25, 2008, 02:24:41 pm
Yeah... As far as I've read, they specifically DIDN'T give the Joker a background.  I think if you can find some sort of background from his actions in the movie then you're reading into it more than the makers of the film intended.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: General Battuta on July 25, 2008, 02:44:47 pm
You commit the intentional fallacy -- once a work of art is released, its meaning is defined by the viewer, not by authorial intent.

I'm with BlackDove, and I think this origin for the Joker is genius!
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: brandx0 on July 25, 2008, 02:56:35 pm
I don't even get what he's talking about, the origin of the joker?  What is the origin that you're talking about?
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Fenrir on July 25, 2008, 03:05:45 pm
I don't get it either. I suppose I don't know the Batman mythos enough.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 25, 2008, 03:22:28 pm
BlackDove is implying that the Joker is an ex-soldier. I really like the idea.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: General Battuta on July 25, 2008, 03:25:06 pm
Or at least some kind of CIA operative, doing demolitions and interrogation and stuff.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: haloboy100 on July 25, 2008, 05:18:00 pm
Maybe it's because I only watched the batman cartoon 3 years ago and lost interest, but I thought this movie was only above average. Sure it had a lot of awesome (and occasionally hilarious) moments, but I just fail to find anything personally memorable about it.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: colecampbell666 on July 25, 2008, 08:46:45 pm
Gonna go see this Sunday.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mars on July 25, 2008, 09:48:11 pm
Just saw it... it truly was an amazing movie.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: BlackDove on July 26, 2008, 07:37:43 am
****, that makes perfect sense. I wonder if they did it on purpose.

Of course they did.

The reason why Heath's Joker is so good, is because he's the first one that was fleshed out COMPLETELY. The Joker tells the viewer that he is NOT crazy, and there's really no reason to not believe him, especially with how much proof to that statement his actions in the movie give.

In the first Batman film, they gave Jack's Joker a flimsy "gangster" angle as Jack Napier, and he was only always as good as that background. The transition to it as well was pretty weak. Okay, he snapped and lost his mind after he fell in a pool of acid, leaving a perpetual smile, so his entire personality changed to fit a Jokers. Sounds like something out of a comic book.

Here however, they deeply rooted him as realistically a possible, which makes him all that much more believable and powerful as a character. The entire "torture" jail scene "YOU HAVE NOTHING. NOTHING TO THREATEN ME WITH. NOTHING TO DO WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH", he's talking in doublespeak (I'd say 95% of the people seeing the movie didn't pick up on it), not to mention knowing how to manipulate it from a victim's side, culminating in him getting exactly what he wants. That's another hint right there.

Oh and, everyone with the "He doesn't have a past on purpose" and "He's not meant to have a past", what you're positing is a VERY lame excuse not to use your brain, which I would surmise you do because your perception is lacking. Less excuses, more activating the brain.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Agent_Koopa on July 27, 2008, 08:13:54 pm
Wow. I just saw it with some of my friends. And... I'm impressed. Honestly, that's the best word I can come up with to describe my reaction. Some critics felt that the level of intensity remained at a constant climax throughout the film, and I agree. IMO, the movie was intense, exhausting, and frightening. I enjoyed it, if "enjoyed" can be used to describe something as emotionally exhausting as the movie. It didn't feel like a traditional superhero movie. I think one of the previous posters here hit the nail on the head when they talked about the Joker not acting like a comic-book villain. That's precisely why Heath Ledger is so disturbing and so threatening as the Joker. It's because you really feel, you really understand the fact that the Joker has absolutely no rules, how he takes Die Hard-style acts of terrorism/violence and makes them more than just theatrics. It's both Heath Ledger's amazing performance and the visual design of the Joker, with his insanity implicit in his makeup, his hair, absolutely everything. They did everything they could to make it clear that the Joker is not an over-dramatic supervillain with one gimmick and a master plan, he's a real guy, doing real crimes, and he WILL come to your house and hurt you.

You have to pick up the hints he drops down.

I'll give you a few.

Spoiler:
*snip*

What am I? Where have I been? How did I get these opinions? Where?

The Joker was the explosives expert for the A-Team? :eek2:
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: haloboy100 on July 27, 2008, 08:49:39 pm
Why is the origin of the Joker even important?
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ghostavo on July 27, 2008, 08:57:38 pm
Because it lays the foundation on why he is who he is. This interests people.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Turambar on July 27, 2008, 09:01:39 pm
Spoiler:
The killed the girl they killed the girl yaaaaay

batman doesnt need some retarded plucky romantic interest, he's the goddamn batman!

he should be ****ing Catwoman or Barbara Gordon not some regular chick

yay girl go boom!!!
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Herra Tohtori on July 27, 2008, 09:05:13 pm
Quote
Why is the origin of the Joker even important?

Oh come on. Why so serious?

The answer is: Because depending of interpretation, you can red all kinds of statements from between the lines and base a whole line of education in interpretation of literature, movies and other art forms. :p In this case, you can read more or less subtle message about war veterans lives being completely screwed up by post traumatic stress disorders, psychosis and other souvenirs from the frontlines. In other words, do you know how Joker got his scars...?

And the best - or worst depending on interpretation [pun intended] - thing about it is that every interpretation, given sufficient argumentation backing it up, is equally accurate. Perhaps it was his drunk fiend father... perhaps not.

Regarding the movie, saw it finally. Awesomeness. The only thing that irked me was the appearence of dei ex machinae, like the Joker apparently having set up explosives all over Gotham City beforehand, or having an absolutely huge army of ninjas specializing on infiltration and sabotage at his disposal... like how he managed to rig the hospital and the ships. Normal thugs can't do that, they'd be spotted. Joker himself would have taken a lot of time to rig the hospital secretly, leaving him barely any time to do anything else... therefore, ninjas. Or wizards. Let's say ninja wizards to be sure.


Also, why use spoiler tags in a thread about the Dark Knight? Shouldn't the thread topic kinda, you know, imply that the discussion might concern the movie in question and thus have some details of the plot...? :nervous:


EDIT: Oh snap, just thought of something blatantly obvious...

(http://i36.tinypic.com/2dvxqg.png)

-The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive. -Pvt. Joker
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Ford Prefect on July 28, 2008, 12:30:59 am
Damn you for thinking of that before I did.
Title: Re: Batman: The Dark Knight
Post by: Mika on July 29, 2008, 05:23:31 pm
Gets a good movie rating from me. Finally a good villain, who has thought out dialogue. Frightening that there are people like that around, isn't it? The thing about Joker is that the character is not far-fetched. He is quite real, but still cartoonistic enough that you only need to expand your belief in the real world by a small bit. The magic trick -scene is a big hands up for martial artists! At least I was smiling! (For those who don't know, people have indeed been killed with a pencil going through their eye or throat.)

But it wasn't as good as they say in IMDB. I don't like the Two-Face part of the movie, Joker himself would have been more than enough, now it feels they have tried to stuff too much in there.

Mika