[SPARTAN-367]

I still hate what they did to the Bat Mobile.. I perfer the old one. 

[Jeff Vader]

I hope you mean the one and only Batmobile.

[Rian]

As I see it, Begins was just another superhero movie. It was enjoyable and well done, and quite a bit better than the average superhero movie, but in the end it didn’t really go much further than that. And I think the reason for that was the sources of conflict. Ras Al Ghul and Scarecrow are classic Batman fare, and while they certainly had menace, they clearly thought like supervillains and not like real-world villains, and in the end couldn’t be convincing outside their own mythology.

Ras Al Ghul, for example, wants to burn Gotham to the ground just so that it can get a clean start. No one outside superhero stories and conspiracy theories thinks this way, because it just wouldn’t work. You’d get corruption and political maneuvering throughout the building process, you’d get the same old pack of criminals taking advantage of thousands of traumatized refugees, and you’d have the inevitable economic crisis that results from not having a city anymore. In no way would this help to free Gotham from its troubled past – rather, it would burden it with rebuilding and healing for decades to come.

Dark Knight, on the other hand, deals in a very realistic and compelling menace. The Joker’s psychosis (thanks to Heath Ledger’s brilliant performance, of course) is entirely convincing, very real, and very scary. If he contrives elaborate supervillain-esque tests for Batman, it works because it doesn’t attempt to explain itself into nonsense. The Joker is a sower of chaos, and his games are nothing more than an expression of his madness. And that, to me, seems far more real than Ras Al Ghul’s overblown faux-altruism.

The other villains were also convincing, and motivated by ordinary old fear and greed. This is something that Iron Man had going for it as well – although the setup was fantastic, the villain was believable because he wanted the same things that everyone wants. That, in my opinion, is what elevated these movies above the standard gimmicky superhero fare. The heroes may have high-technology suits, may be millionaires, their lives may be implausible in a dozen different ways, but the problems they face are real to us, and that makes us care about what’s happening in a way that the League of Shadows couldn’t quite accomplish.

[General Battuta]

I would just like to reinforce what Mefustae and Rian said about Heath Ledger as the Joker.

His performance is transcendent. Every time he's on screen he simply takes control. Allegedly he spent months alone in a hotel room trying to get into the character's head, and you can tell it paid off. He evokes a kind of wrenching conflict -- you're never sure if you want to laugh or run.

He's at once sublime and horrific, owing nothing to previous Jokers. I hope he gets an Oscar for it.

Incidentally, I would not be surprised if those months of isolation -- which he said disturbed him deeply -- were a factor in his suicide. But we shouldn't be discussing that here, let's stay on topic!

I still hate what they did to the Bat Mobile.. I perfer the old one. 

You're mad!

[SPARTAN-367]

I hope you mean the one and only Batmobile.

http://hotrodding.us/images/wallpaper/batmobile/movie-batmobile.jpg

Thats the one I liked and will always like.

[Mongoose]

Psh, it's all about this low-rider.

[SPARTAN-367]

Psh, it's all about this low-rider.

Yeah classic

[Topgun]

this one is my fav.

[Stormkeeper]

Psh, it's all about this low-rider.

Yea, I liked that one.

The new Batmobile is a black .... tank.

[BlackDove]

The first one's downpoints were exactly the same as Superman Returns downpoints.

With the first one, the new director, writer etc. all have their hands tied behind their back. It's extremely difficult to make a movie when you've got a whole bunch of restrictions in time (cutting the movie mainly) placed on you. In the first one, everything needs to be established from he ground up to build the exact interpretation that is needed to nail down the basis, and only with the potential sequel, after the "default" has been set, can they finally do good original work. Batman Begins had to tell the story of how Batman became Batman, establish all the characters, Batmans original resolve, his capabilities, blah, blah, blah waste of time you can spend doing original material for a great movie (see Dark Knight), which you can't when you're taking on something like Batman. Or Superman. I was really REALLY surprised how good of a basis Singer did with the new Superman, considering he's got a whole bunch of people tied to a dead man hovering over him with a foundation to make sure he "pays respect". Even though it went to sort of a lame place for this very reason, the movie did the basis quite well for the new generation, and he added an original twist of his own. I really am excited about the sequel, since he'll have mostly free reign with his own new twist, as opposed to only 25%. If even that.

Back to Batman, I've been calling it for about a year now, since I knew what was coming, and it turned out that yes, Heath's Joker is the best Joker ever, beating the limited character in the comics (inspired, but not like), the cartoons, and the movies, and that's hard to do with Jack Nicholson hovering over your head.

I really wonder what the Nolan brothers are gonna do with the third. It'll be tough to top this. But yeah, if it was ever likely to happen, it was going to be in the hands of these people.

[Turambar]

i wonder how they'll make the riddler not-gay.
their take on freeze should be interesting as well

not to mention if they're going to actually do Robin or not, and how to make Robin not gay.

now if DC would get their act together, they can start up with some Batman-Superman movies or perhaps even get to work on some Justice League.

[Mefustae]

their take on freeze should be interesting as well

Oh, man. Yes. Batman: TAS showed us that Mr. Freeze could be an incredible character. If he's handled with the same style and care as Ra's, Two-Face and the Joker, it'd be amazing to see a Begins/Dark Knight take on him.

[Fenrir]

...That is the best idea for the next villain so far. Mr. Freeze for the sequal!

[Black Wolf]

They need to make a huge departure from the crazy Joker I think - the Riddler would be too close, and after Heath Ledgers performance, would feel like a poor copy. My vote goes to any one of (or several of) a series of villains -  the second Red Hood (i.e. not the pre-joker) for one - someone who doesn't have to be insane to be a nemesis for Batman. Plus Red Hood would be a sort of counterpoint to the Batman vigilantes in TDK, which would be cool. Someone who was effective, but totally countered Bat Man's "No Killing" policy. He might even be held up as a better class of vigilante in Gotham, in opposition to Batman's new hated status.

Other possibilities would be Hush and maybe the Penguin, but not the crazy Danny Devito take on the character, with dozens of trick umbrellas and rocket equipped penguins. More like the comic version - nightclub owning, intelligent Mob-boss type of character - He'd be calm, intelligent, and probably use the law to his own advantage, especially their new dislike of Batman. A gun disguised as an umbrella is nothing too out their in terms of gadgets (I think they even did it on mythbusters once) and would hearken back to his comic book incarnation.

[SPARTAN-367]

.what i got...basically to make further sequels with little to none gayness lol 

[Mefustae]

.what i got...basically to make further sequels with little to none gayness lol 

I don't recall any storylines pertaining to homosexuality in the comics, so they'd have to go entirely original for that. It could be an interesting direction.

Edit: I highly recommend anyone who enjoys the Batman mythos to pick up or download 'Batman: Gotham Knight'. It's a series of loosely connected vignettes in the same vein as the Animatrix, with each story written and drawn by a different anime director, resulting in an eclectic by ultimately satisfying range of both visual and storytelling styles. It's also worth noting that Kevin Conroy - who has been the primary voice behind Batman since TAS and every in every subsequent DCAU entry since - plays the eponymous role consistently throughout the anthology. Class act through-and-through.

I can't be certain, but I believe it also serves as a vague bridge between Begins and Dark Knight. Regardless, I highly recommend watching it. Very, very cool.

[Topgun]

i didn't like gotham knight that much. I wanted it to be more like tnba, not some dumb manga. the deadshot one was good though.

[SPARTAN-367]

Who was the villain in Begins again?

[Snail]

Who was the villain in Begins again?

AFAIK the only comic guy was the Scarecrow, though Henri Ducardl appears as the more important bad guy.

[Turambar]

Who was the villain in Begins again?

AFAIK the only comic guy was the Scarecrow, though Henri Ducardl appears as the more important bad guy.

Henri Ducard was R'as Al ghul.   I am guessing that if they do anything comic-ish, he is not actually dead.