Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Water on July 24, 2008, 02:04:41 am
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The Caligari.com site seems to be saying TS7.6 is free.
http://www.caligari.com/ (http://www.caligari.com/)
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Where? I see a lot of posts but no download link.
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http://www.caligari.com/store/trueSpace/default.asp?SubCate=S2truespace&Cate=STtrueSpace (http://www.caligari.com/store/trueSpace/default.asp?SubCate=S2truespace&Cate=STtrueSpace)
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Hmmm... Downloading :D
Maye it's better than old ****space 3.2
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Hmmm... Downloading :D
Maye it's better than old ****space 3.2
That isn't very hard to achieve, but you'll notice that it seems to be a trial version... [of 7.5, silly me] whether it's functionally or temporally limited one, I don't know.
Also, it remains to be seen if this can even make COB's that are convertable to POFS... are the later versions of COB compatible with PCS/2 in the first place? :nervous:
EDIT2: apparently you "need" to register to get to the download links, so I took the direct links off from here. If an admin says they're okay I'll put them back, but for now, go to Caligari's pages, try to navigate to appropriate registration (http://cart1.caligari.com/web/Truespacemainreg.aspx) and get the files via official pathways.
The fact that the files are on a directly accessable format would suggest to me that they don't really care if someone gets to them directly, but better safe than sorry... :rolleyes:
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woah cool, i had expected them to make a version likw 5 or 6 free but not 7.6. since 7.6 has a complete uv mapper i bet this will open modeling up to alot of people, even though ts is not the best mesher out there.
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For anyone who does use this seriously, you may want to help with the Collada Converter for PCS2 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,54757.0.html). Maybe help generate some test cases in ts7.6 and use its Collada exporter, and submit the files for testing on that thread. Granted COB to POF is already implemented, but who knows, maybe the Collada support could be even better.
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I am downloading it now.
I'll try some models giving me problems tonight and see what I end up with.
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Do you still get spammed?
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?? is that a trick question? :eek2: ;)
I use a hotmail account with Live Mail Desktop.
Hotmail has enough spam filters to make it wortwhile to use for online registration purposes.
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No, its cause TrueSpace 3.2 registration sends ****loads of spam (or so I've heard) to whatever email you use.
I was wondering if the registration for 7.6 doest he same thing.
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No, its cause TrueSpace 3.2 registration sends ****loads of spam (or so I've heard) to whatever email you use.
I was wondering if the registration for 7.6 doest he same thing.
It's irrelevant anyway; if you don't want spam, use a bogus e-mail or a junkmail address like I use for the mundane registration e-mail stuff... At any rate, the registration form is little more than a portal to download link page; it doesn't need a functional e-mail to work, you don't need to click confirmation links posted to your e-mail or anything - it doesn't even have a CAPTCHA (not that it would be needed anyway since there's nothing to spam). If you don't want to disclose personal information, you can even get the program directly from the download links if you can aquire them from.. somewhere. Or just feed imaginary information to the required fields, it doesn't seem to check them at all. The legality of feeding false information is another thing, you might be violating an EULA, but that's your business and your decision.
It's not like they seem to be caring too much, hosting the files on a directly accessable form on their servers they must have pretty much known that the registration will not really mean much at all.
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The most likely reason for this is that Microsoft acquired Caligari in Feburary. (Virtual Earth)
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Free still has its prices, I don't mind either way :D
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Yeah, it appears they intend for Truespace to be used as a free tool to model for Virtual Earth (Sketchup/Google Earth anyone?)
Whatever the reason, it seems a bit overkill, Caligari put a lot into it to see it being given away for free now.
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Just got the email myself and downloading. Lets see if this old Truespace 3.2 fart can learn a new trick. :D
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Hopefully any experienced TS users will post their experiences here once they've given it a good run with their models. Maybe it could be the best free modeler since Blender?
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Hopefully any experienced TS users will post their experiences here once they've given it a good run with their models. Maybe it could be the best free modeler since Blender?
...Wings3D is still out there as well. :p
Although, tS 7.6 is supposed to be commercial quality 3D program while Blender and Wings are open source programs, so aside from the retarded user interface idea to hide buttons over each other instead in menus (wtf is wrong with real menus... it didn't seem quite as bad as 3.2 but still...) it should be a contester for seriously takeable free 3D applications. Not that Blender's user interface would be much better in terms of intuitive usability, but anyways... I figure if two modelling programs are comparative in stability and features, the betterness is mostly a matter of preference and practice.
Wings and Blender are also native multiplatform applications, that alone makes them attractive... and being OpenSource too.
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will quality of conversions be better with 7.6 over 3.2, if you've gotten them form an outside source?
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will quality of conversions be better with 7.6 over 3.2, if you've gotten them form an outside source?
No.. It may have better tools for fault finding (hopefully) but it won't magically turn render models into game models. People making render models don't really care about bad geometry. Blender has a tool to find messed up geometry called select Non-Manifold. Hopefully a Truespace7 user can point you to a similar TS tool.
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Does PCS2 support the Truespace 7 cob files?
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Does PCS2 support the Truespace 7 cob files?
Well you're now able to test that out :p
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Great I was going to try it out but guess what, I cant figure out how to load a model...
I hit file but that only leads to a texture library and when you change it it only looks for texture files anyway, WTF?
I started looking for panels but now I wiped out my work area and cant close these blank open windows lol
Going to be a bit different than 3.2....
I am not a fan of the double load time as well, the good news is it accepts more formats I wont have to reconvert to a usable form for half the models I use as well as dds capability and more image formats...
Damn manual tells me about the object panel but not WHERE IT IS!!!
Counter intuitive BS. :D
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Counter intuitive BS
Well, don't you just love it when there are things in the world that never ever change... :lol:
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SD, try the tab "TS6 Files" in the upper right of the inner window, then Load->Object. That should do it I think.
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Ah, I just tried something that worked. I forced open a model I know would load and hit the default button.
I can see the model now. :)
I'm not ready to dive into this this weekend. I'm knee deep in getting resources I have together for the NEW Xenoforce Mod (now being ported to C&C3). I have the Zeon only side WIP mod for beta testing. :)
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Yuck, for doing conversion and setup for PCS2, truespace 3 is far faster than 7.
edit: Ugh finally found where you can switch from rendered to wireframe and/or wireframe & rendered.
BTW is rendering disabled?
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If you want to push all the tS7 interface stuff out of the way and get to something familiar, there's a trueSpace 6 button near the top. Hit that and *ZIP*, you're looking at pretty much the default trueSpace 6.6 environment.
Now I just need to find where to disable the 3D widget and Magic Ring, and where to make new primitives pop up "On Grid" at the origin. I hope it can import workspace configurations from tS 6 because I have 6.6 exactly how I like it on a 19" widescreen LCD.
I downloaded the 7.6 installer and the manual and video installers. To save space but keep the manual handy, run the manual and video installers then burn the PDFMan folder and all three installers to a CD-R. Now you have a disk you can use for the manual and install just trueSpace 7.6 on your PC. That saves 213 megabytes of space.
So, MS bought Caligari eh? "Windows *VersionAfterVista*, now with full-featured 3D modeling and animation software built in!", followed by lawsuits from the people who bring us Lightwave, Maya, etc... ;)
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wow, I got to say they realy improved the renderer sence the last version I used.
http://www.hexellent.com/files/80/jupiter_pan.avi (note I only spent about 10 minutes setting that up so forgive the seams in the starfield)
something like that would have taken days to render before, but it got done in only a few hours, also used layered textures that almost never worked out right before, and look at the edge of the sphere, you simply can not make out any polygons, I think they may have finally implemented NURBS properly!
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I guess people are gonna like this one. . .
Bout bloomin time :lol:
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I couldn't download this. The site told me my IP address was blocked. :shaking:
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hmmm...might have to check this out, and maybe retire old 3.2.
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I tried to load a direct X mesh but it was all in pieces and not the whole model visable, just the outer bits...
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I can't play that avi with anything?
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just played with it and yeah...lots of buttons and gadgets. nice thing is the ts 6 setup is pretty familiar, and after some random button pushing i found the view and model moving tools used back in 3.2. the charactor skeleton thing looks handy to actually produce pilot models you can mold to individual cockpits, and the animation system overall looks like it might be nifty to produce cutscenes and such. 3.2 cob and scn import nicely, i have yet to test its compatibility with PCS. pretty nice setup and i cant argue with the price, beats paying what 4-700 bucks retail.
my one b1t@h so far is this....
WHERE THE HELL IS THE HIREARCHY EDITIOR TRUVIEW THING?
do i seriously have to DL that plugin again?
so thats my initial use rundown
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I don't think it came with any of the TS7 series, I recall someone a while back making a comment about using the 3.2 heirarchy editor plugin with 7.5 or so. Not sure where to find it though.
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Shortly after installing and running it, AVG detected a trojan on a previously clean file. And now I can't get rid of it. probably just being paranoid, but meh
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Imagine those guys that just payed $700 or whatever for 7.<6...
I think I might stick with Blender unless TS renders faster - their interface is crap, not to mention how the menu is at the bottom and I couldn't figure out how to switch it to top - but it's good that it's free.
The Blender community is probably going to be all over this one - which means competition, meaning (hopefully) free modelling programs better than the commercial (pay) ones. :)
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I noticed an issue with the interface, when you switch to the 4 view tab at the top, if you switch out of 3D with the little drop down, you don't get 3D as an option to switch it back once you try 1D,2D, 4D options. You have to reset 4 view again.
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just played with it and yeah...lots of buttons and gadgets. nice thing is the ts 6 setup is pretty familiar, and after some random button pushing i found the view and model moving tools used back in 3.2. the charactor skeleton thing looks handy to actually produce pilot models you can mold to individual cockpits, and the animation system overall looks like it might be nifty to produce cutscenes and such. 3.2 cob and scn import nicely, i have yet to test its compatibility with PCS. pretty nice setup and i cant argue with the price, beats paying what 4-700 bucks retail.
my one b1t@h so far is this....
WHERE THE HELL IS THE HIREARCHY EDITIOR TRUVIEW THING?
do i seriously have to DL that plugin again?
so thats my initial use rundown
If you have the old truespace 3 installed you can grab it from there and run it. It seems to work ok.
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sweet! i didn't think it was compatible with 7.6, i'll give that a whirl then.
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At least it is compatible with 6.6... got that one for christmas, meh :-/
Anyway, it sounds like they finally improved the booleans - never could get those stupid things to work correctly, always got that "change boolean precision or model placement" error *yuck* :ick:
(err... or was i just doing something wrong? if you know better, advice would be appreciated :) )
If that's fixed I'd certainly be very happy :) , as that was my main concern with tS so far - and I stopped using blender a long while ago (2002) because it did cause me too much trouble back then :nervous: . By now that might be fixed, but now I'm familiar with the tS interface and tools...
On the other hand, this "non-manifold" or whatever tool someone mentioned above might be worth a try for fixing some old models of mine... :nod:
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what's a boolean anyway? Never figured that one out. I only know the coding terminology (true/false)
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It's the intersection of two objects.
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Yep - you can either add, substract or take only the intersection of two objects. As such it WOULD be a very useful tool - IF only it wouldn't cause me so much trouble... :sigh:
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I dunno, for doing scene setup for pcs2, truespace 3 is far better than 7. Everything seems to be buried and I could never get the wireframe to actually work. :blah:
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Well, you know - some people are actually MODELING with tS; and those certainly can use some improvements...
(hm, didn't DL it yet - will have to do so over the weekend... :rolleyes: )
Sadly now the whole plugins-part of the caligari site is down - maybe some links for people who need the free plugins, e.g. trueview or whatever it was called (that hierarchy-manager), should be posted? :confused: (of course only legal ones [don't know how far their authors restricted downloading, but hopefully the author's sites will still be around somewhere, linking there should be pretty much legal as long as it isn't a direct link to the file] - that's why I mentioned the "free")
Uh, does anyone still know if the Paks (ray, de, fx) can still be bought, and if not, why?? :confused: OK, maybe it isn't needed anymore with this, but I actually had planned to order atleast the dePak during the next months... :nervous:
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God, I had to google to find it on his site.
TrueView 1.5 (http://www.freespacefaq.com/Downloads/TruView.rar)
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Well, thanks :) . Though "people who need them" didn't mean me, as I already have all the free plugins that I'm interested in... It was just thought as a community reference, seeing that someone talked about needing to install it again a bit further up this thread :) .
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Also,
Some random site that actually hosted TS plugins instead of linking to them (http://www.digivision.com.tw/truespace/tsplugin/index.htm)
And in case they ever disappear from those places,
Trueview 1.2 (came with ts32.) (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/files/trueview12.7z)
Trueview 1.5 (same as the one on Kara's site but renamed to match Caligari's naming) (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/files/tview15.zip)
piSceneTool, Primitive Itch doesn't host it anymore (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/files/piSceneTool1_1.zip)
A lot of PI stuff is in that first link.
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Well, you know - some people are actually MODELING with tS; and those certainly can use some improvements...
Oh ya thats definetely an improvement, no question there. BTW how do you get it to go into wireframe and highlight the current object like in 3.2? As is, it's hard to tell whats selected.
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I'm trying to see if I can config the environment controls with it like Rhino.
Of course Rhino 4 is a paid system and awesome with the trial so far.
I always loved it over 3DS Max.
But I'm curious where Microsoft is going with the TS platform since they purchased it and made it free.
Would be interesting if they began working more intensely with the True Space 3D tools in a more standardized intuitive environment.
Their biggest following with Combat Flight Simulator was the add-on development community.
And of course the MSN Gaming Zone in its hey day along with Fighter Ace
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dunno why everyone complains about the truespace UI. I can model/texture in it faster than I can work in any other environment. the rightclick on icons makes lots of sense especially when you move the toolbars around the screen. I recommend people turn off as much new crap as possible and use the ts6 interface in ts7. the new UI got clunkier for n good reason. The actual model/texturing tools are decent.
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After playing around with 7+ i've decided all i need is Truespace 2 and lithunwrap.
:nod:
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Well looking things over here, TS is great for its Heirarchy tools.
It is going to take me some time to figure out texture mapping with it.
With the PCS2 Collada dae support it makes things considerably easier and inexpensive from the time I started looking at making a model for FSO.
Also the pof maxscript, with GMAX has a lot of potential to work the process down to free tools for anyone who wishes to contribute.
I'm just glad I can use Rhino with other tools now.
Hopefull by the end of September I'll have a system figured out :p
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Truespace 5.1 is the BEST Ts version I've seen so far.
7 has got some cool new features, but tehy re-designed hte excellent UI, which was one of hte best things about TS. I'm not impressed with 7.6.
Sticking with 5.1, thank you.
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how good is truspace 7.6's smoothing? is it better than blender's?
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it always was better. 3.2 had autofacets working properly, and that one's from '97...
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Not so. TS and blenders smoothing is actually almost exactly the same in terms of functionality and quality. Neither program has true smoothgroup support, but both do have workarounds. For TS the main workaround is rather tedious and ineffective, but the one I've recently found for blender works beautifully and I've been able to achieve 3ds Max quality smoothing with it.
In blender, you handle the smoothing as an absolute last step, and you do it by in edit mode selecting the groups of faces you want to smooth separately and pressing Y and then yes to 'Split?'. This is essentially forming geometric smooth groups - where if your normals are correct (and you can turn the viewing of normals on in the far right of the edit mode panel) the sections will be given individual smoothing that is far better than what's typically done in TS.
This same workaround is possible with truespace, but with TS' horrendously clunky toolset you are far more prone to breaking things. Ie, there is no 'remove doubles' command that can instantly weld your separated groups all back together if you need to. You'd have to do it manually.
Max wins the smoothing game overall though with it's specialised smoothgroup features.
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well, that is true. do you know how cinema 4D compares to max in that section?
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Not a clue sorry - never even seen the basic layout, though I have tried out and was very impressed with bodypaint 3d - which I understand is based on C4D.
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yes. bodypaint is from what i've gathered basically C4D without the modeller, renderer (not sure) and without support for cinema4D modules.
and i know this doesnt make sense to anyone who didnt try c4d :p
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Then my *guess* would be that it could probably equal max's smoothing systems. Bodypaint is very impressive in terms of flexability and functionality, so C4D is probably moreso. :)
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well, yes, but so far as smoothing goes, i didnt play much with it, too lazy :p
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While looking around for Blender smoothing information with google, I ran across a few Blender-centric sites where someone would mention Max's smoothgroups, and then immediately be told that those smoothgroups are terrible and lead to a bad workflow. Any idea what that means to a non-modeler?
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that blender users on those sites are idiots with extra certificates? ;)
from what you said... it could be meant to say that applying smoothgroups in 3dsmax can disturb your workflow and make you repeat the painfull process over and over again.
the sentence confuses me. bad workflow is if you make a uv map and texture for a model, then revise the model and attempt to apply the same uv to the model.
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the sentence confuses me. bad workflow is if you make a uv map and texture for a model, then revise the model and attempt to apply the same uv to the model.
Indeed - the smoothgroup systems in max seem to me to be rather good in that you can easily reselect and change them as needed without the setup affecting the mesh's continuity in the way this technique in blender does. Ie, the mesh is no longer one continuous solid object, so selecting weird composite areas becomes a *little* annoying. Max doesn't have that problem.
That said I never got enough experience with the max workflow to know for sure what those people would be talking about. ;)
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All I know is TS 7.6 is a major kick in the jollies to try and manipulate the UV mapping in.
I can't even find a scale or move button anywhere in that convoluted mess of an interface when I have the UV editor open.
It only wants to rotate the selection. :hopping:
Sorry, tried Blender too and couldn't get it to select the part to even begin mapping... sigh.....
Going to try GMax and the POF export for it tonight instead, hope I find the interface a bit less obfuscated.
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the sentence confuses me. bad workflow is if you make a uv map and texture for a model, then revise the model and attempt to apply the same uv to the model.
Indeed - the smoothgroup systems in max seem to me to be rather good in that you can easily reselect and change them as needed without the setup affecting the mesh's continuity in the way this technique in blender does. Ie, the mesh is no longer one continuous solid object, so selecting weird composite areas becomes a *little* annoying. Max doesn't have that problem.
That said I never got enough experience with the max workflow to know for sure what those people would be talking about. ;)
i dont think that experience has anything to do with that... the more i think about it the more it sounds like someone talkin outta their asses...
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All I know is TS 7.6 is a major kick in the jollies to try and manipulate the UV mapping in.
I can't even find a scale or move button anywhere in that convoluted mess of an interface when I have the UV editor open.
It only wants to rotate the selection. :hopping:
The Truespace UV mapping toolest is appauling. It is horrendusly slow and clunky to use and manipulate and has none of the typical auto-unwrap, pelt mapping, auto layout arrangment, smart projections, pinning, distortion highlighting and auto reduction, linked selections, alignment tools etc that real modelling tools have. ;)
Sorry, tried Blender too and couldn't get it to select the part to even begin mapping... sigh.....
Going to try GMax and the POF export for it tonight instead, hope I find the interface a bit less obfuscated.
I take it you actually tried 10 seconds in google looking for tutorials on the subject then? :p
Blender is well known for not having a friendly looking interface, but it's not actually all that hard to get to know. The true workflow is simple and fast - based primarily around hotkeys, and the controls are all very consistant usage wise. The main problem is learning those keys for those controls - and that's really just something that affects how fast you model/UV map rather than the capabilities of the program. There are hundreds of tutorials of varying quality all over the net. :)
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Thanks Vasudan, I read a few of your posts today on the subject actually and started looking at the tutorials.
I want to work on it just having some neck problems right now so my patience has been really short.
Just wanted to stop by and thank you great guys for all the advice and help.
I have a vertabrae out in my neck from spending too much time in front of the PC I imagine.
Between work and home 12-16 hrs is too much, so I'm waiting for my Thai massage appointment on Friday.
Nothing like a 90 lbs Thai girl working you over like WWF to fix what ails ya :p
Actually she is a licensed Osteopathic Dr. and a friend of my girlfriends so I always have to joke around with her.
When I was in Thailand I could spend $50 and get worked over by them for hours, really an awesome experience to be in that region. You ever get the chance, do not even hesitate! A truly wonderful country and culture!
Anyway back to the topic, I just got Maya 6.5 installed so I'm going to check it out as well for texture mapping.
I'm just going to do each part individually in separate files then bring them into one model before I start on hierarchy.
Still itching to try the POF export script on Gmax too.
Have a great evening! :D
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Heh, I typed in bs contact info and a bs email address and it took me right to the download page. ;)
I never was good at modeling but at least it's something to play with.
Free = good
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Actually you can do selective smoothing in blender now. Just mark whichever edges you want to be sharp and apply an Edgesplit modifier.
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Actually you can do selective smoothing in blender now. Just mark whichever edges you want to be sharp and apply an Edgesplit modifier.
Thanks :yes: - just what I'm needing. ;)
Also under "mesh tools more" clicking on Draw Sharp will show those edges in red.
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Actually you can do selective smoothing in blender now. Just mark whichever edges you want to be sharp and apply an Edgesplit modifier.
Oh, so that's the actual 'sharp' edge support I saw people talking about. Seems to work perfectly. :)
I assumed they were talking either about the old autosmooth or the edge splitting method I described. Well that certainly brings blender a lot futher up in the smoothing game. I'd say it either equals or surpasses Max now.
Thanks man. :D
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So it's like the opposite of a smoothgroup? You make sharp 'groups'? Except they don't have to be groups since they're not sharp in relation to another set of edges.
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I just finally figured out Lithunwrap :ick:
Man I jave been going about this all wrong. Finally this stuff works!
(or at least I finally got my head around how it works.)
Has anyone else had trouble with the TrueView plugin with TS 7.6?
It seems to arbitrarily disable selection and renaming on items until I change their hierarchy?
I wish I could actually export the Weighted Paint image as a UV bitmap from Blender?
The color ranges could really do some cool stuff in PSP 7.
Regardless I finally figured out how to map just about anything with Lithunwrap, now just to begin painting my textures with fills gradients and weathering....
I managed to get Deep Exploration for $89 on student discount too so I'm pretty happy right now.
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Which version of the plugin are you using?
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the trueview plugin often does not display the most up to date names in its interface.
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TrueView 1.5
I'm using Vista Ultimate 32 bit also, so there is potential for odd bugs in the gui.
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All of the video tutorials for tS 7.x and older versions are now free downloads. So are the tS3 and tS4 non-video tutorials.
I'm still using 6.6. I'd like to get a copy of the Conversions Pack 2.1 for it. Conversions Pack 2.0 does not work with 6.6. :( If version 2.0 is installed with tS 6.5, installing the tS 6.6 update removes CP 2.0.
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Ts 3 & 4 tutorials? ^_^