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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: NickM on July 30, 2008, 11:58:29 pm

Title: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: NickM on July 30, 2008, 11:58:29 pm
Guys:

I love this game for sure but---something I read on the Wing Commander side of things made me wonder: can the Terran and/or Vasudan bombers be modified so they can launch their ENTIRE payload of whatever cap ship killing bomb/torp at one target? I think I read that some of the landesreich's bombers were modified shuttles who could salvo a dozen++ torps at a single target :eek:; in any case you can get around the minute long reload time for some of the bigger bombs;

TiA

nickm
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Droid803 on July 31, 2008, 12:00:46 am
Swarm with an obscenely high launch number so that it will deplete your bank with one go?

The Gaganas and Peregrines do that to an extent in INFR1 with their HellStorm X. Its damn hard to intercept.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Solatar on July 31, 2008, 12:07:52 am
That'd be an interesting thing to add. The way I understood it now the "bombs" are really torpedos which much individually lock on and arm. It could add a choice for bomber pilots; one destructive thing you can fire off and get shot down, or ten less destructive dumbfire bombs you can lob off real quick.

I think the swarm idea is probably the best way to achieve it. Or possibly just have a very low refire rate (like the tempest/fury). That way you could still save your ammo; fire off half at a cruiser, and the second half later instead of wasting all your bombs on one cruiser/transport that only needs a few to go down.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: bfobar on July 31, 2008, 02:01:07 am
I always thought that dumbfire bombs were amiss in the main campaigns. I remember there was the good vasudan FS1 campaign (name escapes me) where the author modded up some big rockets that did a load of damage that could only be mounted on bombers. I thought those things were the bees knees.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 31, 2008, 02:01:19 am
Swarm with an obscenely high launch number so that it will deplete your bank with one go?

The Gaganas and Peregrines do that to an extent in INFR1 with their HellStorm X. Its damn hard to intercept.

I thought the Hell Storm X was a single torpedo that splits into many a short while after launch. They hurt the Rhemet real bad, even on the lowest difficulty level. :nod:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: S-99 on July 31, 2008, 02:33:58 am
In fs, you can launch double munitions at most. Sounds like a 3rd launching mode would be nice to have :yes: On the other hand i don't see it so effective anyhow. The bombing missions in fs aren't the type where launching all of your bombs at once would do anything good besides being a waste.

If you launch all of your munitions at once chances are what you were firing at originally like a corvette or destroyer wont be dead after you're done. Then you'll be left behind running away slowly for a reload while all of the other turrets and subsystems that you didn't destroy are still out there to get you.

Launching everything at once is horrible unless you are for sure pitted against a target you can take out with all of those bombs at once. Otherwise like i said. All of those turrets and subsystems you didn't destroy on your target are still out there to get you. Don't imagine it as destroying target, but more so imagine it as surgically lopping the limbs off your target (taking out every beam and flak and engines). This is great because a weaponless disabled ship is just as good as a destroyed one in my day. Chances are totally disabling the target like i mentioned will probably seriously damage and or destroy the ship anyway. FS just isn't the type of game for launching every single bomb at once (which wouldn't yield anything very good in fs really).
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 31, 2008, 03:06:12 am
Actually, S-99, releasing everything at once can be deadly if they're fired all over the place. The thing about the Peregrines and Gaganas in INFR1 is that, when they fire their Hell Storm Xs, the bombs are spaced a good distance away from each other. If you shoot them too near, all will explode and kill you, but if you stay too far away, you have to watch your speed, your six, and shoot all the bombs down.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Wanderer on July 31, 2008, 07:48:25 am
There is already salvo mode flag in the works... both for ai as well as for the player.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 31, 2008, 09:22:45 am
There is already salvo mode flag in the works... both for ai as well as for the player.
When you say "salvo", do you mean it in the sense of "Tornado" and "Hornet"? :drevil:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Wanderer on July 31, 2008, 09:32:22 am
No.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Droid803 on July 31, 2008, 11:42:30 am
Swarm with an obscenely high launch number so that it will deplete your bank with one go?

The Gaganas and Peregrines do that to an extent in INFR1 with their HellStorm X. Its damn hard to intercept.
I thought the Hell Storm X was a single torpedo that splits into many a short while after launch. They hurt the Rhemet real bad, even on the lowest difficulty level. :nod:

Well, in S:AH, when you get to use the Hellstorm X, you see that it has like...6 or so per bank, and that it gets used up pretty quick.
(as in one or two passes, as opposed to three-six if they split into smaller ones).
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 31, 2008, 08:52:37 pm
There is already salvo mode flag in the works... both for ai as well as for the player.
I think Wanderer feels sad because its like no one's noticed his salvo code.

When you say "salvo", do you mean it in the sense of "Tornado" and "Hornet"? :drevil:
The Tornado uses the corkscrew flag and the Hornet uses the swarm flag, so they don't even use the same thing.

Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: NickM on July 31, 2008, 09:08:44 pm
I must be MORE specific: ALL the torps/bombs lock on before I fire them all....make a heck of a "boom"!

nickm
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 31, 2008, 09:37:41 pm
Well, just use the salvo flag then, and set homing to true and to aspect. And add no dumbfire flags. That way you'll be able to loose everything at one go.

If what you want is a third firing mode, however, that one will require a code change.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Excalibur on July 31, 2008, 10:52:41 pm
What about 4 bomb banks?
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on July 31, 2008, 11:03:46 pm
On what missile is the salvo flag used?

What about 4 bomb banks?

:wtf:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Excalibur on August 01, 2008, 12:39:35 am
Time for a quick quith: the Ursa and Bone(hammer)head bombers have three, they are bombers, so it is right to call them bomb banks, not missile banks?

Please circle one:
                                                     T                        F
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Snail on August 01, 2008, 12:41:37 am
False, because the bomb banks can still carry missiles? :wtf:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Excalibur on August 01, 2008, 12:44:07 am
Yes, but surely he knows what I'm talking about...

unless he thought they were a money bank filled with bombs...
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 01, 2008, 10:46:34 am
I know what bomb banks are. I'm just questioning the logic of having so many banks on a fighter with a :wtf: smiley.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Wanderer on August 01, 2008, 12:51:33 pm
There is already salvo mode flag in the works... both for ai as well as for the player.
I think Wanderer feels sad because its like no one's noticed his salvo code.
Code for salvo mode secondaries for fighters and bombers is not mine... not that it would be in trunk either
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 01, 2008, 01:55:29 pm
What about 4 bomb banks?
If you have more than 3 secondary banks, and more than 2 primary banks, FSO starts going wonky.

On what missile is the salvo flag used?
To the best of my knowledge; none. The salvo flag is SCP addition.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Droid803 on August 01, 2008, 08:20:15 pm
No...

You can have 3 primary banks and 4 missile bays fine.
The Seraphim does not make FSO wonky!

The only thing that may possibly go wrong is the HUD in-flight (a little overlap), at most. It'll run without problem otherwise. You can even fly a Seraphim just fine.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 01, 2008, 11:27:52 pm
Huh. I seem to remember some one saying more that 2 primary banks for the player makes FSO wonky.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on August 02, 2008, 01:05:42 am
Huh. I seem to remember some one saying more that 2 primary banks for the player makes FSO wonky.

Only in multi player.  Single works. 
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 02, 2008, 01:25:45 am
If you have more than two primaries and three secondaries, the list will extend beyond the HUD border designed for it. There shouldn't be a problem (cue the Minbari fighters of TBP).
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: S-99 on August 02, 2008, 04:14:24 pm
Actually, S-99, releasing everything at once can be deadly if they're fired all over the place. The thing about the Peregrines and Gaganas in INFR1 is that, when they fire their Hell Storm Xs, the bombs are spaced a good distance away from each other. If you shoot them too near, all will explode and kill you, but if you stay too far away, you have to watch your speed, your six, and shoot all the bombs down.

The only way i see this being really effective is if there's a multi targeting mode for bombs. Target one thing, target another, another, and another, then launch. Bombing ships is really only as effective as all the weak spots you go for, and even better if you go for them simultaneously. That'd still be hard to shoot down and so forth. I was just curious as the effectiveness and point of launching all your bombs at once at one target. Multiple target would be so much better. You could like take out a whole bunch of turrets at once as opposed to shooting 4 bombs or so at one turret when usually one bomb can do the job of taking out a turret. That's all my main beef is here.

Will this result in deadly effeciency like it can or will it just be a dumb feature?
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 02, 2008, 10:53:00 pm
I don't know. I was playing DEM the other day (on Very Easy), and I had ~ + W activated, so all my bombers flew in a cluster and launched their Cyclops torpedoes at a Moloch as one. The corvette blew up some of the warheads, but it still died anyway. :drevil:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: bfobar on August 03, 2008, 09:13:02 pm
~ + W ??
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 04, 2008, 05:54:47 am
~ + W ??

Wow, at least you play fair. ;)
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Snail on August 04, 2008, 07:14:54 am
~ + W ??
Infinite weapons cheat. (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Cheats)
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Excalibur on August 04, 2008, 07:54:10 pm
Well, 4 bomb/-missile- banks has a use if you need to launch lots of Helios' like in Bearbaiting and you don't need to launch 10 at one turret.

As for ` + W, use Rockeyes for fighters....and flak for primary, fire at a SF Dragon and change to it's view...
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 04, 2008, 08:33:05 pm
Try shooting dual Trebuchets at a Nahema and change your view to that Shivan bomber. :drevil:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: bfobar on August 04, 2008, 09:22:01 pm
If I were redoing FS2 (that means what I will say is NOT CANON, I KNOW.) I'd make trebs bomb targetable. They'd be really hard to shoot down anyway, but at least everything slower than a herc has a fighting chance of surviving a dual treb launch.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 04, 2008, 09:40:26 pm
Actually, anything has a chance of surviving a dual Treb launch if you're on the ball enough to notice a pair of them coming straight at you.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Droid803 on August 04, 2008, 09:41:57 pm
Surviving a dual treb HIT however, is a different story.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: phreak on August 04, 2008, 09:55:29 pm
AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55032.0.html
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,43316.0.html
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 04, 2008, 09:55:49 pm
Surviving a dual treb HIT however, is a different story.
Yep. The only reason dual Trebs are so effective is that the AI only starts dodging when the missile is within 600m, which is too late by then.

AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55032.0.html
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,43316.0.html
Uh ... what? Oh, you're salvo code, yea I know.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 04, 2008, 10:31:52 pm
That Aeolus is too shiny, but it looks cool nonetheless.

/me looks at the Moloch.

Mario: TOAST.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: bfobar on August 04, 2008, 11:15:11 pm
Actually, anything has a chance of surviving a dual Treb launch if you're on the ball enough to notice a pair of them coming straight at you.

Well yeah. You're alpha 1. I think I should qualify targetable trebs as being useful for cap ships so peeling every turret off of a ship at 5 clicks isn't quite so easy if their turrets had a chance to try shooting them down. I guess I could modify the treb in the tables to make it effectively a bomb and see if the AI can hit one. Or if I could tag one with a perseus and a morning star for that matter. It could make for a fun escort mission mod to try to shoot down trebs before they hose your cruiser. Or it could suck.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 05, 2008, 01:11:31 am
The AI rarely uses Trebs anyway. Besides, using PHREAK'S SALVO CODE we could just dump half a dozen Trebs from one side, and half a dozen Cyclopses from another side...
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 05, 2008, 01:36:35 am
The AI rarely uses Trebs anyway. Besides, using PHREAK'S SALVO CODE we could just dump half a dozen Trebs from one side, and half a dozen Cyclopses from another side...

Ouch
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Excalibur on August 07, 2008, 12:41:50 am
Trebs can't turn that quick, so I don't see why you can't dodge from 600m, but the AI dodge stupidly...
and for extra realism, every bomb/missile should be destroyable by getting hit, just not targetable, or else major annoyance will occur.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2008, 01:54:29 am
and for extra realism, every bomb/missile should be destroyable by getting hit, just not targetable, or else major annoyance will occur.
That would slow the game down to a crawl. Imagine the FPS when a wing of Hercs launch a few dual-fired Hornets.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 07, 2008, 01:57:39 am
and for extra realism, every bomb/missile should be destroyable by getting hit, just not targetable, or else major annoyance will occur.
That would slow the game down to a crawl. Imagine the FPS when a wing of Hercs launch a few dual-fired Hornets.

One of the ships was firing a continuous volley of Hornets in the FreeSpace 2 Trailer. :nervous:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 07, 2008, 02:11:56 am
extra realism, every bomb/missile should be destroyable by getting hit, just not targetable, or else major annoyance will occur.
Then flak guns would be overpowered too. The AoE they deal will just blank out missile volleys.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Mars on August 07, 2008, 02:13:22 am
Bombs and missiles actually need to get hit by the projectile in order to be destroyed, so flak is pretty awful at taking them out.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 07, 2008, 02:14:59 am
Still, Snail's point is valid. It would slow the game down to a crawl, detecting collisions for the individual missiles and stuff.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Snail on August 07, 2008, 02:54:04 am
Bombs and missiles actually need to get hit by the projectile in order to be destroyed, so flak is pretty awful at taking them out.
Actually, bombs have a large radius that the game registers as a direct hit, even if your projectile never touched the missile model itself.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 07, 2008, 04:45:29 am
No wonder they explode when my shots miss them. :lol:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 07, 2008, 06:14:46 pm
Try shooting dual Trebuchets at a Nahema and change your view to that Shivan bomber. :drevil:

Scorpio 1 is about to have a very bad day.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ngtm1r/fs2_open_r2005-07-2006-19-10-25.jpg)
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 07, 2008, 10:38:41 pm
Ahh ha ha...death in its face. :wakka:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 08, 2008, 04:33:01 am
Someone should do that with the salvo code :wakka:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 08, 2008, 05:08:18 am
Or is it something like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEdypRB7bs)? :drevil:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Stormkeeper on August 08, 2008, 06:02:10 am
I was wondering what was the string of blue lights at the start. :lol:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Excalibur on August 11, 2008, 12:42:44 am
and for extra realism, every bomb/missile should be destroyable by getting hit, just not targetable, or else major annoyance will occur.
That would slow the game down to a crawl. Imagine the FPS when a wing of Hercs launch a few dual-fired Hornets.

One of the ships was firing a continuous volley of Hornets in the FreeSpace 2 Trailer. :nervous:

Maras and Basilisks like to do that in-game. And when there is one Ashema left in Bearbaiting, I launch Helios' at it and watch it fly around, then it makes a mistake, i.e. turns sharply because it is 200m away from the bomb and has a head-on...but of course it doesn't die 'cause it has shields.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 11, 2008, 02:36:24 am
No wonder a Cyclops never kills a fighter...because of shields. :lol:
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Mars on August 11, 2008, 03:35:49 am
I've killed a couple disabled maras with Cyclopses before
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 11, 2008, 03:38:06 am
No, it works sometimes, but most of the time, it doesn't. And, uh, Mars, the ones I tried to destroy were moving. ;)
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Snail on August 11, 2008, 03:38:22 am
Well, I'm sure in FS1 the first few missions where you have no shields, you can kill lots of Vasudans by giving yourself Harbingers.
Title: Re: Can the bombers' payloads be modified to do the following?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 11, 2008, 03:56:15 am
Well, I'm sure in FS1 the first few missions where you have no shields, you can kill lots of Vasudans by giving yourself Harbingers.

Ah, that... :drevil: