Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: JGZinv on September 24, 2008, 12:20:08 pm
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(I know there's a few anime fans here... so figured this may be of interest)
The programming block that revolutionized anime in the US
and perhaps even across the world outside of Japan ran it's last
showing Sept 20th.
I've followed them since their earliest days of Moltar and Tom, with ThunderCats and Sailor Moon....
with the group adding their own funky beat flair to a world of boring tv.
"As of September 20, 2008, Cartoon Network has canceled the block and aired its final transmission. Employees who worked on the block will be going to other parts of the channel. Anime will be mostly handled by Adult Swim, and there will be an action block replacing Toonami on Friday nights afterwards. Toonami Jetstream will remain without the Toonami name. At the end of Toonami's final airing, the host, voiced by Steven Blum, ended the block with a final monologue and then "bang", echoing the final word of his character Spike Spiegel at the end of Cowboy Bebop."
You can watch the final farewell video's here....
http://www.toonamiarsenal.com/ (http://www.toonamiarsenal.com/)
Info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toonami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toonami)
If you want anything from the archive sections at TDA... better get it while you can.
*salutes*
In memory of 'bringing you a better cartoon show'...
you will be sorely missed.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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**** you guys the dub for Gundam Wing was actually pretty good!
(seriously, the narrator was the goddamn Bentusi!)
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Bonus points for them showing the uncut episodes (at later times, but still, at least they did show them).
Too bad. Toonami was pretty much the most awesome thing on TV when I was a kid, and I have naught but fond memories of it. Haven't seen it in years, though, so I don't know if it declined in recent years.
DragonBall, Gundam Wing, Zoids, Outlaw Star... they were my source for anime.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
...lolno. There have been a minuscule number of truly bad dubs over at least the past ten years, and there have been a fair share of English casts that have easily surpassed their Japanese counterparts. (See: Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex, Wolf's Rain, etc, etc.) It all comes down to personal preference in the end; some of us like hearing audio in our native language, some of us like reading text at the bottom of a screen, and a few of us know enough Japanese to make either option needless. It's the same damn series no matter how you watch it.
Anyways, I kind of wish I had been a Toonami fan, so I could justify feeling as bummed as I do that it's gone. It had one hell of a run and introduced a whole slew of people to the world of anime. At least Steve Blum gave it a good send-off. Bang.
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I find that humour doesn't translate very well without a dub.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
ditto. i hate anime... well, zoids was cool, but i hate how everyone in them is just another idiot with a dirty balloon face.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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I eat mop who
Srsly. Some people like anime. Some people don't. Some people mourn the loss of Toonami. Some people don't. Hell, some anime fans might not mourn the loss of Toonami since they have had no access to it in the first place.
Life goes on. Until you die.
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Pretty much gave up on it a long time ago.
Also, lol at the dub haters.
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Also, lol at the dub haters.
Watch the Death Note dub that Adult Swim has, then watch it subbed. Aside from getting better (suited) voices, you get dialogue that doesn't sound like it was churned out by middle-school students. ;)
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Also, lol at the dub haters.
Watch the Death Note dub that Adult Swim has, then watch it subbed. Aside from getting better (suited) voices, you get dialogue that doesn't sound like it was churned out by middle-school students. ;)
Why watch death note at all?
Death note is like a freaking audio book. As are many recent anime in my experience.
Just read the Manga.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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Watch the Death Note dub that Adult Swim has, then watch it subbed. Aside from getting better (suited) voices, you get dialogue that doesn't sound like it was churned out by middle-school students. ;)
Death Note is one of the best-cast dubs in the past few years. L in particular is absolutely fantastic. And the middle-school dialogue is thoroughly a function of the generally-mediocre source material. :p
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Although I haven't watched it in years, and from the few glimpses I saw while my little brother watched, it seemed like a shadow of its former self... I'm still sad to see it go.
Farewell Absolution. Farewell Tom! You're gonna carry that weight. :(
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I'll be honest, I thought it was canceled YEARS ago.
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I huge Gundam fan iv seen some of them in Japanese and then saw them in English i enjoy the show much more when i don't have to read sub title even if the dubbing is bad i get used to it. to each there own i guess. and for Toonami its been about 3 years since i watch it. im sure it will be missed
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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I'll be honest, I thought it was canceled YEARS ago.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
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*Bunch of pyramid quoting garbage beyond the scope of abuse*
Why in God's name are you still here?
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plz stop quoting the one that someone cheated on.
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Watch the Death Note dub that Adult Swim has, then watch it subbed. Aside from getting better (suited) voices, you get dialogue that doesn't sound like it was churned out by middle-school students. ;)
Death note should be a friggin' novel, no voices will ever change that.
And in any case, I find that almost without exception, Japanese voices suck (dear god, the pitch people, the friggin' pitch!), and subbing it annoys the suspension of disbelief, something most shows have difficulty recovering from when animated.
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Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
I'll be honest, I thought it was canceled YEARS ago.
Amusingly, the current advert is for manga.
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Huzzah for Canadians! We don't know what we're missing!
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To be honest, I've found dubbs to be generally worse on the ears than originals. Of course, the general opinion on Odex's subs are pretty obvious.
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Wow this thread needs to be locked before someone posts another friggin lameass quote post.
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EDIT: Ha, totally didn't mean to get that in the quotes, but still awesome! :D
Thank god.
The less dubbing in the world the better.
Too late! :p
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I think my preference depends on how well the dub was done.
The Dubs for Evangelion and Gundam wing are far superior to the originals Chrono Crusade, DNAngel and Full Metal Panic are among the most superb. Tenchi Muyo OVA was also very good.
The oooold ADV dub for Street Fighter IIV (found on the old VHS tapes) was pretty bad, but some of the actors did good job.
The absolute worst dub has to be Sonic the Movie. No Jaleel White or Ryan Drummond as sonic, No Corey Bringas as Tails, No Scott Dreier as Knuckles and - worst of all - no Long John Baldry, Jim Cummings or Deem Bristow as Dr Robotnik...Just complete crap...Though i liked the attitude that kid gave tails in the move...
Now i do admit that sometimes jokes get lost in translation.
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Now i do admit that sometimes jokes get lost in translation.
Sadly true.
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Stop the chain-quoting, please. We don't need another Milk thread. :rolleyes:
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I've only ever seen one dub that I thought was equal to (and actually quite a bit better than) the original. That would have to be Ghost in the Shell: SAC.
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I only knew a bit about Toonami through Cartoon Network, but I usually get my anime stuff independently.
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Stop the chain-quoting, please. We don't need another Milk thread. :rolleyes:
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Stop the chain-quoting, please. We don't need another Milk thread. :rolleyes:
:drevil:
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Stop the chain-quoting, please. We don't need another Milk thread. :rolleyes:
:drevil:
(http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/7035.jpg)
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Seriously, can we stop the ****ing quoting? It's really getting on my ****ing nerves, so can you stop acting like ****s and use the thread normally?
I remember watching (a slightly nerfed) Toonami down on the Aussie Cartoon Network. It was good watching, they had a lot of shows that i'd never had easy access to before. Of course, they also had a lot of **** shows that i'd never had access to before, either. But hey, you've got to wade through the crap to get to the good stuff.
Even though I owe much more to Adult Swim for introducing me to the Anime wonders of Fullmetal Alchemist and Cowboy Bebop, Toonami was a quality. It will be missed.
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I eat mop who
Srsly. Some people like anime. Some people don't. Some people mourn the loss of Toonami. Some people don't. Hell, some anime fans might not mourn the loss of Toonami since they have had no access to it in the first place.
Life goes on. Until you die.
Unless you're the Nameless One. Then you have a problem.
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/me agrees with Mefustae.
Stop the stupid quoting already. It's impossible to tell what the original quote was anymore anyway.
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Stop the stupid quoting already. It's impossible to tell what the original quote was anymore anyway.
Which is why I tampered with the original "Toonami soxor my roxor" post while quoting it for the toomanyeth time. Just to show that most people can't see the difference.
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I'd monkey the lot o' ye if I had my druthers. :p
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Can one of the mods lock this thing already... it's getting out of hand
and the purpose of informing those who might have cared something about the
old programming has been achieved - and will continue to do so in being locked.
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oh STFU.
anyhow, I hadn't watched it in years, I think sometime after the second season of Naruto it had lost any and all of it's usefulness, to me. I have checked on it from time to time, and it has been fairly solid fail ever sence. I think the recent change of CN's general programing choices of pushing cheapness and quantity over quality is to blame, as many have mentioned "I haven't watched in a few years" I do believe this correlates somehow with the cancellation, I think I realized CN was on a downward spiral when the canceled Megus XLR, that was the last original CN cartoon I can remember liking. as many of you may not have realized AS was a spinnoff of toonami, those late night showings of uncut episodes, where do you think the idea of an adult rated programming block came from? hopefully this will be a wakeup call for the people running AS to get there acts together and start doing it right again before it's too late for them.
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oh STFU.
anyhow, I hadn't watched it in years, I think sometime after the second season of Naruto it had lost any and all of it's usefulness, to me. I have checked on it from time to time, and it has been fairly solid fail ever sence. I think the recent change of CN's general programing choices of pushing cheapness and quantity over quality is to blame, as many have mentioned "I haven't watched in a few years" I do believe this correlates somehow with the cancellation, I think I realized CN was on a downward spiral when the canceled Megus XLR, that was the last original CN cartoon I can remember liking. as many of you may not have realized AS was a spinnoff of toonami, those late night showings of uncut episodes, where do you think the idea of an adult rated programming block came from? hopefully this will be a wakeup call for the people running AS to get there acts together and start doing it right again before it's too late for them.
I doubt it. What with Superjail, Tim & Eric $%#$ a dog (or whatever they call it), and the like being so popular.
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I'll give credit where credit is due: I'm thankful for Toonami. Because without it, I wouldn't have been introduced to Anime on a significant level, let alone ReBoot.
By the way, if you don't know what ReBoot is, you should hang yourself for missing out on one of the best series ever to grace radio and cable broadcasting.
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ReBoot. That name rings a bell. I think I've watched it before a long time ago. Refresh my mind; whats it about?
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Ah, I watched ReBoot last time too. I know it has something to do with technology, but that's it. :blah:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReBoot
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Oh THAT show. Yea, I loved it man. Awesomness. One of my favorite shows.
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First CGI show ever.
Best part is with the little baby number 1 craps his diaper. Solid gold.
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Best part is with the little baby number 1 craps his diaper. Solid gold.
:yes:
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reboot really suprized me, it started out really REALLY ****ty, but turned into epic win at such a rate it nearly gave me whiplash.
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My regret is that I was too young to understand what was going on.
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hopefully this will be a wakeup call for the people running AS to get there acts together and start doing it right again before it's too late for them.
Nope. Anime has been off weekdays for a long time, and Action Saturdays are a hair's breadth from being totally dead. A shame they can't remember their roots.
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Love ReBoot. Its one of the staples of my Childhood. Wish theyd release it on DVD over here in england. We just got the the first 4 episodes on 2 videos... Then ITV only showed the first 9-10 episodes of season 3. I never got to see how it ended until i discovered Youtube
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Love ReBoot. Its one of the staples of my Childhood. Wish theyd release it on DVD over here in england. We just got the the first 4 episodes on 2 videos... Then ITV only showed the first 9-10 episodes of season 3. I never got to see how it ended until i discovered Youtube
Come to think of it, I've never seen its ending either.
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I don't think I have either. They stopped airing it halfway, like what they did to Rurouni Kenshin (I dislike the name "Samurai X" for whatever reason).
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I think i'll watch some reboot on youtube :) cheers for the nostalgia reminder Terran Emperor :nod:
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Nope. Anime has been off weekdays for a long time, and Action Saturdays are a hair's breadth from being totally dead. A shame they can't remember their roots.
Man, I remember before Toonami. Action Planet. Batman TAS, Speed Racer, stuff like that.
Of course, the only one I would watch now is Batman TAS...
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The only good Batman cartoon is the early 90s rendition. What an opening score!
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The only good Batman cartoon is the early 90s rendition. What an opening score!
Well, if you seek to the last ten seconds of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5AldgYYJdo), you'll find something interesting, but you might as well watch everything before it as well. :)
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The only good Batman cartoon is the early 90s rendition. What an opening score!
The one where everyone had super square chins and Mark Hamil as the Joker ? That was a great series.
My interest in Anime wained pretty heavily a few years ago, save for a mini nostalgia trip recently. Years ago, places like Toonami were the only way to see shows like DBZ. The only other anime about were Akira repeats on domestic channels @ 2am.
I've found Amazon is a great source for the older skool Manga Video/Anime VHS videos. I recently got Wings of Honneamise, Geno Cyber 1-3 and Batman for just a couple of £ each!
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I prefer late '80 and early '90 anime made during the "OVA Boom!".
The reason is simple: there was tons of money going around, and it really shows in the productions quality. Some of the shows made nowadays may be more "shiny" (...and some of them I love like Kara no Kyoukai, GITSSAC, Makoto Shinkai's work etc.) but if you go for sheer artistic effort, a great portion of the winners and runner ups would be from the era of the "OVA Boom!".
Beyond mere prettiness there was still a lot of room for experimentation. With the advent of direct to video (OVA) sales the directors were freed from the grasp of syndicated television and a lot more varied and mature (...and not strictly in a violent or pornographic sense) were explored.
Stuff like:
- 3x3 Eyes
- Akira
- Ayashiro no Ceres
- Armitage III
- Blue Submarine No. 6
- Bubblegum Crisis
- Cyber City Oedo
- Detonator Orgun
- Gall Force (in some of its various iterations!....there are a lot!)
- Gun Smith Cats
- Gunbuster
- GUNNM (aka Battle Angel Alita)
- Heroic Legend of Arslan
- Iczer 1
- Key the Metal Idol
- Macross Plus
- Mobile Suit Gundam 0080
- Nausicaa
- Ninja Scroll
- Serial Experiments Lain
- Slayers
- Sol Bianca
- Soul Taker
- Starship Girl Yamamoto Yohko
- Record of Lodoss War
- Robot Carnival
- Roujin Z
- The Cockpit
- The Five Star Stories
- Toward Terra (...that old movie, not the brand spanking new, shiny series)
- Vampire Hunter D (...once again the old one)
- Vampire Princess Miyu
- Venus Wars
- Wings of Honneamise
I also intentionally left out a lot of titles from the ealry '90 and concentrated on "old-school stuff".
Some of these shows were genre defining, others were superb executions of earlier conventions with a care and sheen unseen to date. Others introduced new themes, some were very raw or sophisticated in their narration. Even old school "legends" of the industry like Leji Matsumoto put something brand new on the table while the now "venerated" new legends like Ghibli or Gainax were getting their feet wet in this period.
Simply put, there a plethora of ideas and themes, a myriad modes of expression, genres and artistic styles in use. Even animes from the same studio (or even episodes in the same series like the slow in making BGC OVA) could have a "very different look" as time went on and artistic techniques and concepts evolved over the years.
This eventually spilled over into TV broadcasts as well and is the prime reason why I find an interesting anime show every once in a while, whereas it can take decades before I find something so captivating from the vaults of western animation that is still hamstrung by its conventions and strict adherence to syndicated television codes of conduct.
To me, an anime enthusiasts and affenctionade, watching this transformation on and of itself could be entertaining enough, but it never was and never has been a singular movement, different styles and techniques are in use to date.
This is something that western animation never possessed until the CN & Nickelodeon advent of "wacky" shows. Even today western shows are a lot more uniform in their look and styles than anime has ever been.
However anime is not "superior", it's merely different. Anime shows today tend to show a lot less variety, producers rarely take risks and therefore most shows are just reruns or remakes of old ideas and themes...entertaining but not that interesting or evoking.
It's also possible that I'm merely perceiving the accumulated gems from an era and am yet to find the gems made right now, but all in all I still find more "great" titles from that time than now.
The difference is almost a whole magnitude, so I still believe I'm onto something.
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Ah, I watched ReBoot last time too. I know it has something to do with technology, but that's it. :blah:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReBoot
I was a only a little boy when I used to watch it... *_*
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Good list there Flaser. :yes:
I'd have to add (no doubt I've forgotten loads):
Patlabor 1 & 2
Street Fighter - The Movie
Dominion Tank Police (Earlier versions)
Ghost in the Shell (not a huge fan)
Full Metal Panic (Earlier versions)
and for sheer nostalgia, if nothing else, The Guyver, Devilman and Fist of the North Star.
Can you remember what it was that first brought anime/manga to your attention ? Even now I cam vividly recall the first time I saw Akira and my subsequent "reminder" a few years later. The early 90s was "my" period too. I lost interest just as Neon Genesis Evangelion went big.
Oh hey, does anyone remember a big robot show set around an alternate WWII (IIRC) with steam powered mecha ? 'think it came out around roughly the same time as the original Patlabor movies. Maybe '94/95 ish ?
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Good list there Flaser. :yes:
I'd have to add (no doubt I've forgotten loads):
Patlabor 1 & 2
Street Fighter - The Movie
Dominion Tank Police (Earlier versions)
Ghost in the Shell (not a huge fan)
and for sheer nostalgia, if nothing else, The Guyver, Devilman and Fist of the North Star.
Can you remember what it was that first brought anime/manga to your attention ? Even now I cam vividly recall the first time I saw Akira and my subsequent "reminder" a few years later. The early 90s was "my" period too. I lost interest just as Neon Genesis Evangelion went big.
Oh hey, does anyone remember a big robot show set around an alternate WWII (IIRC) with steam powered mecha ? 'think it came out around roughly the same time as the original Patlabor movies. Maybe '94/95 ish ?
Ring of red?
Also Venus wars was "bang on" :yes:
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Good list there Flaser. :yes:
I'd have to add (no doubt I've forgotten loads):
Patlabor 1 & 2
Street Fighter - The Movie
Dominion Tank Police (Earlier versions)
Ghost in the Shell (not a huge fan)
and for sheer nostalgia, if nothing else, The Guyver, Devilman and Fist of the North Star.
Can you remember what it was that first brought anime/manga to your attention ? Even now I cam vividly recall the first time I saw Akira and my subsequent "reminder" a few years later. The early 90s was "my" period too. I lost interest just as Neon Genesis Evangelion went big.
Oh hey, does anyone remember a big robot show set around an alternate WWII (IIRC) with steam powered mecha ? 'think it came out around roughly the same time as the original Patlabor movies. Maybe '94/95 ish ?
Ring of red?
Also Venus wars was "bang on" :yes:
No, I don't think so. Name doesn't ring a bell anyway.
Just bought Venus Wars (ebay) and Battle Angel....(Amazon) :yes:
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Both super excellent happy fun god times ^_^
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Never seen Venus Wars but I always fancied it. IIRC Battle Angel was shown on either BBC2 or C4 a couple of times though I can't really recall much about it.
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I like the oldies like Guyver Genocyber etc, Cyber City OEDO was another good one. Appleseed was a bit iffy, but thats just my view. . . . .Robotech was great for action but htere was a bit too much less than three in it to make it a worthy succsessor to my Transformers fandom at that age.
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I like the oldies like Guyver Genocyber etc, Cyber City OEDO was another good one. Appleseed was a bit iffy, but thats just my view. . . . .Robotech was great for action but htere was a bit too much less than three in it to make it a worthy succsessor to my Transformers fandom at that age.
I couldn't stand Robotech. TSDF Macross is a bit better, but even then, it's still pretty shoddy.
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See i never really got hooked into the Cult of it all so to me, anything witha veritech, is robotech..... I'm sure i'd be crucified for say that on a macross themed forum. (or if Max Sterling reads this) but i was to busy with Akira and ALien three at that poiunt in my life. (at the whopping age of eleven :lol:)
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I remember Guyver, and Patlabor...maybe a bit of Macross but not sure. I never really watched much anime tbh. :nervous: I had friends that were very into anime. Not sure if this quite fits in with the topic or what's regarded as true anime, but does anyone remember the Mysterious Cities of Gold? Late '70s - early '80s French - Japanese co-production. I remember being fond of that one.
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Very much so, it was very cool. Admittedly it came out when i was no more than a baby.
But if anyone wants to check out the intro and more it's on youtube here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbVNZ-cghz0
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The only Macross I've ever paid any attention to was Plus. Macross Plus is an awesome mini-series and you don't need any Macross knowledge to appreciate it.
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I like the oldies like Guyver Genocyber etc, Cyber City OEDO was another good one. Appleseed was a bit iffy, but thats just my view. . . . .Robotech was great for action but htere was a bit too much less than three in it to make it a worthy succsessor to my Transformers fandom at that age.
I couldn't stand Robotech. TSDF Macross is a bit better, but even then, it's still pretty shoddy.
Bah! Blasphemy! Macross is my favourite series.
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I really should watch Macross one of these days. I saw Robotech, and liked it well enough, and everyone says Macross is so much better...
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I really should watch Macross one of these days. I saw Robotech, and liked it well enough, and everyone says Macross is so much better...
's not.
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I really should watch Macross one of these days. I saw Robotech, and liked it well enough, and everyone says Macross is so much better...
's not.
'so so.
In fact, Macross is better than Robotech, so is Southern Cross, so is Mospeada. The thing is you watch Robotech, and some character says something, and it makes no sense. And for a moment you're like, what the hell are they talking about? What he said and what his face said are two different things.
ie
In the first or second episode, second I think. The RDF forces in orbit engage the Zentraedi, they use nuclear weapons and basically lay a big smack down on some large zentraedi ships.
In Macross Breetai exclaims "What the heck was that?" (roughly), because nukes are so foreign to the toy soldiers.
In Robotech Breetai exclaims "Hahha, they don't even know how to use their own weapons!! haha" (well no, your ship just got powned, clearly they do know how).
or another example
In Southern Cross, Robotech, the whole premise in Robotech is that it's taking place on Earth. But if you look at the map, It's not earth. It's an alien planet. In fact Southern Cross is the most butchered series of the whole lot. Especially when it gets to this episode where Dana says "we shouldn't hurt them, they're people!" well of course they're people, someone's got to pilot the bad robots. What they don't say is that, in the REAL series, those people are humans and NOT aliens who got captured from some other outpost. So it makes sense to disable them.
And for another thing. the music in Macross is so much better. (though I like the "We must win" from robotech).
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I really should watch Macross one of these days. I saw Robotech, and liked it well enough, and everyone says Macross is so much better...
's not.
'so so.
In fact, Macross is better than Robotech, so is Southern Cross, so is Mospeada. The thing is you watch Robotech, and some character says something, and it makes no sense. And for a moment you're like, what the hell are they talking about? What he said and what his face said are two different things.
*uber-snip*
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/GenoStar/applause.gif)
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In fact, Macross is better than Robotech, so is Southern Cross, so is Mospeada. The thing is you watch Robotech, and some character says something, and it makes no sense. And for a moment you're like, what the hell are they talking about? What he said and what his face said are two different things.
ie
In the first or second episode, second I think. The RDF forces in orbit engage the Zentraedi, they use nuclear weapons and basically lay a big smack down on some large zentraedi ships.
In Macross Breetai exclaims "What the heck was that?" (roughly), because nukes are so foreign to the toy soldiers.
In Robotech Breetai exclaims "Hahha, they don't even know how to use their own weapons!! haha" (well no, your ship just got powned, clearly they do know how).
It actually makes a great deal of sense, considering how feeble nukes are to what just came before, i.e. the SDF-1's Main Gun. (ANYTHING is feeble compared to the SDF-1's main gun, even a Neptunient-Verentiz's main gun or that of a Zentradi Monitor. This is, after all, Zor's final and greatest creation.) Plus, what he says in Macross makes no sense because the Zentradi are galactic friggin' conqueror warrior race and that they've never seen nuclear weapons in action before stretches credulity to the breaking point.
There's also the minor fact footage there was rearranged for Robotech so you can see that the ARMD's are kinda feeble after they expend their missiles, and they were going at it with lasers and railguns, which the Zentradi would find a bit pathetic compared to their own guided converging beam cannon and reflex weaponry.
or another example
In Southern Cross, Robotech, the whole premise in Robotech is that it's taking place on Earth. But if you look at the map, It's not earth. It's an alien planet. In fact Southern Cross is the most butchered series of the whole lot. Especially when it gets to this episode where Dana says "we shouldn't hurt them, they're people!" well of course they're people, someone's got to pilot the bad robots. What they don't say is that, in the REAL series, those people are humans and NOT aliens who got captured from some other outpost. So it makes sense to disable them.
Eh, perhaps so. But on the other hand it takes place upon the post-Rain of Death Earth and getting hit by the Zentradi Grand Fleet would sort of rearrange the face of the damn planet. And the Southern Cross interpretation actually serves to make the moral quagmire a bit deeper, in that though they seem by all rights to be people, and they're even genetically people, they are not from Earth. What measure is human?
Which is, of course, the whole point of that.
And for another thing. the music in Macross is so much better. (though I like the "We must win" from robotech).
Neither series' music is redeemable. At least later Robotech stuff isn't quite so mystically inclined.