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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: spartan_0214 on October 16, 2008, 10:58:22 am

Title: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: spartan_0214 on October 16, 2008, 10:58:22 am
I was perusing around tvtropes.org and came across the Space Friction trope on the FreeSpace page (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Freespace). I was wondering if the Space Friction trope was averted because the engines in FreeSpace allowed you to go in reverse. It's been a long while since I've played FS2, having started college and bought a few new games. So, my question is do FreeSpace engines allow you to go backwards?
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Galemp on October 16, 2008, 11:05:03 am
Nope, space friction is alive and well. Without engines any object that starts moving (such as from a collision, or weapons fire) will eventually come to a stop.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 16, 2008, 11:30:50 am
$Damp:
$RotDamp:
$Forward decel:
$Slide decel:

Are a few factors managing it.
I'm not sure how MOI affects them yet.

I was a bit dissappointed that there doesn't seem to be any retro affects for thrusters or controls though.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: lostllama on October 16, 2008, 11:47:52 am
It's interesting that the key for slowing down is called 'reverse thrust' in the key settings menu though.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Turey on October 16, 2008, 12:01:25 pm
It's interesting that the key for slowing down is called 'reverse thrust' in the key settings menu though.

Ships can go in reverse using that key. It's a setting in the tables.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: NGTM-1R on October 16, 2008, 02:00:57 pm
In theory.

In practice, no canonical FS ship has ever demonstrated such an ability. From a storyline standpoint, they've all got their drives on the rear end, and they're reaction drives, so they shouldn't be able to.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: spartan_0214 on October 16, 2008, 04:32:27 pm
Okay, so the trope holds, for now.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Excalibur on October 16, 2008, 09:45:17 pm
You can make them go backwards if you make a model for it...in fact, you could almost make a FPS like UT (except in space) if you used the right values. Collision would be a small problem I think, unless there are values for that as well.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: ssmit132 on October 17, 2008, 05:18:26 am
I once tried to get the Colossus to go backwards, first by only setting a backwards speed, which didn't work, and then by turning the model around. That didn't work either, since I didn't do it properly (since I didn't really know how to do it properly :( ).

*imagines the Collie moving backwards with the constant BEEP BEEP BEEP sounds as heard from cargo vehicles*

:lol:

Only the sound worked properly. :headz: Gah!
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Mobius on October 17, 2008, 05:23:10 am
FSO 3.6.11? :)
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 17, 2008, 09:14:04 am
I always thought that, in space, an object will maintain the same velocity forever.

And then I played Freelancer and killed the engines. :D
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Turnsky on October 17, 2008, 09:29:01 am
it might be a useful feature to have around for mods that may require it.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: JGZinv on October 17, 2008, 12:02:22 pm
Pretty sure Backslash already did this for us at FringeSpace and BTRL.
He modified the reverse key to go in reverse as stated I do believe.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 17, 2008, 12:23:12 pm
Yeah it does work, but it doesn't have a thruster value for thruster plumes that I'm aware of.
I haven't  really looked into it very far though.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: lostllama on October 17, 2008, 02:46:09 pm
Most StarFuries in TBP allow you to go backwards if you hold down Z (or whatever key you've assigned to reverse thrust) once you've bled off your forward momentum. I can't recall properly but Joshua may have achieved the same thing in his RealFlight mods.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 17, 2008, 08:45:42 pm
$Rear Velocity:
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Kosh on October 21, 2008, 05:50:07 am
In theory.

In practice, no canonical FS ship has ever demonstrated such an ability. From a storyline standpoint, they've all got their drives on the rear end, and they're reaction drives, so they shouldn't be able to.


On the flipside they shouldn't come to a complete stop when they cut their engines either, but they do.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on October 21, 2008, 09:26:03 am
I always thought that, in space, an object will maintain the same velocity forever.

And then I played Freelancer and killed the engines. :D

*Humhum*

In theory, yes. Although there are various particles hitting your ship, which will stop it someday. Not counting the infinite range of gravitation. So, even in space, Perpetuum Mobile = Bull****.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: terran_emperor on October 21, 2008, 11:42:54 am
don't you mean perpetual momentum = Bull****
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: redsniper on October 21, 2008, 06:09:49 pm
No. He meant Latin.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Admiral_Stones on October 22, 2008, 04:38:21 am
don't you mean perpetual momentum = Bull****

Latin > English
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 22, 2008, 07:40:22 am
Habeas corpus = R.I.P.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: terran_emperor on October 22, 2008, 09:54:08 am
Actually, Habeas Corpus has nothing to do with Graves.

It translates into English as "You have the body" or (depending on the tranlation) some variation of that phrase.

HC is the right of an inmate to challenge the legallity of his detention.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=define%3A+habeas+corpus&spell=1

...
The closest it gets to being about graves is the Laurel and Hardy short film "habeas corpus" where they play a pair of grave robbers

***
BUT this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The ability to fly backwards is IMHO something very useful.

Colony Wars, uses it. and the result is deadly to my opponents.
TBP uses it, just as good results...Though my main gripe is this:
*travelling forward, your max speed is say 90m/s. When travelling in reverse, as far as i know you cant fly backwards at that speed. You should be able to do this, i've seen starfuries do this in the show.

Diaspora, no idea if it uses reverse thrust...Should do as i've seen the vipers travelling backwards on the show
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Mura on October 22, 2008, 07:00:33 pm
Question: Do the debries of things that exploded lose speed at some time? i remember chasing some of them for quite a long time until they explode or i get bored and jump out...

Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 22, 2008, 09:46:23 pm
There are time alive settings but as open as the code has become a programmer could easily forget to close that window.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: lostllama on October 23, 2008, 07:41:42 am
TBP uses it, just as good results...Though my main gripe is this:
*travelling forward, your max speed is say 90m/s. When travelling in reverse, as far as i know you cant fly backwards at that speed. You should be able to do this, i've seen starfuries do this in the show.

Have you tried engaging afterburner to maximum, pressing the glide key at the same time and then using z to slow down and make you go backwards (with glide still enabled)? I was playing TBP last night and flying a Badger class Starfury but I can't remember if that worked or not. I find glide to be quite useful in mainting top afterburner speed because you don't have to wait for your burners to charge up.

Diaspora, no idea if it uses reverse thrust...Should do as i've seen the vipers travelling backwards on the show

If it turns out to be anything like BtRL (can I say that? :nervous:) it should do...
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: terran_emperor on October 23, 2008, 08:02:30 am
I'll have to play TBP again soon and try it out...
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 23, 2008, 08:03:25 am
Max reverse thrust on TBP is 15m/s, right?
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: terran_emperor on October 23, 2008, 08:11:20 am
Yeah that sounds right. Bit stupid, cause ive seen furies flying backwards at the same same speed that they fly forward (afterburners not included). So if the Aurora Satfury has a maximum forward speed of 90 m/s, then it should have a maximum reverse speed of 90 m/s as well
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 23, 2008, 08:17:36 am
I'm still not too used to that, though. Sometimes, I press and hold the reverse key and wonder why I'm not moving even though my HUD shows 15m/s... :wakka:
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: terran_emperor on October 23, 2008, 08:37:38 am
 :wtf: maybe you should use a ship as your movement reference and not the background
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 23, 2008, 09:13:30 am
Yeah, perhaps. I'm not a very good pilot, remember? :D
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: lostllama on October 23, 2008, 11:37:27 am
Ideally you'd see a minus sign alongside the speed. Or something like in that Minbari Project thing, or B5: I've Found Her, in which you have speed gauges at the top and sides of the HUD for each vector/axis.

EDIT: Just checked - apparently using afterburners + glide + z does make you go backwards at top AB speed (reached 130 in the Badger, same as forward max AB speed).
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Commander Zane on October 23, 2008, 06:10:48 pm
Vishnan ships on Blue Planet can go in reverse.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Kosh on October 28, 2008, 09:20:36 am
Maybe FS ships have some kind of inertial nullifiers that can stop the ship and, when set just right, make the ship slowly go in reverse........
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 28, 2008, 10:13:11 am
Actually, Habeas Corpus has nothing to do with Graves.

It translates into English as "You have the body" or (depending on the tranlation) some variation of that phrase.

HC is the right of an inmate to challenge the legallity of his detention.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=define%3A+habeas+corpus&spell=1

...
The closest it gets to being about graves is the Laurel and Hardy short film "habeas corpus" where they play a pair of grave robbers

***
BUT this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The ability to fly backwards is IMHO something very useful.

Colony Wars, uses it. and the result is deadly to my opponents.
TBP uses it, just as good results...Though my main gripe is this:
*travelling forward, your max speed is say 90m/s. When travelling in reverse, as far as i know you cant fly backwards at that speed. You should be able to do this, i've seen starfuries do this in the show.

Diaspora, no idea if it uses reverse thrust...Should do as i've seen the vipers travelling backwards on the show


LOL Terran I was just making a joke that those rights are being laid to rest it seems at times :D
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: terran_emperor on October 28, 2008, 02:07:15 pm
Well i was originally going to make a comment about a joke from dad's army, but then i looked up what HC means
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 28, 2008, 03:20:13 pm
Yeah the reverse thruster plumes would be canon I beleive for the episode where Kara jams her ship into Lee's to land them both into the trap bay when his engines and manueverability were gone.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: Kosh on October 29, 2008, 01:54:18 am
Yeah the reverse thruster plumes would be canon I beleive for the episode where Kara jams her ship into Lee's to land them both into the trap bay when his engines and manueverability were gone.

Yeah but those ships and B5's starfuries all had obvious thrusters that pointed forward, we don't see this in any FS fighters.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: ssmit132 on October 29, 2008, 05:49:48 am
Well i was originally going to make a comment about a joke from dad's army, but then i looked up what HC means

I thought exactly the same thing when I saw 'habeas corpus'. I'll have the honours:

Quote from: Private Pike
There is a law against grave robbing, it's called habeas corpus!

Granted, however, they were trying to retrieve something of theirs which they thought was in the coffin... But this is off-topic!

Vishnan ships on Blue Planet can go in reverse.

Something else to try once I've had a go of PI.
Title: Re: Do Engines Allow Ships to Go Backwards?
Post by: lostllama on October 29, 2008, 09:00:12 am
Yeah but those ships and B5's starfuries all had obvious thrusters that pointed forward, we don't see this in any FS fighters.

True but there is an ani from FS1 which shows a Poseidon freighter decelerating to pick up a cargo container. You can see thrusters flaring as it moves. But I suppose this isn't really an 'in-game' thing.