Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roanoke on November 10, 2008, 12:31:02 pm
-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7715896.stm
It's been coming for years and it shouldn't be a surprise but woah...
-
My dads an electrical engineer at GM who implemented antilock brakes on large trucks, and is now implementing electronic stability control on them. He then saved the company millions by acting as an expert witness in lawsuits. Hes 55, looks like he'll need to stay around for at least 5 more years, and then he'll be lucky if he gets pension.
-
:lol: "We're so screwed!" :lol:
-
Its a shame, a all american made company took a ****.
-
*thinks about the fact that a few years ago GM should have bought FIAT, then laughs :lol:
-
I see a merger on the horizon.
-
Chrysler USA is just going to die and fold into GM. Not much of a merger. :(
-
GM should merge with Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall.
you would think 14 companies should be able to keep each other funded, no?
-
GM should merge with Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall.
you would think 14 companies should be able to keep each other funded, no?
You assume that 14 company CEOs are perfectly willing to let one another grab an equal slice of the pie.
-
GM should merge with Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall.
you would think 14 companies should be able to keep each other funded, no?
You assume that 14 company CEOs are perfectly willing to let one another grab an equal slice of the pie.
LOL
-
GM should merge with Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall.
you would think 14 companies should be able to keep each other funded, no?
This is the problem...they have far too many brands. Vauxhall and Opel aren't too much of a problem as all I see that as being is some regionalization and change of badge...but take GM's 7 seat people mover CUV and you have the Buick Enclave, Saturn Outlook, Chevy Traverse, and GMC Acadia. They should have two. The Buick and the Chevy. The others are irrelevant.
They need to roll dealers into combination packages like they do here in Canada. Buick and Cadillac can still exist but only a few cars apiece...not full lineups. They can compliment each other. Either Pontiac or Chevy have to go since aside from the G8 they have the same cars. GMC for trucks only. And ultimately they need to stop badge engineering half a new vehicle just because Chevy or Pontiac need that car. Heck...maybe Pontiac should be a performance tweaker like Mugen rather than the way they are stuck copying most of their cars. The Vibe can just as easily be a Chevy.
They have to do something and it seems to me that they waste allot of time building the same car over and over and over again for their different brands. A case can be made for something like the Buick Enclave and the Chevy Traverse but the Outlook and Acadia mean what exactly? Same with the G5 and the Cobalt.
Anyways thats just how I see it. I hope they stick around...GM is responsible for many thousands of jobs and so is Ford.
-
GM should merge with Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall.
you would think 14 companies should be able to keep each other funded, no?
All of the companies are taking a beating. 3 weeks ago, I got a 2008 GMC truck that had a manufactured built price of $36,000 but because of their hard times, I was able to knock it down to $25,500, and that's including getting some pretty sweet accessories for it.
-
GM should merge with Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall.
you would think 14 companies should be able to keep each other funded, no?
You assume that 14 company CEOs are perfectly willing to let one another grab an equal slice of the pie.
No pie for you!!!!
-
Um... a lot of those aren't individual companies. Buick and Hummer are both GM brands.
-
GM's been in trouble for the last three years.
-
GM's been in trouble for the last three years.
As a result of bad decisions being made the last 20 years.
Now since AIG has somehow managed to lose $24.5 billion last quarter and has gotten bailed out twice, GM is lobbying hard to get taxpayer dollars to pay for their ****ups. Corporate welfare @ work.
-
"Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us."
-
GM should merge with Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Oldsmobile, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall.
you would think 14 companies should be able to keep each other funded, no?
This is the problem...they have far too many brands. Vauxhall and Opel aren't too much of a problem as all I see that as being is some regionalization and change of badge...but take GM's 7 seat people mover CUV and you have the Buick Enclave, Saturn Outlook, Chevy Traverse, and GMC Acadia. They should have two. The Buick and the Chevy. The others are irrelevant.
They need to roll dealers into combination packages like they do here in Canada. Buick and Cadillac can still exist but only a few cars apiece...not full lineups. They can compliment each other. Either Pontiac or Chevy have to go since aside from the G8 they have the same cars. GMC for trucks only. And ultimately they need to stop badge engineering half a new vehicle just because Chevy or Pontiac need that car. Heck...maybe Pontiac should be a performance tweaker like Mugen rather than the way they are stuck copying most of their cars. The Vibe can just as easily be a Chevy.
They have to do something and it seems to me that they waste allot of time building the same car over and over and over again for their different brands. A case can be made for something like the Buick Enclave and the Chevy Traverse but the Outlook and Acadia mean what exactly? Same with the G5 and the Cobalt.
Anyways thats just how I see it. I hope they stick around...GM is responsible for many thousands of jobs and so is Ford.
I don't know about the American brands but every few years they float the idea of dropping the Vauxhall brand in favour of Opel but never actually go ahead. I think the other non-domestic brands have they're own demographic. A Saab buyer would never consider a Vauxhall or post-Daewoo Chevy, for example.
GM's been in trouble for the last three years.
The US Domestic Auto industry has been on the backfoot since the early 1970s.
Looks like Toyota are a safe bet to take the "Worlds Biggest" title, if they haven't done so already.
-
Um... a lot of those aren't individual companies. Buick and Hummer are both GM brands.
those are all gm brands. I was joking.
-
GM should cut down everything they have to two, maybe three divisions at the most. Toyota has Lexus and Scion, both of which have their own market segment. GMC make the best American made SUVs, and share the same trucks as Chevrolet, just as different names. Pontiac is now also effectively a leech off Chevrolet. Buick makes a damn fine luxury vehicle segment, we don't need another. Drop Cadillac. Saturn doesn't even deserve to exist. Rubbish plastic cars are rubbish.
If GM would only be made up of GMC, Buick, and Chevrolet, it would eliminate most of the problems with GM always seeming to compete with itself.
-
If GM would only be made up of GMC, Buick, and Chevrolet, it would eliminate most of the problems with GM always seeming to compete with itself.
And Holden. You take Holden out of the Australian market and try to convince Aussies to buy a "Chevrolet Commodore" and you can say bye bye to one of the few profitable parts of your company.
-
Did GM buy Ford, or did Ford but Alfa Romeo? i can't remember...
-
Fiat own Alfa, and Ford and GM are each others major competitors, so I very much doubt they'd be permitted to buy one another... at least, not here. Dunno if anyone could block it in the ultra-free-market US.
-
If GM would only be made up of GMC, Buick, and Chevrolet, it would eliminate most of the problems with GM always seeming to compete with itself.
And Holden. You take Holden out of the Australian market and try to convince Aussies to buy a "Chevrolet Commodore" and you can say bye bye to one of the few profitable parts of your company.
Like Ford I think GM are only suffering in the US domestic market.
-
No, they're suffering in Italy as well. In a terrible way...I don't know the situation in other European countries but it's likely to be similar.
It's one of the bad faces of capitalism. It expects us to continuously buy cars and other stuff...people who work hard to eat don't GAF about a new car.
-
That aspect of capitalism is just plain stupid. It requires people to continuously consume things that should be "durable." Planned obsolescence - making products to fail after a given amount of time - is surprisingly common.
-
GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is alot of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.
-
GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is alot of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.
I believe Daimler dumped Chrysler because of looming Pension bills (liabilities ?)......
-
GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is alot of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.
So bad management and poor quality had nothing to do with it? :rolleyes:
-
I think cutting back to GM (trucks), Buick (cars), and Cadillac ("luxury") would be best idea.
-
GMC is not going to let go of Chevrolet in a thousand years. It easily is GMC's single most profitable and recognizable brand.
-
GM should cut down everything they have to two, maybe three divisions at the most. Toyota has Lexus and Scion, both of which have their own market segment. GMC make the best American made SUVs, and share the same trucks as Chevrolet, just as different names. Pontiac is now also effectively a leech off Chevrolet. Buick makes a damn fine luxury vehicle segment, we don't need another. Drop Cadillac. Saturn doesn't even deserve to exist. Rubbish plastic cars are rubbish.
If GM would only be made up of GMC, Buick, and Chevrolet, it would eliminate most of the problems with GM always seeming to compete with itself.
I agree they should cut their brands back but thats a hard job. Chevy is a logical choice to keep. Both Buick and Cadillac have good vehicles in their lineup so it'd be hard to make that fit together. The CTS for instance is quick good...so is the Enclave. Buick is incredibly popular in China complete with Shanghai design studios so its probably more likely to remain. GMC might be useful for trucks and maybe a SUV but they should kill the Acadia as its useless in the lineup.
I wouldn't get rid of Saturn as they have a good thing going now....they are the European import brand of Opels that might work in North America. I see a dozen Saturn Astra's around every day here.
Plus you have Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, and Saab. All of those probably need to stay or be sold off....they are a largely regional phenomenon.
-
GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is alot of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.
So bad management and poor quality had nothing to do with it? :rolleyes:
My post inferred bad management. All I said was the result of bad management decisions.. and you must have missed the 'making cars people want to buy' part. I dont buy 'american' cars from the 'big 3.' All my cars have been german for that quality reason.
-
We used to buy almost all GM cars. I love to buy American just as much as the next guy (well...American).
Then we bought a Volkswagon...my Rabbit/Golf is great.
-
Fiat own Alfa, and Ford and GM are each others major competitors, so I very much doubt they'd be permitted to buy one another... at least, not here. Dunno if anyone could block it in the ultra-free-market US.
Ultra-Free-Market US?
Please.
-
Fiat own Alfa, and Ford and GM are each others major competitors, so I very much doubt they'd be permitted to buy one another... at least, not here. Dunno if anyone could block it in the ultra-free-market US.
Ultra-Free-Market US?
Please.
Compared to most other places.
-
Well, yeah. But GM being screwed up is hardly the cause of a free market.
-
Nobody was saying that.
-
I think a merger between Ford and GM would be a ****ty idea. Ford is well on its way to being a "competitor"--they restructured and should be profitable again "shortly". What GM needs to do is kill brands or sell brands. Buick, Cadillac, Chevorlet, Daewoo, GMC, Holden, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall, and Wuling cannibalizes their own sales and adds a lot of unnecessary cost. Spin some off--unify their strategy or incorporate their advantages into market segments. GM needs capital and needs direction. Most other competitors have their "family"--a "good" brand, a "better" brand, and their "best" brand.
-
Nobody was saying that.
Ah, I saw it in another thread then. My bad.
Still my point remains.
-
Selling Saab could raise some quick cash. TBH I think there's only really Buick and Chevrolet who compete. Though, I was surprised Chervolet came to the UK as they probably cross over with Vauxhall-Opel.
I like Saturn. They've always seemed more modern that the other GM stable. Why the hell is the UK not getting the Satun Sky/Opel GT ffs ?
-
Probably because it's not cost effective to send that much plastic overseas :D.
-
Germany is getting it in the form of the Opel GT. :sigh:
Are Saturns still plastic ? Presumeably the Opel based models are steel bodied ?
-
Saturns are plastic. However, they're not bad in a crash.
-
Saturns are plastic. However, they're not bad in a crash.
Not anymore. All new Saturn's are steel like the Opel's they are based on.
-
Selling Saab could raise some quick cash. TBH I think there's only really Buick and Chevrolet who compete. Though, I was surprised Chervolet came to the UK as they probably cross over with Vauxhall-Opel.
I like Saturn. They've always seemed more modern that the other GM stable. Why the hell is the UK not getting the Satun Sky/Opel GT ffs ?
Hard to say - but the VX220 which it replaces didn't sell as well as Vauxhall wanted. The problem was everyone knew it was basically a Lotus Elise with more kit - and which badge would you rather have on your driveway? It's possible the lack of breakthrough success put VX executives off releasing it here.
Also, Chevy was a huge mistake here - at least the Daewoo acquisition and usage was anyway. Everyone now thinks of dodgy little superminis and city cars that needed to be completely rebuilt before they were even at the same basic level as a Fiesta, Punto, or Smart.
Final point - Saab has some of the most promising and best all-round cars/platforms in the market. The bio-power engines being a prime example of this. Selling them would be daft, but at the same time I hope they do it so Saab doesn't get dragged down by GM crashing - I like the 9-5 Aero Hot.
-
As for all of the comments on Saturns, the plastic adds a benefit. You can just heat them and push them back into shape after a crash. Literally, my dad does that after my mom wrecks the car like every day. (So maybe only once, but who cares)
And also, the older Saturns are some of the most reliable cars on the road, our 2001 LS300 has NEVER had a single repair. Never.
Although the new ones, being based on another brand, lose that.
-
Selling Saab could raise some quick cash. TBH I think there's only really Buick and Chevrolet who compete. Though, I was surprised Chervolet came to the UK as they probably cross over with Vauxhall-Opel.
I like Saturn. They've always seemed more modern that the other GM stable. Why the hell is the UK not getting the Satun Sky/Opel GT ffs ?
Hard to say - but the VX220 which it replaces didn't sell as well as Vauxhall wanted. The problem was everyone knew it was basically a Lotus Elise with more kit - and which badge would you rather have on your driveway? It's possible the lack of breakthrough success put VX executives off releasing it here.
Also, Chevy was a huge mistake here - at least the Daewoo acquisition and usage was anyway. Everyone now thinks of dodgy little superminis and city cars that needed to be completely rebuilt before they were even at the same basic level as a Fiesta, Punto, or Smart.
Final point - Saab has some of the most promising and best all-round cars/platforms in the market. The bio-power engines being a prime example of this. Selling them would be daft, but at the same time I hope they do it so Saab doesn't get dragged down by GM crashing - I like the 9-5 Aero Hot.
The VX220 had no heritage and was a complete odd-ball in the line-up. Plus Griff Rhys Jones in his pants. Like the Nissan-Alfa partnership years ago, they failed to build upon their individual strengths.
Launching Chevrolet UK with rebadged Daewoos must have been a huge mistake. How do they expect UK drivers, who've had no experience of the brand outside of here, to take the new Camaro seriously ?
Remember when they tried to sell Corvettes and Camaros through Vauxhall dealers and literally sold about 25 of them (granted LHD only) ?
Most Saabs run on GM family platfroms but I can se them being more attractive to possible suitors than any other GM brand. :)