[Black Wolf]

If GM would only be made up of GMC, Buick, and Chevrolet, it would eliminate most of the problems with GM always seeming to compete with itself.

And Holden. You take Holden out of the Australian market and try to convince Aussies to buy a "Chevrolet Commodore" and you can say bye bye to one of the few profitable parts of your company.

[Colonol Dekker]

Did GM buy Ford, or did Ford but Alfa Romeo? i can't remember...

[Black Wolf]

Fiat own Alfa, and Ford and GM are each others major competitors, so I very much doubt they'd be permitted to buy one another... at least, not here. Dunno if anyone could block it in the ultra-free-market US.

[Roanoke]

If GM would only be made up of GMC, Buick, and Chevrolet, it would eliminate most of the problems with GM always seeming to compete with itself.

And Holden. You take Holden out of the Australian market and try to convince Aussies to buy a "Chevrolet Commodore" and you can say bye bye to one of the few profitable parts of your company.

Like Ford I think GM are only suffering in the US domestic market.

[Mobius]

No, they're suffering in Italy as well. In a terrible way...I don't know the situation in other European countries but it's likely to be similar.

It's one of the bad faces of capitalism. It expects us to continuously buy cars and other stuff...people who work hard to eat don't GAF about a new car.

[Mars]

That aspect of capitalism is just plain stupid. It requires people to continuously consume things that should be "durable." Planned obsolescence - making products to fail after a given amount of time - is surprisingly common.

[DeepSpace9er]

GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.

[Roanoke]

GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.

I believe Daimler dumped Chrysler because of looming Pension bills (liabilities ?)......

[Kosh]

GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.

So bad management and poor quality had nothing to do with it?

[Bob-san]

I think cutting back to GM (trucks), Buick (cars), and Cadillac ("luxury") would be best idea.

[Nuclear1]

GMC is not going to let go of Chevrolet in a thousand years. It easily is GMC's single most profitable and recognizable brand.

[IceFire]

GM should cut down everything they have to two, maybe three divisions at the most.  Toyota has Lexus and Scion, both of which have their own market segment.  GMC make the best American made SUVs, and share the same trucks as Chevrolet, just as different names.  Pontiac is now also effectively a leech off Chevrolet.  Buick makes a damn fine luxury vehicle segment, we don't need another.  Drop Cadillac.  Saturn doesn't even deserve to exist.  Rubbish plastic cars are rubbish.

If GM would only be made up of GMC, Buick, and Chevrolet, it would eliminate most of the problems with GM always seeming to compete with itself.

I agree they should cut their brands back but thats a hard job.  Chevy is a logical choice to keep.  Both Buick and Cadillac have good vehicles in their lineup so it'd be hard to make that fit together.  The CTS for instance is quick good...so is the Enclave.  Buick is incredibly popular in China complete with Shanghai design studios so its probably more likely to remain.  GMC might be useful for trucks and maybe a SUV but they should kill the Acadia as its useless in the lineup.

I wouldn't get rid of Saturn as they have a good thing going now....they are the European import brand of Opels that might work in North America.  I see a dozen Saturn Astra's around every day here.

Plus you have Opel, Vauxhall, Holden, and Saab.  All of those probably need to stay or be sold off....they are a largely regional phenomenon.

[DeepSpace9er]

GM is failing because of the stranglehold the UAW has on them and their own promises of pensions. Its a failing business model which companies like Toyota didnt incorporate and are thus more successful. That and they make cars people want to buy. GM shouldnt be bailed out. Let them declare bankruptcy. What will happen is their stock price will eventually collapse to the point where somebody buys them out. They arent worthless and wont go out of business.. there is of value in their infrastructure and brand names that somebody will buy up, reorganize, and make working again.

So bad management and poor quality had nothing to do with it?

My post inferred bad management. All I said was the result of bad management decisions.. and you must have missed the 'making cars people want to buy' part. I dont buy 'american' cars from the 'big 3.' All my cars have been german for that quality reason.

[Solatar]

We used to buy almost all GM cars. I love to buy American just as much as the next guy (well...American).

Then we bought a Volkswagon...my Rabbit/Golf is great.

[Starkweather]

Fiat own Alfa, and Ford and GM are each others major competitors, so I very much doubt they'd be permitted to buy one another... at least, not here. Dunno if anyone could block it in the ultra-free-market US.

Ultra-Free-Market US?

Please.

[Nuclear1]

Fiat own Alfa, and Ford and GM are each others major competitors, so I very much doubt they'd be permitted to buy one another... at least, not here. Dunno if anyone could block it in the ultra-free-market US.

Ultra-Free-Market US?

Please.

Compared to most other places.

[Starkweather]

Well, yeah. But GM being screwed up is hardly the cause of a free market.

[Nuclear1]

Nobody was saying that.

[Bob-san]

I think a merger between Ford and GM would be a ****ty idea. Ford is well on its way to being a "competitor"--they restructured and should be profitable again "shortly". What GM needs to do is kill brands or sell brands. Buick, Cadillac, Chevorlet, Daewoo, GMC, Holden, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall, and Wuling cannibalizes their own sales and adds a lot of unnecessary cost. Spin some off--unify their strategy or incorporate their advantages into market segments. GM needs capital and needs direction. Most other competitors have their "family"--a "good" brand, a "better" brand, and their "best" brand.

[Starkweather]

Nobody was saying that.

Ah, I saw it in another thread then. My bad.

Still my point remains.