Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: zugu on December 03, 2008, 01:37:34 pm
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Hello everyone!
This is my first post here. I recently discovered Freespace 2, bought it and continuously played for 9 hours straight. I would still play, but I'm stuck at the 21st mission of this amazing game.
This mission is called "A game of tag" and I have to protect a warship and a research ship, tagging enemies for the warship to shoot, while the research ship provides sensor data inside the nebula.
At first, there are two successive waves of enemies that I can easily destroy or tag. Then there is a huge wave comprised of at least three types of enemy ships, some of them are bombers.
I tried engaging them in countless ways, the commander doesn't even finish saying something about the research ship being under attack and it is utterly destroyed. I don't even have time to reach the ship, and in the rare situations that I do, it still doesn't matter, it is immediately destroyed.
I still don't know what ships are the bombers, so I tried engaging only ships of a specific class - to no avail, the remaining enemies still destroy the research ship as if it's made of paper.
And all of this while I'm playing on the very easy difficulty. I mean, there has to be something wrong, I'm always fighting some enemy, if I lose too much time I restart the mission and try again. Some enemy fighters are very fast and I can barely stay on their tail by continuously using my fighter's boost. It doesn't really matter, because if I get to follow one enemy ship for more than 30 seconds without catching it, I restart the mission. Once I managed to destroy all of the enemies while the research ship still had ~15-20 health, the "return to base" order appeared, so the mission was basically over, but right after I started the jump the research ship exploded! I'm telling you, it's driving me crazy!
I calculated the timing to the best of my ability but it's still not enough, anything less than perfect seems to be unacceptable. All previous missions were easy enough, but suddenly the difficulty curve went through the roof.
Any advice on how to finish this mission, please?
I'm playing the retail version of Freespace bought from GOG, with the FSOInstaller goodies strapped on it, on a WinXP 32 bit OS.
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:welcomered:
Although the admins here don't like welcome speeches, jr2 has gathered some here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,39765.0.html). Enjoy!
Now, first thing: this shouldn't be mission 21, but 12. I'll assume it's a typo :)
Press the "B" key to target enemy bombs or bombers. The Morning Star is good to take out bombs, but use the Subach for the bombers. Heck, don't EVER take the Prometheus R, it's utterly worthless. And don't stray too far from the corvette, you'll need its fire support.
The research ship might have been hit by a piece of debris or so, don't worry about that unless it happens repeatedly.
And if you really can't finish this, you can skip it after dying five times in a row. But that's only a last resort.
Again, welcome to HLP!
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That's right, the corvette is your most effective weapon. Stay close and TAG the bombers fast.
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Although the admins here don't like welcome speeches
Well, it has been explained numerous times why they don't like the speeches and I fully agree with their reasoning.
To business. Indeed, "B" targets enemy bombs, or if there are no bombs in flight, enemy bombers. In addition, the HUD displays the class of the ship you're cirrently targeting. You should notice that, for example, with Shivan Fighters it is SF and with Shivan Bombers it is SB. Remember to also use your wingman/men. If you order them to protect the Warspite or the Lucidity, they should also attempt to provide anti-bomb support. And keep tagging the bastards. The Warspite won't do a thing unless there's a tagged ship within weapons range.
The Morning Star is good to take out bombs, but use the Subach for the bombers. Heck, don't EVER take the Prometheus R, it's utterly worthless.
For this mission you won't be able to affect your loadout. IIRC, that is.
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Oh i remember this mission it was a real b**** to complete...
To advice that i can give, other than what has already been stated
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It shouldn't be that hard.
Just hit 'b' and kill whatever pops up: bombs first, then bombers.
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I'd have to say A Game of Tag is the single hardest mission in the entire FS2 campaign if you want to save the Lucidity, HANDS DOWN.
You're stuck with one useless bank of primaries (Prom R's...you're better off just shooting the Subach), and a virtually useless bank of secondaries. TAG-1s take so long to reload that if you miss a Taurvi, you have no chance to tagging them all. Even if you do, the Warspite won't kill em all in time.
Sure, you've got a Corvette with Ultra AAA's but even those can't kill the damn Taurvis fast enough. While I'm busy tagging Taurvis, there are these Shivan Assault fighters just unloading on the Lucidity with swarm missiles >.> It goes down in a blink.
(I've also been killed by the Warspite's Ultra AAAs before >.>)
But yeah...target the bombs, tell your wingmen to protect the Lucidity (if you want it to live), or the Warspite (if you just want to pass).
I actually ended up cheating and going `I on the Lucidity and proceeded to just defend the Warspite (I was really...really pissed off). So much easier, as the Deimos isn't made of tissue paper and glue like the AWACs is.
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Maybe my memory's completely shot, but...I don't ever remember having serious trouble with this one, and I was playing a difficulty level up on Easy to boot. I haven't played the campaign in ages, though, so I have no idea of what I did or didn't do. I do remember that I found the TAGs to be rather brutally effective, at least if your targets were relatively close to the Warspite. If there are both assault fighters and bombers attacking the Lucidity simultaneously, I'd advise letting your wingmen handle the bombers, since they generally do a decent job at intercepting bombs.
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I'd have to say A Game of Tag is the single hardest mission in the entire FS2 campaign if you want to save the Lucidity, HANDS DOWN.
You're stuck with one useless bank of primaries (Prom R's...you're better off just shooting the Subach), and a virtually useless bank of secondaries. TAG-1s take so long to reload that if you miss a Taurvi, you have no chance to tagging them all. Even if you do, the Warspite won't kill em all in time.
Sure, you've got a Corvette with Ultra AAA's but even those can't kill the damn Taurvis fast enough. While I'm busy tagging Taurvis, there are these Shivan Assault fighters just unloading on the Lucidity with swarm missiles >.> It goes down in a blink.
(I've also been killed by the Warspite's Ultra AAAs before >.>)
But yeah...target the bombs, tell your wingmen to protect the Lucidity (if you want it to live), or the Warspite (if you just want to pass).
I actually ended up cheating and going `I on the Lucidity and proceeded to just defend the Warspite (I was really...really pissed off). So much easier, as the Deimos isn't made of tissue paper and glue like the AWACs is.
Really?
I've never had that much trouble with it at all.
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neither have i. what difficulty level is zugu playing at?
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And all of this while I'm playing on the very easy difficulty
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Errr... that would answer my question.
i play on between easy and hard and complete the mission almost every time.
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You might also want to note that GTVA reinforcements only arrive when Alpha 2 is dead. So if she is on really low health but not dying . . . just accidentally release a burst of plasma in her direction.
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Yeah that usualy work kill off you wingmen :))))
I still have no idea why he ha so much trouble. I complete the mission hands down each time....! I mean i usualy try to tag as mani bastards as posbile and then observe the Warspite chew them up like there is no tomorrow.
God i love that ship. the GTCv Warspite ! OWNAGE YOU FREAKING BUGZ!
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You know, I always wondered why the AWACS is so vulnerable. I could understand it's lack of physical staying power against prolonged assault, but why not then utilize it's electronic warfare capabilities and, you know, make it more difficult to aquire a missile lock or better yet, target lock? In a nebula especially this would be very effective...
The Terran sensor tech was upgraded to Shivan level on a fast pace during the Great War so it would not be a stretch of imagination to think that what makes Terran sensors fail, could make Shivan sensors fail.
Or, if that is not possible, slap some armor into it for goodness' sake. It's not like mobility is the highest priority for a ship lilke that. :wtf:
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You know, I always wondered why the AWACS is so vulnerable. I could understand it's lack of physical staying power against prolonged assault, but why not then utilize it's electronic warfare capabilities and, you know, make it more difficult to aquire a missile lock or better yet, target lock? In a nebula especially this would be very effective...
The Terran sensor tech was upgraded to Shivan level on a fast pace during the Great War so it would not be a stretch of imagination to think that what makes Terran sensors fail, could make Shivan sensors fail.
Or, if that is not possible, slap some armor into it for goodness' sake. It's not like mobility is the highest priority for a ship lilke that. :wtf:
Thats what i was thinking. I mean the bloddy thing can see stuff through the nebula but can't jam up the targeting sensors of the shivan ships?? especialy since its tech is on par or even more advanced then shivan sensors..
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now that you mention this mission... did any of you guys saved Kappa wing survivor?? I just redyed but to no avail.. maybe it's meant to die :mad:
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did any of you guys saved Kappa wing survivor?? I just redyed but to no avail..
Redied? K... I'd think that dying repeatedly doesn't solve a lot of problems.
Haven't familiarized myself with the structure 'n stuff of this mission but I'd bet that it's one of those "this is meant to happen so just sit down, shut up and play the next mission" sort of things.
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Hey guys, thanks for the info. I managed to finish the mission and I also saved the AWACS, by chasing bombs and bombers.
Unfortunately, I don't play the game anymore. Bearbaiting has been enough for me. I have lost all faith and interest in the game because of this mission. I'm playing video games to entertain myself, not to get hours of frustration.
It's a pity, because the game has been extremely enjoyable up until now, way ahead of its time.
Cheers.
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You don't know what you're missing, the best part is yet to come...
If you decide to get on it again, you may find the Campaign Walkthrough (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Campaign_Walkthrough) useful, it helped me a lot as well when I was getting started.
Just don't read the walkthrough of a mission before you've tried to play it at least once, it can seriously spoil the fun. Trust me, I know :ick:
Oh, and you did pay attention during the training missions, right?
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Hey guys, thanks for the info. I managed to finish the mission and I also saved the AWACS, by chasing bombs and bombers.
Unfortunately, I don't play the game anymore. Bearbaiting has been enough for me. I have lost all faith and interest in the game because of this mission. I'm playing video games to entertain myself, not to get hours of frustration.
It's a pity, because the game has been extremely enjoyable up until now, way ahead of its time.
Cheers.
What? Please don't give up.
We can walk you through this. On 'very easy' it shouldn't actually be that difficult. It sounds like you've just missed a few basic targeting controls. 'V' will target the turret beneath your reticle -- then approach the beam cannons from inside the arm and launch your bombs while afterburning towards them.
Are you sure you're on 'very easy'?
You're closing in on the most spectacular parts of the game. It'd be a crime to abandon it now. Bearbaiting is notoriously difficult to do perfectly, but it's easy enough to complete it. Don't worry about getting the flak cannon or rear beams or anything like that -- just take out two (2, only 2!) of the Sathanas' forward beams, then disable the Beleth and call it a day.
Don't shoot for perfection.
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did any of you guys saved Kappa wing survivor?? I just redyed but to no avail..
Redied? K... I'd think that dying repeatedly doesn't solve a lot of problems.
Haven't familiarized myself with the structure 'n stuff of this mission but I'd bet that it's one of those "this is meant to happen so just sit down, shut up and play the next mission" sort of things.
selected the wrong word on the spell checker, the word was tried.
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Hey guys, thanks for the info. I managed to finish the mission and I also saved the AWACS, by chasing bombs and bombers.
Unfortunately, I don't play the game anymore. Bearbaiting has been enough for me. I have lost all faith and interest in the game because of this mission. I'm playing video games to entertain myself, not to get hours of frustration.
It's a pity, because the game has been extremely enjoyable up until now, way ahead of its time.
Cheers.
What? Please don't give up.
We can walk you through this. On 'very easy' it shouldn't actually be that difficult. It sounds like you've just missed a few basic targeting controls. 'V' will target the turret beneath your reticle -- then approach the beam cannons from inside the arm and launch your bombs while afterburning towards them.
Are you sure you're on 'very easy'?
You're closing in on the most spectacular parts of the game. It'd be a crime to abandon it now. Bearbaiting is notoriously difficult to do perfectly, but it's easy enough to complete it. Don't worry about getting the flak cannon or rear beams or anything like that -- just take out two (2, only 2!) of the Sathanas' forward beams, then disable the Beleth and call it a day.
Don't shoot for perfection.
Particularily since, as it was said, you can skip a mission after failing it five times in a row. There's nothing wrong with it.
I was frustrated numerous times, when first playing FreeSpace 2. In The King's Gambit where I always managed to let at least two ships slip away, in Bearbaiting where I couldn't figure out the proper tactic for taking out the beam cannons, in Exodus where I always seemed to lose at least two ships and so on. But I kept trying and finally managed to succeed in all missions that were difficult.
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For God's sake!!!
If you fail a mission 5 times, then you are allowed to continue!!!!
Even you failed to notice that giant tab, or you were so ....... that you didn't even tried it for 5 goddamn times!
By the way, Mission 12 was the one what seriously made me to hate EVERY SINGLE barracuda.
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Err, if you're having trouble on Bearbaiting and A Game of Tag... then I strongly suggest you skip the second loop. :nervous:
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As lightning fall is easy enough. The Shivans are barely a threat.
And the Terran Mara is OPed so Into the Lion's Den isn't as hard as it would seem (though I do recall getting mangled by the Nebiros's rear SAAAs...)
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As Lightning Fall is like the worst EMP nightmare ever. I kept on getting confused by the different nav buoys so I went forward . . . then backward . . . and forward until it got to 25mins.
:v: 's FREDders for that mission must have been snickering all the way while FREDding that mission.
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I got over thirty Shivan kills though, and the only damage I took was from collisions :D
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Well, they are Aeshmas so what else can you expect? :p
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now that you mention this mission... did any of you guys saved Kappa wing survivor?? I just redyed but to no avail.. maybe it's meant to die
He is meant to die, but you can save him if you tell him to jump out before he gets splattered. I've done it. Command just doesn't go through the last half of the dramatic dialogue.
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never give up, never surrender?
yeah, sorry
bearbaiting is okay
your wingmen can help, the support ship is a godsend, and you'll probably take more damge from your own bombs than the flak, so long as you put some more energy to the shields
'exodus' on the other hand...
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What I never do on Bearbaiting is to destroy the flak cannons first. I tend to keep my Trebuchets for the main guns as well.
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When bombing the frontal beams, I just divert ALL my ship's energy to shields, and only send some over to my engines when moving over to another beam.
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Unfortunately, I don't play the game anymore. Bearbaiting has been enough for me. I have lost all faith and interest in the game because of this mission. I'm playing video games to entertain myself, not to get hours of frustration.
Wow, you must be pretty new to video games. Back in the day Hours of Frustration is what games were all about :D
That being said, everyone has a tough time on Bearbaiting. I probably had to try 'er 18 times or so my first time around.
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I probably had to try 'er 18 times or so my first time around.
No way!!! you were playing on insane or something like that?
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I probably had to try 'er 18 times or so my first time around.
No way!!! you were playing on insane or something like that?
Nah, I was probably on the default Easy. I didn't skip it though. I did, actually finish it, eventually. The only mission I remember skipping is Slaying Ravana. I played that mission a whole bunch of times, and it never occurred to me to take cover with allied Corvette or Cruiser, or whatever (I don't even know what it is because I've never flown to it). I always viewed it as a separate battle that didn't involve what I was doing, so the Shivan Basilisks and friends would eventually overwhelm me because of course my wingmen get shot to pieces.
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I play on medium and I could never kill off those flak guns. The trebuchets refuse to hit at the proper angle to damage them.
I have to restart nearly a dozen times just because my wingmen couldn't cover me while support ship reloads me or the helios do insufficient damage even though I approached at the appropriate angle. I don't want to restart more just to get those guns.
Funny, I never found A game of Tag tough. Perhaps that's due to Alpha 2 suiciding too fast that the reinforcements arrive to protect the AWACs and the Shivan bombers got lost in the fog.
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Funny, I never found A game of Tag tough. Perhaps that's due to Alpha 2 suiciding too fast that the reinforcements arrive to protect the AWACs and the Shivan bombers got lost in the fog.
Same here. In fact, I find A Game of TAG to be one of the easier missions in the entire campaign. Single-fire TAG-As and that's it.
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It's best to order your wingmen to engage enemy than use a protect my target order. They function better on that order, especially on insane difficulty. For me I usually tell them to engage when an enemy jumps in and once the area is clear, order them to either form on me or protect a target that's moving so they'll be close by when another wave jumps in. Following that sequence throughout each mission has saved me alot of wingmen and helped me get through each mission, and has kept important targets alive.
Hope this helps.
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What is the difference between the "destroy target" and the "engage enemy" commands?
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What is the difference between the "destroy target" and the "engage enemy" commands?
after destroying the target your wingmen just stand still or evade enemy wings until you order something else.
IF you order to attack anything they will be always engaging new wings of hostile ships
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To add on to Rodo's post...
"Destroy Target" will cause all your wingmen to attack that target only, regardless of whether there are nearby enemy targets.
Assume that the "Target" in question is an Astaroth 12 000m out. Ordering your wingmen to "Destroy Target" will make them fly 12 000m towards the Astaroth and attack it even if there is a Seraphim 1000m away from them.
"Engage Enemy", however, causes all your wingmen to attack the nearest hostile, so taking the example above, they will attack and destroy the Seraphim first before flying 12 000m out to attack the Astaroth.
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Also use the "Engage Enemy" command just to clear any existing orders set previously for your wingmen if the orders begin to prove impractical.
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The only order they'll still follow regardless of engage enemy is the "ignore my target" order. Which is really cool because telling a wing of fighters to ignore a cap ship and to engage enemy means they'll focus more on incoming fighters and bombers.
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The only order they'll still follow regardless of engage enemy is the "ignore my target" order. Which is really cool because telling a wing of fighters to ignore a cap ship and to engage enemy means they'll focus more on incoming fighters and bombers.
That particular order is also awesome in The Sixth Wonder, if you accidentally order someone to ignore the Hawkwood. That Collie ain't firin' itz lazors at nothing no more.
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The only order they'll still follow regardless of engage enemy is the "ignore my target" order. Which is really cool because telling a wing of fighters to ignore a cap ship and to engage enemy means they'll focus more on incoming fighters and bombers.
That particular order is also awesome in The Sixth Wonder, if you accidentally order someone to ignore the Hawkwood. That Collie ain't firin' itz lazors at nothing no more.
Thanks guys! It sounds quite fine... :yes:
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The only order they'll still follow regardless of engage enemy is the "ignore my target" order. Which is really cool because telling a wing of fighters to ignore a cap ship and to engage enemy means they'll focus more on incoming fighters and bombers.
That particular order is also awesome in The Sixth Wonder, if you accidentally order someone to ignore the Hawkwood. That Collie ain't firin' itz lazors at nothing no more.
I think that's been fixed, hasn't it? I just played The Sixth Wonder the other day and the Colossus definitely did its beamz thing.
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The only order they'll still follow regardless of engage enemy is the "ignore my target" order. Which is really cool because telling a wing of fighters to ignore a cap ship and to engage enemy means they'll focus more on incoming fighters and bombers.
That particular order is also awesome in The Sixth Wonder, if you accidentally order someone to ignore the Hawkwood. That Collie ain't firin' itz lazors at nothing no more.
A better solution then, if you're experiencing that problem, is just to order your wingmen to form on your wing when the Hawkwood arrives. I never had that sort of thing happen to me in that mission though.
I do have an issue with the AI though, when you order them to take down a targeted subsystem/turret, they never use bombs. It's pretty frustrating, especially when playing the Bearbaiting mission.
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I do have an issue with the AI though, when you order them to take down a targeted subsystem/turret, they never use bombs. It's pretty frustrating, especially when playing the Bearbaiting mission.
We all get that, Falcon, and the reason is very simple. In fact, when you learn how to order wingmen about in one of the training missions in FS1, you will know exactly why.
The thing about the AI is that, when it is told to disarm or disable a target, it will automatically switch to the weapon that does the least hull damage. In Bearbaiting, the weapon that does the least damage is the Akheton SDG, so... :rolleyes:
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The only order they'll still follow regardless of engage enemy is the "ignore my target" order. Which is really cool because telling a wing of fighters to ignore a cap ship and to engage enemy means they'll focus more on incoming fighters and bombers.
That particular order is also awesome in The Sixth Wonder, if you accidentally order someone to ignore the Hawkwood. That Collie ain't firin' itz lazors at nothing no more.
A better solution then, if you're experiencing that problem, is just to order your wingmen to form on your wing when the Hawkwood arrives. I never had that sort of thing happen to me in that mission though.
Happened to me only once, the one time I *drumroll* ordered my precious wingmen to ignore the Hawkwood. Ever since I've used this strategy: order everyone to ignore the Cato, (partially) disarm it mysef, fight the bombers and the Lokis until the Collie jumps in, take out the Cato with the wingmen if it is still there after being bombarded by the installation, order wingmen to depart, wait for the Hawkwood to jump in and get laz0r'd. The end.
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Actually, Lobo, it seems that if you order your wingmen to C-3-6 the Hawkwood, you can still continue the mission by telling them to C-3-1 it.
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Didn't work on my end. If I C-3-6'd the Hawkwood, no one attacked it. Especially not the Colossus. If I then C-3-1'd it, my wingmen would attack it and die a horrible, horrible death. The Colossus, however, would either continue to ignore it or attempt to destroy it by staring at it angrily, neither of which would result in an acceptable outcome.
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I got the same error, but by increasing time compression to x64 and waiting a while, the Colossus seemed to forget the ignore order and blew up the Hawkwood 40 or so minutes in.
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This wasn't with any recent SCP build, was it? I was under the impression that the ignore bug had been fixed ages ago.
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This wasn't with any recent SCP build, was it? I was under the impression that the ignore bug had been fixed ages ago.
Yeah, it was fixed yonks ago.
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The only order they'll still follow regardless of engage enemy is the "ignore my target" order. Which is really cool because telling a wing of fighters to ignore a cap ship and to engage enemy means they'll focus more on incoming fighters and bombers.
That particular order is also awesome in The Sixth Wonder, if you accidentally order someone to ignore the Hawkwood. That Collie ain't firin' itz lazors at nothing no more.
I think that's been fixed, hasn't it? I just played The Sixth Wonder the other day and the Colossus definitely did its beamz thing.
I played it the other day, and it did not. And I didn't tell anyone to ignore anything, either. The Colossus just sat there. It killed it just fine when I gave up and restarted the mission, though. I don't know what's up with that.