Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: boewolf on December 07, 2008, 09:54:17 pm
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I wasn't sure if I should post this in the Diaspora forum or here. So I ured on the side of caution and chose here. So I have been working on my own little tribute ti the line of the great Battlestars.
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6002/battlestarwh0.jpg)
(http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battlestar2wc6.jpg)
(http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battlestar1fi3.jpg)
(http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=battlestar3on2.jpg)
(http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=turretfs6.jpg)
I've only been working on it for a few hours. I'm also trying to work out how to greeble, so the detail is still a little on the light side.
Any ideas on how to start with extra details?
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I've only been working on it for a few hours. I'm also trying to work out how to greeble, so the detail is still a little on the light side.
Any ideas on how to start with extra details?
Work from large to small. So if you find you are doing small detals straight away then you are on the wrong track.
Before you add details, some of it has a squareness to it. Aim to sort that first.
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I would assume that your looking primarily at the back end for the squareness. but ill see what i can do with it
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I would assume that your looking primarily at the back end for the squareness. but ill see what i can do with it
Well the pods as well. Think squashed octagons.
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use the fillet tool in TS. that will do a decent job of rounding out the edges. takes a lil getting used to on its operation but it works!
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I'm not familiar with a fillet tool. Is it an addon or a tool that was introduced before 5.2?
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ehh ive only ever used 7.6... does you version have the lil ? icon thingy that brings up a list of every single tool?
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that would be a neg. but the help sections have nothing on it either. So I am going to assume it doesn't exist.
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After some frustration with truespace and a few hours later. I have this...
(http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7770/battlestar5oy1.jpg)
(http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/5506/battlestar6wc2.jpg)
The engine pods are now a lot more Galactica. The fighter bay pods on the other hand proved to be far more troublesome. So I took a more Pegasus look.
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lookin good =D i would rivet the pods too in between the downward and upward slopes
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The front section needs -alot- of work, but it's looking good so far.
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I'll admit that details aren't something I am that good at. But here is the starting point...
(http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7517/battlestar7ty1.jpg)
(http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3303/battlestar8vy2.jpg)
I have reached a point where I am thinking of turret placement. These are the ones I am using.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7866/turretfs6.jpg)
(http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/576/turret1kj8.jpg)
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I like your progress on this :) Can't wait to see more as this continues on :) Good luck.
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I've finished the main large scale details. But I have no idea on how to make small details.
Something like these..
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l77/Aardwolf001/SublightBattlecarrier/G03s-Amb.png)
Any suggestions on how things like that are done?
Also most of you have seen my extreme lack of texturing ability. When the time comes would someone like to have a go at putting some textures on it for me?
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alot of those things are just simple extrusions from inset faces. what that means is, for example, if you took a square face, and created a smaller square on that face, you end up with 2 faces in the same plane, right?
so then you take that smaller face and extrude it. That will then raise that face, perpendicular to the face it was on.
so basically, what this person did was made a bunch of those real close together and extruded them at various heights.
you can also use negative extrusions to put pits on a face as well.
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Basically like this?
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/371/greeblestw3.jpg)
Divide my face into squares and then build up or down depending on the result I am looking for?
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yep =) I can't remember if truespace has an "inset" tool or not, all that basically does is create smaller copy of the selected face on that face. if it doesn't, you can use the bevel tool at 0 degrees to do the same thing... anyways, you can use that to create smaller polygons to greeble the model, move edges and vertexes around to make them in the shape you want, etc.
*edit
sorry i didn't catch your last line there. gimme a min and i'll whip up an example for ya
ok in this first pic, i started with a simple box, inset the top face just so i have some edges on the top to begin working with
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp294/dkinnane/boxwithinsetface.jpg)
next i moved some of the edges around, inserted some vertexes added more edges, just where ever i felt like atm. selected some faces and randomly extruded or beveled them.
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp294/dkinnane/greebledbox.jpg)
now this is by no means an example of good greebles, but the concept is the same. all you're doing is adding detail to an otherwise flat surface.
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Basically like this?
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/371/greeblestw3.jpg)
Divide my face into squares and then build up or down depending on the result I am looking for?
That looks like some kind of game. Reminds me of an isometric Lemmings I played once.
And are these going to be proper Battlestars or just something based on it? I'm not very learned in BSG.
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Q-bert is what you're thinking about :P
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Basically like this?
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/371/greeblestw3.jpg)
Divide my face into squares and then build up or down depending on the result I am looking for?
That looks like some kind of game. Reminds me of an isometric Lemmings I played once.
And are these going to be proper Battlestars or just something based on it? I'm not very learned in BSG.
Well that was just me conferming what I was needing to do. This is easily the most detail I have ever put on anything I have attempted to make.
And this will be as close to a proper battlestar as I can make it. But it is my take on a battlestar. Its not meant to be the Galactica or the Pegasus. I also am not that well learned in BSG. So I am guessing a little when it comes to weapon placement. Then again I might just make a version based on Diaspora when we get to see what kind of loadout and weapon locations they use. Also a FS port and FS2 weapon loadout. After I finish this I will probably make my take of a Viper as well. Can't very well have one without the other...
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Okay, sounds good.
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The details on the fighter launch pods.
(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/713/fighterpodqk1.jpg)
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/5633/fighterpod1ny4.jpg)
I'm going to try and do something like this on sections of the front and back ends.
As for size. I was planing something around Orion. At this moment I have a layout of 36 turrets. I might add two more on the sides and four large main guns on the fighter pods (two front two back).
Can what is setup as a multipart turret in truespace be used as a single part turret in game without counting towards the multipart turret limit?
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I don't think ships are quite as big as FS ships in the BSG universe. Galactica is supposed to be around 1400m and pegasus 1850. So an Orion sized (2100m) would certainly be coceiveable, but it would be really big by in-universe standards.
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So I'll have the Battlestar Titan ;7 :yes: :no:
EDIT: I have my main LOD finished. (adding more was crashing truespace. (I don't know why. It started to CTD.)).
Starting a LOD 2, 3 and 4. Then debris.
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I've finished the LOD's, Debris. Turrets. I would like to ask for some help with texturing. Its the last thing that needs to be done before I convert and start pofing. Does anyone want to have a go?
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Raises hand in guilt. I admit it. I got it in game. I can load it in PCS2. I can't get any turret data into the pof file. I have tried three different versions of PCS2 and the turret section crashes. The textures are tiled crap so I could try and get some pof data in. I've hit a big brick wall.
Texturing to me is something I don't understand. The tutorials I read and try leave me blank.
I can load it in PCS 1 and add data through that. But there I am only guessing on if I am getting things in the right locations.
I guess what I am saying is that I have done all I can at this point. And admitting that I need help.
Anyone? Please...
(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6417/screen0003vv9.jpg)
EDIT: Got the turrets working. I don't quite have the firing points in the right place. But they work. Just pathing and subsystems to go.
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Good job :yes: Really looks and feels like classic '80 series Battlestar.
However; it could use more of mapping work... :doubt:
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Well its going a little better now. Most of the turret normals are fixed. But the subsystems aren't showing ingame or in fred.
*table entry*
$Subsystem: sensors, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: communications, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: engine1, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default900
$Subsystem: engine2, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default900
$Subsystem: engine3, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default100
$Subsystem: engine4, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default900
$Subsystem: fighterbay1, 0, 0.0
$Subsystem: fighterbay2, 0, 0.0
*PCS data* example of one system. they are all setup the same way.
name: sensors
radius: 20
properties: $special=subsystem
The location indicates that about half the target box resides inside the model itself. and PCS also indicates that the size is good for this model.
Any ideas what I have done wrong here?
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Run a debug build if you haven't already. See what happens.
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All my subsystems and two turrets are spiting up the following error.
Warning: Invalid subobj_num or model_num in subsystem 'navigation' on ship type 'TC-TRI'.
Not linking into ship!
(This warning means that a subsystem was present in mv_textures-shp.tbm and not present in the model
it should probably be removed from the table or added to the model.)
File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\ship\Ship.cpp
Line: 5690
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]
Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
ship_set() ship_create() parse_create_object_sub() parse_create_object() mission_parse_maybe_create_parse_object() post_process_ships_wings() post_process_mission() parse_mission() parse_main() mission_load() game_start_mission() game_enter_state() gameseq_set_state() game_process_event() gameseq_process_events()------------------------------------------------------------------
*full table entry*
$Name: TC-TRI
$Short name: TC-TRI
$Species: Terran
+Tech Description:
XSTR("TC-TRI containers are made by Triton Dynamics specifically to house fragile replacement parts for TD vessels that must be repaired in the field. Once these parts have been placed in storage at a repair facility, the GTVA reuses the containers in many capacities.", 3039)
$end_multi_text
$POF file: bstar.pof
$Detail distance: (0, 3500, 9000, 22000)
$Show damage: YES
$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 0.2
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 30.0
$Rotation time: 20.0, 20.0, 20.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 0.0
$Forward decel: 0.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0
$Expl inner rad: 25.0
$Expl outer rad: 75.0
$Expl damage: 50.0
$Expl blast: 100.0
$Expl Propagates: NO ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
$Shockwave Speed: 0.0 ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
$Default PBanks: ()
$Default SBanks: ()
$SBank Capacity: ()
$Shields: 0
$Power Output: 0.0
$Max Oclk Speed: 0.0
$Max Weapon Eng: 0.0
$Hitpoints: 100000
$Flags: ( "capital" "big damage" )
$AI Class: none
$Afterburner: NO
$Countermeasures: 0
$Scan time: 2000
$EngineSnd: -1 ;; Engine sound of ship
$Closeup_pos: 0.0, 0.0, -317
$Closeup_zoom: 0.7
$Score: 0
$Subsystem: Turret01,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret02,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret03,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret04,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret05,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret06,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret07,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret08,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret09,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret10,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret11,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret12,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret13,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret14,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret15,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret16,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret17,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret18,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret19,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret20,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret21,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret22,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret23,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret24,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret25,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret26,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret27,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret28,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret29,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret30,1,3.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Huge Turret" "Terran Huge Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret31,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret32,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret33,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret34,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret35,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret36,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret37,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret38,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret39,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret40,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret41,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret42,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret43,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret44,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret45,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: Turret46,1,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: sensors, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: communications, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5, 0.0
$Subsystem: engine1, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default900
$Subsystem: engine2, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default900
$Subsystem: engine3, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default100
$Subsystem: engine4, 5, 0.0
$Engine Wash: Default900
$Subsystem: fighterbay1, 0, 0.0
$Subsystem: fighterbay2, 0, 0.0
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the "not-linking" errors generally mean one of the following:
1: The sub system in question doesn't exist in the model pof
2: The sub system table entry doesn't match the sub system in the pof. The names have to be exactly the same, the only exception to that is sub systems like "Communication" and "Communications" will equate to the same thing in more recent builds, how ever debug builds i believe will still give you a notice about it saying something to that effect.
Double check in the POF that the sub systems have "$special=subsystem" in the editable box when you select the sub system name. (underneath where you type in the name and radius)
The same thing applies for the turrets. Here's a copy of an entry from the Orion from the media vp's:
Turret 01a
$special=subsystem
$fov=160
$name=main turret
Anyone wanna share what the "$name" field does exactly since it just caught my eye? :)
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POF data and table file checked, double checked and triple checked. Same problem...
Is there a Doc in the house! I got one sick model here...
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mind sending me your pof and texture(s)? i may can do something with it
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mind sending me your pof and texture(s)? i may can do something with it
No much of a problem there. How do you want me to send it off? E-mailed in a rar or how do you prefer? (no web space to host it on).
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email is fine, [email protected]
and .zip is preferred =p i hate rars
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ok i've found one of the problems right off the bat. the sub system names all need to begin with "$" so like "$Sensors" etc
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Thank you. I didn't know about that detail. Now just to fix that and work on some docking paths and fighterbay paths.
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that was the only bug problem other than a null moment of inertia. You can either click on the recalculate button under Moment of Inertia with the header selected. or copy and paste one from a ship of comparable size.
good work so far =) not counting the mapping, the ship looks good. once you figure out how UV mapping works, im sure this will turn out quite nice =)
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Anyone wanna share what the "$name" field does exactly since it just caught my eye? :)
It's the turret name when you are targeting turrets. Might be k hotkey
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i thought they only showed up as beam turret, laser turret, missile launcher when targeted
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It gives more info on the top left (if you set $name=gunturret, it'll show "Targeting gunturret") or something like that. if you know for use what weapon is going where, you could tell the players more information (ie. setting it to $name=50mm Rapid-fire type Flak will show "Targeting 50mm Rapid-fire type Flak").
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hmmmzzzz.... so if i wanted to do a ship from a non FS type universe that has phaser banks instead of frikkin laser beams... i could use $name=phaser bank and it'll show up as "Phaser Bank"?
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when you target it with "v" yes. (but only on the top left). The targeting thing at the bottom will still say beam cannon.
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Working on the docking paths at the moment. I've been following http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fstut/fstut_index01.htm (http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/fstut/fstut_index01.htm) to get me started. After following these instructions I find myself unable to dock anything as the dock points are blank in Fred. Any ideas what I have skipped or just plain left out?
The fighterbays are fine. they work rather well.
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capital ships can't dock by default, they can only receive... you can order craft to dock with the ship but not the other way around... least wise with out modifying the AI table
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That is kinda my point. I have followed the instructions for a dock path (I even examined the one for the Orion). But nothing can dock with the battlestar. Inside the initial status window of the ship window. there is a list of the available dock points. After adding the path I don't know how to get the actual dock point. Without a dock point in the list to chose from nothing can dock.
Don't worry. I was being blind and i did forget something
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when you target it with "v" yes. (but only on the top left). The targeting thing at the bottom will still say beam cannon.
Couldn't you just modify script.tbl so that it reads 'Phaser Bank' instead of 'Beam Cannon'?
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Ok. So here is my last big problem before texturing. The hug gauge in the bottom left. The one that has the targeted ship in it. How do I go about fixing this issue?
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/23/hudcameraboxprobwb4.jpg)
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thats the PoV setting in the table, isnt it?
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i thought they only showed up as beam turret, laser turret, missile launcher when targeted
Not sure what I was thinking
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thats the PoV setting in the table, isnt it?
Yes, you need to experiment with that value, or copy one of a similar sized :v: ship.
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I know it's probably not up the standard. But would you Diaspora people be interested in adding this to your list of fun stuff when \ if I ever get this finished?
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I know it's probably not up the standard. But would you Diaspora people be interested in adding this to your list of fun stuff when \ if I ever get this finished?
Well, ask Karajorma for that yourself :)
I guess it'll be called as third party model, but it might be official if you do for it very detailed textures and it'll show very high quality.
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Shiv's basically nailed it. I've got no problem with you sticking that ship in a 3D party mod of some sort but it's simply not of the same quality as the rest of our ships.
That said, since this is your own design and model you can always set yourself the goal of being the first person to release a nBSG battlestar. :) It's not like you've modelled a ship (like Pegasus or Galactica) that we'll be doing. :)
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That's a good plan actually - with the BtRL Demo stuff publically available, there are certain to be lots of FREDders who'd jump all over a publically available battlestar to toss into the fray.
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That's a good plan actually - with the BtRL Demo stuff publically available, there are certain to be lots of FREDders who'd jump all over a publically available battlestar to toss into the fray.
Finally there'll be some big battles except those in my Battlecruiser Archangel demo for BtRL.
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thats the PoV setting in the table, isnt it?
Yes, you need to experiment with that value, or copy one of a similar sized :v: ship.
Where do I find this value? I've been searching the ship table to no avail? Am I looking in the right place?
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$Closeup_pos:
* How the model will show at techroom. The position of the camera relative to the model in the tech room and the target box view
* Syntax: Vector, three floats, x, y and z values respectively
$Closeup_zoom:
* How the model will show at techroom. How far the camera's zoomed in, defines camera's FOV.
* Syntax: Float, radians
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships.tbl
theres a list of all the funky lil table entries you can put in there
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I had a HDD problem over the last couple of days. I didn't lose too much work on this... Just a few paths and a couple of docking points. But when I reload what worked about 4 days ago now spits out this error.
Error: ships.tbl(line 4323:
Error: Required token = [#End], [$Subsystem:] or [$Name], found [a$Name: Battlestar ].
File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Parse\PARSELO.CPP
Line: 659
[This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable]
Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
The debug gives me the same response. Any ideas?
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Error: ships.tbl(line 4323:
Error: Required token = [#End], [$Subsystem:] or [$Name], found [a$Name: Battlestar ].
Did you check that line? If it says it found "a$Name: Battlestar", check the table and see whether you've got a rogue "a". Don't know how it would have sneaked in, though.
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Could have accidentally bumped a key without realizing it while the cursor was there. I do that all the damn time.
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I have been playing around a bit more with this. I have been trying to do a better texture job (you don't want to see the results). But I am working on a more GTVA style one as well. More of a replacement to the Colie. Big scary and lots of guns. Anyone want to help with the textures yet?
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Have you tried existing sources? (particularly BSG oriented ones).
Also when you texture (from my noob non-texturing POV) don't worry about the actualy texture. Worry more abou tplacement, how you envision it looking. In these spots is tiled hull, that a bridge window of some sort, and then later make the textures fit.
Since I run into that all the time I adapted.
Taking a texture and rotating it or cropping a section of it can often make a stop-gap texture that does what you want it to do in the meantime.
BTW great job!
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Note taken. I'll keep trying. but you should know that as a male... I have a greater understanding of the opposite sex more than I understand texturing.
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Truth be told. I am having can't seem to apply more than one tiled texture in truespace 5.2, and I don't have any other mapping program at my disposal. What is simple to use yet still relatively free that I can use to apply textures?
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LithUnwrap? I honestly don't know if that does what you need but I believe it was useful at one point in time around here.