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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: CKid on December 11, 2008, 06:55:24 pm

Title: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: CKid on December 11, 2008, 06:55:24 pm
So I am replaying the main campaign with the new mediavps and I just got to the mission "The Sixth Wonder" and I noticed something different. The station has two BGreen's. In a matter of moments, the station destroyed the NTC Cato and the NTCv Hawkwood before the Colossus could even jump in. I am trying to figure out how the hell this happen. I have played this mission countless times before and this is the first time I've ever the station armed with such firepower. The only thing that is different from the last time I played this mission is that I am using 3.9.10 Mediavps.

Edit: It is also armed with 2 AAAF's, 10 Standard Flak, 2 Harpoon missile launchers and 1 MX-52 launcher.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: tinfoil on December 11, 2008, 06:59:45 pm
what the ****??? enif is a civilian station.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: terran_emperor on December 11, 2008, 07:05:14 pm
Does that second cruiser still warp in after the Hawkwood is distroyed?
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Mars on December 11, 2008, 07:12:31 pm
Did you mess around with FRED?
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: CKid on December 11, 2008, 07:18:35 pm
Does that second cruiser still warp in after the Hawkwood is distroyed?

Second cruiser? What the @#$! you talking about? There never been a second cruiser. As soon as Enif station wiped out the Hawkwood I quit the game to type up this post.

Checks "The Sixth Wonder" in Fred. Holy crap, where did that cruiser come from. That's never been there before.

Did you mess around with FRED?

No I have not.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Droid803 on December 11, 2008, 07:28:05 pm
The NTC Conquest has always been there.
 I guess Enif Station has always had BGreens, it just wasn't beam-freed...until now. I'll check retail to be sure.

EDIT: Nope, Enif Station doesn't have beams in retail, nor does it have beams in the 3.6.10 missions. You must have a mod somewhere that's interfering.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: CKid on December 11, 2008, 07:39:21 pm
The NTC Conquest has always been there.

Has not. It was always been just the Cato and Hawkwood. After you take out Cato, the Hawkwood jumps in and pounds the station for a while and then the Colossus would jump in and destroy the Hawkwood. After that you would get the order to jump back to base.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Droid803 on December 11, 2008, 07:54:03 pm
The Conquest has always been in the mission.
Its arrival trigger is when the Hawkwood is destroyed AND the Colossus has not arrived.
That is impossible to do in the main campaign aside from cheating, due to the "big damage" flag.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: CKid on December 11, 2008, 07:55:56 pm
Ok, I have found the problem. I had the campaign "Second Front" in my Freespace folder as vp file, which used a heavy-armed Arcadia. I find it weird that I have played the mission "The Sixth Wonder" many times before when I had the Second front campaign in my freespace directory and never had the problem before.

The Conquest has always been in the mission.
Its arrival trigger is when the Hawkwood is destroyed AND the Colossus has not arrived.
That is impossible to do in the main campaign aside from cheating, due to the "big damage" flag.

??? I can honesty say that I never seen the Conquest in that mission. I can still remember from the first day that I played Freespace 2 in 2000, I never engaged that warship before.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: ssmit132 on December 11, 2008, 08:04:11 pm
Probably because the 3.9.10 version of "The Sixth Wonder" has beam-free-all.

Wait, no. I've just looked at the mission in notepad from the 3.9.10 VPs, and there is an event that beam-frees Enif, Hawkwood and Cato at the start. However, this is present in the retail version, too.

(Although not canon, in my opinion the Arcadia should have a few anti-cap beams on it.)
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Mars on December 11, 2008, 08:09:14 pm
The reactor may not support them
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on December 11, 2008, 08:14:07 pm
Ok, I have found the problem. I had the campaign "Second Front" in my Freespace folder as vp file, which used a heavy-armed Arcadia. I find it weird that I have played the mission "The Sixth Wonder" many times before when I had the Second front campaign in my freespace directory and never had the problem before.


Well there you go. I was already about to check the Arcadia tables in mediaVP's, but it's good to notice that FSU team is not needed to solve every issue after all... ;)

Quote
The Conquest has always been in the mission.
Its arrival trigger is when the Hawkwood is destroyed AND the Colossus has not arrived.
That is impossible to do in the main campaign aside from cheating, due to the "big damage" flag.

??? I can honesty say that I never seen the Conquest in that mission. I can still remember from the first day that I played Freespace 2 in 2000, I never engaged that warship before.

That's because the Hawkwood is pretty much impossible to destroy in the retail aside from cheating, so the Colossus will be the element that destroys it, and after it's jumped in, the Conquest doesn't jump in.

I think :v: included the Conquest in the early phase of the campaign, for extra content for players who managed to wipe out the Hawkwood, but added the "big damage" flag later to put some missions on the plot-required railroad tracks (ie. prevent the players from destroying things they shouldn't destroy) or something like that, which made the Conquest redundant in 6th Wonder, but they didn't bother to remove it.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Black Wolf on December 11, 2008, 08:17:56 pm
I'd disagree on anti cap, but IIRC it's even missing AAA beaams, which it should have.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: CKid on December 11, 2008, 08:19:00 pm

That's because the Hawkwood is pretty much impossible to destroy in the retail aside from cheating, so the Colossus will be the element that destroys it, and after it's jumped in, the Conquest doesn't jump in.

I think :v: included the Conquest in the early phase of the campaign, for extra content for players who managed to wipe out the Hawkwood, but added the "big damage" flag later to put some missions on the plot-required railroad tracks (ie. prevent the players from destroying things they shouldn't destroy) or something like that, which made the Conquest redundant in 6th Wonder, but they didn't bother to remove it.

Ok, Now it makes sense.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: terran_emperor on December 11, 2008, 08:29:05 pm
The reactor may not support them

Or they were installed, but no-one remembered to plug them in
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Rodo on December 11, 2008, 08:47:03 pm
Conquest?? what Conquest?? there's no Conquest in that mission, just the transport, the Hackwood and the Cato, there's seriously another cruiser in that mission?
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 11, 2008, 08:51:03 pm
If there was a ship named the Conquest, it should show up in FRED. Everything does.

By the way, speaking of previously unknown stuff, I heard, for the first time, a short description of the NTCv Danton (in Endgame) by Command. It sounds a bit like this:

Quote from: Command
The NTCv Danton has jumped in! Engage at your discretion pilots. We've lost [number] wings and [number] ships in [system] engaging this warship.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Droid803 on December 11, 2008, 08:58:22 pm
Well, the Danton gets vaporized by the Colossus pretty fast, so I guess there wasn't a point in making it sound fearsome.
Anyone else every find Endgame to be a little...too easy compared to the previous two missions? All you need to do is take out one wing of Zeus bombers going after the GTCv Monitor, sit back, and watch.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Mars on December 11, 2008, 09:09:30 pm
The fact that it gets vaporized instantly by the Colossus is an excellent reason to make it sound fierce
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: terran_emperor on December 11, 2008, 10:02:31 pm
Conquest?? what Conquest?? there's no Conquest in that mission, just the transport, the Hackwood and the Cato, there's seriously another cruiser in that mission?

Use cheats to kill the Deimos, and lo behold as the NTC Conquest warps in.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Droid803 on December 11, 2008, 10:23:21 pm
The Conquest has no anti-cap beams, nor AAAfs, though, so its not a threat to Enif Station nor your wing at all.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: eliex on December 12, 2008, 12:37:56 am
Maybe it was added to boost player points or something as a reward.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Rick James on December 12, 2008, 12:50:11 am
Maybe it was added to boost player points or something as a reward.

No, more likely that it was added in case the player managed to avoid the Hawkwood's anti-fighter weapons and somehow blow it up. The Colossus needs to blow up something in the mission. Otherwise, why have it appear at all?
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 12, 2008, 01:16:09 am
/me suddenly finds it very tempting to siggify the post above this one.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: eliex on December 12, 2008, 02:17:26 am
No, more likely that it was added in case the player managed to avoid the Hawkwood's anti-fighter weapons and somehow blow it up. The Colossus needs to blow up something in the mission. Otherwise, why have it appear at all?

Oh yeah - that mission was supposed to be the grand entrance of the Colossus right?

*smashes head on desk
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: KappaWing on December 12, 2008, 06:09:41 am
What is the "big-damage" flag, and how does it prevent you from killing a corvette?
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: pecenipicek on December 12, 2008, 06:17:23 am
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships.tbl#.22big_damage.22
Quote
"big damage"

    * Limits the damage made to the ship by non-huge weapons.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Droid803 on December 12, 2008, 06:06:11 pm
Basically, it exponentially reduces damage after 10%.
At 1% HP left, the Corvette will be invulnerable to weapons without the 'Huge' flag.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 13, 2008, 08:27:28 am
That big damage flag was probably meant to make things more realistic.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Rodo on December 13, 2008, 08:34:44 am
I've noticed this before... like in the mission where the Aquaetine need to be evacuated from the nebula and a Moloch jumps in, I usually stay behind (with the disabled Moloch...I save big things for the last) trying to destroy it but even with all of my wingmen shooting at it it's not blowing up! 1% and not exploding!!!

It would look more realistic just making the fighters completely useless against Cap ships, only being able to destroy turrets and subsystems.
The only non cap ship that should be able to destroy a cap ship is the bomber with it's bombs ,from common sense point of view of course.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 13, 2008, 08:42:59 am
Actually, Rodo, I think the Trebuchet CAN destroy ships with the big damage flag on them. Any weapon that has the huge flag on it can do the final 10% of damage to a ship with the big damage flag.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: castor on December 13, 2008, 08:55:05 am
The only non cap ship that should be able to destroy a cap ship is the bomber with it's bombs ,from common sense point of view of course.
Hm.. the concept of concentrated fire would be nice to have in the game. Imagine a wing of fighters boring through a capship hull.. To have it possible to destroy, but tough in practice.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: ssmit132 on December 13, 2008, 06:07:59 pm
Actually, Rodo, I think the Trebuchet CAN destroy ships with the big damage flag on them. Any weapon that has the huge flag on it can do the final 10% of damage to a ship with the big damage flag.

I've looked at the table, won't having "Bomber+" AND "huge" stuff up the AI?
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Rodo on December 13, 2008, 06:13:14 pm
well about that I don't know, I wasn't carrying Trebs for that mission
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: eliex on December 13, 2008, 11:52:21 pm
I don't think that the Trebuchet is available in the mission unless via cheating.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Droid803 on December 13, 2008, 11:54:27 pm
Actually, Rodo, I think the Trebuchet CAN destroy ships with the big damage flag on them. Any weapon that has the huge flag on it can do the final 10% of damage to a ship with the big damage flag.

I've looked at the table, won't having "Bomber+" AND "huge" stuff up the AI?

Yeah, it does.
Consequently, the AI decides never to fire Trebuchets at all.
Take them all for yourself.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 14, 2008, 03:30:29 am
I heard that somewhere before, Droid, which is why I no longer give Trebuchets to my wingmen. :)
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: eliex on December 14, 2008, 03:43:01 am
Someone tried to fix that but then in some missions, e.g A Failure to Communicate, was rendered unable to be won.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: ssmit132 on December 14, 2008, 03:56:07 am
"A Failure to Communicate" is a FS1/FSPort mission, and so would not have Trebuchets.

How so did it make the affected missions impossible, may I ask?
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: terran_emperor on December 14, 2008, 09:09:36 am
If its the one where the Lucy takes out the B-Aquilae Installation, then I kinda rely on the Phoenix (which is the FS1 equivalent to the Treb) to take out fighters.
Its possible that messing with the Treb somehow screwed up the Phoenix data
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Mars on December 14, 2008, 11:23:02 am
Yeah, the Phoenix is pretty much the only way to take out the Demons in a timely manner on that map.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: ssmit132 on December 14, 2008, 06:18:30 pm
[pedantic]Dragons. Not Demons.[/pedantic]

EDIT: 300 posts. Hmm, not really a big milestone.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Mars on December 14, 2008, 06:22:14 pm
rofl .. . oops

but you know what I mean
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: terran_emperor on December 14, 2008, 06:50:51 pm
Oh yeah! Protecting those life-pods is a B***h, especially as you have to beat the mission perfectly on Medium to get the medal
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Mars on December 14, 2008, 08:47:11 pm
There's a dirty trick, but if you can't figure it out, I'm not going to tell you  :p

It makes it quite doable even at hard / very hard.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: terran_emperor on December 14, 2008, 09:08:37 pm
If you mean by leaving one of the Dragons alive, which prevents the other Shivan forces from jumping in, then I already know that trick. But i hate Dragons more than basilisks
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Droid803 on December 14, 2008, 09:38:20 pm
Dragons can't really hurt convoy craft as much as Basilisks can.
Though since you're talking about escape pods, doesn't make much of a difference.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: terran_emperor on December 14, 2008, 09:59:01 pm
I know. But I find Dragons are more of a ***** on medium than the Basilisks are.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: Mars on December 14, 2008, 10:35:55 pm
You kill the dragons but you keep a basi alive, distracting it so it doesn't think to hurt the convoy
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: eliex on December 14, 2008, 11:39:11 pm
"A Failure to Communicate" is a FS1/FSPort mission, and so would not have Trebuchets.

How so did it make the affected missions impossible, may I ask?

When you have to defend the Faustus before the Hope comes round, Shaitans attacking the Faustus are equipped with Phoenix V's. With the AI being altered a little, the Shaitans could fire their hi-damage Phoenix's at the Faustus before Alpha 1 could destroy the wing completely.
Title: Re: GTI Arcadia Got Beams?
Post by: ssmit132 on December 15, 2008, 01:59:50 am
I do understand that, but I was referring to the fact that the Trebuchet is not in FS1/FSPort.

I see that the Phoenix V only has 'Bomber+'. At least the AI would fire it, and I'm sure "A Failure to Communicate" would be a right mess if it had 'huge' instead. Those Shaitans would rip through Aquilae Comms like a hot knife through butter. Even though they are Shaitans.  :p

(Yet another thread goes off on a tangent  :lol:)