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Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: SPECTRE87 on February 11, 2009, 05:11:46 pm

Title: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 11, 2009, 05:11:46 pm
Hi, first post here...

I'm just another fan of the Freespace games and just like the rest of you folks I've been pretty tired to see how badly the game has fallen behind, visually, compared to the awesome graphics we see to day, and sadly no gaming company has a place in their heart for us Space-Sim fans anymore, which is a shame really... Anyhow I decided to re-model the Orion-class Destroyer from the bottom up using SketchUp and a few reference pictures coupled with my own imagination of what the Orion should be like - Given enough polygons.

Hope you'll like it, and hope it's not too over detailed to be useful... My best guest puts it around 40-50k polygons.

(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5631/gtdorion3il2.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/2082/gtdorion4kj9.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8249/gtdorion2yi8.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6858/gtdorionks9.png) (http://imageshack.us)

So far the weapons are also 100% custom, but this can of cause easily change as they have been made as separate objects...

(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4720/gtdoriongq7.th.png) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtdoriongq7.png)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Rodo on February 11, 2009, 05:30:30 pm
hey that's nice! I like it  :yes:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: IceFire on February 11, 2009, 05:38:41 pm
Looks really good!
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 11, 2009, 06:18:58 pm
Nice!  :yes: I like what you did there with the antennae.

I wish someone would do something that wasn't already done before...twice...though.
Oh well, I can dream on I guess.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 11, 2009, 06:27:26 pm
VERY impressive! :eek2:

Wait till Goober sees this. He's been pushing harder than anyone else for a new Orion.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: StarSlayer on February 11, 2009, 06:31:25 pm
Heh nice to see you made the jump over from SFM.  Looks good.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Unknown Target on February 11, 2009, 06:32:57 pm
VERY impressive! :eek2:

Wait till Goober sees this. He's been pushing harder than anyone else for a new Orion.

Unfortunately, since it's a Sketchup mesh, it's pretty much useless in a game engine.

Still, nice work, very nice model/design.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Goober5000 on February 11, 2009, 06:33:37 pm
Hey, awesome!  This looks very impressive, especially for a newbie!  Welcome, and great job. :)

There are a few places where this looks weird, or not quite right -- most notably the engines and back-top slope.  But overall I like it. :yes:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 11, 2009, 07:53:42 pm
VERY impressive! :eek2:

Wait till Goober sees this. He's been pushing harder than anyone else for a new Orion.

What's wrong with the two versions done by you and Trashman? Not that it's not a great mesh, but it's effort better spent on the Colossus or Hatshepsut.

VERY impressive! :eek2:

Wait till Goober sees this. He's been pushing harder than anyone else for a new Orion.

Unfortunately, since it's a Sketchup mesh, it's pretty much useless in a game engine.

Still, nice work, very nice model/design.
Why is Sketchup useless, exactly? Can its models not be converted like models from Blender, Max, Truespace, or even Rhino?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: General Battuta on February 11, 2009, 09:07:58 pm
Hi, first post here...

I'm just another fan of the Freespace games and just like the rest of you folks I've been pretty tired to see how badly the game has fallen behind, visually, compared to the awesome graphics we see to day, and sadly no gaming company has a place in their heart for us Space-Sim fans anymore, which is a shame really... Anyhow I decided to re-model the Orion-class Destroyer from the bottom up using SketchUp and a few reference pictures coupled with my own imagination of what the Orion should be like - Given enough polygons


Have you played the game with the MediaVPs turned on? It doesn't look much (if any) shabbier than modern games in most respects.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: kalnaren on February 11, 2009, 09:39:45 pm
Not bad at all. Has a very star warsy look to it. Not sure if I personally like it or not (I almost like the original orion better than the new one), but nonetheless excellent work.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 11, 2009, 09:48:51 pm
Why is Sketchup useless, exactly? Can its models not be converted like models from Blender, Max, Truespace, or even Rhino?


It tends to create all kinds of wonky autogenerated polygons inside the mesh and leave holes to the main mesh and converting it is a pain in the ass, from what I've heard, and from my limited attempts at doodling something in sketchup I can say I would probably agree.

It's great for simple stuff like simplified houses, but try and create anything more complex on it and you'll be sweating acid and crying caustic soda after a while of fighting the system that wants to make a face to every full "circle" you draw. :ick:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 11, 2009, 10:40:15 pm
What's wrong with the two versions done by you and Trashman? Not that it's not a great mesh, but it's effort better spent on the Colossus or Hatshepsut.

First, that was Bobboau's mesh, I just textured it. Second... I'm spending some effort on the Colossus. See below.

Quote
Why is Sketchup useless, exactly? Can its models not be converted like models from Blender, Max, Truespace, or even Rhino?

As Herra stated, models made in SketchUp don't translate well to real-time rendering. I've been spending a few hours just cleaning up the Colossus (which was done in SketchUp) and it's quite tedious.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 11, 2009, 10:44:58 pm
I thought the Colossus was made in Cinema 4d... :wtf:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 11, 2009, 11:44:17 pm
Maybe it was... but it's still a mess. :blah:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 11, 2009, 11:46:59 pm
Maybe it was... but it's still a mess. :blah:

I've seen the model.  I know... :shaking:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 12, 2009, 03:15:09 am
I've made a couple of larger and more detailed models for another independent MMO, which didn't have any problems in converting skp. files into 3DS. However I have heard about the export problems before but my later models weren't the ones that was causing pain among the developers. Anyhow what kind of polygon budget are you guys working on for the ship classes?



(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/4668/gtdorion5ws4.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Dilmah G on February 12, 2009, 05:33:28 am
Wow, that looks *Borat Voice* "Highly sexual"

Although the rounded back isn't something I'm a fan of, it still looks great.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 12, 2009, 06:51:46 am
How many times do me and blowfish have to go over this? If you've got weird faces inside your model in SU, then you're doing something wrong. Exporting in 3ds format exports with no problems, and you need only find somebody who has SU pro or download the trial. That said, it's not the best program feature wise. You're going to want to use something else if you're working on a more rounded ship. (Well, UT Managed to do it, but I have no idea how, and I imagine the process is long and frustrating).

That said, the model itself is gorgeous. Send it to me and i'll sort out any errors and convert it to .3ds for somebody to UV map and texture.  :nod:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 12, 2009, 07:15:28 am
Well, I'm interested in knowing the exact poly-count and of cause if it can be successfully exported without too much pain and frustration.
So, you you guys have a FTP server I can upload it to?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Dilmah G on February 12, 2009, 07:16:50 am
Well, I'm interested in knowing the exact poly-count and of cause if it can be successfully exported without too much pain and frustration.
So, you you guys have a FTP server I can upload it to?

www.freespacemods.net

You should be able to make an account and upload there.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: karajorma on February 12, 2009, 09:54:36 am
Hope you'll like it, and hope it's not too over detailed to be useful... My best guest puts it around 40-50k polygons.

That should be well within the number of polys the engine can handle. :)

Glad to see you've decided to join us from Sci Fi Meshes. :)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: peterv on February 12, 2009, 12:05:33 pm
Anyhow what kind of polygon budget are you guys working on for the ship classes?

Fighters/Bombers - Less than 6000 Polygons
Cruisers/Freighters - 6000-12000 Polygons
Corvettes - 14000-18000 Polygons
Destroyers - 20000-24000 Polygons
Juggernauts - 24000 Polygons upwards

It's for the Lod0.
Very nice model BTW.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 12, 2009, 12:53:23 pm
40-50,000 polygons is quite a bit though...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 12, 2009, 02:10:31 pm
Is that polycount triangulated or not?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 12, 2009, 03:29:30 pm
 :confused: SketchUp isn't particularly friendly with such things.. I honestly have no idea  :ick:
But the thing is that this is an old model I made years ago, which I recently restored, optimized and made 'better'. There are many polygons which aren't used effectively, but this can be fixed, and likely will be once I get a final one on the Poly budget for the Orion.

Anyhow I'll uploaded to the 3Dwarehouse so feel free to take a closer look at it.

Nick: HustlerJohn (lame, I know  :lol:)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 12, 2009, 03:30:43 pm
Cutting the polycount in half is a pretty tall order...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 12, 2009, 04:50:49 pm
From looking at it now i'd guess it's within 40k polys. The HTL Hades is 80k polys.  ;)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 12, 2009, 05:02:17 pm
But the Hades is a unique ship - one of a kind, there will only ever be one, and its a fair but larger.
You occasionally see more than one Orion in a mission.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 12, 2009, 05:11:32 pm
I don't recall any mission where you see multiple Orions or Hecates. Anyhow have you guys stress tested the engine yet or just assuming?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 12, 2009, 05:42:11 pm
:confused: SketchUp isn't particularly friendly with such things.. I honestly have no idea  :ick:

Go to model info, and find the number of faces.  This is the untriangulated polygon count.  It's hard to tell, but I find that usually the triangulated polycount (what will matter in-game) is usually ~2.5 - 3 times this.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 12, 2009, 05:54:04 pm
I don't recall any mission where you see multiple Orions or Hecates.
Well, there are a lot of user-made campaigns out there. ;)

Anyhow have you guys stress tested the engine yet or just assuming?  :rolleyes:
Not just assuming. Sure faster computers will run even an 80k HTL Hades model, but as it is my ****ty computer slows to around 20FPS with 30k model.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Jadehawk on February 12, 2009, 06:03:42 pm
For file uploads and so, It's free and works very well for me with no problems.


http://www.mediafire.com/
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 12, 2009, 06:17:12 pm
We have LODs for a reason.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 12, 2009, 08:46:06 pm
I don't recall any mission where you see multiple Orions or Hecates. Anyhow have you guys stress tested the engine yet or just assuming?  :rolleyes:

Slient Threat.
The GTD Myrmidon and the GTD.
And then there are user made campaigns, as Snail has pointed out.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 12, 2009, 11:43:59 pm
We have LODs for a reason.

And the polycount is far less of an issue than the texel count and number of bitmaps.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: BrotherBryon on February 13, 2009, 12:34:26 am
Overall I really like it. It brings back the functional details that I think the current HTL model lacks. As some of the others have said the engines and back slope don't quite look right.

Glad to see another Sketch-up user in the mix. Yeah it can be a bit clunky when you get into some of the heavy detailing and curved structures (I'm kind of beating my head against a wall on the shivan fighter I'm currently playing around with) but as long as you are disciplined enough to clean up excess faces as you go along conversions don't seem to big a deal for those that know how to do it. (Tips hat to blowfish for all his help converting the models I've done)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 13, 2009, 12:43:06 am
Glad to see another Sketch-up user in the mix. Yeah it can be a bit clunky when you get into some of the heavy detailing and curved structures (I'm kind of beating my head against a wall on the shivan fighter I'm currently playing around with) but as long as you are disciplined enough to clean up excess faces as you go along conversions don't seem to big a deal for those that know how to do it. (Tips hat to blowfish for all his help converting the models I've done)

All I've really done so far is convert the Hippocrates to 3ds, which took all of about 30 seconds :P  Your meshes are very clean compared to some of the stuff I've seen in SketchUp :)  I guess it really lies in the hands of the modeler to fix geometry errors as they come up.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: DaBrain on February 13, 2009, 01:28:08 am
40-50,000 polygons is quite a bit though...

I think around 40k should be perfectly fine.

You have to think in on-screen polygons. And there aren't any missions with more than one Orion.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 13, 2009, 02:50:44 am
40-50,000 polygons is quite a bit though...

I think around 40k should be perfectly fine.

You have to think in on-screen polygons. And there aren't any retail missions with more than one Orion.

Fixed.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 13, 2009, 04:13:56 am
Not just assuming. Sure faster computers will run even an 80k HTL Hades model, but as it is my ****ty computer slows to around 20FPS with 30k model.

No offense but that is just a very poor argument for not having detailed capital ship models in the game.  :lol:

40-50,000 polygons is quite a bit though...

I think around 40k should be perfectly fine.

You have to think in on-screen polygons. And there aren't any retail missions with more than one Orion.

Fixed.

The best missions tends not to be overloaded with ships...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: peterv on February 13, 2009, 06:31:51 am
40-50,000 polygons is quite a bit though...

I think around 40k should be perfectly fine.

You have to think in on-screen polygons. And there aren't any missions with more than one Orion.

Guys, if we're about to change the roules, let's do it officially, OK?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Flipside on February 13, 2009, 06:35:46 am
They are talking main campaign, not user campaigns.

A lot can be fixed with Lods remember, whilst there might be user campaigns with more than one Orion on screen, the odds of the two of them being close enough to display Lod 0 at the same time should be minimal if the model is lodded correctly.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 13, 2009, 06:58:50 am
Those polycounts are only vague guidelines - don't take them as rigid limits. Some better guidelines I think would be:

1) Try to bring the model to life, and use as many polys as it takes to make it look built instead of modelled.

2) While you should put on as much detail as you like, keep it within reason for a game engine. For example, hundreds of thousands of polys on a capship would be just as unreasonable as thousands of polys on a nav bouey or cargo crate.

3) Keep it UV mappable and texturable - this is 100 times more important if you don't plan on UVing/texturing it yourself. An 80 000 poly model is pretty useless if left untextured due to it's shear complexity. ;)

4) Keep the smaller detail as modular as possible, and separate from the hull so you can put it into a detail boxed subobject for improved in-game performance.

5) Don't worry about older computers when dealing with polycounts. This may sound like I'm blowing them off, but what I mean is that it's FAR FAR easier to rip extra detail off for lower end versions than it is to add detail later when the still relatively low poly ship sticks out against the rest! :)

Nice work on the orion btw. :)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 13, 2009, 09:30:12 am
1) Check - Pretty much what I'm aiming for

2) I'm in the process of cutting down on unnessesary polygons and optimizing the model itself.

3) Well, I'm not really capable of doing this myself (the UV mapping) But I've made a couple of models for another game, and the developers there has never complained about the quality of the modeling - So it should be clean and ready.

4) Please elaborate some more? :)

5) Agreed ;)

Btw; Seems like there are some people that don't like what I've done to the back end of the ship. I'd like to know why and what you think should be done instead?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Flipside on February 13, 2009, 09:36:00 am
On 4, he means make any small detail-groups as sub-objects, rather than as part of the main object, there's a function on SCP which allows Lodding of individual sub-systems seperate from the standard entire-model lods, if you group the fine detail into sub-objects, then they can be enabled/disabled at certain distances, thus allowing more control over the number of polys on screen at any one time :) IIRC someone once made an entire Death-Star using this technique ;)

For this to work, obviously, the polys need to be seperate from the main body, and not welded on, else removing them would create a big hole in the side of the ship otherwise ;)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 13, 2009, 09:38:29 am
Ah I see :)... Any suggestions? I've already separated the weapons and the radars from the main object.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 13, 2009, 10:37:42 am
Not just assuming. Sure faster computers will run even an 80k HTL Hades model, but as it is my ****ty computer slows to around 20FPS with 30k model.

No offense but that is just a very poor argument for not having detailed capital ship models in the game.  :lol:
NOBODY CARES ABOUT ME AND MY ****TY COMPUTER WAAAAH :(
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 13, 2009, 11:00:10 am
(http://www.linux-france.org/prj/jargonf/fig/ROFLMAO.jpg)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 13, 2009, 02:21:03 pm
Usually I don't laugh at image macros, but that...that is genius! :lol:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 13, 2009, 03:50:00 pm
The best missions tends not to be overloaded with ships...

I think you need to play some more user made campaigns. *points to BP and the to be released TotT intro*
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 14, 2009, 07:53:52 pm
You guys are forgetting that an Orion comes in close contact with a Colossus.
But then again, who cares about lower-end PCs. :P

Anyways, they're right that any extra detail can be removed if need be.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SypheDMar on February 14, 2009, 08:03:33 pm
I like the way this Orion looks. It appears to be sleeker. :yes:

An Orion also comes near a Typhon while Alpha 1 is of the Suicide Kings, but I do agree that lower-end PCs should not interfere with the development of a model. By the way, I don't like BP, and I never finished it after the first few missions.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 14, 2009, 08:07:43 pm
Well, ragingloli's High-Polygon GTVA Colossus isn't fixed up and turreted yet, but yeah, that might cause some computers to commit suicide.
But who cares.
People can always upgrade, right?

The Typhon isn't high poly (yet- It got de-htl-ized), and the mission is with the 64th raptors or something (the bomber squad).
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Rhymes on February 14, 2009, 08:08:22 pm
Not just assuming. Sure faster computers will run even an 80k HTL Hades model, but as it is my ****ty computer slows to around 20FPS with 30k model.

No offense but that is just a very poor argument for not having detailed capital ship models in the game.  :lol:
NOBODY CARES ABOUT ME AND MY ****TY COMPUTER WAAAAH :(

Why?  How bad is your ****ty computer?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: General Battuta on February 14, 2009, 08:08:38 pm
I like the way this Orion looks. It appears to be sleeker. :yes:

An Orion also comes near a Typhon while Alpha 1 is of the Suicide Kings, but I do agree that lower-end PCs should not interfere with the development of a model. By the way, I don't like BP, and I never finished it after the first few missions.

Any feedback for Darius? You should post it over there.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SypheDMar on February 14, 2009, 09:49:43 pm

The Typhon isn't high poly (yet- It got de-htl-ized)
I think that's irrelevant. It's about having more than one destroyer in the main campaign.

and the mission is with the 64th raptors or something (the bomber squad).
Yes, my mistake.

Any feedback for Darius? You should post it over there.
Not really. I just didn't like the story. It was too slow, and it felt more like a fantasy drama than a sci-fi shooter.

Btw; Seems like there are some people that don't like what I've done to the back end of the ship. I'd like to know why and what you think should be done instead?
I really don't mind it, but I do think the engine looks somewhat squished. The original Orion has two rectangular blocks, though.

Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 14, 2009, 09:53:49 pm
The engines should be sunken in more in the hull. As for the back of the bridge, something just looks... wrong about it. I'd have to see the model itself and play with it a bit.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 14, 2009, 10:37:44 pm
By the way, I don't like BP, and I never finished it after the first few missions.

Well if you only played the first few missions, it's apparent why you didn't like it :P  The action picks up after the first few, which is when it really gets good ;)  The first few missions are just there to establish backstory.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SypheDMar on February 14, 2009, 10:53:55 pm
Well if you only played the first few missions, it's apparent why you didn't like it :P  The action picks up after the first few, which is when it really gets good ;)  The first few missions are just there to establish backstory.
I got up to the point of the other species (Vishnan?) battling the thing that looks like a Sathanas but bigger. Anyway, I didn't necessarily want to go off-topic.


Link to the Orion:

http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0005nf3.jpg
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 14, 2009, 11:43:29 pm
Well if you only played the first few missions, it's apparent why you didn't like it :P  The action picks up after the first few, which is when it really gets good ;)  The first few missions are just there to establish backstory.
I got up to the point of the other species (Vishnan?) battling the thing that looks like a Sathanas but bigger. Anyway, I didn't necessarily want to go off-topic.


Link to the Orion:

http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen0005nf3.jpg

Uh, that's like the second to last mission, lol.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 15, 2009, 09:24:51 am
(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5880/gtdoriongo5.png) (http://imageshack.us)

Updated: I've killed off about 9000-10000 polygons and started to divide the finer details into sections. But what about the wreckage, how do I approach that part of the model?   :nervous:

As for the engines, I made them as they are because I found the original design very boring and unconvincing, so I tried to do something different which was still somewhat true to the original concept.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Rodo on February 15, 2009, 09:36:01 am
well I like your engine desing so much better than the one we have now, the only problem with the one you've made will be the engine glow intersecting the hull, with your desing it will become insanely obvious.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: peterv on February 15, 2009, 11:13:18 am
...what about the wreckage, how do I approach that part of the model?   :nervous:


There are different approaches. Mine, is to imagine how the debris would be if the ship was exploded from the inside (smaller pieces for the center, more crumpied shapes for inner parts off the periphery).
However you will get the idea(s) by using this tool :
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/twisted-infinities-va/modviw32_high_limits.zip
Among other things, it shows all the Lods, including the debris.

Also i suggest you to read this :
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,37158.0.html
(provided that you'll ignore the "this is a game not an art show" part.  :lol:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 15, 2009, 12:13:08 pm
DO FREAKING WANT!!!
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 15, 2009, 02:47:05 pm
But what about the wreckage, how do I approach that part of the model?   :nervous:

Don't touch it. The model wants to be textured before you make debris.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Bobboau on February 16, 2009, 01:43:24 am
yeah, you approach that by having a finished main hull first, then you cut it into chunks. but it needs to be textured first.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 17, 2009, 04:24:54 pm
One suggestion, take into account the position of the docking point. It's on the bottom of the front thing, where the upper block sticks out.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Flaser on February 18, 2009, 07:29:50 am
(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/5880/gtdoriongo5.png) (http://imageshack.us)

Updated: I've killed off about 9000-10000 polygons and started to divide the finer details into sections. But what about the wreckage, how do I approach that part of the model?   :nervous:

As for the engines, I made them as they are because I found the original design very boring and unconvincing, so I tried to do something different which was still somewhat true to the original concept.

I think the engine just feels a tad "small" now. If you could scale them up - by moving the whole block toward the bow - then the sense of "balance" would be restored. The Orions have huge engines. It's that hugeness that still struggles to move a 2 km long tower of battle steel is what made the ship so "immense" for me.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hades on February 18, 2009, 08:03:36 pm
Hmm, I don't remember that middle main turret being there (One on the top).
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 18, 2009, 09:32:46 pm
It isn't there on the normal Orion.
The Orion has 3 on the top and 2 on the bottom.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on February 19, 2009, 03:05:35 am
Which reminds me, it might be a good thing to change the big triple-barreled turret under the nose. It did fine in FS1, but it's a beam turret in FS2. IMHO, beam turrets shouldn't look like naval artillery guns.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 06:30:26 am
Which reminds me, it might be a good thing to change the big triple-barreled turret under the nose. It did fine in FS1, but it's a beam turret in FS2. IMHO, beam turrets shouldn't look like naval artillery guns.
Agreed.


And please don't add extra turrets. I hate upgunned 'HTL-izations'.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Dilmah G on February 19, 2009, 06:55:06 am
Which reminds me, it might be a good thing to change the big triple-barreled turret under the nose. It did fine in FS1, but it's a beam turret in FS2. IMHO, beam turrets shouldn't look like naval artillery guns.
Agreed.


And please don't add extra turrets. I hate upgunned 'HTL-izations'.

Mmm, I suppose, especially when it fixes the Achilles heel of a specific ship so it can no longer be exploited...eg if someone added Flak turrets to the front of a deimos I would totally start a flamewar.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: kalnaren on February 19, 2009, 08:54:00 am
Which reminds me, it might be a good thing to change the big triple-barreled turret under the nose. It did fine in FS1, but it's a beam turret in FS2. IMHO, beam turrets shouldn't look like naval artillery guns.
Agreed.


And please don't add extra turrets. I hate upgunned 'HTL-izations'.
I think upgunning a ship is fine, so long as it can be completely explained why said change was made. I always thought the destroyers in FS2 (and expecially FS1) were undergunned, but hey that's just me.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 19, 2009, 09:04:17 am
Any ship bearing additional turrets shall be vetoed.  Or at least the additional turrets deleted before it is added to the mediavps.  Basically you aren't allowed to change the balancing of the main FS campaign.  Also, that turret under the nose bears flak often enough to justify it being left alone.  IIRC there was alredy a discussion about something like that.  If you want to create upgunned or modified versions, that's fine. but the one that goes in the mediavps must be true to the original.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 19, 2009, 09:21:07 am
I think upgunning a ship is fine, so long as it can be completely explained why said change was made. I always thought the destroyers in FS2 (and expecially FS1) were undergunned, but hey that's just me.
100% agree, consequently my current weapon table mods help to compensate that though with immense fire rates and velocities.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 19, 2009, 10:38:00 am
Which reminds me, it might be a good thing to change the big triple-barreled turret under the nose. It did fine in FS1, but it's a beam turret in FS2. IMHO, beam turrets shouldn't look like naval artillery guns.

I'm with Blowfish--that turret definitely needs to be in the same style as the old ones for the MVPs, but an alternate model with only that one turret modified might be a nice user mod.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on February 19, 2009, 11:26:39 am
That turret definitely needs to be in the same style as the old ones for the MVPs.
Isn't it possible to fix it in the next release and add this model only then?

Don't get me wrong, I do like the triple-barreled artillery guns, but it's just ridiculous as a beam turret.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 19, 2009, 11:32:09 am
Well I didn't add the Alternate label in the topic title for nothing  :blah:

I've always felt that FS capital ships were massively under-armed compared to their respected size and just thought that if any really wanted to "improve" the game they would also be dealing with this issue. The Shivans already got the most powerful weapons in the game and their current firepower would still out preform up-armed GTVA ships. But who am I to propose this...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 19, 2009, 11:37:12 am
Which reminds me, it might be a good thing to change the big triple-barreled turret under the nose. It did fine in FS1, but it's a beam turret in FS2. IMHO, beam turrets shouldn't look like naval artillery guns.

I'm with Blowfish--that turret definitely needs to be in the same style as the old ones for the MVPs, but an alternate model with only that one turret modified might be a nice user mod.

I'm with Blowfish and galemp on this one...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 19, 2009, 12:51:31 pm
Well I didn't add the Alternate label in the topic title for nothing  :blah:

I've always felt that FS capital ships were massively under-armed compared to their respected size and just thought that if any really wanted to "improve" the game they would also be dealing with this issue. The Shivans already got the most powerful weapons in the game and their current firepower would still out preform up-armed GTVA ships. But who am I to propose this...
I still say keep going with it. :D
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 12:55:03 pm
I still say this should be in the MVPs.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mobius on February 19, 2009, 01:06:27 pm
With so many differences? I'm afraid it shouldn't.

It'd break particular missions with ships or spacecraft placed in close proximity.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: ARSPR on February 19, 2009, 02:42:13 pm
Well I didn't add the Alternate label in the topic title for nothing  :blah:

I've always felt that FS capital ships were massively under-armed compared to their respected size and just thought that if any really wanted to "improve" the game they would also be dealing with this issue. The Shivans already got the most powerful weapons in the game and their current firepower would still out preform up-armed GTVA ships. But who am I to propose this...

Of course, you can make as many Orion mk II ships as you want. But much of your effort would be wasted if you don't provide a canon Orion... Your model will be only used in very few new campaigns or mods. It won't be included as a standardized replacement for retail Orion.

I suppose providing two models, (canon and improved), won't add too much work and would be much more worthy.

But, in any case, it's your free fan work. Whatever you chose is absolutely fine.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 02:47:31 pm
Actual canon ship upgrades are much more appreciated than random mods.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 19, 2009, 03:49:25 pm
Heh, so this is essentially TrashMan's Orion Reborn.
Had the same discussion about it.

At any rate, leave the extra turrets if you want. It's a ten second job to cut them out in PCS2 if it does make it in to the MediaVPs, so people should quit complaining.
Adding turrets isn't always that easy.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mobius on February 19, 2009, 04:27:50 pm
What do you mean by "cut them out in PCS2"? Leave the turret models and remove all connections to the main mesh? That'd not be a wise move, because the immobile turrets would still be viewable ingame.

(or maybe it's possible to modify the mesh in PCS2, effectively removing subobjects?)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 04:29:36 pm
What do you mean by "cut them out in PCS2"? Leave the turret models and remove all connections to the main mesh? That'd not be a wise move, because the immobile turrets would still be viewable ingame.

(or maybe it's possible to modify the mesh in PCS2, effectively removing subobjects?)

Yeah I don't understand it either. :confused:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: ShadowGorrath on February 19, 2009, 04:38:01 pm
You can remove turrets with their subobjects.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 04:39:53 pm
You can remove turrets with their subobjects.
That is very cool.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mobius on February 19, 2009, 04:42:14 pm
It'd be nice to add turrets in PCS2... ;)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 04:43:10 pm
It'd be nice to add turrets in PCS2... ;)
I believe you can do that too...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mobius on February 19, 2009, 04:46:52 pm
Really? Has anyone ever tried to do it?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 04:47:44 pm
Really? Has anyone ever tried to do it?
I dunno, but I've heard from unreliable (*COUGH*ShadowGorrath*COUGH*) sources that it's possible.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: ShadowGorrath on February 19, 2009, 04:51:38 pm
Yes, entirely possible. I'm surprised you didn't know. . .
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 19, 2009, 04:55:47 pm
Yes, entirely possible. I'm surprised you didn't know. . .
I'm surprised I remembered.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 19, 2009, 05:05:25 pm
Actual canon ship upgrades are much more appreciated than random mods.
Blue Planet's more appreciated than Canon ship upgrades. :P
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 19, 2009, 05:56:10 pm
Really? Has anyone ever tried to do it?
Yes. The extra turrets on the Lucifer, the Kismat, and the Orion in ToD are added in through PCS2.
I don't know how to use modelling programs for anything other than file type conversions.

However, adding turrets occasionally hands you a nasty "Array Out of Bounds" error.
Deleting subobjects never does that.

But let's get back on topic.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 19, 2009, 06:35:31 pm
Actual canon ship upgrades are much more appreciated than random mods.
Blue Planet's more appreciated than Canon ship upgrades. :P

To you, maybe.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 19, 2009, 07:00:57 pm
Not really, new models are new models, I like seeing whatever pops up.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 21, 2009, 05:24:44 pm
Well, seems like this ship is pretty much a no-go for this project, so I hope these new turrets are more suitable.

(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5725/gtdorion.png) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8507/gtdorion2.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Jadehawk on February 21, 2009, 05:50:22 pm
If you ask me, I think you did a great job on your turrets. Hell the whole ship! Don't stop, keep going and it's only gonna get better. :)

Maybe you could add two small half circle or dome object on the turret sides that will do for the manual range finder. I have seen ships that have them and they are used as a backup when the main and auxiliary targeting systems are down. Each turret should be able to target accurately using a manual system, just not as fast as electronic systems.

Just my opinion. :)

Good luck!
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Rodo on February 21, 2009, 05:54:07 pm
your model is nice spectre, don't give up as this could be used on other special mods you know.

but if you are thinking about making an HTL model for the upgrade project, there's a lot of other ships that require the service... mostly shivan and vasudan tipe.

check the most loved ships thread here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,57778.0.html)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 21, 2009, 05:57:43 pm
The old Orion HTL (Bobbaou's) looked good, but wasn't true enough to the original IMO. That's why I welcome this new effort.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 21, 2009, 06:30:07 pm
Yeah, I think this ship is far from no-go, I'd love to see this finished.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 21, 2009, 08:09:09 pm
Since its this far along, might as well finish it.
I would be more of a waste not to.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 21, 2009, 10:16:46 pm
What do you mean, 'no-go'? It's great. It just needs the right turrets in the right places if it's going into the Media VPs, that's all.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 22, 2009, 03:47:19 am
Nerfed the ship. The up-side here is that I've freed up a lot of polygons.

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2976/gtdorionv2.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8507/gtdorion2.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1008/gtdorion3.png) (http://imageshack.us)



Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Dilmah G on February 22, 2009, 03:57:44 am
Still 'lookin good  :pimp:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 22, 2009, 06:51:22 am
Beautiful.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: kalnaren on February 22, 2009, 11:43:01 am
That is a seriously awesome looking Orion. I'd use it in my mods. Particularily in the one I'm working on now there is actually a varient of the Orion that this would fill beautifully.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 23, 2009, 02:35:27 am
Thanks, but heads up for all;

I am not really satisfied with the current model and design I will be doing some major redesigning of the ship as the basic models was made years ago, back when my modelling skills were less capable. I will try to use the polygons more effectively, and thus save more than I can with the current model. I have already made the front "bridge" section and will continue work on it throughout this week. Expect an update due Friday, or sooner...

Cheers.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 23, 2009, 02:56:46 am
WAIT. Post the model as it is right now. Then do your revision.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Zacam on February 23, 2009, 03:05:37 am
At the end of any day, the ONE and the ONLY thing I care about in regards to ANY Orion is:

The Nameplate.

So long as it can be a standard  typical issue nameplate file like any other ship and displays in the spot it is supposed to (and doesn't leave a huge gaping hole in the ship when it is missing), I don't care who made it. Or what they made it out of. Or in.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 23, 2009, 03:56:30 am
The current model can be found in the SketchUp 3D Warehouse. A bit older though...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 23, 2009, 08:07:48 am
Thanks, but heads up for all;

I am not really satisfied with the current model and design I will be doing some major redesigning of the ship as the basic models was made years ago, back when my modelling skills were less capable. I will try to use the polygons more effectively, and thus save more than I can with the current model. I have already made the front "bridge" section and will continue work on it throughout this week. Expect an update due Friday, or sooner...

Cheers.
That's unfortunate, I think the latest screens you posted look perfect.
But if you can pull it off and make it look even better than everyone says it is, I'll be amazed. :D
Good luck then. :)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: IceFire on February 23, 2009, 05:46:59 pm
Well, seems like this ship is pretty much a no-go for this project, so I hope these new turrets are more suitable.
I wouldn't say that.  I think there is definitely room for this model...the HT&L Orion I believe was one of the first ships that was converted to a higher detail standard.  I doubt anyone would complain if further refinement were possible.  I certainly hope nobody would be offended.

Actually what I wouldn't mind seeing is a slightly different version for FreeSpace 2 that incorporated the same weapon setup but with FS2 beam emitters instead of the old style turrets used in FS1.  Just a thought off the top of my head.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 23, 2009, 06:02:04 pm
Actually what I wouldn't mind seeing is a slightly different version for FreeSpace 2 that incorporated the same weapon setup but with FS2 beam emitters instead of the old style turrets used in FS1.  Just a thought off the top of my head.
I highly support this :nod:
Since FSPort has its own MediaVps now, keeping FS1 compatibility for how the turrets look isn't necessary.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Rodo on February 23, 2009, 06:30:09 pm
I highly support this :nod:
Since FSPort has its own MediaVps now, keeping FS1 compatibility for how the turrets look isn't necessary.

besides they don't even use the HTL model since those do not have the nameplates added IIRC.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 23, 2009, 06:34:48 pm
The current HTL Orion certainly does have nameplates. The FSPort mediavps use a ships.tbl-level texture replacement that only works on certain branches (XT and maybe HEAD, I think).
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SypheDMar on February 23, 2009, 06:52:22 pm
I don't mind if the Orion's remodeled. As long as its kept more to the original. I liked this one very much, anyway.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: StarSlayer on February 23, 2009, 06:53:07 pm
Wouldn't mind seeing this Orion, or whichever alteration it ends up as in Auriga skins :D
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 23, 2009, 07:17:57 pm
Wouldn't mind seeing this Orion, or whichever alteration it ends up as in Auriga skins :D
Mental orgasm.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 24, 2009, 07:17:19 am
Progress with the new Orion:

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7954/gtd.png) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4571/gtd2.png) (http://imageshack.us)

So far the hull is a tiny bit too small (1800m) so I'm going to scale it up once I've finished the rear section.

I was thinking about having some variation in the design of each of the important Orions (Galatea and Bastion), just like each Nimitz looks a tiny bit different from each other. I believe it would be more visually appealing.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: TrashMan on February 24, 2009, 07:50:47 am
Actually what I wouldn't mind seeing is a slightly different version for FreeSpace 2 that incorporated the same weapon setup but with FS2 beam emitters instead of the old style turrets used in FS1.  Just a thought off the top of my head.

Didn't I do that allready?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Dilmah G on February 24, 2009, 08:08:06 am
@Spectre87

If you're willing that's okay, but it'd sure as hell be good. Could be troublesome replacing all the missions with their respective Orions though.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 24, 2009, 08:10:29 am
The original FS2 setup requires 4 Huge Terran turrets IIRC...  I wouldn't advocate against completely replacing them with BFGreens (+ emitter models), but that would require some extensive balancing of the missions in which the Orion destroyer appears. Otherwise the Orion would just become too powerful. At any rate though I think the team should take the issue with the Hecate serious and make it the overall better ship compared to the Orion - As the background describes it to be!

@Spectre87

If you're willing that's okay, but it'd sure as hell be good. Could be troublesome replacing all the missions with their respective Orions though.

Well it's just an idea. If the Devs don't like it then it's okay.. Means less work for me and other people too...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 24, 2009, 11:17:36 am
As this one is so far it looks too much like Trashman's Orion but with less bumpiness.
I liked the completely radical design overhaul a lot more, but then it was also more complete so I'll wait still.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 24, 2009, 12:29:52 pm
As this one is so far it looks too much like Trashman's Orion but with less bumpiness.
I liked the completely radical design overhaul a lot more, but then it was also more complete so I'll wait still.

Well, I tried to base it on FS1's Orion...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 24, 2009, 04:00:56 pm
blargh, I don't like the split nose there (though it seems everyone uses it.) Can you go back to your old nose style?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: IceFire on February 24, 2009, 05:31:43 pm
Actually what I wouldn't mind seeing is a slightly different version for FreeSpace 2 that incorporated the same weapon setup but with FS2 beam emitters instead of the old style turrets used in FS1.  Just a thought off the top of my head.

Didn't I do that allready?
I don't know...did you? If so...cool!  Where? :D
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 24, 2009, 06:48:51 pm
Yeah, TrashMan's HTL Orion has three versions:
-FS1 with the standard looking turrets
-FS2 with beam turrets in the right places and
-Post-Capella with extra turrets
As does his Orion Mk. 2.
I think you can get them all at FSMods.

I was saying it would be cool to have this HTL Orion have these features too.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mongoose on February 24, 2009, 07:29:35 pm
The only problem one runs into with changing those three-barreled turrets into actual beam turrets is that it makes the Orion at least a bit more difficult to disarm.  It's easy to skim the hull and take out those huge individual turrets, but dealing with the recessed beam turrets usually requires one to come in at a steeper angle.  It may seem like a complete nitpick, but I can remember at least one mission in PI where a matter of seconds made all the difference in me getting an Orion disarmed in time to achieve a certain goal. :p
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 24, 2009, 07:40:53 pm
On TrashMan's Orion, the main beam turret is still multipart, just the three barrels are replaced with one large one.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 24, 2009, 08:10:18 pm
One big fat barrel that looks right farting out a big fat beam. :D
It's not harder to disarm.
The Beam turrets on the side, if anything, are easier to disarm because they are dishes instead of a small protrusion, though the Orion's turrets are easy enough to take out normally.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mongoose on February 24, 2009, 08:32:09 pm
Ah, okay.  Carry on, then. :D
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 25, 2009, 03:20:05 pm
blargh, I don't like the split nose there (though it seems everyone uses it.) Can you go back to your old nose style?
Yeah I agree. The whole split nose thing was ugly from the start. :doubt:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 26, 2009, 02:29:36 pm
Progress: Done away with the not-so-popular "split nose"

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7954/gtd.png) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 26, 2009, 02:54:51 pm
Err, nameplate?

Also, is it the right length?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 26, 2009, 02:56:17 pm
Seems to have less depth than the other models, as if several decks from the very top of the Orion was sliced off.
I do like the way the sensor suites looks.

I still don't see how you couldn't be satisfied with the first batch of model images.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 26, 2009, 03:03:25 pm
tbh it's pretty hard to get the dimensions completely straight when you're building in from the bottom up without having the original model at your side. I've based it on a picture of the FS1 Orion and tried to mix it with the flair of the FS2 Orion, but I agree that it could be a tiny bit taller, but this will require some extensive work around the sensor suit in order to make it look right - therefore it's not a priority atm.

Err, nameplate?

Also, is it the right length?

No quite.. at it stands it's 2020m long, but I'm still missing the engines so I figure it's close enough here once those are done.

As for the nameplate.. wat?...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 26, 2009, 03:08:38 pm
As it is there's no room for the nameplate to be in its original position.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 26, 2009, 03:10:19 pm
As it is there's no room for the nameplate to be in its original position.

I see the problem... Fixed... But what's the big deal here really, aren't we going to use new high-res textures instead of the originals?..

Btw is the main hull to be 1 unity or split into say.. 3 (thinking about the destruction part of the ship here)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 26, 2009, 03:13:15 pm
Some campaigns still add nameplates to their ships, the GTD Warlock on Warzone and other respected capital ships.
One unit as in an area that recieves a texture? The other Orions have like eight if that's what you're talking about.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 26, 2009, 07:17:57 pm
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7954/gtd.png) (http://imageshack.us)

I think the massing has departed too far from the original. It definitely doesn't have the same proportions in profile. :(

And you really don't have the original low-poly model to work from? Why not?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 26, 2009, 07:24:57 pm
Since you say you're making this more like the FS1 Orion, have you ever had the idea of making your other Orion model a post-Capella variant, like a new Block of Orion?
That would be pretty cool I think, an Orion Block 10, 20, and 30.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 26, 2009, 07:55:16 pm
Here ...

Can't guarantee anything about the scale though.  But that can be dealt with later.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 26, 2009, 11:58:41 pm
Very off scale, but it's pretty nice to have as a base as the original textures are there... Any chance you could provide the FS2 version?  ;7
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on February 27, 2009, 12:00:27 am
Eh? The models are identical.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 27, 2009, 12:14:39 am
This IS the FS2 retail model.  If you want the mediavp model, I could provide that, though not with textures...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 27, 2009, 12:18:56 am
Eh? The models are identical.

Hmm.. I'm pretty certain that the FS2 Orion model was a tad more detailed... Anyhow that would be awesome, blowfish... Because I really want to base it off the FS2 version...

(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Orion320x240.jpg)
FS2 version.. Not identical.. imo...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mongoose on February 27, 2009, 12:34:43 am
That's the hi-poly MediaVP Orion, which is no more the retail FS2 Orion than the model that you're making is.  FS2 used the exact same models for the ship classes that carried over from FS1.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on February 27, 2009, 12:36:09 am
The FS2 version you speak of is the mediavp version.  Be careful with your terminology, because FS2 was originally distributed (well, and still is :P) with the model I posted.  All of the high poly models you see are creations of the community and have never been officially distributed with FS2.  Note that the proportions between the retail model and the mediavp model are pretty close.  Anyway, here it is :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on February 27, 2009, 09:12:03 am
News to me  ;) But thanks a million anyway  :yes:

I think I'll be able to cook up something really nice out of this, but I'll be boozed over the weekend, so don't expect any updates soon.

Btw: How many polygons has MediaVP version used?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on February 27, 2009, 02:55:27 pm
News to me  ;) But thanks a million anyway  :yes:

I think I'll be able to cook up something really nice out of this, but I'll be boozed over the weekend, so don't expect any updates soon.

Btw: How many polygons has MediaVP version used?

Not enough.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 27, 2009, 03:00:30 pm
Btw: How many polygons has MediaVP version used?
Not enough.
IMO Bobbaou's Orion had more than enough polies, it just wasn't close enough to the original.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Raven2001 on February 27, 2009, 03:44:36 pm
but on the other hand looked way cooler :P
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mobius on February 27, 2009, 03:47:12 pm
N doubt about it. The current Orion is the logical development of the old one, IMO. :nod:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Goober5000 on February 27, 2009, 08:44:46 pm
but on the other hand looked way cooler :P
No, it looked uglier. :p  It had a lot of boxes and greebles, but they didn't go with the original model.  They seemed to be added for the sake of having more polies.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 28, 2009, 04:29:42 am
No, it looked uglier. :p  It had a lot of boxes and greebles, but they didn't go with the original model.  They seemed to be added for the sake of having more polies.
QFT
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hades on February 28, 2009, 01:08:59 pm
I rather liked the first one you did. The second one is "meh".
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on February 28, 2009, 01:13:57 pm
I rather liked the first one you did. The second one is "meh".
Agreed there as well.

The first one is a lot better, no offense. The second one is out of proportion. Doesn't look like Orion I know and love.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on February 28, 2009, 01:39:33 pm
I've said the same thing also, the advanced appearance of the first one is excellent, I'd rather see something more radical than another redone "old" Orion.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on February 28, 2009, 02:04:15 pm
Yes, please just use the first one. No sense making another one that looks just like the ones we already have.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 01, 2009, 03:55:35 am
Well, since proportions became an issue for second attempt I might as well not use the first one as it's proportions is equally off. At the moment I'm making a fusion of the HTL and retail version.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 01, 2009, 07:15:05 am
progress:

Comparison to original
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7954/gtd.png) (http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtd.png)

to the HTL
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7954/gtd.png) (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtd.png)

btw, anywhere I can get a Freespace font? Tried googling it, but didn't find anything useful.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Titan on March 01, 2009, 07:22:33 am
It... looks... like... the old one...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mobius on March 01, 2009, 08:02:47 am
btw, anywhere I can get a Freespace font? Tried googling it, but didn't find anything useful.

Which one? Stop(used in nameplates) or Bank Gothic Md BT (used in the interface)? The first one is DLable from the FreeSpace Port's site while the second should be a standard issue on all computers. :)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Raven2001 on March 01, 2009, 08:04:51 am
No, it looked uglier. :p  It had a lot of boxes and greebles, but they didn't go with the original model.  They seemed to be added for the sake of having more polies.

No, it looked more like a grungier capital ship, and as such cooler :P Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one :D
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on March 01, 2009, 08:31:01 am
No, it looked uglier. :p  It had a lot of boxes and greebles, but they didn't go with the original model.  They seemed to be added for the sake of having more polies.

No, it looked more like a grungier capital ship, and as such cooler :P Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one :D
I'm with Goober on this, it looks like a Lego cluster****. :P
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Rodo on March 01, 2009, 08:56:27 am
I need to say I liked better the first one, it seemed more "new" than this one.

You need to add some detail on the wall of the hangar bay side IMO.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 01, 2009, 09:09:35 am
I need to say I liked better the first one, it seemed more "new" than this one.

You need to add some detail on the wall of the hangar bay side IMO.

If this is to be used as a replacement for the original Orion then it needs to resemble it. My first attempt is a far cry and thus not suitable as such. Furthermore you do realize that the "progress:" means it's WIP, right?

I'll try to say this one more time: It's a Fusion between the Retail and HTL version!
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on March 01, 2009, 09:36:44 am
Still not digging that split nose..
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Rodo on March 01, 2009, 10:19:13 am
yeah alright but don't get mad.. I'm just saying I liked the other version better, no offence intended.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 01, 2009, 10:38:42 am
Final try (some detailing is still needed, but the overall shape is done)

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7954/gtd.png) (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtd.png)

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4571/gtd2.png) (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtd2.png)

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6395/gtd3.png) (http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtd3.png)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hades on March 01, 2009, 10:44:54 am
I still like the first one better.  :doubt:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on March 01, 2009, 11:47:41 am
I still like the first one better.  :doubt:

Same.
This one just looks too much like the one we already have, making it redundant to say the least.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on March 01, 2009, 11:54:32 am
I'll try to say this one more time: It's a Fusion between the Retail and HTL version!
What's the point in that?


Still liking the first one a whole lot more.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 01, 2009, 12:02:07 pm
Apart from the model being not well made (perhaps poor export?) I don't know... Some people didn't really like the HTL version for being too boxy and far from the original - which is why I tried to fuse the best of both. Interestingly enough no one likes this idea...

But doesn't matter, the old one is gone and I guess it's a plain no across the board so if a mod doesn't mind he may close this thread...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Snail on March 01, 2009, 12:03:35 pm
Can we please get the old one converted?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on March 01, 2009, 12:14:48 pm
The old one isn't gone. I have it. Need to redo the back though (Still has that weird old flat one)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on March 01, 2009, 01:50:54 pm
The old one please? That one was different, and there would certainly have been use in mods as an Orion Variant even if it didn't make it into the MVPs.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on March 01, 2009, 01:56:26 pm
Can we please get the old one converted?

You willing to UV and texture it?  Because there will be no POF until that is done...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Mongoose on March 01, 2009, 02:30:39 pm
I vote for screwing the first one and telling the man to keep doing what he's doing. :p
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Raven2001 on March 01, 2009, 02:32:02 pm
Interestingly enough no one likes this idea...

Well, the human being has a tendency of never being happy with what he is given :P
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: ARSPR on March 01, 2009, 02:38:19 pm
The old one isn't gone. I have it. Need to redo the back though (Still has that weird old flat one)
STOP guys, don't create another TBP-ish issue here...

If SPECTRE87 wants to kill his very first model, don't use it anymore please. If he allows the community to continue working over it, then you can do as you want. It's just a politeness issue.

@SPECTRE87: Nevertheless I also prefer your very first model. As I said in a previous post, I would just do the following thing:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: General Battuta on March 01, 2009, 02:40:32 pm
Right, SPECTRE, it sounds like we can use that old model just fine with a few turrets removed (to match the original Orion's turret loadout.)

Would that be acceptable?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 01, 2009, 03:17:26 pm
To be honest, after I've now been able to base a model on the original, I really loath my first attempt... I really can't see why people would prefer it over the original, HTL, or my third try...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SypheDMar on March 01, 2009, 03:53:35 pm
I like your third. It might not be as detailed as the one in the MediaVP, but if it's closer to the original, then surely it would be a more suitable replacement.  So I agree with Mongoose.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 01, 2009, 04:01:25 pm
Thanks. While it's not as "detailed" as the current HTL it is more effectively built (the model, that is), and more closely based on the original version, and it will properly eat up less memory too as a result... But it's up to the crew.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: FoxtrotTango on March 01, 2009, 04:22:28 pm
To be honest, after I've now been able to base a model on the original, I really loath my first attempt... I really can't see why people would prefer it over the original, HTL, or my third try...

Why do you despise your initial iteration? It turned out to be a board favorite and people like the look of it because it's not shackled to its predecessor. This makes it an independent redesign of the Orion model. There's a lot of potential inside of it, you just don't wish to recognize it because you'd prefer to stay inside the lines. That's fine with us, but don't torch the old model out of spite. Hand it to someone else to refine and restore, that this concept may not die out with your disinterest.

Who knows? It may end up being a worthy successor to the original in future campaigns. Let's not allow it to go to waste.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on March 01, 2009, 06:08:32 pm
The old one isn't gone. I have it. Need to redo the back though (Still has that weird old flat one)
STOP guys, don't create another TBP-ish issue here...

If SPECTRE87 wants to kill his very first model, don't use it anymore please. If he allows the community to continue working over it, then you can do as you want. It's just a politeness issue.

@SPECTRE87: Nevertheless I also prefer your very first model. As I said in a previous post, I would just do the following thing:
  • Keep it just as it was for an Orion Mk II model to be used in any new mod or campaign.
  • Make another copy modifying its turret array so it matches original FS1/FS2 model. This model would become "canon" in future MediaVPs releases. Remember that there were no complaints about your original design. Nearly everyone posted that it was great. The only comment you got was that it wasn't a canon Orion because of its turrets. This "small" issue does not allow using it as a standard hi-res version in FS2.

TBPish issue? This isn't a total conversion, It's a single model. If he wants to keep doing what he's doing, that's all fine and dandy, but most people seem to prefer the original. I'll just nix the extra turrets and convert it to 3ds for someone, and he can keep doing what he likes.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on March 01, 2009, 07:50:52 pm
Ok people, a few things:

1) Even if you don't personally like a model, you should NEVER simply dismiss it out of hand as I have seen in this thread (and other recent ones) several times. Unless you have built something of similar complexity you probably have no idea of the effort that gets put into these ships, and so you probably have no idea of how disrespectful or even hurtful your comments may be to the creator.

2) If you do have a gripe about a model, you are obviously free to voice your opinions, but do so via CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Stemming from point 1, there are few things I hate more than seeing someone posting a ship they've spent hours upon hours building, only for someone to reply with "I don't like it. :doubt:". Point out what works, what doesn't but whatever you say; do your best to say why, and do it all politely. Respect their work and they are far more likely to implement your suggestions.

3) ESPECIALLY just after the whole TBP debacle I would have thought people would be more cautious regarding the use of other peoples work and that person's wishes about that work. If you would like to continue work on a model that the creator has restarted work on, you ask permission. As I see it here, Spectre has restarted the model - demonstrating some very impressive modelling and high quality standards in the process I might add, only for some people to go 'Meh. We like the old one better so we're going to continue that one.' That does not at all sound like the spirit under which HLP was founded. Not to mention that you haven't seen the new one finished yet so no matter how it might turn out, even your opinion that the old one was better is a premature one.


So, with that I'd like to apologise to Spectre and Bobboau for the treatment of their work by some, and I hope you'll continue. I for one would love to see more. :)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on March 01, 2009, 10:29:13 pm
Ok people, a few things:

1) Even if you don't personally like a model, you should NEVER simply dismiss it out of hand as I have seen in this thread (and other recent ones) several times. Unless you have built something of similar complexity you probably have no idea of the effort that gets put into these ships, and so you probably have no idea of how disrespectful or even hurtful your comments may be to the creator.

2) If you do have a gripe about a model, you are obviously free to voice your opinions, but do so via CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Stemming from point 1, there are few things I hate more than seeing someone posting a ship they've spent hours upon hours building, only for someone to reply with "I don't like it. :doubt:". Point out what works, what doesn't but whatever you say; do your best to say why, and do it all politely. Respect their work and they are far more likely to implement your suggestions.

3) ESPECIALLY just after the whole TBP debacle I would have thought people would be more cautious regarding the use of other peoples work and that person's wishes about that work. If you would like to continue work on a model that the creator has restarted work on, you ask permission. As I see it here, Spectre has restarted the model - demonstrating some very impressive modelling and high quality standards in the process I might add, only for some people to go 'Meh. We like the old one better so we're going to continue that one.' That does not at all sound like the spirit under which HLP was founded. Not to mention that you haven't seen the new one finished yet so no matter how it might turn out, even your opinion that the old one was better is a premature one.


So, with that I'd like to apologise to Spectre and Bobboau for the treatment of their work by some, and I hope you'll continue. I for one would love to see more. :)

1) I was hoping not to reveal this yet, but, frak it: http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/?action=view&current=MysteryAndOrion.png

2) As far as I am concerned I have no problems with him continuing his current version of the model. While it may seem stupid to have four (five? six?) versions of one ship, people seemed to like the original, and with his consent I would like to see his first model make it into the game. If he wants to continue his second version, I know all too well how it feels, and he is free to do as he pleases.

3) You've no idea how many complaints I've gotten on that first ship I linked to you. I did not throw hours upon end into fifty thousand polygons for nothing (It's not even half way done, I don't know what do do with the mid section at all, and the back is going to have arms) But I'm drifting off topic here.

So, basically the point I'm trying to make is this; Let's all shut up and see what Spectre has to say about it. After all, it's his model.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on March 01, 2009, 10:51:52 pm
Spectre, I think the wish is that you hadn't even known about Bobboau's Orion. We would have liked to see a new interpretation of the source material, not a remake of a remake. We like new spirit and creativity.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 02, 2009, 12:00:42 am
The Drama...  :eek:

Anyhow I consider my first try a failure. (One that I've learned from!)
So if people want to use it in their mods then do so, but to be honest I cannot see how it actually could work as a replacement for Bobboau's version in this project. I've already stated why I went ahead remodeling the ship, and I'm surprised that no one likes the idea of compromising the best of Bobboau's Orion with the Retail version. Logically people should rejoice over it as they both get their wishes, but meh, humans are truly a silly creation.

Bobboau's Orion seems a lot like an post-Capella Orion to me, tbh...  (No offense, I like this version a lot, which is why I borrowed ideas from it)

Btw; here's an attachment of my current progress. Much easier to review a model in 3D than by pictures...
This is a Take It or Leave It deal. I do not have the stomach for another try, especially after all the trash thrown at my attempts  :ick:


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: FoxtrotTango on March 02, 2009, 12:13:06 am
Yes, one question, Spectre.

Are you even reading our posts anymore or have you just shut us out? There are a lot of arguments for and against your design and it seems that you haven't even taken consideration of any of it. I just want to be sure if we're getting through to you or not because if not, I certainly don't need to waste my time here.

I'm not offended by the fact that you choose to go with a more derivative model. Just by the fact that you apparently haven't been following anything that's been going on. In your own topic, no less.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 02, 2009, 12:20:31 am
"It's different, creative, etc" isn't exactly an useful sort of argument or feedback... I have been following my own thread, thank you. And all your answers can be found in my post above...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on March 02, 2009, 12:39:43 am
Is this what this had come to? :(

Maybe I should have spoken up sooner, instead of just posting models and responding to other peoples' off-topic posts, because I agree with SPECTRE87 in that the first attempt was not quite up-to-par, and while the second was way out of proportion, the current one is getting closer to what the HTL Orion should be.  And I don't know what everyone dislikes so much about Bobboau's ... sure, the greebling just looks like a bunch of random boxes in places, but some of the details were good.

I wish things hadn't ended this way, but oh well, what can you do? :sigh:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on March 02, 2009, 01:49:43 am
Btw; here's an attachment of my current progress. Much easier to review a model in 3D than by pictures...
This is a Take It or Leave It deal. I do not have the stomach for another try, especially after all the trash thrown at my attempts  :ick:
That's the kind of reaction I was worried was on the way and was trying to prevent with the previous post. :(

Looking at your model you've done an excellent job in my opinion, so don't be discouraged by the less helpful comments here. If you've definitely had enough of the Orion though, I and I'm certain many others would love to see you try your hand at other ships (preferably the not-yet-HTLed ones! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,57778.0.html)) in the FS fleet or having a go at your own designs. :)

I think the response was worse here than it usually is (and I've been here a looooong time) because many people hold the Orion as their favourite FS ship, meaning there are a lot of different opinions for what the HTL version *should* look like floating around. As such conflicts will inevitably arise I guess, but to my mind that doesn't excuse anything.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: ARSPR on March 02, 2009, 10:37:32 am
Yeap, I agree with VA about how easy opinion is but how hard work is.

As I've been one of the people saying I preferred the original one, (in my last post), when you had spent a lot of time re-working it again in order to make it looking more "canon", I just wanted to say sorry in case this comment added any kind of discouragement to your feelings.

Keep working in whichever version you feel like (or even don't work with it anymore if you are just fed up).

I just liked the very first one because while being an Orion it also seemed a fully new, different vision of it as Galemp said.

But as previously said, this post is just for saying SORRY.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 02, 2009, 03:15:50 pm
Just want to know if anybody has an skp.file of the Hecate and Deimos (HTL if possible) available?...
I'm trying to come up with a Post-Capella Destroyer design.


Anyhow.. Progress..

Added the additional hardpoint mounts in a standardized way...

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7954/gtd.png) (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtd.png)

Todo: Radar's and the smaller hardpoints + some finishing detailing (wouldn't mind some useful suggestions here!)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on March 02, 2009, 05:15:56 pm
I really love what you've done with the hanger bay and surrounding area, even if I did think the original nose was better.
I have the Hecate and Deimos, let me see if I can find them...
Edit: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?tj2k2mywzjz
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Galemp on March 02, 2009, 05:49:59 pm
How about some more fine greebles and detailing on the nooks and crannies? Look at VA's Hades, or Brandx0's Star Destroyer.

The other thing I would like to bring attention to is continuity of surfaces. I'd like you to imagine each surface and the surfaces it joins to and make sure they're in discrete, manifold chunks.

For instance, look at the retail Orion. There's a 'foundation' with the darker blue, techy texture, and then there are large armored panel chunks in the light blue that wrap around it. The lights trim the edges and make the transition, while the yellow lights and girders generally appear as insets in the hull.

Compare that to the texturing I did on the current high-poly Orion model. The model had more 'chunks' than the original so I used an Arcadia texture and a blue version of the Triton texture to map those chunks. What you can do at this stage of the design is use the paint bucket tool and see if you can paint each 'chunk' in different colors without surfaces overlapping.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: StarSlayer on March 02, 2009, 07:26:58 pm
Looking good Spectre
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on March 02, 2009, 08:02:36 pm
Nice.  I might make that window thing above the hangar, as right now it looks a little too square (think golden ratio == visually appealing) (see attachment).  Also, I noticed you rounded out a lot things especially toward the rear, like on Bobboau's Orion.  I'm not entirely sure about it, but I'm wondering what it would look like if the blocky sections were kept back there...

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 03, 2009, 12:07:22 am
I really love what you've done with the hanger bay and surrounding area, even if I did think the original nose was better.
I have the Hecate and Deimos, let me see if I can find them...
Edit: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?tj2k2mywzjz

Thanks, but it seems like my winrar doesn't like those files.. can't extract them for some reason  :confused:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on March 03, 2009, 12:28:55 am
Hope you have 7zip  :nervous:

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on March 03, 2009, 01:12:41 am
I really love what you've done with the hanger bay and surrounding area, even if I did think the original nose was better.
I have the Hecate and Deimos, let me see if I can find them...
Edit: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?tj2k2mywzjz

Thanks, but it seems like my winrar doesn't like those files.. can't extract them for some reason  :confused:
Er.. what? I'll check for myself...
Edit: Yeah man, you better reinstall Winrar...  :wtf:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: castor on March 03, 2009, 01:07:35 pm
I like this a lot! You tamed the edgy while keeping the blocky (so its still a real Orion).
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on March 03, 2009, 04:21:02 pm
Now this may be a bit off topic, but I don't really know where else to post it...

Anyhow this is a quick profile draft of what I have in mind for the post-capella terran destoryer.

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7391/capella.png) (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capella.png)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Jadehawk on March 03, 2009, 04:39:48 pm
Got other profiles of this? Looks promising to me :)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: StarSlayer on March 03, 2009, 04:40:59 pm
Looks good, seems to be a good synergy of elements of the Deimos and Collie.  Certainly looks like it would be an effective ship without the coverage issues of odd shape like the Hecate
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: General Battuta on March 03, 2009, 04:53:25 pm
The Shivans should build a ship with a massive beam cannon (of the type Alpha 1 always has to go disarm) deep in a hull crevice, surrounded by flak guns.

You could call it the SD Venus Flytrap.

I like the look of the ship. It's very reminiscent of the Sulaco from Aliens.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Titan on March 03, 2009, 05:31:48 pm
The Shivans should build a ship with a massive beam cannon (of the type Alpha 1 always has to go disarm) deep in a hull crevice, surrounded by flak guns.

You could call it the SD Venus Flytrap.

I like the look of the ship. It's very reminiscent of the Sulaco from Aliens.

Screw that, go for SAAA

And spectre, if you have time, could i request a blockier version of the deimos? The HTL one makes me strangely uncomfortable when it's next to a FS1-gen ship...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Hellstryker on March 03, 2009, 05:48:38 pm
Now this may be a bit off topic, but I don't really know where else to post it...

Anyhow this is a quick profile draft of what I have in mind for the post-capella terran destoryer.

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7391/capella.png) (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capella.png)
Mind making a draft of the front/top, too? Looks very promising.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Water on March 03, 2009, 05:50:43 pm
Anyhow this is a quick profile draft of what I have in mind for the post-capella terran destoryer.
You can probably be a bit more adventurous with the profile.
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee67/waternz/shapes.jpg)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Titan on March 03, 2009, 05:57:14 pm
 :eek2:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Droid803 on March 03, 2009, 06:01:33 pm
I just realized how similar the Hecate, Deimos, and Colly are from the side :eek2:
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Goober5000 on March 03, 2009, 09:28:03 pm
I don't really like the rear port styling on the Orion.  It makes it look kinda like a sidearm, not a hangar bay.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: IceFire on March 07, 2009, 11:17:07 pm
Now this may be a bit off topic, but I don't really know where else to post it...

Anyhow this is a quick profile draft of what I have in mind for the post-capella terran destoryer.

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7391/capella.png) (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capella.png)
Looks very authentic.  Looking forward to seeing how this turns out!
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: General Battuta on March 07, 2009, 11:21:05 pm
Now this may be a bit off topic, but I don't really know where else to post it...

Anyhow this is a quick profile draft of what I have in mind for the post-capella terran destoryer.

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7391/capella.png) (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capella.png)
Looks very authentic.  Looking forward to seeing how this turns out!

Go check out the GTD Capella thread; the model's practically done.

Looks like a gun. Many ships seem to in Freespace.

We can safely blame the Sulaco.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on March 12, 2009, 08:00:00 am
Been a while since I could look here, but I finally admit that this Orion is turning out really well, while Orion model # 1 would make the perfect next-Generation Orion, this one is perfect as the replacement for the current Orion.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: LuaPineapple on March 27, 2009, 06:16:02 pm
The problem with sketchup is that it's not a real modeling program, it wastes a whole bunch of polys and makes inefficient game assets. (At least, last time I had a look at it.)
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on March 27, 2009, 06:32:06 pm
The problem with sketchup is that it's not a real modeling program, it wastes a whole bunch of polys and makes inefficient game assets. (At least, last time I had a look at it.)

:mad: Okay, first of all, SketchUp, by itself, cannot either a) waste polygons or b) make inefficient models (though I admit its triangulation has issues...).  It's really the modeler's responsibility to make sure everything is in order, which most experienced SketchUp users should know how to do.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Aardwolf on March 29, 2009, 11:09:38 am
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7391/capella.png) (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capella.png)

I just noticed, the thing under the main hull looks oddly similar to the gun assembly on my (unfinished) "1600m Battlecarrier" model.

Not bad, tho.
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: blowfish on March 29, 2009, 11:12:21 am
Reminds me more of the Moscow...
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Commander Zane on March 29, 2009, 11:27:24 am
So about that mess of models you have on your list... ;7
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: SPECTRE87 on April 22, 2009, 08:38:55 am
Moderator is free to close this thread. There will be no more posting from me here anyway...

Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: General Battuta on April 22, 2009, 08:48:04 am
Whoa! Why? What happened?
Title: Re: GTVA Orion - Alternate High-polygon Version
Post by: Dilmah G on April 22, 2009, 11:15:48 am
That's what I was thinking...