Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace & FreeSpace Open Support => Topic started by: Rapsodius on March 14, 2009, 07:36:42 am

Title: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on March 14, 2009, 07:36:42 am: First of all, Hello to all the people, I've been reading your forum for a long while and I recently decided to register, I was looking for a solution to my problem, I played both retail versions of FS, and I wanted to get the FSOpen version, after hours of downloading, I get my hands on fsopen, mediavps, ST:R, and willing to play.
After all the configuration process, and after clicking Run, a msgbox appeared saying that I needed OpenGL version 1.2 to play and the current version I had was 1.1....

System specs (please don't laugh at me... ;))

Intel Pentium III 605 MHz (L2 Cache 256 KB)
System RAM: 192 MB
OS: Windows 2000 (here I play with OGL) and Windows XP SP3 (don't think this matters)
Video card: Intel 82810 32 MB OnBoard (doesn't use system ram to get vram)

I have read the FAQ already about my case and it stated I should use 3.6.9 with D3D instead, the problem is that the game crashed to desktop without errors on D3D when beam cannons where firing and when big ships where destroyed.
(Retail FS2 runned at top speed in 1024x768 and details at the maximum & no crashes)

Intel is no longer supporting my vid card so in XP I don't have Hardware accelerated Ogl on XP but yes on 2000.

Well, what i'm asking for is if there is a way to avoid OpenGL 1.2 and to use instead 1.1, I'm not asking for the advanced graphics effects that may come with 1.2 just want to play this game!

Using the latest nightly build (02/03/2009) with MediaVPS v3.6.10
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on March 14, 2009, 09:20:55 am: You honestly might have some trouble running FSO with those system specs. Can you get plain ol' vanilla retail working?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on March 14, 2009, 09:47:00 am: Well i can play fs2 retail without problems if that's what are you referring to... dont' know what is "vanilla retail"...

I am well not planing to use mv_advanced as it said there was for high end pcs

I don' t know what problems are you referring to, if i am able to play this on opengl 1.1... I certainly know OpenGL is a lot faster than D3D... and even without the enhanced graphics the mediavps offer, i should be able to play it without any other thing than.... well FSO itself
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: dragonsniper on March 14, 2009, 10:04:54 am: FSO's requirements are way higher than the retails system specs. I have a 2.13Ghz, 2GB ram, and a newer (late 2007) Nvidia graphics card, and at times my computer still chokes with the newest mediavps. Can you not get a newer OpenGL for your graphics card? Because FSO plainly won't work for me if I don't have OpenGL.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: TopAce on March 14, 2009, 10:11:07 am: Quote from: Rapsodius on March 14, 2009, 09:47:00 am
Well i can play fs2 retail without problems if that's what are you referring to... dont' know what is "vanilla retail"...

Vanilla retail is just another way of saying retail, so the original FS2 with no SCP enhancements.

As for your thread, I suggest you get rid of the MediaVPs. Like dragonsniper said, your computer is simply too old for the MediaVPs.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on March 14, 2009, 10:12:08 am: Quote from: dragonsniper on March 14, 2009, 10:04:54 am
FSO's requirements are way higher than the retails system specs. I have a 2.13Ghz, 2GB ram, and a newer (late 2007) Nvidia graphics card, and at times my computer still chokes with the newest mediavps.

I said previously I'm not that interested on mvps just on the game if I can get it to play... Playing 3.6.9 in D3D mode gives me some crashes as I explained when I started the topic, but general gameplay is as smooth as retail.

Quote from: dragonsniper on March 14, 2009, 10:04:54 am
Can you not get a newer OpenGL for your graphics card? Because FSO plainly won't work for me if I don't have OpenGL.

I can't... check out this (http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-003952.htm) (Intel Support for my vid card)

EDIT:

Quote from: TopAce on March 14, 2009, 10:11:07 am
As for your thread, I suggest you get rid of the MediaVPs. Like dragonsniper said, your computer is simply too old for the MediaVPs.

Ok ok, that's all with MediaVPs, leave them alone, I'm asking for a way to use OpenGL 1.1 only and without it asking for 1.2. Intel won't do any more drivers for my card, and I have already the latest ones for them
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on March 25, 2009, 08:50:19 pm: Yeah then that Intel chipset is simply to old to run FSO in OpenGL, the mediavps won't have any effect on that one way or the other. 3.6.9 is the last version to support any D3D at all, and will lose FS2NetD multiplayer support more than likely shortly after 3.6.10 is finalized. You best bet to have 3.6.10 running at all is to get some other video card in there. Any PCI or old AGP card you can stick in there with 32MB of RAM or more would probably work fine.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Zacam on March 26, 2009, 12:40:21 am: Or, if someone is creative enough to grab the OpenGL 1.2 information from some other Intel driver package and put it's dll into the freespace install dir....

Might not help, but it's worth a shot.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on March 28, 2009, 09:56:38 am: Quote from: chief1983 on March 25, 2009, 08:50:19 pm
Yeah then that Intel chipset is simply to old to run FSO in OpenGL, the mediavps won't have any effect on that one way or the other. 3.6.9 is the last version to support any D3D at all, and will lose FS2NetD multiplayer support more than likely shortly after 3.6.10 is finalized. You best bet to have 3.6.10 running at all is to get some other video card in there. Any PCI or old AGP card you can stick in there with 32MB of RAM or more would probably work fine.

I'm positive I have tested 3.6.9 with D3D and it loaded without problems but it crashed on missions with intensive use of beam weapons and big explosions (without the mediavps, only No-modded fsopen), maybe because d3d bugs were not solved because support for it was going to be discontinued anyway

Quote from: Zacam on March 26, 2009, 12:40:21 am
Or, if someone is creative enough to grab the OpenGL 1.2 information from some other Intel driver package and put it's dll into the freespace install dir....

Might not help, but it's worth a shot.

Er.... I don't think that would do any good... You're talking about fooling the machine about it having hardware support for OpenGL 1.2 without it actually having that...

Using normal non-modified Intel drivers I get some errors when trying to load 3.6.10:
- some thingie about ogl 1.2 and 1.1
- GL extension missing
"Press Ok to break into debugger, cancel exits"

I press Ok on both (without actually having a debugger installed), then the error messages disappear.
Finally the following happens:
- Screen resolution is changed
- Background music of FS2 can be heared, BUT fsopen stays invisible (ie:nothing appears on screen)

A solution for this would be to rip a build of fsopen from OpenGL 1.2 to 1.1, if you understand me, however my lack of knowing about C/C++ and the source code of fsopen make me discard that idea, unless one of the programmers can make that.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on March 28, 2009, 02:56:54 pm: It's probably not possible to reduce the OpenGL requirement any further, especially considering all the changes that have been tacked on to support _newer_ OpenGL features while still maintaining 1.2 support. Only a few coders would be able to stand a chance at it anyway, and they're busy with other things at the moment. I get that it worked with D3D in 3.6.9, but my point is that D3D support was disabled in 3.6.10 because of the bugs, as you guessed. No one can/will fix them so it's not being supported any longer. And I agree, trying to make hardware that's 1.1 compliant work with 1.2 is likely not possible with a simple driver switch. It just can't do it. Like putting a square peg in a round hole.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Zacam on March 28, 2009, 05:34:44 pm: It is possible for older hardware to support newer OpenGL.

There are cards that were created before OpenGL 2 was finalized that now have OpenGL 2 Support in their drivers. Same with OpenGL 3.

The issue is mapping how the OpenGL operates within the hardware and to what exent the extensions are supportable by the processing capability of the GPU and memory transfer.

So it is not un-feasable for a OpenGL 1.2 file (as a microupdate between two, vs from Open GL 1 to 2) too provide some operation, hence why I suggested it.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on March 29, 2009, 12:16:05 am: Ok so it's like putting a square peg through a round hole, you can't do it without cutting the corners off the peg first :)
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 02, 2009, 12:03:43 am: Mmmm... quite interesting stuff in here.

D3D and 3.6.9 are discarded, mediavps are no more and 3.6.10 is possibly in the ways of strange driver manipulations...

Could you post some rough guidelines about opengl 'hacking' and how to change the drivers without fooling the machine and making it CRASH?

[OFFTOPIC mode on]
What in the hell are all those 'mom' that suddenly appeared in the middle of all the posts? (and not specifically on this thread only)
[OFFTOPIC mode off]
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: TopAce on April 02, 2009, 11:44:56 am: It's an (silly) April Fool's joke. It will go away soon, hopefully.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on April 02, 2009, 01:01:28 pm: I don't think any amount of hacking is going to make it run on that hardware, I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 04, 2009, 07:41:19 am: Quote from: Zacam on March 28, 2009, 05:34:44 pm
It is possible for older hardware to support newer OpenGL.

There are cards that were created before OpenGL 2 was finalized that now have OpenGL 2 Support in their drivers. Same with OpenGL 3.

The issue is mapping how the OpenGL operates within the hardware and to what exent the extensions are supportable by the processing capability of the GPU and memory transfer.

So it is not un-feasable for a OpenGL 1.2 file (as a microupdate between two, vs from Open GL 1 to 2) too provide some operation, hence why I suggested it.

Oh yes! I got it, I'll try it first and see if that works, on the page I linked on a previous post said that was just the DRIVERS that didn't support 1.2 version, not the hardware so getting drivers (and changing opengl) for another intel card may work

EDIT: I ripped the OpenGL drivers of a newer chipset and integrated them into my actual drivers, however that didn't do the trick.

Perhaps i'm not doing things the right way.

Zacam: When you talked about opengl files on fs2 dir, what files were you talking about? opengl32 and glu32? or the intel drivers?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Zacam on April 06, 2009, 04:04:22 pm: A few ways to handle this.

Install regular Intel driver to the system, place an updated OpenGL (from a newer driver) into the FS2 dir. This has almost (but some possibility) no chance of success, so don't be discouraged if it doesn't work.

Convince newer drivers to recognize and install themselves for your card. This requires some INF editing, and will result in windows complaining that the drivers are not digitally signed. Not usually a big deal, but choosing the right drivers to "convince" can be irksome sometimes.

There are some other more esoteric things that can be done, though if it gets to that point, it would simply be a lot easier to shell out for a new card. I'm thinking about setting up something like a donation drive to help people acquire "bare minimum" cards that will do the job, since I really want to see more people enjoying FSO and all it's TC's and Mods/Campaigns rather than miles of postings about how "feature X is great if only it would run on my pos".

And to address about the OpenGL and GLU32 files, while those are useful, they generally don't do much good without something to interface between them and the graphics driver, as (as I understand it) those are simple libraries of what OpenGL is and does, not really on how to use and display it.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 09, 2009, 01:42:40 pm: I think I did well too many inf hacking and even the catalog! When I tried the OpenGL thing on my computer I just stickied intel opengl driver files iglicd32.dll and igldev32.dll from a newer card onto the previous for my current card that where named different, so i needed to open the cat file with an hex editor and replaced carefully the filename of both files, so what I really did was to put the OpenGL drivers from the new card at disposal for ALL windows, not only fso, so pasting the drivers on fso folder won't really do anything on that state.

However, I know that I did something the wrong way since now I lost all opengl acceleration, and even worse, I can't install any display drivers over my hacked drivers, I open the Add/remove hw wiz and when it finishes the following appears on the last screen:

windows can't install the driver (...) the following error occured: "The system could not find the specified file"

or something like that, that happens anytime I want to install other driver!
I should say that in the error message, it doesn't says what file it's talking about, sounds strange
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 25, 2009, 11:07:40 am: Well since it has been a time since I last posted, time to say:

This was like way too much for a simple problem, i now decided to use 3.6.9 and d3d, however I would be glad if there is a workaround for the beam crashes. No more hacking and dealing with obscure parts of windows. Just a fix for a ¿simple? problem
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on April 25, 2009, 11:16:07 am: The simple problem is that it simply isn't designed to run on that hardware, and the simple solution is to get some form of dedicated graphics card that's better than the onboard.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 28, 2009, 07:12:40 pm: Seeming that 3.6.9 version of FSO did work, I decided to ignore all of you and installed mediavps 3.6.8 Zeta, and don't you believe me, but they did work, and without lag!

But, a new problem arised: Is fso so much dependant of texture compression or is just me?

I could see the ship thrusters, the lights, the squadron logo, but not the ship itself! I even could see many more stars in the space than without the mod.

I asked that of the texture compression because of the following line in the log:

Code: [Select]
dds: Couldn't open 'exp20_0000' -- error description DDS is compressed but compression support is not enabled
BTW: Here is the whole log of the debug version:

Code: [Select]
========================================================================== DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved. ========================================================================== Passed cmdline options: -jpgtga -missile_lighting -glow -spec -ship_choice_3d Building file index... Searching root 'E:\games\freespace2\' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\root_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\smarty_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\sparky_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\stu_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\tango1_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\tango2_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\tango3_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\warble_fs2.vp' Searching root 'h:\' Searching root pack 'h:\tango2_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'h:\tango3_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'h:\tangoB_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'h:\warble_fs2.vp' Found 15 roots and 9629 files. Setting language to English Initializing OpenAL... Using 'Generic Software' as OpenAL sound device... OpenAL Vendor : Creative Labs Inc. OpenAL Renderer : Software OpenAL Version : 1.1 ... OpenAL successfully initialized! GR_CPU: Family 6, MMX=Yes Initializing Direct3D graphics device at 1024x768 with 16-bit color... Direct3D Adapter : Intel(R) 82810 Graphics Controller Direct3D Driver Version : 6.13.1.3196 Alpha texture format = ARGB, 4:4:4:4 Non-alpha texture format = ARGB, 1:5:5:5 Max texture units: 2 Max texture size: 1024x1024 Can use compressed textures: NO Texture compression available: NO ... Direct3D init is complete! Size of bitmap info = 705 KB Size of bitmap extra info = 40 bytes ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted) GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors... SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence... SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization... LUA: Opening LUA state... LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries... LUA: Performing global function/(library/object) name repeat check... LUA: Performing library/object name repeat check... LUA: Performing object/object name repeat check... LUA: Performing library/library name repeat check... LUA: Initializing library functions... LUA: Initializing object functions... SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence.... Wokka! Error opening file (scripting.tbl)! Unable to parse scripting.tbl! Code = 5. SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete. Loading 2_PreLoad.tga for the first time. Loading 2_PreLoadLogo.pcx for the first time. Using high memory settings... Wokka! Error opening file (interface.tbl)! Unable to parse interface.tbl! cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-sdf.tbm" TBM => Starting parse of 'mv_effects-sdf.tbm' ... ANI 2_radar1 with size 170x170 (33.6% wasted) Windoze reported 16 joysticks, we found 0 Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-mus.tbm" TBM => Starting parse of 'mv_music-mus.tbm' ... cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-mfl.tbm" Wokka! Error opening file (armor.tbl)! Unable to parse armor.tbl! cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-amr.tbm" cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-wxp.tbm" TBM => Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wxp.tbm' ... BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 64 frames at 35 fps. dds: Couldn't open 'exp20_0000' -- error description DDS is compressed but compression support is not enabled Freeing all existing models... WARNING: VRAM is at 1048576 instead of zero after flushing!
PS: Where could I get some other decent text editor that could display a current line feed instead of the character 10 (or 13) in the ASCII code, other than notepad?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2009, 07:18:57 pm: It doesn't look like you're even using the MediaVPs, unless I missed something...

In any case, the 3.6.10 MVPs should run just as easily as the 3.6.8s if you take mv_adveffects out, shouldn't they??
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 28, 2009, 10:12:34 pm: Quote from: General Battuta on April 28, 2009, 07:18:57 pm
It doesn't look like you're even using the MediaVPs, unless I missed something...

In any case, the 3.6.10 MVPs should run just as easily as the 3.6.8s if you take mv_adveffects out, shouldn't they??

Don't worry it was me the one who missed something: I extracted the vps into freespace data\whatever. I did this because i didn't like the fact that there were files that repeated in some vps so i extracted them all except adveffects (which i didnt donwnloaded, either) and then i extracted both mv_710 to replace the old files, after that, no mod in the launcher thats why -mod mediavps is missing.

Anyway the ships didn't show.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2009, 10:21:52 pm: Wait...so you can't see the HTL ships?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 28, 2009, 11:02:46 pm: In debug build: the preload image of SCP appears and then:

Code: [Select]
Warning: EFF: No frame images were found. EFF, exp20.eff, is invalid. File:j:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\bmpman\bmpman.cpp Line: 1846 [This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable] Call stack: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Load() weapon_expl_info_init() weapon_init() game_init() game_main() WinMain() WinMainCRTStartup() kernel32.dll 7c817067() ------------------------------------------------------------------
I press no (for continue) then this other appears:

Code: [Select]
Warning: Weapon explosion 'exp20' does not have an LOD0 anim! File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Weapon\Weapons.cpp Line: 1192 [This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable] Call stack: ------------------------------------------------------------------ weapon_expl_info_init() weapon_init() game_init() game_main() WinMain() WinMainCRTStartup() kernel32.dll 7c817067() ------------------------------------------------------------------
I press no again, then the first msgbox appears again, the cycle repeats until I press cancel (to exit)

With the non-debug version:

The menu appears, whenever I load a mission: the load screen appears, and one _ appears in the progress bar then:

Code: [Select]
Error: Could not load WarpMap01 anim file File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Fireball\FireBalls.cpp Line: 697 [This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable] Call stack: ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------
I press ok on that, then this one appears:

Code: [Select]
Error: Could not load WarpMap02 anim file File:J:\src\cvs\fs2_open_3_6_9.final\code\Fireball\FireBalls.cpp Line: 697 [This filename points to the location of a file on the computer that built this executable] Call stack: ------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------
Same but whith warpmap02 instead of 01. I press ok again, and the mission loads completely, and now to the problem of the ships: this 3 screenshots say it all:

(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1062/screen0001.jpg)
(http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8168/screen0002.jpg)
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/1121/screen0003.jpg)

Finally, here's a fresh log without the horrible hack mentioned above:

Code: [Select]
========================================================================== DEBUG SPEW: No debug_filter.cfg found, so only general, error, and warning categories can be shown and no debug_filter.cfg info will be saved. ========================================================================== Passed cmdline options: -jpgtga -missile_lighting -glow -spec -mod mediavps Building file index... Searching root 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\mp-710_effects.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\mp-710_models.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\mv_core.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\mv_effects.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\mv_models.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\mv_music.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\mv_textures.vp' Searching root 'E:\games\freespace2\' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\root_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\smarty_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\sparky_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\sparky_hi_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\stu_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\tango1_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\tango2_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\tango3_fs2.vp' Searching root pack 'E:\games\freespace2\warble_fs2.vp' Found 18 roots and 9739 files. Setting language to English Initializing OpenAL... Using 'Generic Software' as OpenAL sound device... OpenAL Vendor : Creative Labs Inc. OpenAL Renderer : Software OpenAL Version : 1.1 ... OpenAL successfully initialized! GR_CPU: Family 6, MMX=Yes Initializing Direct3D graphics device at 1024x768 with 16-bit color... Direct3D Adapter : Intel(R) 82810 Graphics Controller Direct3D Driver Version : 6.13.1.3196 Alpha texture format = ARGB, 4:4:4:4 Non-alpha texture format = ARGB, 1:5:5:5 Max texture units: 2 Max texture size: 1024x1024 Can use compressed textures: NO Texture compression available: NO ... Direct3D init is complete! Size of bitmap info = 705 KB Size of bitmap extra info = 40 bytes ANI cursorweb with size 24x24 (25.0% wasted) GRAPHICS: Initializing default colors... SCRIPTING: Beginning initialization sequence... SCRIPTING: Beginning Lua initialization... LUA: Opening LUA state... LUA: Initializing base Lua libraries... LUA: Performing global function/(library/object) name repeat check... LUA: Performing library/object name repeat check... LUA: Performing object/object name repeat check... LUA: Performing library/library name repeat check... LUA: Initializing library functions... LUA: Initializing object functions... SCRIPTING: Beginning main hook parse sequence.... Wokka! Error opening file (scripting.tbl)! Unable to parse scripting.tbl! Code = 5. SCRIPTING: Inititialization complete. Loading 2_PreLoad.tga for the first time. Loading 2_PreLoadLogo.pcx for the first time. Using high memory settings... Wokka! Error opening file (interface.tbl)! Unable to parse interface.tbl! cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-sdf.tbm" TBM => Starting parse of 'mv_effects-sdf.tbm' ... ANI 2_radar1 with size 170x170 (33.6% wasted) CFILE: Created new directory 'E:\games\freespace2\mediavps\data\' Windoze reported 16 joysticks, we found 0 Current soundtrack set to -1 in event_music_reset_choices cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-mus.tbm" TBM => Starting parse of 'mv_music-mus.tbm' ... cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-mfl.tbm" Wokka! Error opening file (armor.tbl)! Unable to parse armor.tbl! cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-amr.tbm" cf_get_file_list_preallocated looking for type=7, filter="*-wxp.tbm" TBM => Starting parse of 'mv_effects-wxp.tbm' ... BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 64 frames at 35 fps. dds: Couldn't open 'exp20_0000' -- error description DDS is compressed but compression support is not enabled BMPMAN: Found EFF (exp20.eff) with 64 frames at 35 fps. dds: Couldn't open 'exp20_0000' -- error description DDS is compressed but compression support is not enabled Freeing all existing models... WARNING: VRAM is at 1048576 instead of zero after flushing!
Phew! finally a decent post with tons of info! hope that helps!
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2009, 11:21:36 pm: Whoakay. I'm no expert, but it looks to me like you're running in Direct3D.

Try switching to OpenGL.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 29, 2009, 01:28:49 am: Eww, Intel GPU.

Find the latest possible drivers for your graphics card, then try switching to OpenGL. Direct3D "works" with 3.6.9, but...

And switch to 32-bit colours.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 29, 2009, 01:41:52 pm: Intel 82810 doesn't support 32 bit colors, and it doesn't support Opengl 1.2!!!! (no problem with v1.1)
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Intel doesn't support 810 chipset anymore, and they won't do any newer drivers, I already have the latest ones.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 29, 2009, 01:44:01 pm: Calm down, dude.

If that's the case, there is really nothing we can do. It is up to you, now. Buy new hardware or live with these FreeSpace-related issues.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on April 29, 2009, 02:03:36 pm: Quote from: Rapsodius on April 29, 2009, 01:41:52 pm
Intel 82810 doesn't support 32 bit colors, and it doesn't support Opengl 1.2!!!! (no problem with v1.1)
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Intel doesn't support 810 chipset anymore, and they won't do any newer drivers, I already have the latest ones.

I hate to say this, but you might be better off running the game without the MediaVPs. Freespace Open and most campaigns will work just fine.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 29, 2009, 03:04:23 pm: Isn' t there a more intermediate solution (like using a program to decompress eff's and dds's) so i can live without texture compression and with cool graphics?, if this doesn't work just tell me which vps to get rid off.. (to get the effect of the new thrusters and the old ship textures, which my computer can handle)
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on April 29, 2009, 03:06:44 pm: Hrrm. You could extract individual effects you like and put them in the relevant /data folders.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 29, 2009, 03:13:35 pm: I lack a viewer for seeing compressed textures and doing the work, I have VPView32 v2.0 beta 5,modview32, aniview32, and they all work with the retail formats, are there any good viewers available?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on April 29, 2009, 03:19:39 pm: I'm afraid we are now in well over my technical head.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on April 29, 2009, 03:35:26 pm: Well, anyway, thanks for all the help!

Hope this helps other people too.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on May 02, 2009, 10:26:12 am: Hey, I've putted this crap to do some proper texture rendering!!

Reading the wiki, I found the solution to my problem:

Using Irfanview, I converted DDS into PCX, then paletted them into 8-bit (just like in retail), however since details are lost, I'm planning to only convert shine and glow maps. into TGA or JPG 24-bit as they just can be used by my computer.

I even have the idea to make some tonned down mediavps so people with low specs like me can play this game. It could even help people with better machines (not so good) that want to increase their fps.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 02, 2009, 11:17:01 am: Good idea.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on May 21, 2009, 12:00:11 pm: Well, long time no see. .p

Here's an update of my problem:

Yesterday, I was trying to find a clue on what could be causing the crashing issue on explosions, and suddenly I got my debug version to load, so i could check the logs later, but it didn't crashed.

I blowed up an Iceni and the game froze, then it recovered slowly and finally it showed the explosion.
However, using the retail (non debug) version of FSO, crash again, so I don't really know whats causing this.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 21, 2009, 03:35:19 pm: Post the fs2_open.log from /data.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on May 22, 2009, 08:16:03 pm: Here it is, for your heart's content:

Quote from: Forum error

The following error or errors occurred while posting this message:
The message exceeds the maximum allowed length (50000 characters).

Hmm... posting log as an attachment.

BTW: before you ask, I have disabled sound.

In the game I loaded mission "The romans blunder" (fs2 campaign). Entered cheat mode and blowed up the Iceni, yet to no avail, it didn't crash.

Same procedure but with release version = crash.

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 22, 2009, 08:23:12 pm: So refresh my memory, what's the current issue?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on May 22, 2009, 11:18:20 pm: The crash on the release version of FSO. I supose the problem is on eff animations which use too much processing power I don't have.

I had the idea to convert eff's into anis but first I need all the animation frames paletted with the same palette. Its a hard work to do by hand, so I need a batch program that could calculate the best palette in a series of files and apply it to them.

I'm still working on the mediavps. Fps are acceptable, until one of those animations wants to display, and the counter falls to 5 and below.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: colecampbell666 on May 23, 2009, 08:58:43 am: Well I think that your PC is just too old. I'd stick to playing sans MVPs, or convert them as you say.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on May 23, 2009, 12:31:07 pm: I've already done the eff conversion using Bright 1.83 to palette all animation bmps into pcxs using the same palette on all.

Then using volition's AC Ani converter, I converted them into anis.

Only a little speed up. I really don't know what makes it slow down, but i think they re the jpgs.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on June 01, 2009, 09:27:28 am: Hi guys, I decided to buy some other video card, and I'm asking for advice here:

I was suggested a nVidia mx400 (PCI slot not express) 64 mb, ~ 300 mhz RAMDAC

However I'm a little skeptical since it 'only' doubles my current onboard video memory, yeah I know that memory doesn't makes the difference, but strange feeling.

I also seen better nvidia's (5000 series, 128 & 256 mb) with the common PCI slot, however they seem to work only on newer mobo's, strange since they are not PCI-E.

Is that one alright or do you suggest any better option?
Also, remember I don't have PCI-E nor even AGP ports, for further info, my mobo is an AOpen Mx3W-Pro
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on June 01, 2009, 09:57:01 am: I hope you're not paying more than like, 5 or 10 bucks for that, or even better, just taking it off someone's hands for them so they don't have to throw it away.

A Geforce 5xxx series is old itself, it should work on old motherboards. They're from like, 2003.

I have an FX 5200 as my spare card at work, it's not a bad little card. Runs FS fairly well, might even do GLSL.

Even if the dedicated card had the same amount of memory as your onboard card uses, it'd be better, because then you can give that memory back to your PC to use for other things. Onboard cards just use system ram, they don't have any of their own. And 64 is far better than 32, and memory does often make a huge difference, especially on older hardware. It's to the point that FSO could definitely use the extra 32 megs.

I'd go with the 5xxx series Geforce if you can get one for ~$20 or less.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on June 01, 2009, 10:13:55 am: Unfortunately not. Its a 5200 FX with 128mb, like the one you have, but it's at $90!! Quite expensive for being old technology, I'm not going to spend like that on an old machine, it's nonsense.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Zacam on June 01, 2009, 10:32:39 am: You can actually find newer cards in PCI format. I believe eVGA has an 8400 PCI card (unless they seriously typo'd, but then I have to wonder why it's on the same page as n\the PCI-E version)
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on June 01, 2009, 01:31:03 pm: The FX 5200 is all over eBay for $20 to $30. Don't know where you're getting charged that much for it but unless it's brand new in box they're totally screwing you, and even then it shouldn't be more than $40, maybe $50 in a brick and mortar store with a guarantee.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on June 01, 2009, 02:52:24 pm: It's from Jaton.... which brand has them cheaper?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on June 01, 2009, 05:37:01 pm: I don't know about a specific brand, or whether you'd want to get one on eBay, but that's where I get that kind of hardware these days.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on June 02, 2009, 10:21:42 am: I have found the following (all are pci) but I don't know which should go with my computer, because of compatibility with P3 processors:

• nVidia GeForce FX5500 256 MB
• nVidia GeForce MX4000 OEM 128 MB <- Four Thousand (4000)
• nVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 Widescreen 64 MB <- Four Hundreed (400)
• nVidia M64 Tnt2 32 MB

Those aclarations are simply to show I didn't typo'd the numbers, because of its similarity.

In case more than one goes with my cpu, which is the best?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: General Battuta on June 02, 2009, 12:51:25 pm: I haven't read over the whole thread, but is this really going to help him run the MVPs?

Isn't his hardware obsolete enough that buying a slightly less obsolete graphics card might just be throwing good money after bad?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 02, 2009, 02:14:21 pm: 5500 all the way.

Quote from: General Battuta on June 02, 2009, 12:51:25 pm
I haven't read over the whole thread, but is this really going to help him run the MVPs?

Isn't his hardware obsolete enough that buying a slightly less obsolete graphics card might just be throwing good money after bad?
He has an Intel GPU, so anything's better.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on June 02, 2009, 02:45:38 pm: Yeah the 5500 would be pretty decent probably.
Title: Re: New Issues
Post by: Rapsodius on June 14, 2009, 07:36:17 pm: Well, I didn't updated the video card yet, but I experimented more with FS2Open.

Last days I paletised (mispelled?) mediavps maps and effects into 8-bit PCX's, I got 1700+ graphics files into ~100 different palettes, they don't look bad, thrust me.

Well, the following annoying things happened:

- Fenris and Leviathan had 2 big green rectangles on the engine
- fighter06b texture (used by herc) couldn't be loaded don't know why.
- But the worst is that on the tech room, I can see all the models, I could even render a Hatshesput with glow and shine maps, with no fps loss, however in game, It's all laggy, it makes me mad because I don't know what's causing the slow down.

PS: Don't blame the hardware :p
PSS: I owe you screens of the cruisers
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on June 14, 2009, 08:07:53 pm: Big green rectangles probably mean that the texture had an alpha layer and when it was changed to green, like used in PCX, it wasn't the right color in the palette. I've always hated dealing with PCX palettes myself, thank god we don't have to anymore.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 15, 2009, 05:25:25 pm: Quote from: Rapsodius on June 14, 2009, 07:36:17 pm
PS: Don't blame the hardware :p
Why not? Your hardware isn't supported, and it's bound to be too slow and cause issues.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on June 16, 2009, 01:33:31 pm: Quote from: colecampbell666 on June 15, 2009, 05:25:25 pm
Why not? Your hardware isn't supported, and it's bound to be too slow and cause issues.

Because FSO Lags even with mediavps turned off.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Jeff Vader on June 16, 2009, 01:37:23 pm: Quote from: Rapsodius on June 16, 2009, 01:33:31 pm
Quote from: colecampbell666 on June 15, 2009, 05:25:25 pm
Why not? Your hardware isn't supported, and it's bound to be too slow and cause issues.
Because FSO Lags even with mediavps turned off.
The hardware isn't helping, either. Not with XP, at least.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on June 16, 2009, 01:46:38 pm: Quote from: Jeff Vader on June 16, 2009, 01:37:23 pm
The hardware isn't helping, either. Not with XP, at least.

I should have mentioned I'm playing it on 2000 now, I tried to put OpenGL, and it 'partially' worked, despite the fact I chose 16 or 32 bit (which my video card doesn't support), FSO showed up in 256 colors, and the ships were invisible, just like the screens before, but this time it wasn't compressed textures. Strange I could see thrusters and lights but I couldn't see nebulaes either.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 16, 2009, 02:12:09 pm: Quote from: Rapsodius on June 16, 2009, 01:33:31 pm
Quote from: colecampbell666 on June 15, 2009, 05:25:25 pm
Why not? Your hardware isn't supported, and it's bound to be too slow and cause issues.

Because FSO Lags even with mediavps turned off.
So let me get this straight:
You're hoping to run FSO MVPs on a card that can't run the original?
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: Rapsodius on June 16, 2009, 02:14:53 pm: Quote from: colecampbell666 on June 16, 2009, 02:12:09 pm
You're hoping to run FSO MVPs on a card that can't run the original?

No, you're wrong, I can perfectly run the original. However FSO performance is laggy, maybe something to do with the .9 build.
Title: Re: Problem with 3.6.10 and 3.6.9
Post by: chief1983 on June 16, 2009, 03:08:23 pm: I think he meant the original data. Maybe. I would assume retail FS2 exe would work ok on that hardware and Win2k, as I played it on less back in the day (although I had a 'better' graphics card, a Voodoo Banshee). But D3D performance isn't going to be what it used to be with FSO, and you'd really be better off with a card with decent OpenGL acceleration. Even a Radeon 7000 would probably be better, or a Geforce 2 MX. I find those in trash piles. Ask a local computer store if they have a stack they're getting ready to throw out.