Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Liberator on April 08, 2009, 01:36:07 pm
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Based on an intuitive analysis of current events and a basic knowledge of history I feel confident in coining the following phrase...
"We're doomed!"™ Not your garden variety, weakened economy, bad employment doom, but Dark Ages misery and the Fall of Civilization Doom. The world is collapsing into barbarism and the leadership seems not only unable to stem the tide, but actually be welcoming the fall.
The problem with this is there is not enough raw materials for a future generation to claw they're way out of barbarism and back to civilization, much less the level of comfort and technology we enjoy today. We fall now, we fall forever.
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Space. We need to go there.
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Won't help.
We're falling now, and it'll take 200 more years at least before we could consider an viable permanent XT colony that is completely self-sufficient, much less extra-solar. By that time, your great grandchildren will be fighting for they're very lives against god knows what.
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Any evidence for this claim?
Indicators of happiness, democracy, health, peace, and individual well-being are trending upwards around the world and have been for some time.
Population growth is shrinking.
By any objective measure we're in a golden age and it doesn't seem to be falling apart.
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Doom shmoom.
Civilization may fall, but humanity itself will recover.
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Evidence, please. Hard, cold, irrefutable evidence. Not only that everything is going down the drain, but going down irrecoverably. Here's a hint: "Civilization" has never, ever ceased to exist, even back in the so-called "dark ages". Central european civilization took a nosedive, yes. Middle eastern, Asian, and native american cultures didn't seem to be bothered by that. Also, people have been crying about the downfall of civilization for millennia now, and it didn't happen. Chances are, it won't.
Any evidence for this claim?
Indicators of happiness, democracy, health, peace, and individual well-being are trending upwards around the world and have been for some time.
Population growth is shrinking.
By any objective measure we're in a golden age and it doesn't seem to be falling apart.
That. Pretty much so.
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Renewed piracy on the worlds oceans.
Military Dictators who have stated that they want to wipe whole countries from existence developing the weapons to do and not being stopped by the "World Community" with it's supposed moral superiority.
Other countries developing delivery systems capable of deploying said weapons.
Still other, non-aligned organizations whose stated purpose is the ending of Western Civilization not being meaningfully eradicated through education and less peaceful means.
Need I go on...
When it finally happens, like the Patricians in Rome, you won't see it coming because you are bloated with confidence in own superiority.
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Every generation thinks it is special enough to be the end generation.
Several plagues and epidemics, two World Wars, a Cold War (threat of nuclear annihilation, anyone?), and countless other atrocities and humanity is still here; for better or for worse.
Sure **** may hit the fan, but if anybody can provide evidence to support the claim that THIS is finally it; please provide it.
There are plenty of problems to deal with (global society = global problems) but there's no evidence to suggest we've completely failed in meeting them. We're doing quite well. I'm not bloated by any confidence in my superiority, just the fact that we're not doing so badly. Military dictators want to rip apart whole countries? We haven't seen that in centuries...All that is just evidence progress is becoming a bit slowed down, not that we're regressing.
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TBH I don't really care if half of the Middle East becomes uninhabitable or major cities get flooded as long as I'm not affected.
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We're falling now, and it'll take 200 more years at least before we could consider an viable permanent XT colony that is completely self-sufficient, much less extra-solar. By that time, your great grandchildren will be fighting for they're very lives against god knows what.
Rad Scorpions. Everyone knows that.
Oh...and GLOBAL WARMING...and ASTEROID STRIKES!
Let's not forget the SUN SWALLOWING EARTH. All are bound to happen.....sooner or later.*
*sooner or later may not refer to your specific view of sooner or later
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Renewed piracy on the worlds oceans.
No. Piracy getting more media attention, sure. More people trying to make a living by using force on the high seas, maybe. But not a sign that "CIVILIZATION IS ENDING OMGZOR!
Reports of piracy attacks were declining worldwide since 2004, but seems to have bottomed out in 2007.[41][unreliable source?]Figures reported by the International Maritime Bureau indicate incident reporting fell for the third year in a row in 2006. Ships reported 239 incidents to the IMB during the year 2006, down from 276 in 2005, and 329 in 2004.[42] But the piracy rose by 14% in the first nine months of 2007.[41][unreliable source?]
The maritime watchdog group points to better awareness of the magnitude of piracy and subsequent involvement by governments in combating piracy as factors in the decline.[43]
Yet hotspots remain. They include Indonesia, Nigeria, Somalia, and the ports of Chittagong in Bangladesh and Santos in Brazil, according to the International Maritime Bureau (IMB) 2006 Annual Report. Furthermore, experts caution that local problem areas can emerge quickly, despite a worldwide down trend in pirate attacks.
"When attacks hit a peak in 2000, at that time Somalia was just a blip on the radar screen," said the secretary-general of the Shipping Federation during an interview with the London Financial Times. "Then it becomes a big problem. Piracy tends to be a feature of areas where there is either lawlessness or real economic deprivation and it's very difficult to eradicate."[44]
The recent downward trend in piracy worldwide follows a period when attacks tripled between 1993 and 2003. The first half of 2003 was the worst 6-month period on record, with 234 pirate attacks, 16 deaths, and 52 people injured worldwide. There were also 193 crew members held hostage during this period.[45][46] In the first 6 months of 2004, 182 reported cases of piracy turned up worldwide, 50 of which occurring in Indonesian waters.[47]
The Piracy Reporting Centre of the International Maritime Bureau (IMB) stated in 2004 that more pirate attacks in that year occurred in Indonesian waters (70 of 251 reported attacks) than in the waters of any other country. Of these attacks, a majority occurred in the Straits of Malacca. They also stated that of the attacks in 2004, oil and gas tankers and bulk carriers were the most popular targets with 67 attacks on tankers and 52 on bulk carriers.
Military Dictators who have stated that they want to wipe whole countries from existence developing the weapons to do and not being stopped by the "World Community" with it's supposed moral superiority.
Are you serious? There have alwaqys been nutcases in charge of some third-world country spouting that kind of nonsense. It's when they have resources to actually follow through on these threats that things start to get worrying (Last time that happened, it got called WW2. Right now, there's a whole lot of saber rattling, but starting another large scale war is thoroughly unlikely.)
Othe r countries developing delivery systems capable of deploying said weapons.
So? Let's say North Korea starts some **** by nuking...erm....Japan? 30 Minutes later, Pyongyang is a parking lot. (Or something non-nuclear happens to them. Seriously, Neither Iran, nor Pakistan, nor Israel, nor North Korea are anywhere near the amount of world ending capability the USA and Russia managed to stockpile during the Cold War.)
Still other, non-aligned organizations whose stated purpose is the ending of Western Civilization not being meaningfully eradicated through education and less peaceful means.
Because, as much as I would like to send every creationist on this earth into an education camp for applied evolution, I won't do it. Because, as retarded as some people are, they jstill have their right to their opinion, and I respect that. Oh, and random terrorist group #3 spouting crap like "We'll destroy western civilization"? Civilizations are notoriously hard to destroy.
Need I go on...
When it finally happens, like the Patricians in Rome, you won't see it coming because you are bloated with confidence in own superiority.
Actually, yes, you need to.
What makes your doomy prediction of doom more accurate than, say, any other?
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the price of beer is set to rise again.......
thats pretty compelling
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Srsly, this entire DOOM DOOM thing is a pile of bull****.
A few years ago, it was the prospect of MAD and the EVIL EVIL Commies. Before that is was teh EVIL EVIL Nazis. Before that it was the EVIL EVIL Spanish flu. Before that it was, something which I don't know because I suck at history.
Anyway, you get the point. No doom for you.
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Renewed piracy on the worlds oceans.
If piracy is the worst security threat you can come up with, the world's in pretty good shape. Especially given the cohesive global response.
Military Dictators who have stated that they want to wipe whole countries from existence developing the weapons to do and not being stopped by the "World Community" with it's supposed moral superiority.
Other countries developing delivery systems capable of deploying said weapons.
...and, again, the number of these dictators is decreasing. And with the Cold War over, we're farther from global thermonuclear war than ever before. So it seems like this front is calm. Not safe. But calming.
Still other, non-aligned organizations whose stated purpose is the ending of Western Civilization not being meaningfully eradicated through education and less peaceful means.
Boy, as opposed to the past, where aligned organizations and empires with tremendous power tried to take over the world and commit genocide. Sounds like things are getting so much worse.
Need I go on...
Apparently.
When it finally happens, like the Patricians in Rome, you won't see it coming because you are bloated with confidence in own superiority.
Now that you might be right about -- but it's more likely to be a natural disaster than a human collapse.
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What Snail said. Unless something really unexpected happens (divine intervention, asteroids, aliens, cats developing opposable thumbs), the only thing you're doomed to is to see humanity simply going on despite the best efforts of doomsayers everywhere.
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Doom? No.
Some restructuring of the world wether good or bad....probably. But that's the cycle of life here on our little ball of dirt.
hell for such a doom and gloom economy we're in....I've never been doing better in my life. Wife and I are actually looking at buying our first house soon, I'm clearing 3 times what I was making when I was first hanging around these boards and the biggest concern was : "When are we getting FS3" Ohhhh wait....should I not mention that again ? :D
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Doom is no more imminent than it was at any other time in history.
The biggest threat really is probably something natural. Like an uberquake or a comet. Or some kind of supervirus.
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This non-specific doom-mongering is not terribly convincing. Although millions may suffer due to war, famine, or climate change, civilisation is not going to end itself anytime soon. I think the fact that we (in the West) complain about things like the economy, drugs, and potential terrorism, rather than famine, total war, or incoming asteroids, is a sign that we're not facing an immediate existential threat.
A possible rise in sea levels due to climate change may be one of few real global 'threats', and even that is unlikely to collapse all that is civilised.
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This non-specific doom-mongering is not terribly convincing. Although millions may suffer due to war, famine, or climate change, civilisation is not going to end itself anytime soon. I think the fact that we (in the West) complain about things like the economy, drugs, and potential terrorism, rather than famine, total war, or incoming asteroids, is a sign that we're not facing an immediate existential threat.
A possible rise in sea levels due to climate change may be one of few real global 'threats', and even that is unlikely to collapse all that is civilised.
:yes:
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2012: the day oil runs out. God, what have you idiot's done?!?
(Seriously, I bet that's what happens. Maybe like those retarded Arabs will nuke eachother, thus ruining the oil fields you depend on)
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2012: the day oil runs out. God, what have you idiot's done?!?
(Seriously, I bet that's what happens. Maybe like those retarded Arabs will nuke eachother, thus ruining the oil fields you depend on)
You know what I think happens on 2012?
NOTHING
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Wait, yes, something does happen. I turn 16 :drevil:
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How nice.
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I wouldn't call it doom anyway. Its rather about transforming our way of living into something sustainable - a trick that has never been done before, nobody knows how to do it. Until now, every crisis, be it a minor or a major one, has been just a small speed bump on the road based on the idea of growth, the idea of using more, spending more, owning more, consuming more..
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http://www.theonion.com/content/video/are_violent_video_games (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/are_violent_video_games)
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Dec 21, 2012 is the day "They" come back. The aliens that gave the Maya, and probably several other ancient peoples, they're advanced mathematics and building techniques.
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Dec 21, 2012 is the day "They" come back. The aliens that gave the Maya, and probably several other ancient peoples, they're advanced mathematics and building techniques.
:blah:
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Dec 21, 2012 is the day "They" come back. The aliens that gave the Maya, and probably several other ancient peoples, they're advanced mathematics and building techniques.
I sure hope you aren't serious about this....
And seriously, what "advanced building techniques"? Like pyramids are that hard to figure out....Just because the people back then actually did figure out a thing or two about math and architecture doesn't mean that Aliens had anything to do with it. Human ingenuity is vastly underrated.
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Dec 21, 2012 is the day "They" come back. The aliens that gave the Maya, and probably several other ancient peoples, they're advanced mathematics and building techniques.
Didn't Star Gate already cover this?
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A pyrmamid is the tallest structure made of square blocks that will stay upright using basic tools, they aren't really all that advanced mathematically or even architecturally, as I've said before, a pile of rocks, but with style. The amazing part of that was the fact that Egypt was able to get the manpower and organisation to construct them, not the manner of their construction.
The thing that made Egypt so powerful wasn't maths or architecture, it was the first civilisation to come up with the idea of fields and farming on any large scale. That meant the Egypt could produce enough food to keep armies in the field longer, and to feed massive work-gangs.
Many theorise that one of the reasons Egyptians built pyramids was because for about 2/3 of the year, when the Inundation was low, the farmers had nothing really to do, so to prevent the usual problems associated with a bored populace, they started these massive engineering projects to keep them busy.
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While I will agree that our ingenuity is underrated.
We are talking about people one step up from the Stone Age developing advanced Geometric principles and measurement technologies that would serve no practical purpose for Copper/Bronze Age man at the time. And while the pyramids could conceiveably been constructed by vast armies of slaves over the course of decades.
There are other Megaliths, particularly in Latin and South America, that beggar description as to how they were build, simply because the landscape they are in, isn't straight and flat like Egypt. With stones so large, in such arrangement, that WE couldn't construct them, much less a Copper/Bronze Age man, no matter how bright and ingenious they were.
I only hope they're returning to celebrate the success of they're assistance and not to end a failed experiment.
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Cap'n! Daniken at 3 o'clock! One should never, ever underestimate what people can achieve, using nothing but simple tools, loads and loads of manpower, and religious motivation. Oh, and "With stones so large, in such arrangement, that WE couldn't construct them"? [citation needed]
Furthermore, what makes you think that, even if such an alien culture existed back then, they still exist today?
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We are talking about people one step up from the Stone Age developing advanced Geometric principles and measurement technologies that would serve no practical purpose for Copper/Bronze Age man at the time. And while the pyramids could conceiveably been constructed by vast armies of slaves over the course of decades.
I have to disagree with you, curiosity mixed with a variety of uses (farming, astronomy linked with religion, engineering, etc...) is what made people develop geometry in those days.
Furthermore, the pyramids were constructed by free workers, not slaves.
There are other Megaliths, particularly in Latin and South America, that beggar description as to how they were build, simply because the landscape they are in, isn't straight and flat like Egypt. With stones so large, in such arrangement, that WE couldn't construct them, much less a Copper/Bronze Age man, no matter how bright and ingenious they were.
Sources please.
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Well, the general consensus is that once a civilization reaches Type 2 status(the level at which they might start engineering other life forms in other star systems), said civilization would be a stable enough and widespread enough that a "local" disaster like a supernova or black hole formation while a major disaster, would be like a flood or Cat 5 hurricane, something regional to be dealt with and then avoided/forgotten.
For Reference, Modern Man is Type 0, though some would assign a 0.5 or 0.75 rating, and the Federation from Star Trek is a middle grade type 1. The Old Republic is a high grade Type 2. The Ancients from Star Gate, before they're ascension, would be a Type 3.
By Type X, I mean on the Kardashev scale, which used to be 5 generals types I thought. Anyway, said scale measures a civilization 's technological prowess and development based on they're energy usage on a species level.
As far as sources, there is a megalith, I think in central Mexico that is what I am thinking of, but the name eludes me atm. It might be in South America somewhere. I recall that it is very near another site that is mostly intact and is a tourist attraction, whose name also eludes me atm. Don't get old, the memory is the first thing to go. :blah:
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Dec 21, 2012 is the day "They" come back. The aliens that gave the Maya, and probably several other ancient peoples, they're advanced mathematics and building techniques.
Dec 21 2012 is the day HE comes not THEY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXvHe5r2LQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKXvHe5r2LQ)
Hide your tacos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q0OQ6tlhQw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q0OQ6tlhQw)
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Unless something has really changed about LIb, he is really having a good time getting you all to get your panties in a knot and post in his thread. :p
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As we have limited experience with star-spanning cultures, I'd say that the general consensus could best be described as "sure, why not?". Oh, and we are still waiting for those "impossible" structures.
And then there's the implicit assumption that
- FTL travel is possible
- Sufficiently advanced Aliens exist
- Those Aliens actually care about us enough to tinker with our cultural evolution
- Those Aliens actually care about us enough to actually remember us
- The Maya had some insight that other cultures lack
- The Maya calendar cutting off meaning something
Here, let me save you some of that bothersome research:
The forecast is based primarily on a claimed end-date of the 5,125-year Mesoamerican Long Count calendar, which is December 21, 2012 -- even though this was not in fact seen by the Maya themselves either as its duration or as its end-date, let alone as a doomsday one
Please, read the Article, and tell me how wrong it is. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Doomsday_Prediction)
Unless something has really changed about LIb, he is really having a good time getting you all to get your panties in a knot and post in his thread. :p
Maybe, but flamewars are fun!
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Meh IF they were a serious problem with the oil fields wed just finally say screw it and open drilling in National Reserves instead of endlessly debating it.
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Unless something has really changed about LIb, he is really having a good time getting you all to get your panties in a knot and post in his thread. :p
:nervous: :nervous: :nervous:
:shaking: :shaking:
:D
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Maybe, but flamewars are fun!
LOL!!
Sorry, but you ain't seen nothing. :D :p
You should have been around for the good ol'e days.
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Oh lawd... the evolution threads. :rolleyes: :D
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Ahh, yes, ye olde wars of flame. Back when the flames were brighter, asbestos not outlawed, and noobs were from aol.....Good times, good times....
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A pyrmamid is the tallest structure made of square blocks that will stay upright using basic tools, they aren't really all that advanced mathematically or even architecturally, as I've said before, a pile of rocks, but with style. The amazing part of that was the fact that Egypt was able to get the manpower and organisation to construct them, not the manner of their construction.
True. A pyramid is the simplest and most stable shape when building actually. You can't get much simpler than that.
Something like the collosseum (Circus Maximus) - now that's a architectural wonder.
Well, the general consensus is that once a civilization reaches Type 2 status(the level at which they might start engineering other life forms in other star systems), said civilization would be a stable enough and widespread enough that a "local" disaster like a supernova or black hole formation while a major disaster, would be like a flood or Cat 5 hurricane, something regional to be dealt with and then avoided/forgotten.
For Reference, Modern Man is Type 0, though some would assign a 0.5 or 0.75 rating, and the Federation from Star Trek is a middle grade type 1. The Old Republic is a high grade Type 2. The Ancients from Star Gate, before they're ascension, would be a Type 3.
By Type X, I mean on the Kardashev scale, which used to be 5 generals types I thought. Anyway, said scale measures a civilization 's technological prowess and development based on they're energy usage on a species level.
The Kardashev scale is one of the bigegst pieces of useless cr** I came across.
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:rolleyes: I find it mildly amusing that the topic author completely derailed his own thread. Started out with "the end is nigh" forewarning the fall of civilization and then changed the subject to whether the Goa'uld helped build the pyramids.
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You know...I'd love to have someone come on here and say:
"Guess what...I just want to say that the world is going to be alright for yet another day."
Maybe something with flowers, bambi, and alchohol. Good things. You know!
But the end of the world is so much more sensational!
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Oh lawd... the evolution threads. :rolleyes: :D
And I remember one such thread that nearly ended with a buttload of people, including myself banned. The greatest thread ever. :lol:
:rolleyes: I find it mildly amusing that the topic author completely derailed his own thread. Started out with "the end is nigh" forewarning the fall of civilization and then changed the subject to whether the Goa'uld helped build the pyramids.
Considering the thread was more of a "Hey, I'm back" than an actual serious topic, you should find it amusing. :p
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Maybe something with flowers, bambi, and alchohol. Good things. You know!
Well, IIRC, the guy who wrote Bambi also wrote erotic novels.
Maybe we are all ****ed. :D
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I don't see how the Kardashev scale is a mess, yeah it's too general, but I've seen various expansions/extensions that basically made 2 types out of 1 and 2.
It's meant as an extremely general way to rate the technological development of a culture only.
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Ok Lib, so what has brought about this non-sensical doom mongering? It was so unlike you, what happened?
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My President, and I do have to claim him for the next 3y 10m 7d, has been overseas showing how big a moron he actually is. Something to remember about him is that, while he dresses nice, and looks good, his actual experience level is very low. He was a 2 term state senator from Illinois, got elected to the federal senate spent half his term there and then got elected president. He has no practical knowledge of international politics and is bad mouthing the country he swore to protect when he took office and both he and his wife have stated publicly in the past that they are ashamed of the USA. If he's ashamed, why'd he run for the Presidency?
Nevermind that his Cabinet has liars, cheats and thieves on it. I mean he just appointed Humar to a god damned cabinet post... Almost all of them have cheated on they're taxes to one level or another and gotten caught, including our not-a-god-damned clue Secretary of the Treasury, Timothy Geightner. Every time I see him he's got a smile on his face like he knows something no one else does, as he's trying to gather all the power he can into Treasury. It just drives me up the wall that my country is going to be socialist before very long and there's not a damn thing I can do about it that isn't illegal or treason.
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/me looks at entirety of thread
[transcendant] Why? [/transcendant]
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If he's ashamed, why'd he run for the Presidency?
He didn't say that, she did.
He has no practical knowledge of international politics
Bush had even less, and did a great job of trying to make as many enemies as possible.
He was a 2 term state senator from Illinois, got elected to the federal senate spent half his term there and then got elected president.
Bush was a two term governer of Texas.
None of these things stopped you from supporting him, even though he was a total frak up in every way.
Something to remember about him is that, while he dresses nice, and looks good, his actual experience level is very low.
Same could be said about Bush, except Bush looked more like a smirking Chimpanzee.
Nevermind that his Cabinet has liars, cheats and thieves on it. I mean he just appointed Humar to a god damned cabinet post... Almost all of them have cheated on they're taxes to one level or another and gotten caught, including our not-a-god-damned clue Secretary of the Treasury, Timothy Geightner. Every time I see him he's got a smile on his face like he knows something no one else does, as he's trying to gather all the power he can into Treasury. It just drives me up the wall that my country is going to be socialist before very long and there's not a damn thing I can do about it that isn't illegal or treason.
While I don't necessarily agree with all of his cabinet choices, I don't see how any of them could be worse than Bush's Good Old Boys/Girls. Under Bush and the Republican party in general corruption was rampant, remember those no bid contracts?
My President, and I do have to claim him for the next 3y 10m 7d, has been overseas showing how big a moron he actually is.
He might not get it right but he does at least understand we have to work together on this.
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Also, as Jon Stewart said, you lost the election. You're in the minority now. It's supposed to feel like ****.
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Actually Obama's been making a pretty good account of himself over in Europe, he has a lot of political damage to try and repair though, so it's going to be an uphill job, and people still don't quite trust Americas motives. We are hopefull that Obama will bring about some change, but then, we heard a similar rhetoric from Bush and from Blair, so people are more of the opinion that actions are worth more than any amount of clever words.
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I'm pretty ashamed of America. Why shouldn't Obama be? He's probably nearly as intelligent as me!
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He might not get it right but he does at least understand we have to work together on this.
Yes, but when America says work together, it means we'll carry most of the load, just be there to help us up a hill.
When we get told to work together by another county, it means "Stick it to the stupid yankees! Long and Hard!"
Obama asked for some additional aid in Afghanistan, he was politely told to stuff it. Political repair indeed.
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Does political repair mean doing everything the US wants then?
As for this whole 'Helping America up a Hill' thing, never heard of it, do you think that Europe is sitting on it's hands doing nothing during this whole financial meltdown, is the US some kind of Super-Hero flying in to 'save the day' for a bunch of helpless Europeans who couldn't govern their way out of a paper bag? Is that how you see things?
If there's any political repair needed, it's this assumption by a certain section of the US that Europe is a bunch of no-hopers who cling to the UN as though it were God and hate America, it's bollocks of the highest order to be honest, and yet a lot of America bases it's assumptions of all Europeans based on that Stereotype.
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It just drives me up the wall that my country is going to be socialist before very long and there's not a damn thing I can do about it that isn't illegal or treason.
You could always strengthen our economy by purchasing worthless junk that you don't need.
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America isn't even starting to show any signs of socialism. There are government payments to companies that might be considered socialism if it weren't simply a question of the countries' financial survival.
In a perfect world, I'd let all these companies like AIG fall, but it's not just the directors who suffer (in fact, they would hardly suffer at all) it's the 8 hour, 5 day crew that pay the price, if you don't bail them out, then you simply end up adding thousands of unemployed people to an already wildly unstable economy. That problem would have forced some level of socialism in order to support these unemployed people. In truth, the bailout was the least damaging route.
But I certainly wouldn't worry about the US adopting socialism any time soon, it's just not the nature of its people, despite what the Republicans believe, Obama is no more an 'anti-American' than Bush was, they just use different approaches to problems, you may not agree with them, but that doesn't mean that anyone is trying to 'destroy the US'.
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It just drives me up the wall that my country is going to be socialist before very long and there's not a damn thing I can do about it that isn't illegal or treason.
You could always strengthen our economy by purchasing worthless junk that you don't need.
MADE IN PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF AMERICA
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He might not get it right but he does at least understand we have to work together on this.
Yes, but when America says work together, it means we'll carry most of the load, just be there to help us up a hill.
When we get told to work together by another county, it means "Stick it to the stupid yankees! Long and Hard!"
Obama asked for some additional aid in Afghanistan, he was politely told to stuff it. Political repair indeed.
So political repair means doing whatever we tell them to do? That isn't cooperation. The fact is Bush did such tremendous amounts of damage to America's image it will be very difficult, and many years before anyone trusts us again.
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The whole trouble with bailout this, bailout that, is that it doesn't really work. Yeah the banks need short term capital to stay solvent, but they need to be audited to a one because you don't get leveraged 47x your cash reserves over night. Actual businesses that make things are in worse shape, the Big 3 American auto makers are going down the tubes because of two factors, due to government intervention, they can't make cars people want to buy, unlike the foreign auto makers like Toyota. You don't make money if you don't sell what people want to buy and, in the rare case where there is a car/truck that people like, they can't sell competitively because they have a ridiculous amt of overhead thanks to the UAW. I read something one time that suggested that 40% of the cost of a Ford F-150 pickup truck goes to pay the union.
There's something wrong with your business model when your line workers are making $85 an hour and striking if you don't give them a raise, meanwhile, unaffiliated factories in the southern states make a comparable model of truck that costs less. They aren't unionized. They're employee's make a fair wage and live comfortably for the most part. Something like $35 or $40 an hour.
Bear in mind that while some specialized training is needed, line work is hardly what could be considered "skilled" labor. Not like, say, an electrician or an architect or something.
Lastly, I'm wailing on the UAW to be sure, but they're not the only one's to blame, the executives at The Big 3 signed the stupid contracts. Contracts that created a work pool, where unneeded line workers go and sit in a room making full wage, waiting for a new posting to become available. BTW, they are fully allowed to decline the offer and continue to wait in the pool.
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The whole trouble with bailout this, bailout that, is that it doesn't really work.
It didn't, then again Bush started it. :p
There's something wrong with your business model when your line workers are making $85 an hour and striking if you don't give them a raise, meanwhile, unaffiliated factories in the southern states make a comparable model of truck that costs less. They aren't unionized. They're employee's make a fair wage and live comfortably for the most part. Something like $35 or $40 an hour.
The unions are part of the problem, but then again GM making cars that are poorly designed and bad quality also had a lot to do with it. GM got what it deserved for a number of reasons, especially management.
It's also worth considering that the southern states are often some of the poorest in the nation, so the living standards are much lower. Low living standards = low wages.
The biggest reason for Toyata's success has been good quality for a reasonable price and good company management.
Yeah the banks need short term capital to stay solvent, but they need to be audited to a one because you don't get leveraged 47x your cash reserves over night.
Yeah, like AIG is leveraged 120x or something like that, plus they have the dubious distinction of posting the worst quarterly loss in corporate history, $60 billion. Based on that, I calculated that in one minute they lose about $450,000+.
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I'm tempted to lock this now that the other "I just wanna say" thread was locked... :sigh:
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I was about to make a similar comment, Goob :)
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but....but....but....we're having fun yelling about current events.
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I just wanted to say the world was going to be alright :)
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You have, now please can someone lock this thread?