Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: soluslunes on May 22, 2009, 06:47:58 pm
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No, don't get me wrong. This is not some "wacko-fan-based project who hopes to maek a freespace tree using fred lolololol".
Not at all.
I fully intend to acquire the rights to the FS franchise from THQ, and the script from V.
Now.
I know that this is your guys' holy grail, and after waiting so long, you may be a bit jaded. But I am one-hundred-percent serious.
I cannot do this alone. I have already contacted THQ and V about the aforementioned issues, spoken to the legal dept. at THQ. It is, in their words, "a possibility."
What do I require from you?
First and foremost, I am not a rich man. I want somebody to help me with creating a website (or hell, having something even on HL) that I could pimp out to collect donations with.
Secondly, if the first step succeeds, I've only got a few skillsets I can apply to game creation, and the community here being experienced modders could possibly help me out here. I know you guys want to see a FS3. I want to see a FS3.
And if this succeeds, this will be a MAJOR step for game development anywhere- and we will be the pioneers. Once we get a website off the ground, my first order of business will be to pimp out the project everywhere I can- Game Informer, PC Gamer, etc.
We should stop waiting- but first, I need a website for it. Who can help me? (Also note- you can also contact me through email/MSN at [email protected])
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Incoming beams in 3... 2... 1...
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Incoming beams in 3... 2... 1...
Laugh all you want, I'm dead serious :D
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My friend Solus is not one for long posts. He is, rather, a man of action, as evidenced by the fact that he's already made those phone calls. Apperently the head of the legal department won't be back till Tuesday, but he did confuse the THQ receptionist. :p
Given this, allow me to elucidate Solus's plans a little bit:
THQ is not in the best financial straights, and Freespace as a franchise doesn't have quite the promise of huge bucks as it once did- and this is before considering the fact that the entire space dogfight genere has been a dark horse since after the Wing Commander era. Witness the thread right below this one about how "Space games being dead." Getting THQ to part with the Freespace franchise for a low amount, or even a percentage of any profits, is not entirely out of the question.
Volition is another matter; the denizens of this forum are probably more familiar then I on how willing they would be to divulge to the new devteam their FS3 plots and preliminary writings.
As for the devteam: the making of Freespace 3 is not likely to be a tremendous financial success, but it would garner some attention, especially seeing as it'd essentially be an indie team taking over a well known, if "old school," franchise. FS has always had a legend bigger then it's actual profit potential. That kind of thing appeals directly to advanced university students in the field of game design, and perhaps recent grads, hoping to make their names known and break into the industry. They would certainly have the skills, and the motivation to work on a project that would garner them recognition, which would probably be more incentive then the inevitable contract for a percentage of any potential earnings.
If some reasonably dedicated volunteers with the proper motivation could be pulled together, a website for co-ordination and PR assembled, and a legal company made, getting attention from (some of the smaller) gaming magazines might not be out of the question.
Actually making the game is, of course, a whole can of worms on it's own. But lets take this brainstorm one step at a time.
Those of you who have actually made game mods are likely executing epic facepalms at the moment, since you know just how hard it is to keep a mod project alive, to say nothing of a devteam for a whole new product. Your input in this matter I expect to be especially crucial. Managing a project is just as vital as finding talent.
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*munches popcorn*
Cause that's all this is going to be, good entertainment.
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I don't think it'll ever be FS3 if :v: doesn't make it, and I'd rather see the game released as open source completely. I'm behind you, but not for FS3. I don't think it'd be FS3, and it would nullify the work of all involved in FSO campaigns. (all of these post-Capella campaigns would become non-canon.)
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I don't think it'll ever be FS3 if :v: doesn't make it, and I'd rather see the game released as open source completely. I'm behind you, but not for FS3. I don't think it'd be FS3, and it would nullify the work of all involved in FSO campaigns. (all of these post-Capella campaigns would become non-canon.)
We both know V is not going to make it. I do, however, intend that if we manage to make it to that point, to make it completely open-source. I think that it's even possible that if I could acquire the rights from THQ, that V would be more than willing to help. It's their baby, even more so than ours.
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You are doomed.
You shall be cast into the void that awaits Derek Smart and all like him!
(You think I'm kidding, hmm? Sucker.)
EDIT: Actually, you're quite wrong. Without the involvement of :v: this is, and will forever be, some whacko fan project.
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You are doomed.
You shall be cast into the void that awaits Derek Smart and all like him!
(You think I'm kidding, hmm? Sucker.)
EDIT: Actually, you're quite wrong. Without the involvement of :v: this is, and will forever be, some whacko fan project.
Hehehehe, is Derek Smart the guy that did the Battlecruiser games?
In any case, I am truly hoping that I can get some people at :v: involved. Like I said, that's one of the things that I'd love to see happen.
Wacko, maybe. But cast your mind to the person who called a coin toss for the side, and his friend asked "Why did you call it for the side? There's no way you'll make it!"
Ah, but think of the victory! :D
If you're going to aim anywhere, I'm aiming high.
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Hehehehe, is Derek Smart the guy that did the Battlecruiser games?
Go read the classics section.
I completely back the open-source thingy, but I don't think FS3 is a good idea. Simply put: Creative opinion. Not everyone'll have the same ideas, half of them will refuse to work on it on the grounds that :v: isn't making it, and the rest will end up being put under massive amounts of pressure.
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Hmmm, I'd like to think of this working, but really, there a few reasons why this is going to fall apart
- Indecision over storyline
- Everyone wanting to have a part
to name a few
One thing I really stress is having the original writers, FRED-ing is something you can recruit a helluva lot of people to do. I personally would rather we start a petition and somehow get 20,000~100,000 signatures, because at least that way it looks like it's going to garner a helluva lot of moneyzz.
EDIT: Cole beat me to it :P
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This has been discussed many times before, and most people think it'd be a bad idea.
I'm not trying to be a dick, but I really think it'll create bad feelings. Full open-source would be nice, but as we've discussed before, not really necessary ATM.
It's good that you're going through the community first, I respect that.
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Yeah, but if somehow you do get people from :v: behind you, I'm all for you, because as you might have realised, Volition is the real authority with this. We can't dispute what they do, as you said, this is also their baby.
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Hmmm, I'd like to think of this working, but really, there a few reasons why this is going to fall apart
- Indecision over storyline
- Everyone wanting to have a part
to name a few
One thing I really stress is having the original writers, FRED-ing is something you can recruit a helluva lot of people to do. I personally would rather we start a petition and somehow get 20,000~100,000 signatures, because at least that way it looks like it's going to garner a helluva lot of moneyzz.
EDIT: Cole beat me to it :P
Well, again, the two problems you state I really think I could possibly fix. First off, the storyline? Again, like I said, I want to get :v: involved, very much so, even if it is just "buying the script" from them. I think they'd really be more receptive if there was a serious effort towards acquiring the FS3 rights.
Everyone wanting to have a part- that's not quite as easy to fix, however, I hope to keep quality throughout the whole projects with including university students, and my general ability to be a complete asshole and let people know they suck, no, you can't have a part, go away and stay away from my house.
So, I get the general idea that if I can somehow work some magic and get :v: to be behind us, the community here would also support us?
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Well yes, if you somehow get all the money, acquire the rights, and manage to get :v: to do it, then power to you. You would have done something worth bragging about.
Though right now it's sounding like a pipe dream more than anything else, IMO.
As for "buying the script", that's assuming they have a script to begin with.
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Yeah, keep us updated on the :v: front. As soon as people hear :v: backed it we'll all be behind you.
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As for "buying the script", that's assuming they have a script to begin with.
Well, if they don't, I'll just say they do, and they gave it to me, so there won't be any *****ing about canon/non-canon :D
...well, as long as I can write :p
I should hopefully hear from :v: at the earliest Tuesday, if not, I'll keep you updated. :D
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As for "buying the script", that's assuming they have a script to begin with.
Well, if they don't, I'll just say they do, and they gave it to me, so there won't be any *****ing about canon/non-canon :D
You probably shouldn't have told anyone that, and just do it, if you are going to at all. Though I honestly hope you don't.
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Does a game that legally has the name FreeSpace 3 somehow make it better? I'm just unsure what the whole point of this is.
Oh and keep going, this is fun to listen to.
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As for "buying the script", that's assuming they have a script to begin with.
Well, if they don't, I'll just say they do, and they gave it to me, so there won't be any *****ing about canon/non-canon :D
You probably shouldn't have told anyone that, and just do it.
True, but there's always the third option. "**** you guys, we have the rights nao, and we're totally going to ruin the storyline with bad writing"
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Does a game that legally has the name FreeSpace 3 somehow make it better? I'm just unsure what the whole point of this is.
Oh and keep going, this is fun to listen to.
That's my opinion in a nutshell. Why do we need FS3? Why aren't all of these amazing community interpretations good enough?
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I can foresee a horrible end to this thread. And I'm not a psychic by any means.
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I mean do these guys want to tell a story or do they want to tell ANY story?
If they want to tell a story, just make it. There is no reason to jump through all the hoops of making it "legal"
If this is about making FreeSpace 3, whatever it is, there are surely better ways to spend the money, time and effort.
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Guys, constructive comments only please, it's like every third post is 'Oh God, this thread's going to explode!', let's not make self-fulfilling prophecies ;)
I'm not certain [V] would be willing to part with the IP to be honest, they made it quite clear during Smarts' little Messiah Complex that they had no plans to do so anyway, they'd take quite a bit of persuading to change that decision.
That said, sensible discussion is harmless.
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ohh we all thought about this... but then after some time passes we all start to agree on something... if there's gonna be an FS3 then and only then it should come from :v: and only :v:
sorry man, but hey! I'll help you... not money of course, since I have none at the moment.
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Really, I don't see what Freespace 3 can offer except for a canon plot ending. The game engine won't be much different than the one we have here, just as how FS1 and FS2 played virtually the same, and the graphics upgrades that would be done for FS3 would be just as well suited for FS2 (unless you happen to own a Radeon that doesn't cooperate with shaders). Oh, and we might get some canon ships to go along with the deal.
So, a canon story and some new canon ships are all we can expect from starting an FS3 project. Why don't we just get/forge a script and see if volition had any concept arts for FS3 ships and go from there?
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Why aren't all of these amazing community interpretations good enough?
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Guys, constructive comments only please, it's like every third post is 'Oh God, this thread's going to explode!', let's not make self-fulfilling prophecies ;)
I'm not certain [V] would be willing to part with the IP to be honest, they made it quite clear during Smarts' little Messiah Complex that they had no plans to do so anyway, they'd take quite a bit of persuading to change that decision.
That said, sensible discussion is harmless.
That's true, but I do believe that THQ now owns the IP to FS, so it's not impossible. :D
And Kolgena, if I can't get this project off the ground, that's my Plan B. Plan C is a night-time raid on the :v: headquarters.
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Why aren't all of these amazing community interpretations good enough?
Because you quote yourself at night.
(sorry, couldn't resist that one :D)
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Nope. Interplay owns everything except for the FS2 source code.
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I don't think it'll ever be FS3 if :v: doesn't make it, and I'd rather see the game released as open source completely. I'm behind you, but not for FS3. I don't think it'd be FS3, and it would nullify the work of all involved in FSO campaigns. (all of these post-Capella campaigns would become non-canon.)
Nullify? As if the gameplay value of those campaigns would be desecrated if somebody made a new game? Psh. Also, how are the post-Capella campaigns canon now? Did :v: endorse them? Didn't think so.
You are doomed.
You shall be cast into the void that awaits Derek Smart and all like him!
(You think I'm kidding, hmm? Sucker.)
"Calm down pilot! We're vectoring trolls to you now!"
"SEND POSTS!"
Insert Quote
Hmmm, I'd like to think of this working, but really, there a few reasons why this is going to fall apart
- Indecision over storyline
- Everyone wanting to have a part
Who said the community was going to run this project? The writing, design, et al would be done by the devteam, and the devteam would be a reasonably restricted entity. Remember, we're talking about actual money here, and a legally founded company, for a game that is going to receive a commercial release, not some half-assed "lol guies how do I code mod" crap. Additionally, the bulk of the devteam, the people who will be coding the actual game engine, are not very likely to be Freespace fans. The community has a wealth of resources in such areas as texture design, voice acting resources, and the like, but a very large part of the devteam are going to be in it for the personal gain in the form of industry recognition and something shiny for the resume, not as a fan-obsession ode.
And remember, Solus is talking about obtaining the rights to Freespace, by hook or by crook. The rights to Freespace, full stop. If he manages that, FS3 will be his. Not :v:'s, not the communities, his. There will be some executive authority, and he will have the ability to tell poison pill members of the team to go suck dead gophers, if need be. The coders and content creators will be the indispensable members of this company, not the fans who want to sit around waging turf wars over which fanmod/campaign is closest to the Almighty Truth of :v:.
That's my opinion in a nutshell. Why do we need FS3? Why aren't all of these amazing community interpretations good enough?
Yeah guys, a 1998 game engine is good enough for me!
People want FS3 for the same reason they wanted Fallout 3 and Deus Ex 3: because it'd be a new game. Not Freespace 2.5 beta- extra chocolate chips. It's time to take the next step.
Also, depending on the success of this little indie project, it might just spark renewed interest in an effectively dead genere, and lead to the production of more of the type of games we all enjoy. The big companies won't try that themselves because they never take risks, they just pursue the same old dead horses that are guaranteed to make profits. Do you want some new Space Sims or WWII Super Awesome Omaha Beach Assault Band of Brothers FPS #1314316243624?
Insert Quote
Nope. Interplay owns everything except for the FS2 source code.
I would link to that Penny Arcade comic about Bethesda buying the rights to Fallout for a buck at a yard sale, but it'd be just too cruel at this point.
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Nullify? As if the gameplay value of those campaigns would be desecrated if somebody made a new game? Psh. Also, how are the post-Capella campaigns canon now? Did :v: endorse them? Didn't think so.
[...]
"Calm down pilot! We're vectoring trolls to you now!"
"SEND POSTS!"
[...]
Who said the community was going to run this project? The writing, design, et al would be done by the devteam, and the devteam would be a reasonably restricted entity. Remember, we're talking about actual money here, and a legally founded company, for a game that is going to receive a commercial release, not some half-assed "lol guies how do I code mod" crap. Additionally, the bulk of the devteam, the people who will be coding the actual game engine, are not very likely to be Freespace fans. The community has a wealth of resources in such areas as texture design, voice acting resources, and the like, but a very large part of the devteam are going to be in it for the personal gain in the form of industry recognition and something shiny for the resume, not as a fan-obsession ode.
And remember, Solus is talking about obtaining the rights to Freespace, by hook or by crook. The rights to Freespace, full stop. If he manages that, FS3 will be his. Not :v:'s, not the communities, his. There will be some executive authority, and he will have the ability to tell poison pill members of the team to go suck dead gophers, if need be. The coders and content creators will be the indispensable members of this company, not the fans who want to sit around waging turf wars over which fanmod/campaign is closest to the Almighty Truth of :v:.
That's my opinion in a nutshell. Why do we need FS3? Why aren't all of these amazing community interpretations good enough?
Yeah guys, a 1998 game engine is good enough for me!
Insert Quote
Nope. Interplay owns everything except for the FS2 source code.
I would link to that Penny Arcade comic about Bethesda buying the rights to Fallout for a buck at a yard sale, but it'd be just too cruel at this point.
Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.
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Wait, there is a dev team now?
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Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.
Just because you do not like the idea doesn't mean that nobody will play it. :p
Also, BL, no, but the current plan ATM is to shop out the idea to a few colleges, see who would be willing to help out with some of their school's resources, students, etc. in exchange for a bit of the profits and suchlike.
...by a few I mean "all the colleges I can call"
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This could have some potential, but please, don't do it like that. In our minds, :v: will always be associated with FS. I think your objective should be to try and convince :v: that you'll do a good job and therefore they may support you. Hell, I water at the mouth thinking about the things they may send you if they like what they're doing. We'll be supportive of you if you achieve that, but don't try and alienate us like that.
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Also, BL, no, but the current plan ATM is to shop out the idea to a few colleges, see who would be willing to help out with some of their school's resources, students, etc. in exchange for a bit of the profits and suchlike.
...by a few I mean "all the colleges I can call"
Are you going to pay these people?
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Am I right in saying you guys are basically starting a company?
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Am I right in saying you guys are basically starting a company?
If they plan on planning, producing and distributing a game for profit, they damn well should be.
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Am I right in saying you guys are basically starting a company?
If they plan on planning, producing and distributing a game for profit, they damn well should be.
Yes.
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Hmmm.... FreeSpace 2 came out in 1999. Volition became a wholly-owned subsidiary of THQ in 2000.
Let me ask you this: Do you think you're the first noobs to come up with this idea?
Oh, and double your cost-projection for the intellectual property rights. Interplay holds exclusive rights to publish future games in the FreeSpace series, while Volition holds exclusive rights to develop those games. That's why THQ's purchase of Volition was viewed by most of the community as the final and largest nail in FS3's coffin.
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Now I'm getting a real kick, having gone back and read some more of this dreck....
And remember, Solus is talking about obtaining the rights to Freespace, by hook or by crook. The rights to Freespace, full stop. If he manages that, FS3 will be his. Not 's, not the communities, his.
Yes, act like Derek Smart. That will win you some friends. :yes2:
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Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.
The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred."
You, sir, are a glittering gem of hatred.
Every fan community has factions, and battle lines drawn. J.K. Rowling, while insanely popular with her fanbase, still couldn't publish a new book without drawing the rage and hate of millions of fangirls who had their favorite romantic pairing dashed. While millions of her fans tried, with incredible concentration, to give her AIDS with their minds, the fanbase soldiered on nonetheless.
Insert Quote
Am I right in saying you guys are basically starting a company?
Indeed, sir. This is why Solus is also looking to obtain the rights to the game itself; without those you can't even make a brand-new freeware game (like, say, Dwarf Fortress is,) because you're cutting into potential profits for the copyright holders. Going "official" is really the only way to make something with real weight behind it.
Let me ask you this: Do you think you're the first noobs to come up with this idea?
Solus is likely the first noob to actually make a phone call. Internet noobs are long on pipe dreams and short on getting off their duffs and doing anything. A lot of things happen simply because somebody finally stopped talking about it and did it.
And before we get all worked up over this, let me remind you that this is still on the third page of the preliminary brainstorm thread. It's not like anybody's expecting anything at all, yet.
Yes, act like Derek Smart. That will win you some friends.
Yes, because community members that immediately tell Solus to go walk off a pier are clearly going to be indispensable.
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Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.
Just because you do not like the idea doesn't mean that nobody will play it. :p
Also, BL, no, but the current plan ATM is to shop out the idea to a few colleges, see who would be willing to help out with some of their school's resources, students, etc. in exchange for a bit of the profits and suchlike.
...by a few I mean "all the colleges I can call"
You are being rational and asking for our opinions, your dick friend here is the one I don't like, he is DS-ing the whole thing.
Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.
The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred."
You, sir, are a glittering gem of hatred.
The ****? I haven't said a single irrational or dick thing in the whole thread. You on the otherhand are being a right dick
Let me ask you this: Do you think you're the first noobs to come up with this idea?
Solus is likely the first noob to actually make a phone call. Internet noobs are long on pipe dreams and short on getting off their duffs and doing anything. A lot of things happen simply because somebody finally stopped talking about it and did it.
And before we get all worked up over this, let me remind you that this is still on the third page of the preliminary brainstorm thread. It's not like anybody's expecting anything at all, yet.
Yes, act like Derek Smart. That will win you some friends.
Yes, because community members that immediately tell Solus to go walk off a pier are clearly going to be indispensable.
I notice you single out the single person who's said a negative non-constructive thing, who also happens to be one of the most the most senior members in this thread. I'm getting pissed, call me immature as a handy way to straw-man, but **** the **** off if you're going to be a dick to everyone, no one wants that.
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Solus is likely the first noob to actually make a phone call.
Ooooo. A phone call. I'm impressed. My heart is palpitating now. FS3 is a done deal! Huzzah!
Get back to me when you cut a check and hire a team.
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Give him till tuesday, when they get in touch with the upper echelons.
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Also, BL, no, but the current plan ATM is to shop out the idea to a few colleges, see who would be willing to help out with some of their school's resources, students, etc. in exchange for a bit of the profits and suchlike.
...by a few I mean "all the colleges I can call"
Are you going to pay these people?
Whatever we can afford, yes. As I said before, this project is unlikey to be a massive commercial success; the real draw for the devteam will be the recognition of their skill and talent in actually producing a game. Even if the project is never finished, even a functional, if ugly, beta (or alpha) will be something impressive for their resume as they attempt to break into the industry. A contract giving them a percentage of any profits would be effectively gravy, since those profits aren't guaranteed to appear.
Interplay holds exclusive rights to publish future games in the FreeSpace series, while Volition holds exclusive rights to develop those games. That's why THQ's purchase of Volition was viewed by most of the community as the final and largest nail in FS3's coffin.
This just further reinforces the conclusion that actually getting one's hands on the rights is probably going to involve a contract that gives a hefty percentage of any profits to said companies. Either the project is mildly successful and they get some money, or it flops and they're out a grand total of nothing. And it's not like either of these companies are really on fire at the moment.
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If this isn't going to make a lot of money as you said, you're going to be knee-deep in debt, like many other games that don't make it, especially since we're in an economic crisis here and people are careful what they throw bills at.
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This just further reinforces the conclusion that actually getting one's hands on the rights is probably going to involve a contract that gives a hefty percentage of any profits to said companies. Either the project is mildly successful and they get some money, or it flops and they're out a grand total of nothing. And it's not like either of these companies are really on fire at the moment.
Interplay, for one, isn't going to hand you anything on the chance that they'll get something in return. Fallout was sold while Interplay was at its most desperate moment (that is, the middle of bankruptcy for royalties. But it wasn't that simple, was it? No, Interplay required an advance against those royalties of around about $1.2 million. Now that Interplay has a leg to stand on, however weak it may be, they don't have to sell you anything, if you can't make an offer that they like.
Keep making your phone calls. Until you've got a fat wad of cash, with which to do your purchasing, I'm not holding my breath.
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I notice you single out the single person who's said a negative non-constructive thing, who also happens to be one of the most the most senior members in this thread. I'm getting pissed, call me immature as a handy way to straw-man, but **** the **** off if you're going to be a dick to everyone, no one wants that.
You've actually been pretty open-minded; it's just that I resented you comparing me to Derek Smart immensely. Which is a perfect example of a straw-man attack, by the way. The community in this scenario represents the consumer, the market, and what they want, feature, thematic and story wise, is what we must produce, but they do not "own" Freespace. Refusing to drop an idea because a few people say NO U isn't exactly the equivalent of ringing up the hardlight forums and telling everybody that Freespace 3 will feature a BFG-9000 and Snakes on an Orion, canon be cursed.
Give him till tuesday, when they get in touch with the upper echelons.
Thank you. We're fully aware that this entire scheme will most likely explode like Capella come Tuesday, but you never know until you try. At the very least, an actual phone call to Interplay/ :v:will probably interest the community, win, lose, or draw.
Personally I wouldn't have made a thread until all the calls were made and the potential assessed, but Solus doesn't work that way. He gets an idea, and he pursues it immediately, which is percisely why the man has far more creative work and personal projects actually accomplished then I ever will. Most of the people hating on us in this thread probably think we're already flipping through Hummer ads already.
Keep making your phone calls. Until you've got a fat wad of cash, with which to do your purchasing, I'm not holding my breath.
Neither are we.
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Sir, unless you won the lottery and are willing to throw away 1-2 MILLION in development costs (with no expectation of recovering it), I think you need a serious does of reality (TM).
As probably one of the most open-minded people on the board I look at what and how you posted and am seriously reminded or Derek Smart, or the equally Infamous Ronald D Moore in how they treat both franchises and fanbases.
While you might not have had that intention, or even realized it could be interpreted as such, well it has.
(Strike 1)...
Maybe you haven't thought it through before you posted, but doing most of the critical things behind the scenes FIRST would be better off than simply coming to the community as a lurker and relative unknown and declaring "I'm going to own your holy grail."
That comes off as rather dickish.
(Strike 2)...
Your already 2 strikes down and have 1 out left.
So this is how things stand, you may well in fact have done all you claimed and eventually we'll see an official announcement from THQ and Interplay (not you) about the change, but until that day I'm putting this subject out of my mind.
As for me, if I were able I would have:
1: Secured the rights secretly.
2: use my lawyer to incorporate and prepare NDA's
3: If I were to involve community members they would be asked via PM to sign NDA's in person and then I would come to them and tell them everything. I have no skills but am intelligent enough to know WHAT made FS1/2 such awesome games for their genre and what the fan base wants.
4: ACTION PLAN!!!
a.) Decide on an engine that gives us what we want and will need to add in the future with a trade off on graphic capability. Game play is more important than mere window dressing IMHO.
b.) Once we have an engine that can perfrom to our expectations (OK'd by the coders) it time to write the script. Trying to stay as faithful to V as possible. Create FRED 3 and other tools for modders (new powerful HOW TO programs and debuggers, no more mysterious error messages!) I would very much test the **** out of these so If I cant cause errors it's almost idiot proof! (oh wait a sec) :lol:
c) After the Script is done and ok'd it's time to get the real resources made and call in the Modelers/texturers to change out all the placeholder stuff (fs1/2 units) we used ofr preliminary testing.
D.) Call in the voice actors. (NDA's for them also of course). BUG TESTING
E.) Start creating promotional materials both in and out of game. Then start teasers for the usual game mags. MORE BUG TESTING. Oh and NOW would be the time to come to teh community in a respectful way and SHOW them the exclusive teasers and say how much you love th franchise and worked had to be as loyal to V as you were to the fans (being a "fan" yourself).
F.) Tv/movie trailers... Critical. Interplay did **** to promote FS2 and it hurt exposure badly... Nuff said.
g.) know that if a FS3 ever did come out for a PC, it would have so much riding on it for the Space fighter genre it's not even funny. We're talking epic win or fail territory.
H.) Freelancer 2 failed cause MICRO$OFT has no confidence in their own franchise or the SF genre... Are you really ballsy and confident enough to attempt something even a corp who can throw money and lose it on a project of that magnitude won't touch again?
I tried to be as respectful and accurate as a Veteran Noob of my caliber can be...
This was your reality check, and I bid you good day! ;)
[edit] yes I tried to correct any errors so before anyone opens thier mouth.
a.) Late in life dyslexia
b.) I survived double cataracts at age 35, but now 3 years later my vision is apparently going again... (So any wise remarks are ignored)...
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You've actually been pretty open-minded; it's just that I resented you comparing me to Derek Smart immensely. Which is a perfect example of a straw-man attack, by the way. The community in this scenario represents the consumer, the market, and what they want, feature, thematic and story wise, is what we must produce, but they do not "own" Freespace. Refusing to drop an idea because a few people say NO U isn't exactly the equivalent of ringing up the hardlight forums and telling everybody that Freespace 3 will feature a BFG-9000 and Snakes on an Orion, canon be cursed.
Thanks for that, I'd probably resent that as well. I'm only trying to say that this argument has been had before, and most community members (as opposed to a few) said "NO U".
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Maybe you haven't thought it through before you posted, but doing most of the critical things behind the scenes FIRST would be better off than simply coming to the community as a lurker and relative unknown and declaring "I'm going to own your holy grail."
The entire thing is still entirely theoretical, but nooooo we're already talking about how we're going to take Freespace and rape it, desecrate everything that was once wonderful about it, turn the Shivans into fluffy bunnies and Alpha One into a Red Cross aid worker, and laugh at the screams and lamentations of the fans.
I explained what this theoretical company would be- an entity with focus, structure, and thus the ability to get things done, not a pure fan-collaboration project that is entirely dependent on the tender mercies and attention spans of that nebulous entity known as the Community.
So this is how things stand, you may well in fact have done all you claimed
It [is] just two phone calls. Nobody's pretending that we have an army of code monkeys all ready and set to go.
As for me, if I were able i would have:
1: Secured the rights secretly.
2: use my lawyer to incorporate and prepare NDA's
3: If I were to involve comunity members they would be asked via PM to sign NDA's in person and then I would come tot hem and tell them everything. I have no skills but am intelligent enough to know WHAT made FS1/2 such awesoem games for their genre and what the fanbase wants.
Why would anybody invest all that effort before at least gauging the interest of one of the possible market demographics?
H.) Freelancer 2 failed cause MICRO$OFT has no confidence in their own franchise or the SF genre... Are you really ballsy and confident enough to attempt something even a corp who can throw money and lose it on a project of that magnitude won't touch again?
Microsoft has an amazing talent at taking free money and screwing it up in the most spectacular way possible. No company is immune to this, and the larger a company is, the more resources it has to blow and the less focus and quality control it has to regulate it. There's a reason indie game developers exist.
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H.) Freelancer 2 failed cause MICRO$OFT has no confidence in their own franchise or the SF genre... Are you really ballsy and confident enough to attempt something even a corp who can throw money and lose it on a project of that magnitude won't touch again?
Do I need to mention FSX?
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Hey Blue, could you pass the popcorn?
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The entire thing is still entirely theoretical, but nooooo we're already talking about how we're going to take Freespace and rape it, desecrate everything that was once wonderful about it, turn the Shivans into fluffy bunnies and Alpha One into a Red Cross aid worker, and laugh at the screams and lamentations of the fans.
I explained what this theoretical company would be- an entity with focus, structure, and thus the ability to get things done, not a pure fan-collaboration project that is entirely dependent on the tender mercies and attention spans of that nebulous entity known as the Community.
You have no money, no company, no plan, no skills and no team.
Where would all this money come from to pay for the rights and development?
Your proposed staff would have no idea what the game is and probably wouldn't even like (or maybe even played) a space sim.
You're not even seriously attempting to turn a profit so yes I could quite understand the general feeling of "this guy is gonna screw it up". The odds of you pulling out a quality game better than the fan made ones are slim.
Why would anybody invest all that effort before at least gauging the interest of one of the possible market demographics?
Because why would anyone put faith in a guy (or guys) with essentially nothing? The guys who make fan made campaigns have more skills and assets for the project.
You literally want to code this game from the ground up. No engine to work on, no nothing. The fact that you're shocked and amazed people who have played with and worked with the previous installments for over a decade don't put much faith in the plan just shows how quickly you could nosedive the project and potentially ruin any future serious attempt at it.
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Why not just make a spiritual successor to FreeSpace and get the ****ing thing over with.
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so if i have this clear you are going to buy the rights to use the fs3 name , from interplay, and any developer rights "V" have and from this you are going to develop FS3 so you have a better chance of getting a job if the **** hits the fan.......
if you have the skills to develop a whole new source code an effective and intelligent ai and mod all of the ships etc , what are you lacking ,use this cash to develop your own space sim ...
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Why not just make a whole new game? Why waste the money buying the rights to a decade old game when you can just create a new universe. You're already starting from scratch and are attempting to cut corners.
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Whatever we can afford, yes. As I said before, this project is unlikey to be a massive commercial success; the real draw for the devteam will be the recognition of their skill and talent in actually producing a game. Even if the project is never finished, even a functional, if ugly, beta (or alpha) will be something impressive for their resume as they attempt to break into the industry. A contract giving them a percentage of any profits would be effectively gravy, since those profits aren't guaranteed to appear.
So if this is your primary goal, why not create your own intellectual property from scratch and use it as resume material? Why in God's name would you make an effort to acquire the rights to produce a sequel to a ten-year-old game that, to be brutally honest, utterly flopped in retail? I'm not seeing any tangible benefit from what you're proposing. And that's to say nothing of how you chose to broach the subject with the core fanbase for your project, which, if I may be brutally honest again, does come across as rather arrogant and dismissive.
And to everyone in here, can the insults/flames/what have you. I know I'm not the only one with mod status who's going to be watching this thread like a hawk.
(Heh, this is moving fast...)
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(Heh, this is moving fast...)
If you're gonna jump on the dogpile, you gotta be faster than that.
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Hey Blue, could you pass the popcorn?
Live through the thrice-monthly "OMG WHERE IS LARGO'S COOL THING" thread over at the Megatokyo forums, and then you can speak of popcorn.
I'm familiar with those eternal threads, the same tired topic brought up again and again by the ever-present "n00borz." I've also seen threads with potential messily murdered by the first twenty posters who saw the topic title, categorized it as Yet Another XXX Thread, hit fast reply and went "lolol" without actually reading the OP.
Every time you do that, God makes another mission with only Synaptic Bombs for secondaries.
Please, think of the Ursas.
You have no money, no company, no plan, no skills and no team.
Where would all this money come from to pay for the rights and development?
Your proposed staff would have no idea what the game is and probably wouldn't even like (or maybe even played) a space sim.
.
I think I've already addressed the nature of the team, the project, and our maximum expectations from it. tl;dr, not much.
You literally want to code this game from the ground up. No engine to work on, no nothing.
Thank you, Captain Obvious. o7 I'll worry about the magnitude of such a project after we miraculously beat the 95% chance that :v: will tell us to die in a fire. It's not like we've got a paypal account set up for donations already. They question Solus posed to the community is exactly the question he's going to pose to :v: come Tuesday: "IF I actually rode in the door on a magical unicorn, would you consider it?" And the only answer he's expecting is either "um, if," or "EXPIRE IN A MOST PAINFUL MANNER SIRRAH." It is an inquiry into what support could be expected should a magical unicorn be obtained.
You're not even seriously attempting to turn a profit
And yet you apparently think that we're expecting to pull a full-fledged engine out of our rear, like conjurers.
Insert Quote
Why not just make a spiritual successor to FreeSpace and get the ****ing thing over with.
First useful comment in the last ten posts. :/
A further elucidation of my thoughts on this project can be broken down into several questions, the major ones being: what incentive will the devteam have to work on this project, rather then join the devteam of an already-existing freeware game that would have similar demands, and opportunities for them to prove their talent? How will the project mature if it survives to the rough alpha of the core component, the engine- after the main incentive and motivation of the devteam has been fulfilled? (Considered in light of the fact that :v: is only likely to give permission for an attempted development from which they will derive royalties, while maintaining their copyright- essentially treating the devteam as subcontracted labor.) At each stage of development, what is the likelihood that :v: will decide to take over the project and finish it themselves? How will this effect the motivations of the students compromising the devteam? What will be the legal status of the work done should the project fail at any given point in the development; vis a vis the communities right to use and build off it? What would the legal dynamics between :v:, the company, and the devteam be like at each point of the project, especially any theoretical tipping point where some actual modest profit would be feasible, rather then just a fancy hobby project to show off to potential employers? Will this tipping point come before, or after, the incentive of resume-candy has been fufilled, potentially leaving a devteam with a huge amount of work and only a nebulous promise of a return?
This is just the tip of the iceberg. You could say that I am slightly aware of the magnitude of the task.
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I do believe Takashi already laid claim to this endeavor, furthermore if I recollect correctly Takashi said he worked for Volition. Thats stiff competition good luck with your project.
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I do believe Takashi already laid claim to this endeavor, furthermore if I recollect correctly Takashi said he worked for Volition. Thats stiff competition good luck with your project.
I find this information fascinating. Have thee a link?
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StarSlayer's kidding... sort of.
Takashi technically did all that StarSlayer have posted, but he was a liar.
As for this project, I do like the idea. At least you accept that your chances of success are slim. Lots of people here are quite arrogant.
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have you realised that the way you explain things is patronising.......
most ppl who come here dont announce that they suffer from erectile dysfunction quite so quickly , do us all a favour and let your partner speak for your project.......
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I think I've already addressed the nature of the team, the project, and our maximum expectations from it. tl;dr, not much.
So why do you want to do it then? Why start big?
Thank you, Captain Obvious. o7 I'll worry about the magnitude of such a project after we miraculously beat the 95% chance that :v: will tell us to die in a fire. It's not like we've got a paypal account set up for donations already. They question Solus posed to the community is exactly the question he's going to pose to :v: come Tuesday: "IF I actually rode in the door on a magical unicorn, would you consider it?" And the only answer he's expecting is either "um, if," or "EXPIRE IN A MOST PAINFUL MANNER SIRRAH." It is an inquiry into what support could be expected should a magical unicorn be obtained.
You want to head to :v: and work on getting the rights AND THEN decide on working if it's even feasible?
But to answer the question: no, no I wouldn't want you to. I have no idea who you are or what experience you have in games. You've offered no plan and no previous work. Why should anyone be glad?
And yet you apparently think that we're expecting to pull a full-fledged engine out of our rear, like conjurers.
Then how exactly do you plan on making a game? If you're not going to use the FS code, what then?
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Then how exactly do you plan on making a game? If you're not going to use the FS code, what then?
He's explained that one: All those coders, who will happily work for no pay, are going to make it for him. The plan, what little of one exists, anyway, has more holes in it than Harry Whittington's face (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney_hunting_incident).
I've been bashed for catagorizing this as "just another FS3 pipe dream thread," but that's exactly what it is. There's no plan, no resources, and even if Volition and Interplay both fork over their parts of the FS IP, I doubt there'd be enough follow-through to last the years necessary to build the game. I got tired of seeing these posts pop up since before moderators lifted the overarching ban on FS3 threads and indeed before there had been an overarching ban on FS3 threads. That ban got put in place because the whole community had been tired of the derth of half-wits coming onto the boards, be they here or at Volition Watch, shouting, "I'll make FS3! I really will! Really! I made a phone call! I sent an e-mail! I can do it! I'm your savior!" Yes, banning all discussion on the topic of FS3 was probably too draconian, but it saved a lot of hassle of pointing out that they were just getting the hopes of new members up over nothing.
And yes, Demetrious, that's what you and Solus have presented. You haven't the money to buy the IP; you haven't the team to develop the game; you haven't a plan to go about developing a game, and you have no experience in the field of developing games. If your phone calls get past the secretaries, I'll be amazed, but even in that case, you'll be expected to demonstrate that you have the capital and the talent to deliver on your promises and make the bargain worth their while. You've already demonstrated to the forum that you don't. Why do you persist in insisting that you'll get so much as the time of day from anybody at the offices of Volition or Interplay?
If you really want to persist in this endeavor, then do so in silence, as professional development houses do, until you're near release and have something substantial to show for your efforts. The more you chat about your vacuous ambitions here, the more you will break down the extremely thin venir of compotence with which you arrived.
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Why doesn't [V] work together with Valve, and THEN get the rights. Then [V] has a publisher that actually doesn't believe in "just before christmas" deadlines, and graphics > gameplay. The game can get advertised trough steam (Which is completely free for Valve, since they own it), which ensures that all those Half Life, Portal, and TF2 players actually get to see it...
Plus, Steam has the nice advantage that games do not get removed from the shells when they do not sell well in the first 2 weeks of publishment. Hear-say advertisement usually kicks in later, and all those people looking for the game suddenly find out that it can not be bought anywhere.
(Yes, I am a Valve fanboy.)
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Valve doesn't need more to do.
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Why doesn't [V] work together with Valve, and THEN get the rights.
Well, it just doesn't make good business sense for any of the involved parties.
1) Interplay isn't likely to sell the publishing rights of anything to THQ, a competing entity (which owns Volition in its entirety), unless they get exceptionally desperate again, and even then, there's more lucrative properties to be sold than FreeSpace.
2) THQ isn't going to, in turn, license any of their properties to Valve, another competing entity.
That's not to mention the fact that there's more money to be had in cloning Grand Theft Auto and Gears of War. Bear in mind that this monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAWX) is about as close as you can get to flight simulation and expect to remain profitable in the current gaming environment, as unfortunate as that may be.
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There's a small possibility as THQ apparently has a 50/50 chance of going bankrupt. The financial success of DoW II and Blood on the Sand will determine their chances.
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I bought Blood on the Sand. Pretty decent actually, for those of you who like shooting **** while listening to hip-hop.
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First and foremost, I am not a rich man. I want somebody to help me with creating a website (or hell, having something even on HL) that I could pimp out to collect donations with.
Secondly, if the first step succeeds, I've only got a few skillsets I can apply to game creation, and the community here being experienced modders could possibly help me out here. I know you guys want to see a FS3. I want to see a FS3.
And if this succeeds, this will be a MAJOR step for game development anywhere- and we will be the pioneers. Once we get a website off the ground, my first order of business will be to pimp out the project everywhere I can- Game Informer, PC Gamer, etc.
Maybe you should check the other buried "Lets make FS3" threads first. IIRC, some of them had plans with much more credibility than this.
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Damn. I missed it.
What's going on?
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Well anyway, lets remember this thread for the future.
I think I typed out a damn good strategy from the NOOB perspective and dammit, next time this subject comes up they can go through my checklist and see if they are not totally clueless...
I don't like to repeat myself.
;7
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Dunno if this is the right spot, but how easy exactly is it for the SCP team to code in new gameplay features?
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OK, in light of Titan's post I think this is as good a time as any to re-structure this discussion. My recommendation is to close this thread and move the discussion to something like Grognards, where admins and project leads can get down to business about the seriousness of this endeavour. IF, as soluslunes has stated, this is a serious attempt, then it deserves serious, moderated discussion--if not, then no harm done.
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I'm still not certain how serious this is. I'd suggest people leave it alone until Thursday anyway so I might as well lock the thread for now.
Dunno if this is the right spot, but how easy exactly is it for the SCP team to code in new gameplay features?
That's like asking how long is a piece of string.