[Demetrious]

Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.

The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred."

You, sir, are a glittering gem of hatred.

Every fan community has factions, and battle lines drawn. J.K. Rowling, while insanely popular with her fanbase, still couldn't publish a new book without drawing the rage and hate of millions of fangirls who had their favorite romantic pairing dashed. While millions of her fans tried, with incredible concentration, to give her AIDS with their minds, the fanbase soldiered on nonetheless.

Insert Quote
Am I right in saying you guys are basically starting a company?

Indeed, sir. This is why Solus is also looking to obtain the rights to the game itself; without those you can't even make a brand-new freeware game (like, say, Dwarf Fortress is,) because you're cutting into potential profits for the copyright holders. Going "official" is really the only way to make something with real weight behind it.

Let me ask you this:  Do you think you're the first noobs to come up with this idea?

Solus is likely the first noob to actually make a phone call. Internet noobs are long on pipe dreams and short on getting off their duffs and doing anything. A lot of things happen simply because somebody finally stopped talking about it and did it.

And before we get all worked up over this, let me remind you that this is still on the third page of the preliminary brainstorm thread. It's not like anybody's expecting anything at all, yet.

Yes, act like Derek Smart.  That will win you some friends. 

Yes, because community members that immediately tell Solus to go walk off a pier are clearly going to be indispensable.

[colecampbell666]

Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.

Just because you do not like the idea doesn't mean that nobody will play it.

Also, BL, no, but the current plan ATM is to shop out the idea to a few colleges, see who would be willing to help out with some of their school's resources, students, etc. in exchange for a bit of the profits and suchlike.

...by a few I mean "all the colleges I can call"

You are being rational and asking for our opinions, your dick friend here is the one I don't like, he is DS-ing the whole thing.

Hi Derek. If you alienate the community, no one will play it.

The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred."

You, sir, are a glittering gem of hatred.

The ****? I haven't said a single irrational or dick thing in the whole thread. You on the otherhand are being a right dick

Let me ask you this:  Do you think you're the first noobs to come up with this idea?

Solus is likely the first noob to actually make a phone call. Internet noobs are long on pipe dreams and short on getting off their duffs and doing anything. A lot of things happen simply because somebody finally stopped talking about it and did it.

And before we get all worked up over this, let me remind you that this is still on the third page of the preliminary brainstorm thread. It's not like anybody's expecting anything at all, yet.

Yes, act like Derek Smart.  That will win you some friends. 

Yes, because community members that immediately tell Solus to go walk off a pier are clearly going to be indispensable.

I notice you single out the single person who's said a negative non-constructive thing, who also happens to be one of the most the most senior members in this thread. I'm getting pissed, call me immature as a handy way to straw-man, but **** the **** off if you're going to be a dick to everyone, no one wants that.

[BlueFlames]

Solus is likely the first noob to actually make a phone call.

Ooooo.  A phone call.  I'm impressed.  My heart is palpitating now.  FS3 is a done deal!  Huzzah!




Get back to me when you cut a check and hire a team.

[Dilmah G]

Give him till tuesday, when they get in touch with the upper echelons.

[Demetrious]

Also, BL, no, but the current plan ATM is to shop out the idea to a few colleges, see who would be willing to help out with some of their school's resources, students, etc. in exchange for a bit of the profits and suchlike.

...by a few I mean "all the colleges I can call"

Are you going to pay these people?

Whatever we can afford, yes. As I said before, this project is unlikey to be a massive commercial success; the real draw for the devteam will be the recognition of their skill and talent in actually producing a game. Even if the project is never finished, even a functional, if ugly, beta (or alpha) will be something impressive for their resume as they attempt to break into the industry. A contract giving them a percentage of any profits would be effectively gravy, since those profits aren't guaranteed to appear.

Interplay holds exclusive rights to publish future games in the FreeSpace series, while Volition holds exclusive rights to develop those games.  That's why THQ's purchase of Volition was viewed by most of the community as the final and largest nail in FS3's coffin.

This just further reinforces the conclusion that actually getting one's hands on the rights is probably going to involve a contract that gives a hefty percentage of any profits to said companies. Either the project is mildly successful and they get some money, or it flops and they're out a grand total of nothing. And it's not like either of these companies are really on fire at the moment.

[Dilmah G]

If this isn't going to make a lot of money as you said, you're going to be knee-deep in debt, like many other games that don't make it, especially since we're in an economic crisis here and people are careful what they throw bills at.

[BlueFlames]

This just further reinforces the conclusion that actually getting one's hands on the rights is probably going to involve a contract that gives a hefty percentage of any profits to said companies. Either the project is mildly successful and they get some money, or it flops and they're out a grand total of nothing. And it's not like either of these companies are really on fire at the moment.

Interplay, for one, isn't going to hand you anything on the chance that they'll get something in return.  Fallout was sold while Interplay was at its most desperate moment (that is, the middle of bankruptcy for royalties.  But it wasn't that simple, was it?  No, Interplay required an advance against those royalties of around about $1.2 million.  Now that Interplay has a leg to stand on, however weak it may be, they don't have to sell you anything, if you can't make an offer that they like.

Keep making your phone calls.  Until you've got a fat wad of cash, with which to do your purchasing, I'm not holding my breath.

[Demetrious]

I notice you single out the single person who's said a negative non-constructive thing, who also happens to be one of the most the most senior members in this thread. I'm getting pissed, call me immature as a handy way to straw-man, but **** the **** off if you're going to be a dick to everyone, no one wants that.

You've actually been pretty open-minded; it's just that I resented you comparing me to Derek Smart immensely. Which is a perfect example of a straw-man attack, by the way. The community in this scenario represents the consumer, the market, and what they want, feature, thematic and story wise, is what we must produce, but they do not "own" Freespace. Refusing to drop an idea because a few people say NO U isn't exactly the equivalent of ringing up the hardlight forums and telling everybody that Freespace 3 will feature a BFG-9000 and Snakes on an Orion, canon be cursed.

Give him till tuesday, when they get in touch with the upper echelons.

Thank you. We're fully aware that this entire scheme will most likely explode like Capella come Tuesday, but you never know until you try. At the very least, an actual phone call to Interplay/ :v:will probably interest the community, win, lose, or draw.

Personally I wouldn't have made a thread until all the calls were made and the potential assessed, but Solus doesn't work that way. He gets an idea, and he pursues it immediately, which is percisely why the man has far more creative work and personal projects actually accomplished then I ever will. Most of the people hating on us in this thread probably think we're already flipping through Hummer ads already.

Keep making your phone calls.  Until you've got a fat wad of cash, with which to do your purchasing, I'm not holding my breath.

Neither are we.

[Getter Robo G]

Sir, unless you won the lottery and are willing to throw away 1-2 MILLION in development costs (with no expectation of recovering it), I think you need a serious does of reality (TM).

As probably one of the most open-minded people on the board I look at what and how you posted and am seriously reminded or Derek Smart, or the equally Infamous Ronald D Moore in how they treat both franchises and fanbases.

While you might not have had that intention, or even realized it could be interpreted as such, well it has.
(Strike 1)...


Maybe you haven't thought it through before you posted, but doing most of the critical things behind the scenes FIRST would be better off than simply coming to the community as a lurker and relative unknown and declaring "I'm going to own your holy grail."

That comes off as rather dickish.
(Strike 2)...


Your already 2 strikes down and have 1 out left.
So this is how things stand, you may well in fact have done all you claimed and eventually we'll see an official announcement from THQ and Interplay (not you) about the change, but until that day I'm putting this subject out of my mind.


As for me, if I were able I would have:
1: Secured the rights secretly.
2: use my lawyer to incorporate and prepare NDA's
3: If I were to involve community members they would be asked via PM to sign NDA's in person and then I would come to them and tell them everything. I have no skills but am intelligent enough to know WHAT made FS1/2 such awesome games for their genre and what the fan base wants.

4: ACTION PLAN!!!

a.) Decide on an engine that gives us what we want and will need to add in the future with a trade off on graphic capability. Game play is more important than mere window dressing IMHO.

b.) Once we have an engine that can perfrom to our expectations (OK'd by the coders) it time to write the script. Trying to stay as faithful to V as possible. Create FRED 3 and other tools for modders (new powerful HOW TO programs and debuggers, no more mysterious error messages!) I would very much test the **** out of these so If I cant cause errors it's almost idiot proof! (oh wait a sec)  

c) After the Script is done and ok'd it's time to get the real resources made and call in the Modelers/texturers to change out all the placeholder stuff (fs1/2 units) we used ofr preliminary testing.

D.) Call in the voice actors. (NDA's for them also of course). BUG TESTING

E.) Start creating promotional materials both in and out of game. Then start teasers for the usual game mags. MORE BUG TESTING. Oh and NOW would be the time to come to teh community in a respectful way and SHOW them the exclusive teasers and say how much you love th franchise and worked had to be as loyal to V as you were to the fans (being a "fan" yourself).

F.) Tv/movie trailers... Critical. Interplay did **** to promote FS2 and it hurt exposure badly... Nuff said.

g.) know that if a FS3 ever did come out for a PC, it would have so much riding on it for the Space fighter genre it's not even funny. We're talking epic win or fail territory.

H.) Freelancer 2 failed cause MICRO$OFT has no confidence in their own franchise or the SF genre... Are you really ballsy and confident enough to attempt something even a corp who can throw money and lose it on a project of that magnitude won't touch again?


I tried to be as respectful and accurate as a Veteran Noob of my caliber can be...

This was your reality check, and I bid you good day!  



[edit] yes I tried to correct any errors so before anyone opens thier mouth.
a.) Late in life dyslexia
b.) I survived double cataracts at age 35, but now 3 years later my vision is apparently going again... (So any wise remarks are ignored)...

[colecampbell666]

You've actually been pretty open-minded; it's just that I resented you comparing me to Derek Smart immensely. Which is a perfect example of a straw-man attack, by the way. The community in this scenario represents the consumer, the market, and what they want, feature, thematic and story wise, is what we must produce, but they do not "own" Freespace. Refusing to drop an idea because a few people say NO U isn't exactly the equivalent of ringing up the hardlight forums and telling everybody that Freespace 3 will feature a BFG-9000 and Snakes on an Orion, canon be cursed.

Thanks for that, I'd probably resent that as well. I'm only trying to say that this argument has been had before, and most community members (as opposed to a few) said "NO U".

[Demetrious]

Maybe you haven't thought it through before you posted, but doing most of the critical things behind the scenes FIRST would be better off than simply coming to the community as a lurker and relative unknown and declaring "I'm going to own your holy grail."

The entire thing is still entirely theoretical, but nooooo we're already talking about how we're going to take Freespace and rape it, desecrate everything that was once wonderful about it, turn the Shivans into fluffy bunnies and Alpha One into a Red Cross aid worker, and laugh at the screams and lamentations of the fans.

I explained what this theoretical company would be- an entity with focus, structure, and thus the ability to get things done, not a pure fan-collaboration project that is entirely dependent on the tender mercies and attention spans of that nebulous entity known as the Community.

So this is how things stand, you may well in fact have done all you claimed

It [is] just two phone calls. Nobody's pretending that we have an army of code monkeys all ready and set to go.

As for me, if I were able i would have:
1: Secured the rights secretly.
2: use my lawyer to incorporate and prepare NDA's
3: If I were to involve comunity members they would be asked via PM to sign NDA's in person and then I would come tot hem and tell them everything. I have no skills but am intelligent enough to know WHAT made FS1/2 such awesoem games for their genre and what the fanbase wants.

Why would anybody invest all that effort before at least gauging the interest of one of the possible market demographics?

H.) Freelancer 2 failed cause MICRO$OFT has no confidence in their own franchise or the SF genre... Are you really ballsy and confident enough to attempt something even a corp who can throw money and lose it on a project of that magnitude won't touch again?

Microsoft has an amazing talent at taking free money and screwing it up in the most spectacular way possible. No company is immune to this, and the larger a company is, the more resources it has to blow and the less focus and quality control it has to regulate it. There's a reason indie game developers exist.

[portej05]

H.) Freelancer 2 failed cause MICRO$OFT has no confidence in their own franchise or the SF genre... Are you really ballsy and confident enough to attempt something even a corp who can throw money and lose it on a project of that magnitude won't touch again?

Do I need to mention FSX?

[tinfoil]

Hey Blue, could you pass the popcorn?

[Blue Lion]

The entire thing is still entirely theoretical, but nooooo we're already talking about how we're going to take Freespace and rape it, desecrate everything that was once wonderful about it, turn the Shivans into fluffy bunnies and Alpha One into a Red Cross aid worker, and laugh at the screams and lamentations of the fans.

I explained what this theoretical company would be- an entity with focus, structure, and thus the ability to get things done, not a pure fan-collaboration project that is entirely dependent on the tender mercies and attention spans of that nebulous entity known as the Community.

You have no money, no company, no plan, no skills and no team.

Where would all this money come from to pay for the rights and development?

Your proposed staff would have no idea what the game is and probably wouldn't even like (or maybe even played) a space sim.

You're not even seriously attempting to turn a profit so yes I could quite understand the general feeling of "this guy is gonna screw it up". The odds of you pulling out a quality game better than the fan made ones are slim.

Why would anybody invest all that effort before at least gauging the interest of one of the possible market demographics?

Because why would anyone put faith in a guy (or guys) with essentially nothing? The guys who make fan made campaigns have more skills and assets for the project.

You literally want to code this game from the ground up. No engine to work on, no nothing. The fact that you're shocked and amazed people who have played with and worked with the previous installments for over a decade don't put much faith in the plan just shows how quickly you could nosedive the project and potentially ruin any future serious attempt at it.

[Dark RevenantX]

Why not just make a spiritual successor to FreeSpace and get the ****ing thing over with.

[captain-custard]

so if i have this clear you are going to buy the rights to use the fs3 name , from interplay, and any developer rights "V" have and from this you are going to develop FS3 so you have a better chance of getting a job if the **** hits the fan.......

if you have the skills to develop a whole new source code an effective and intelligent ai and mod all of the ships etc , what are you lacking ,use this cash to develop your own space sim ...

[Blue Lion]

Why not just make a whole new game? Why waste the money buying the rights to a decade old game when you can just create a new universe. You're already starting from scratch and are attempting to cut corners.

[Mongoose]

Whatever we can afford, yes. As I said before, this project is unlikey to be a massive commercial success; the real draw for the devteam will be the recognition of their skill and talent in actually producing a game. Even if the project is never finished, even a functional, if ugly, beta (or alpha) will be something impressive for their resume as they attempt to break into the industry. A contract giving them a percentage of any profits would be effectively gravy, since those profits aren't guaranteed to appear.

So if this is your primary goal, why not create your own intellectual property from scratch and use it as resume material?  Why in God's name would you make an effort to acquire the rights to produce a sequel to a ten-year-old game that, to be brutally honest, utterly flopped in retail?  I'm not seeing any tangible benefit from what you're proposing.  And that's to say nothing of how you chose to broach the subject with the core fanbase for your project, which, if I may be brutally honest again, does come across as rather arrogant and dismissive.

And to everyone in here, can the insults/flames/what have you.  I know I'm not the only one with mod status who's going to be watching this thread like a hawk.

(Heh, this is moving fast...)

[Blue Lion]

(Heh, this is moving fast...)

If you're gonna jump on the dogpile, you gotta be faster than that.

[Demetrious]

Hey Blue, could you pass the popcorn?

Live through the thrice-monthly "OMG WHERE IS LARGO'S COOL THING" thread over at the Megatokyo forums, and then you can speak of popcorn.

I'm familiar with those eternal threads, the same tired topic brought up again and again by the ever-present "n00borz." I've also seen threads with potential messily murdered by the first twenty posters who saw the topic title, categorized it as Yet Another XXX Thread, hit fast reply and went "lolol" without actually reading the OP.

Every time you do that, God makes another mission with only Synaptic Bombs for secondaries.

Please, think of the Ursas.

You have no money, no company, no plan, no skills and no team.

Where would all this money come from to pay for the rights and development?

Your proposed staff would have no idea what the game is and probably wouldn't even like (or maybe even played) a space sim.
.

I think I've already addressed the nature of the team, the project, and our maximum expectations from it. tl;dr, not much.

You literally want to code this game from the ground up. No engine to work on, no nothing.

Thank you, Captain Obvious. o7 I'll worry about the magnitude of such a project after we miraculously beat the 95% chance that   will tell us to die in a fire. It's not like we've got a paypal account set up for donations already.  They question Solus posed to the community is exactly the question he's going to pose to   come Tuesday: "IF I actually rode in the door on a magical unicorn, would you consider it?" And the only answer he's expecting is either "um, if," or "EXPIRE IN A MOST PAINFUL MANNER SIRRAH." It is an inquiry into what support could be expected should a magical unicorn be obtained.

You're not even seriously attempting to turn a profit

And yet you apparently think that we're expecting to pull a full-fledged engine out of our rear, like conjurers.

Insert Quote
Why not just make a spiritual successor to FreeSpace and get the ****ing thing over with.

First useful comment in the last ten posts. :/

A further elucidation of my thoughts on this project can be broken down into several questions, the major ones being: what incentive will the devteam have to work on this project, rather then join the devteam of an already-existing freeware game that would have similar demands, and opportunities for them to prove their talent? How will the project mature if it survives to the rough alpha of the core component, the engine- after the main incentive and motivation of the devteam has been fulfilled? (Considered in light of the fact that   is only likely to give permission for an attempted development from which they will derive royalties, while maintaining their copyright- essentially treating the devteam as subcontracted labor.) At each stage of development, what is the likelihood that   will decide to take over the project and finish it themselves? How will this effect the motivations of the students compromising the devteam? What will be the legal status of the work done should the project fail at any given point in the development; vis a vis the communities right to use and build off it? What would the legal dynamics between  , the company, and the devteam be like at each point of the project, especially any theoretical tipping point where some actual modest profit would be feasible, rather then just a fancy hobby project to show off to potential employers? Will this tipping point come before, or after, the incentive of resume-candy has been fufilled, potentially leaving a devteam with a huge amount of work and only a nebulous promise of a return?

This is just the tip of the iceberg. You could say that I am slightly aware of the magnitude of the task.