I dun get it. More people jump to the East, where there's a pedestrian walkway...? :confused:
No. I didn't think to look at the numbers.I dun get it. More people jump to the East, where there's a pedestrian walkway...? :confused:
You... were just kidding right?
Very funny......
No, they should be stronger and take the pain of life instead of the easy way out and a massive pitty party, but it does take some bravery to kill yourself. So one could say they are weak and strong at the same time, just in different ways, I suppose.
Very funny......
No, they should be stronger and take the pain of life instead of the easy way out and a massive pitty party, but it does take some bravery to kill yourself. So one could say they are weak and strong at the same time, just in different ways, I suppose.
I really dislike it when people assume that those who commit suicide are somehow weak.
whine about it too much instead of just dealing with itNot true. Of the two suicidal people I've known, both were outwardly cheery and never showed symptoms until they did it.
I thought people like that were (sometimes) attributed to having an "undeserved" high self-esteem. People don't often consciously hit others because of their own life difficulties, but the people I know put themselves into positions in which there is little choice (gang violence etc). Often around here the people who start fights are drug/alcohol abusers and testosterone fueled.
i would actually rather consider people who lash out and hurt other people to compensate for their own lifes difficulties to be much "weaker".I wouldn't say people lash out for those specific reasons though.
I got a report about this thread; I'm leaving it open because a legitimate discussion could occur here. Don't mess it up, don't be overly offensive or a huge dick.
Very funny......'
No, they should be stronger and take the pain of life instead of the easy way out and a massive pitty party, but it does take some bravery to kill yourself. So one could say they are weak and strong at the same time, just in different ways, I suppose.
In fact, suicides are promoted by a tremendous number of factors, most of them non-internal. These include the size of one's social network, the presence or absence of a pet, the presence or absence of an engaging job, genetic factors that mediate the reaction to stressful life events, culture, availability of suicide methods, and the number of suicides which have occurred in the person's awareness.
suicide = pain > coping methods
But going and jumping off a bridge of your own free will because you're depressed... no.
You could say the exact same thing of any disease, though.
Like those who are ill with cancer or AIDS, the depressive and the suicidal need help. Most suicides are preventable, and to attribute suicide to 'weakness' in the suicide victim is to neglect the fact that 'we' (the people around the victim) could have probably saved them.
Here's my problem with your analysis:But going and jumping off a bridge of your own free will because you're depressed... no.
That's a contradiction. People do not jump off a bridge 'of their own free will.' There is no free will. There are no decisions without causes. People jump off bridges because they are depressed. And that depression is an ailment as powerful and real as something like Ebola. It must be addressed and treated in order to prevent the death of the patient.
That said, I agree that suicide has a devastating effect on those close to the victim. But I imagine this is part of what motivates suicide victims. The act is, in no small part, a plea for help - 'Why didn't you pay attention to me? Why didn't you listen?'
You could say the exact same thing of any disease, though.
Like those who are ill with cancer or AIDS, the depressive and the suicidal need help. Most suicides are preventable, and to attribute suicide to 'weakness' in the suicide victim is to neglect the fact that 'we' (the people around the victim) could have probably saved them.
I won't get into it since it is off topic
That's a contradiction. People do not jump off a bridge 'of their own free will.' There is no free will. There are no decisions without causes. People jump off bridges because they are depressed. And that depression is an ailment as powerful and real as something like Ebola. It must be addressed and treated in order to prevent the death of the patient.
That said, I agree that suicide has a devastating effect on those close to the victim. But I imagine this is part of what motivates suicide victims. The act is, in no small part, a plea for help - 'Why didn't you pay attention to me? Why didn't you listen?'
If you posit the nonexistence of a choice in this case, then it's not preventable.
The characterization of the act as a plea for help also demonstrates the problem with the argument you're making. Something in that logic process has clearly gone terribly wrong since the plea is being made in the form of an act which renders it unanswerable.
Yes, failure. Suicide is, to use an engineering term, a failure mode of the human pysche.
It is the failure of normal coping mechanisms to sustain the mind.
They were not able to handle the strain.
So yes, ultimately, it must be ajudged a sign of their weakness, their inability to adapt to or cope with what they were exposed to.
Effort and gaining tolerance and knowledge through experiences is what makes someone better at things or stronger or more intelligent. It isn't just a genetic predetermination and we are just mindless automatons. It is what you try to accomplish too and trying to better yourself. You can become good at things you never were good at before by trying, in most cases. People can to a certain extent control how they feel and invent their own motivations to continue living, like I have done. To always blame an illness and say they couldn't control themselves is to make an excuse to not hold someone responsible for their actions. Kind of like people going around saying a killer is not responsible because of insanity. We all have a choice in most cases and one choice is just for us not to think about certain pain or get our mind on something else or take a nap. Eating healthier can also help relieve depression to a certain extent. I don't believe in anti-depressants. They often times don't work and I feel they are a gimmick for a company just to make money off of the person suffering. They often hide natural cures and remedies so they can get you to keep buying medication to make money off of the person, it seems.
To always blame an illness and say they couldn't control themselves is to make an excuse to not hold someone responsible for their actions. Kind of like people going around saying a killer is not responsible because of insanity.
Eating healthier can also help relieve depression to a certain extent. I don't believe in anti-depressants. They often times don't work and I feel they are a gimmick for a company just to make money off of the person suffering. They often hide natural cures and remedies so they can get you to keep buying medication to make money off of the person, it seems.
Yet that's just what happens...so someone could fake insanity and then go and murder someone...
I don't see why people who commit suicide always think that a bridge is the easiest place - walking in front of a truck or crashing your car is just as easy - I have often thought about how easy it would be for someone waiting to cross the road to just walk out into the traffic.
I don't see why people who commit suicide always think that a bridge is the easiest place - walking in front of a truck or crashing your car is just as easy - I have often thought about how easy it would be for someone waiting to cross the road to just walk out into the traffic.
... which might potentially cause a bigger crash. From what i read, people wanting to end their own life don't necessarily stop considering other peoples lifes.
MP-Ryan are there cases where the friends or family members of a patient are not allowed to contact with him/her?
I don't like taking antidepressants because I distinguish depression-due-to-brain-suckage from depression-due-to-life-suckage. My psychiatrist, on the other hand, seems convinced that pills will somehow cause my life to be less suck.I don't think you can separate the two as easily as that. There is a feedback loop involved between the outside events of a person's life and chemistry that causes a person's thoughts to tend this way or that way. It isn't called the "long downward spiral" for nothing. You could take a person with reasonably normal brain chemistry and put them in a sufficiently hellish situation, and the person that comes out could have drastically different, clinically depressed, brain chemistry at the end. So even when they are removed from the situation that induced depressive or GAD-like tendencies, the abnormal brain chemistry may not only persist but actually feed back on itself until it is worse than it ever was while the stressful situation was ongoing. PTSS is an extreme example of this.
... which might potentially cause a bigger crash. From what i read, people wanting to end their own life don't necessarily stop considering other peoples lifes.
I needed to be on medication; I don't argue that point. I was not well. But I would endure almost anything rather than have to go on meds again.
Depends on the jurisdiction and requests of the patient. In general, privacy law permits immediate family (spouse, children, or parents) with the legal right of visitation and access. The patient can always stipulate that such contact is not allowed, however.
Secure psychiatric facilities (especially custodial facilities for "not criminally responsible" patients who have committed serious crimes) have restrictive visiting hours, but unless there is a request by the patient or a court order, immediate family has a right to access for visitation at such times as reasonably permitted by the facility.
I think what you're asking is if medical personnel can prohibit the contact of a patient with their family and - in all but exceptional circumstances which inevitably include court action - the answer is no. At least, in countries adhering to Common Law legal standards (Britain, Canada, USA, Australia, etc).
Modern anti-depressants are very, very good.
The new ones have a lot fewer side effects than first-generation SSRIs. 2nd Gen SSRIs and atypicals (like Buproprion in particular) minimize side effects and maintain a high degree of normal emotional affect.I hope so for the sake of those unfortunate enough to need them. I think Paxil probably qualifies as 1st-generation SSRI, but I'm pretty sure Effexor does not. Both of them have nasty discontinuation problems, and the way effexor was handled back then (I'm not sure about its current delivery system, or if it is even still in use), it was almost impossible to reduce your dosage slow enough to make any difference from stopping cold turkey. Once I'd been off for about two months, the panic attacks stopped and I could hold down food, I swore up and down, never again.
And for treatment purposes? I'm asking because i had a friend ho committed suicide a few months after his treatment in a clinic and during that period his family didn't allow me, or any other of his friends to see him, saying that this was the doctors order.
And for treatment purposes? I'm asking because i had a friend ho committed suicide a few months after his treatment in a clinic and during that period his family didn't allow me, or any other of his friends to see him, saying that this was the doctors order.
You answered your own question: the family didn't allow you to see him. Doctors can make orders all they like, but they don't trample on legal rights. As family, they have rights to visitation (and for minors, rights in choosing medical care). Friends have no legal standing whatsoever.
Modern anti-depressants are very, very good.
Have to disagree there, Ryan. I'm going to take a guess here and say you're not actually depressed or have been yourself, and the only way to fully understand it is if you are and or have been. I was on anti-depressants for... let's see... 3, 4 years? They stopped working about 1 year in, and actually left me somewhat addicted (Okay, addiction isn't really the right term. more like fear of not taking them). Once your brain kicks in and you realize how ****ed up the situation you're in really is, you think to yourself "holy ****, maybe I really should be depressed".
Now, I'm probably going to take a lot of flak for saying this, but I view depression as an early warning system of sorts. The bodies way of saying you need to change. Now I see a lot of you calling depressed people unmotivated, or lacking in willpower, but that could just as easily be diagnosed as a symptom of modern society.
Have to disagree there, Ryan. I'm going to take a guess here and say you're not actually depressed or have been yourself, and the only way to fully understand it is if you are and or have been. I was on anti-depressants for... let's see... 3, 4 years? They stopped working about 1 year in, and actually left me somewhat addicted (Okay, addiction isn't really the right term. more like fear of not taking them). Once your brain kicks in and you realize how ****ed up the situation you're in really is, you think to yourself "holy ****, maybe I really should be depressed".
Now, I'm probably going to take a lot of flak for saying this, but I view depression as an early warning system of sorts. The bodies way of saying you need to change. Now I see a lot of you calling depressed people unmotivated, or lacking in willpower, but that could just as easily be diagnosed as a symptom of modern society.
I'm just not a fan of oral medication since they have a habit of giving you bad side effects (been there done that long ago) and I almost died when I was 12 from a medication in school. It is scary when you can't control your neck pulling itself back and your breathing gets cut off, off and on.
It seems to make you feel less emotion in general and that is not a good feeling. They can actually make you want to commit suicide more, they say. I hear on commercials that one possible side effect of anti-depressants is the tendency to want to commit suicide. So I'd think it would be a no-no for people who already have that train of thought.
Which sucks a fat donkey ****.
It does seem odd that a Doctor should be ordering no contact with their friends if the person is a depressive, however, I'd have thought the opposite to isolation would be a better treatment, to encourage the patient to go out and learn to enjoy life a bit more, and realise that they are not truly alone in their problems.
It does seem odd that a Doctor should be ordering no contact with their friends if the person is a depressive, however, I'd have thought the opposite to isolation would be a better treatment, to encourage the patient to go out and learn to enjoy life a bit more, and realise that they are not truly alone in their problems.
What if the friends are a negative influence, either encouraging suicide itself (re: suicide promotion groups and pacts are currently a major problem in Japan) or encouraging behaviours that prolong the depressive episode?
People will mental illness often tend to try to "self-medicate" with drugs and/or alcohol, both of which make the symptoms worse. Friends that encourage such behaviours are not good associates.
Note: I'm not saying perhelion is anything like that, just throwing some very good reasons out there.
About 2 years ago I got hit by a rather large truck moving rather fast. Did not die.
It does seem odd that a Doctor should be ordering no contact with their friends if the person is a depressive, however, I'd have thought the opposite to isolation would be a better treatment, to encourage the patient to go out and learn to enjoy life a bit more, and realise that they are not truly alone in their problems.
And given that your profile says you are 15, there is no way in hell you should EVER have been prescribed any sort of anti-depressant. They are not tested in adolescents, and they don't work on adolescents.
Oh, agreed, there are certain things that his friends would need to be aware of, but it just seems odd that it seems have been almost total isolation that has been recommended, but then, I don't know the details of the case, so there may well be factors I don't know about.
And given that your profile says you are 15, there is no way in hell you should EVER have been prescribed any sort of anti-depressant. They are not tested in adolescents, and they don't work on adolescents.
I'm sure others wouldn't possibly so quick as to judge the wisdom of the great MP Ryan, but I'd like some actual proof here.
Edit: To clarify, I'm not disagreeing on the latter part of that statement, and I really hate to sound like Max, but people will use any excuse to make money. And you people laugh at cynicism.
Recently, there has been some concern that the use of antidepressant medications themselves may induce suicidal behavior in youths. Following a thorough and comprehensive review of all the available published and unpublished controlled clinical trials of antidepressants in children and adolescents, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a public warning in October 2004 about an increased risk of suicidal thoughts or behavior (suicidality) in children and adolescents treated with SSRI antidepressant medications. In 2006, an advisory committee to the FDA recommended that the agency extend the warning to include young adults up to age 25.
More recently, results of a comprehensive review of pediatric trials conducted between 1988 and 2006 suggested that the benefits of antidepressant medications likely outweigh their risks to children and adolescents with major depression and anxiety disorders. The study, partially funded by NIMH, was published in the April 18, 2007, issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.
Everything he just cited was American: FDA, JAMA, NIMH.
It's not that people tend to laugh at cynicism, but a certain kind of sophisticated cynicism seems more credible.
Overprescription is a completely different issue from the drugs not working, which is the original assertion you made. And I agree, overprescription is a major problem.
But MP-Ryan has been saying (and my teaching agrees) that these drugs should not be prescribed to the young. The effects are not the same, and diagnosis of depression in adolescents is itself kinda problematic.
It's not that I'm calling him a liar - I'm simply saying that the drugs should not be prescribed to him in the first place. The sad fact is that a lot of GPs (in particular) cave to parents' demands and whip out the prescription pad because they don't have any psychology training.