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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Blue Lion on June 24, 2009, 05:15:02 pm

Title: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 24, 2009, 05:15:02 pm
As some people were aware, South Carolina Gov Mark Sanford went away earlier this week. Vanished. His wife and kids didn't even know where he went.... for Father's Day.

So before I spoil the rest of the story.......


SC Gov. Sanford admits affair after going AWOL
 

Quote
By JIM DAVENPORT, Associated Press Writer Jim Davenport, Associated Press Writer – 34 mins ago

COLUMBIA, S.C. – After going AWOL for seven days, Gov. Mark Sanford admitted Wednesday that he had secretly flown to Argentina to visit a woman with whom he was having an affair. Wiping away tears, he apologized to his wife and four sons and said he will resign as head of the Republican Governors Association.

"I've been unfaithful to my wife," he said in a bombshell news conference in which the 49-year-old governor ruminated aloud with remarkable frankness on God's law, moral absolutes and following one's heart. He said he spent the last five days "crying in Argentina."

Sanford, who in recent months had been mentioned as a possible presidential candidate in 2012, ignored questions about whether he would step down as governor.

At least one state lawmaker called for his resignation. As a congressman, Sanford voted in favor of three of four articles of impeachment against President Bill Clinton, citing the need for "moral legitimacy."

The affair is now over, Sanford said, describing the woman who lives in Argentina as a "dear, dear friend" that he's known for about eight years and been romantically involved with for about a year. He said he's seen her three times since the affair began, and wife found out about it five months ago.

"What I did was wrong. Period," he said. His family did not attend the news conference, and his wife Jenny Sanford said she asked the governor to leave and stop speaking to her two weeks ago. The governor says he wants to reconcile, and his wife's statement said her husband has earned a chance to resurrect their marriage.

"This trial separation was agreed to with the goal of ultimately strengthening our marriage," she said.

Sanford denied instructing his staff to cover up his affair, but acknowledged that he told them he thought he would be hiking on the Appalachian Trail and never corrected that impression after leaving for South America.

"I let them down by creating a fiction with regard to where I was going," Sanford said. "I said that was the original possibility. Again, this is my fault in ... shrouding this larger trip."

Questions about Sanford's whereabouts arose early this week. For two days after reporters started asking questions, his office had said he had gone hiking on the trail.

Cornered at the Atlanta airport by a reporter from The State newspaper, Sanford revealed Wednesday morning that he'd gone to Argentina for a seven-day trip.

When news first broke about his mysterious disappearance, Jenny Sanford told The Associated Press she did not know where her husband had gone for the Father's Day weekend.

Sanford emerged Wednesday afternoon at a news conference, where he mused openly of his love of hiking and how he used to guide trips along the Appalachian Trail, and eventually tearfully apologized to his wife, his staff and his friends — but without yet saying what he was apologizing for.

"I hurt a lot of different folks," he said, occasionally choking up throughout the news conference that lasted about 20 minutes.

With those watching still wondering what he was admitting, Sanford said: "The odyssey that we're all on in life is with regard to heart."

Several residents said they were disappointed.

"He shouldn't have lied to us. He should have been up straight," said college student Gerald Walker, 19, in downtown Columbia. "It's very embarrassing for someone in a leadership role that we are supposed to respect, especially me being a young guy."

Glenn Mitchell, of Columbia, said he felt Sanford's absence showed a lack of concern for the state.

"He left the state unattended," said Mitchell, 54, out of work recuperating from surgery. "He just hasn't been there for us."

State Rep. Todd Rutherford, D-Columbia, called for Sanford's resignation.

"There is nothing left to save," Rutherford said. "There is no reason for him to remain as governor."

Sanford, a former three-term congressman, was elected governor in 2002. He has more than a year remaining in his second term and is barred by state law from running again.

The libertarian-leaning Republican was seldom a firebrand. But he was known for salting tales of family life into policy discussions.

He criticized the $787 billion federal stimulus law and efforts by legislators to claim a share of it by saying in tough times a family would sit around the table and find ways to cut spending.

His vocal battle against the Obama administration over the stimulus money won praise from conservative pundits, but ultimately, a state court order required him to take the money.

Jenny Sanford, a millionaire whose family fortune comes from the Skil Corp. power tool company, has been central to Sanford's political career. She ran his congressional campaigns and his first race for governor. She was an almost daily fixture at senior staff meetings, and often could be seen driving a minivan away from the Statehouse in the mornings.

The two met when Sanford, who has an MBA, was trying his hand on Wall Street. She was working at a brokerage house when he entered a training program.

As governor, Sanford has had seemingly endless run-ins with the GOP-dominated Legislature, once bringing pigs to the House chamber to protest pork barrel spending. He also put a "spending clock" outside his office to show how quickly a proposed budget would spend state money.

Sanford's announcement came a day after another prominent Republican, Sen. John Ensign of Nevada, apologized to his GOP Senate colleagues after revealing last week that he had an affair with a campaign staffer and was resigning from the GOP leadership.


And just for giggles

(http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/BlueLion/fnc_20090624_sanford.jpg)
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Galemp on June 24, 2009, 06:21:30 pm
**** you Fox news. How the Republicans can still claim to stand for 'traditional family values' and 'the sacred institution of marriage' blows my mind.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Ford Prefect on June 24, 2009, 06:47:39 pm
BOOOOORING. I just wish our politicians had affairs with style like they do in Europe. Did Berlusconi apologize tearfully for having nude teenage girls sunbathing at his place? No-- he demanded that his wife apologize to him for being angry about it. That's entertainment.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 24, 2009, 07:09:25 pm
Airport bathroom toe tapping doesn't do it for you?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Turambar on June 24, 2009, 07:14:08 pm
(http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv359/BlueLion/fnc_20090624_sanford.jpg)

why do they keep switching the letters when one of their politicians does something bad.

isn't that a lie? and isn't that also illegal to do on the news?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Inquisitor on June 24, 2009, 07:18:43 pm
Fox News isn't news ;)

And, before we get some GOP talking points about its no worse than Clinton: At least Billy had the courtesy to be available, in the country and in his office while he was getting blown ;)
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Ford Prefect on June 24, 2009, 07:25:34 pm
Airport bathroom toe tapping doesn't do it for you?
No, because it didn't involve 18-year-old girls having sunbathing parties at mansions.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 24, 2009, 07:27:45 pm
Airport bathroom toe tapping doesn't do it for you?
No, because it didn't involve 18-year-old girls having sunbathing parties at mansions.

Well that's less the desire for scandalous news and more your desire for 18 year old topless sunbathers.....

....

excuse me a moment.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Ford Prefect on June 24, 2009, 07:52:49 pm
But again, the Larry Craig scandal culminated in a sheepish, humiliating public apology. The only recent American scandal I can think of where the perpetrator had Berlusconi-level balls was the Blagojevic fiasco, which was actually pretty awesome because for once, an apology was actually owed. (Please don't apologize to me for cheating on your wife; I don't give a ****. Apologize to her.) But not only did the Blagojevic scandal not involve attractive women, it didn't involve sex at all. So, y'know, big minus. Sarkozy's day-to-day life is more interesting than most of our scandals.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Kosh on June 24, 2009, 09:07:16 pm
What I'm wondering is where did Obama disappear to last summer during the campaign.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 24, 2009, 09:20:14 pm
What days did he disappear? If they found this guy in an Atlanta airport I'm sure we can find Obama.

What days was he gone and we can check his schedule.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Kosh on June 24, 2009, 09:52:47 pm
June 6 (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/06/06/politics/fromtheroad/entry4158647.shtml)
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 24, 2009, 10:01:37 pm
It says right in the article where he went. :wtf:
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Turambar on June 24, 2009, 10:20:38 pm
What days did he disappear? If they found this guy in an Atlanta airport I'm sure we can find Obama.

What days was he gone and we can check his schedule.

Obviously he was in Afghanistan in secret muslim terrorist training camp.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Liberator on June 25, 2009, 06:47:31 am
The biggest problem I have with this as a Conservative is that he didn't man up and resign.

He has a lot of soul searching and penace to make to his wife, assuming they're marriage is at an end, to endure the distraction of the Governor's Office.

As too why he should have resigned:

Most politicians in the USA run as upstanding happily married men.  At the very least he lied to his constituents and at most he commited some mild form of purgery by implication.

Also, I will admit that Fox runs a lot of editorial type programming.  But they're actual news programming is typically fairly honest and reliable.  I suspect the people who don't like it, wouldn't like CNN if Larry King didn't let Liberal/Democrat operatives control the talking points and flow of the interview.  That's the main reason O'Reilly is hated by the left, he won't let them get away with clouding the issue, he asks a direct question, usually yes or no, and gets 5 minutes of prevarication on a completely different topic.  And when he tried to pin them down, they run off at the mouth like a toddler.  As the sub-title says, "The Spin Stops Here".  Is he always right?  no  Does he allow prevarication to cloud the subject at hand?  no  Lastly, like any respectable newsman, of which there are few left, he very clearly labels commentary separate from news.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Rodo on June 25, 2009, 06:56:06 am
he's crazy.. at this time of the year coming to Argentina is just stupid with all the flu' outbrake we are having.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: iamzack on June 25, 2009, 07:24:43 am
Also, I will admit that Fox runs a lot of editorial type programming.  But they're actual news programming is typically fairly honest and reliable.  I suspect the people who don't like it, wouldn't like CNN if Larry King didn't let Liberal/Democrat operatives control the talking points and flow of the interview.  That's the main reason O'Reilly is hated by the left, he won't let them get away with clouding the issue, he asks a direct question, usually yes or no, and gets 5 minutes of prevarication on a completely different topic.  And when he tried to pin them down, they run off at the mouth like a toddler.  As the sub-title says, "The Spin Stops Here".  Is he always right?  no  Does he allow prevarication to cloud the subject at hand?  no  Lastly, like any respectable newsman, of which there are few left, he very clearly labels commentary separate from news.

OMG. Bill O'Reilly, respectable newsman? "BABY KILLER BABY KILLER BABY KILLER YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS"

Bill O'Reilly is a hypocrite and a moron. He doesn't "cloud the issue?" Are you serious? He doesn't ask questions, he tries to trap people. When they decide to explain to him why the question is just a trap and not a proper question, he starts yelling over them like a child. "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU DO YOU WANT BABIES TO DIE OR NOT LA LA LA"

Fox News is the GOP's pet monkey. They lie constantly, and most of their reporters are hypocritical ****s.

CNN is retarded too, but for other reasons. (Jon Stewart explains my issues with them pretty good.)

On topic: The guy is a ****ing ass. If he believes having an affair makes one ineligible for office, ****er needs to leave. I'm so sick of the GOP being all "MORALS MORALS MORALS MORALS" because we can't go two weeks without one of them being a fag or a cheater or a pedo or some other thing they claim to abhor. How about some goddamn honesty for ONCE from the GOP, EH?

Oh, one last thing, Ford Prefect: Berlusconi is not 'cool.' I know it seems really cool to publicly humiliate your wife and then do it AGAIN by threatening to sue her for her reaction to public humiliation, but, well, it's not, and I don't know how to explain that one to you other than "How would you like it done to you?" My guess is that your response would be something like "IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN TO ME BECAUSE BLAH BLAH BLAH."  :o
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 25, 2009, 07:31:31 am
Shep Smith is the only human being left at Fox News
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 25, 2009, 11:59:51 am
Oh, one last thing, Ford Prefect: Berlusconi is not 'cool.' I know it seems really cool to publicly humiliate your wife and then do it AGAIN by threatening to sue her for her reaction to public humiliation, but, well, it's not, and I don't know how to explain that one to you other than "How would you like it done to you?" My guess is that your response would be something like "IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN TO ME BECAUSE BLAH BLAH BLAH."  :o

Get down off your damn soapbox. Berlusconi is cool, if for no other reason then the man knows how to do epic levels of Refuge In Audacity. And you clearly don't know Ford, who would demonstrate grudging respect (as he does here) if it did happen to him.

This doesn't, of course, make him good at governance, but it certainly makes him amusing. I'll take amusing and hypocritical over contrite and hypocritical any day.

*snip*

Putting aside your insanity about O'Reilly, which Zack summed up pretty well, that's not even relevant.

The man was in a posistion of ****ing power, and he just wanders off and nobody can find him. Great! What the **** do we do when the major disaster hits the state? He abdicated his responsiblites over personal issues, he wasn't even capable of planning well enough to say "Hey guys, this ****'s been kinda heavy lately, I need to clear my head and think, I'm gonna take a few days leave." and now he comes back and goes "ohhai. i can haz power back now plz?"

Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Mongoose on June 25, 2009, 12:27:13 pm
The man was in a posistion of ****ing power, and he just wanders off and nobody can find him. Great! What the **** do we do when the major disaster hits the state? He abdicated his responsiblites over personal issues, he wasn't even capable of planning well enough to say "Hey guys, this ****'s been kinda heavy lately, I need to clear my head and think, I'm gonna take a few days leave." and now he comes back and goes "ohhai. i can haz power back now plz?"
Yeah, that's what really threw me about this whole story, even when it was just an "Appalachian Trail hike" instead of a sordid Argentinian affair.  The head of a state's executive branch, the person responsible for issuing orders to state agencies, the person who has authority over the state's National Guard units...is off completely out-of-contact somewhere.  It just boggles the mind that someone would see that as being a suitable course of action, no matter what the reason.

And more in general, I fail to see what relevance the little letter next to the guy's name in parentheses has to any of this.  Last time I checked, people with any number of little letters next to their names have been pulling stunts of equivalent immorality, no matter what they professed to believe publicly.  Hypocrisy and disingenuousness don't have party loyalty.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: General Battuta on June 25, 2009, 12:39:23 pm
Most politicians in the USA run as upstanding happily married men.

Nice unintentional disclosure of your politician prototype.

This, my friends, is where implicit sexism comes from. Statistically accurate, mind, but nonetheless the root of so many problems.

Quote
Also, I will admit that Fox runs a lot of editorial type programming.  But they're actual news programming is typically fairly honest and reliable.  I suspect the people who don't like it, wouldn't like CNN if Larry King didn't let Liberal/Democrat operatives control the talking points and flow of the interview.  That's the main reason O'Reilly is hated by the left, he won't let them get away with clouding the issue, he asks a direct question, usually yes or no, and gets 5 minutes of prevarication on a completely different topic.  And when he tried to pin them down, they run off at the mouth like a toddler.  As the sub-title says, "The Spin Stops Here".  Is he always right?  no  Does he allow prevarication to cloud the subject at hand?  no  Lastly, like any respectable newsman, of which there are few left, he very clearly labels commentary separate from news.

So, let me untangle the puppet strings from your statement and translate:

Bill O'Reilly can find a simplistic point and repeat it constantly while ignoring more intelligent people who try to explain the true complexity and multilateralism of the world to him?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Mobius on June 25, 2009, 01:05:27 pm
BOOOOORING. I just wish our politicians had affairs with style like they do in Europe. Did Berlusconi apologize tearfully for having nude teenage girls sunbathing at his place? No-- he demanded that his wife apologize to him for being angry about it. That's entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yNBcER_eAE&feature=sdig&et=1245909108.38

That's not a good example. Italy is pretty much like North Korea, China and Iran when it comes to press and stuff like that.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 25, 2009, 01:47:18 pm

Nice unintentional disclosure of your politician prototype.

This, my friends, is where implicit sexism comes from. Statistically accurate, mind, but nonetheless the root of so many problems.


We're talking about politicians who cheat. Even if it implies sexism, (he said most) it has nothing to do with this argument. Unless I missed something.

Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: General Battuta on June 25, 2009, 01:59:42 pm
I'm pretty sure everyone's politician prototype is male, mine included, so I shouldn't be too harsh on liberator.

Still, saying that 'most politicians in this country run as happily married men' means that a lot of women must be undergoing gender reassignment surgery before running.  :p

This is not about political correctness - it's about the availability heuristic. We have to be careful about stuff like that if we want to alter our stereotypic associations.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 25, 2009, 02:10:20 pm
In a discussion about a male married politician, someone brings up that most politicians are married men.

To me it meant "most politicians are men, who are married and use that to connect with voters who like that".

Voters like their politicians as "family people" and most of them are men.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: General Battuta on June 25, 2009, 02:15:51 pm
That's an alternative parsing of the sentence, sure. Nonetheless, I believe it betrays prototypic associations indicative of sexism, associations which everyone (myself included) shares to a certain degree.

Carry on.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Turambar on June 25, 2009, 02:17:48 pm
Too bad that most politicians who try to connect to constituents as a "family man" usually has the goal of denying people their rights, usually women, gays, and transsexuals, you know, the ones who tend to lose with the "family" stereotype.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: TrashMan on June 25, 2009, 02:47:30 pm
**** you Fox news. How the Republicans can still claim to stand for 'traditional family values' and 'the sacred institution of marriage' blows my mind.


What? Just because one or two say one thing and do the other, does that mean everyone does?
Well, in that case we should never trust ANY group claiming to stand for anything.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: iamzack on June 25, 2009, 03:16:02 pm
**** you Fox news. How the Republicans can still claim to stand for 'traditional family values' and 'the sacred institution of marriage' blows my mind.


What? Just because one or two say one thing and do the other, does that mean everyone does?
Well, in that case we should never trust ANY group claiming to stand for anything.

HAH. "one or two?!" Are you serious? He's the latest in a very, VERY long string of Republican hypocrites. Hell, even Bill O'Reilly isn't as morally upstanding as you'd think from the foam spewing from his face. Remember when he got exposed sexually harassing and stalking one of his female coworkers/employees/whatevershewas?

At this point, I'm SURPRISED when I haven't heard about some Republican scandal in over a week.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 25, 2009, 03:27:35 pm
And more in general, I fail to see what relevance the little letter next to the guy's name in parentheses has to any of this.  Last time I checked, people with any number of little letters next to their names have been pulling stunts of equivalent immorality, no matter what they professed to believe publicly.  Hypocrisy and disingenuousness don't have party loyalty.
It has relevance because the man is a republican, however they denoted him as a democrat so as to leave the republican reputation "Untarnished". They're saying he's a democrat when he's not.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Inquisitor on June 25, 2009, 03:39:55 pm
Quote
What? Just because one or two say one thing and do the other, does that mean everyone does?
Well, in that case we should never trust ANY group claiming to stand for anything.

If we were talking about rank and file republicans sure. This guy is "leadership" and supposedly one of the pinnacles that "represents" (well, perhaps now past tense) that group.

The second such "leader" in as many weeks. Its not hard to jump to that particular conclusion. Then again, it never has been.

like I said, at least Bill had the courtesy to be near the phone while getting blown. You know, in case someone needed the executive branch of government for something important.

Do important things happen in SC?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Turambar on June 25, 2009, 03:56:44 pm
Do important things happen in SC?

It's the #1 place for people in North Carolina to get fireworks of significantly higher power than are allowed by North Carolina state law.

Also, they have Myrtle Beach.

That's pretty much all I can think of.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Sushi on June 25, 2009, 03:58:19 pm
It has relevance because the man is a republican, however they denoted him as a democrat so as to leave the republican reputation "Untarnished". They're saying he's a democrat when he's not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Turambar on June 25, 2009, 04:07:02 pm
It has relevance because the man is a republican, however they denoted him as a democrat so as to leave the republican reputation "Untarnished". They're saying he's a democrat when he's not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

but they've made that same "R becomes a D" mistake so many times in circumstances where the R has committed some offense.  Why haven't they ever accidentally turned an R into a D when something good happens?  Why haven't they accidentally listed someone as a (F)?

President Bush (F) Declares Victory in Iraq

Such a typo has not yet happened, but turning an R into a D where the R was involved in some negative press has happened at least 3 times.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Scotty on June 25, 2009, 06:20:53 pm
I've made it a general rule to not watch and/or care about the news that much.  If I want to see stuff like that, I'll turn on one of the trash channels.  Just about the only news I get is from Daily Show/Colbert Report.  That, however, is barely better than no news at all.

(Are there any truly even [/i]mostly[/i] unbiased news sources?)
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Sushi on June 25, 2009, 06:54:14 pm
(Are there any truly even [/i]mostly[/i] unbiased news sources?)

[philosophical]
If there were, how would you be able to tell?
[/philosophical]

I really don't mind "bias" in the sense of news reporters having an opinion and making it known. What I mind is a lack of journalistic integrity, whereby through either malice or laziness reporters omit critical parts of a story. Sometimes, it's neither: I don't believe that people like Glenn Beck or Arianna Huffington are malicious or lazy, but perhaps spending so much time supporting a specific point of view can make you a bit myopic.

Either way, I agree that it's hard to find trustworthy news sources these days.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Liberator on June 25, 2009, 07:06:39 pm
Multilateralism... :shaking:

I suppose the Governor should have multi-lateral talks with his wife to save his marriage?

Or how about multi-lateral talks to decide the outcome of the NHL Championship or the Superbowl.

These are weak analogies I realize.

It's just that, contrary to what I see being portrayed in the media, there are only two sides that actually matter in this discussion.  Not republican or democrat, not the role this has in the Government of SC, the only two positions that matter are the governor's and his wife's, and they're none of our business.  There's too much digging into the personal lives of public figures to try and generate scandal.  This is a tragedy for they're family and I'd have him left alone so he can deal it.

Let me be clear, I'd want this guy out of office whether he was a Democrat, a Republican or a Socialist operative for the Giant Spaghetti Monster who works for the Basement Cat.  As a leader in society(not of society necessarily) he's in a position where he should provide a firm moral and ethical foundation for others to look at say, "He's a good man, I want to be like him."  Politics are ****ing this world over and dragging us away from whats important.

Also, I was going to write this long post about how there's actual Good(white) and Evil(black) in this world and painting someone who idolizes Hitler in action if not voice some shade of gray is counterproductive and down right dangerous.  By the same token, painting someone who's trying to do good some shade of gray because they stumble is also counterproductive and dangerous.

Reply to Sushi since it was posted while I was typing:
Mr. Beck is a commentator and a Community Organizer.  He reports on political, fiscal and social Insanity and tells people what they can do to stop it.  He gives voice to what a lot of people in the USA are thinking but are too afraid to say because of the people perpetrating the insanity have done an excellent job in adding a fairly powerful social stigma to speaking out against them because it's unpatriotic or bad in someway.  He, I and many others have grown weary of not being able to call a spade a spade and deal with it as such.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 25, 2009, 10:15:30 pm
Glenn Beck is a comedian.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 25, 2009, 10:20:32 pm
Glenn Beck is not a comedian.
Fixed. He's not funny.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: iamzack on June 25, 2009, 10:38:48 pm
Isn't Glenn Beck just Bill O'Reilly, except he cries on tv?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: General Battuta on June 25, 2009, 10:46:11 pm
Reply to Sushi since it was posted while I was typing:
Mr. Beck is a commentator and a Community Organizer.  He reports on political, fiscal and social Insanity and tells people what they can do to stop it.  He gives voice to what a lot of people in the USA are thinking but are too afraid to say because of the people perpetrating the insanity have done an excellent job in adding a fairly powerful social stigma to speaking out against them because it's unpatriotic or bad in someway.  He, I and many others have grown weary of not being able to call a spade a spade and deal with it as such.

I don't understand how people quietly sat through eight years of the Bush administration, then turn around and began to say exactly the same things liberals said about Bush, only this time with respect to Obama.

People truly are blinded by ideologies.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Liberator on June 25, 2009, 10:58:36 pm
It's not that they're blinded by ideologies(though there is some of that), it's that the people who going to tea parties and watching Glenn Beck are sick and tired of the swelling size of government and basically being told to pike off.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 25, 2009, 11:31:42 pm
Glenn Beck is not a comedian.
Fixed. He's not funny.

Neither is Dane Cook, but people still call him a comedian.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 25, 2009, 11:32:54 pm
It's not that they're blinded by ideologies(though there is some of that), it's that the people who going to tea parties and watching Glenn Beck are sick and tired of the swelling size of government and basically being told to pike off.

Maybe they should have yelled at the last 8 years? You know, the people who actually made the government bigger? These people have been flipping out since the new administration started and even now we're only 5 months in.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 25, 2009, 11:46:40 pm
Glenn Beck is not a comedian.
Fixed. He's not funny.

Neither is Dane Cook, but people still call him a comedian.
I don't like him either.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: General Battuta on June 26, 2009, 12:21:50 am
It's not that they're blinded by ideologies(though there is some of that), it's that the people who going to tea parties and watching Glenn Beck are sick and tired of the swelling size of government and basically being told to pike off.

But all that started under Bush.

It's not that they're blinded by ideologies(though there is some of that), it's that the people who going to tea parties and watching Glenn Beck are sick and tired of the swelling size of government and basically being told to pike off.

Maybe they should have yelled at the last 8 years? You know, the people who actually made the government bigger? These people have been flipping out since the new administration started and even now we're only 5 months in.

Yeah, that.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Liberator on June 26, 2009, 12:23:37 am
The difference is that Bush wasn't talking loudly about this increase or that increase.  The proverbial straw is that Obama is talking about effecting what is effectively a government takeover of the medical industry to the tune of 2 TRILLION dollars annually.  Not to mention that existing G'ment programs similar to this consistently run in the red and are going to outright not have enough money to cover they're expenses in less than a decade.

The difference between the two parties is not direction, it's speed.

The reason people weren't complaining during Bush is that the republicans at least talk like they want to reduce the size of government.  The reason that people are complaining now is that they're reached they're breaking point and are tired of being lied to.  The only thing I can say that I like Obama for is not pretending he's anything but a government growing liberal.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: iamzack on June 26, 2009, 12:33:31 am
The difference is that Bush wasn't talking loudly about this increase or that increase.  The proverbial straw is that Obama is talking about effecting what is effectively a government takeover of the medical industry to the tune of 2 TRILLION dollars annually.  Not to mention that existing G'ment programs similar to this consistently run in the red and are going to outright not have enough money to cover they're expenses in less than a decade.

Oh no! Taxpayer money being used to help *gasp* TAXPAYERS?? Canadian healthcare would be a dream come true for me. I'm sick of having to fight with insurance companies to get basic care without spending thousands and thousands of dollars for it.

The reason people weren't complaining during Bush is that the republicans at least talk like they want to reduce the size of government.

So Republicans like liars? THAT explains a lot!!
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 26, 2009, 12:37:07 am
The difference is that Bush wasn't talking loudly about this increase or that increase.  The proverbial straw is that Obama is talking about effecting what is effectively a government takeover of the medical industry to the tune of 2 TRILLION dollars annually.  Not to mention that existing G'ment programs similar to this consistently run in the red and are going to outright not have enough money to cover they're expenses in less than a decade.

These talks, and that's all they are now, just started fairly recently and most people do want a redo of health care.  You want a different kind of health care? Great. Call your congressmen (or women) and tell them what you want. Tell your insurance company or doctor what you want.

(http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ntlptpg5t0uwnc5rw10m6q.gif)

There have been giant talks about health care and how it is rapidly turning into a huge problem. Medicare and Social Security. Prescription Drug plan (signed by Bush) longer life spans etc etc. All of these things will snowball and in 10-20 years will swamp us.

Is the plan proposed the right one? I dunno. But a plan needs to be pushed. I have yet to see a real Republican solution to this.

The reason people weren't complaining during Bush is that the republicans at least talk like they want to reduce the size of government.  The reason that people are complaining now is that they're reached they're breaking point and are tired of being lied to.  The only thing I can say that I like Obama for is not pretending he's anything but a government growing liberal.

So Bush lied to everyone's face about growing the government and everyone was ok with it cause it was under the rug. Obama tells it like it is and everyone freaks out?

This is not reasoned discussion. These tea parties are not alternate plans or anything. When Republicans realize they are a minority party right now and can't put a full stop on this we will all be better off. They have enough votes to push for compromise, but they don't want that. They want to stop this Democratic majority and they don't really have enough votes for that.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Liberator on June 26, 2009, 04:18:25 am
I don't know about republicans, but I would love to see some hard limits on the amounts that can be rewarded and more stringent requirements on the validity of cases brought on malpractice.  One of the primary causes of increased medical costs is the completely disproportionate size of benefits awarded vs. the actual severity of the claim.

IMO, if a doctor is guilty of malpractice they're liable for literal financial damages such as cost of care and materials used in care and a reasonable amt of punitive monies.  But awarding hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, over what is in all seriousness a frivolous case at best for something as esoteric as pain and suffering is what is costing the medical industry so much money.

As to that whole poll you linked...the reason people aren't confident in Republican leaders in Congress to produce a solution is because it's not something they talk about.

Let's be frank about our president for just a moment.  His experience as a politician and leader has been as one of these so-called "Community Organizers".  It does not qualify him to speak authoritatively on any of the subjects he has been rambling on about.  Becoming President does not automatically educate someone in a particular field.  I know he has advisors on these subjects, but that poll paints him as being directly able to solve the problems simply because he is Barack Hussein Flipping Obama.  That in and of itself smells to me and not in a magnolia on a lazy summer afternoon on the back porch kind of way.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Inquisitor on June 26, 2009, 07:14:25 am
Quote
Mr. Beck is a commentator and a Community Organizer.

Quote
His experience as a politician and leader has been as one of these so-called "Community Organizers".  It does not qualify him to speak authoritatively on any of the subjects he has been rambling on about.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: iamzack on June 26, 2009, 07:18:31 am
I don't know about republicans, but I would love to see some hard limits on the amounts that can be rewarded and more stringent requirements on the validity of cases brought on malpractice.  One of the primary causes of increased medical costs is the completely disproportionate size of benefits awarded vs. the actual severity of the claim.

IMO, if a doctor is guilty of malpractice they're liable for literal financial damages such as cost of care and materials used in care and a reasonable amt of punitive monies.  But awarding hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, over what is in all seriousness a frivolous case at best for something as esoteric as pain and suffering is what is costing the medical industry so much money.

As to that whole poll you linked...the reason people aren't confident in Republican leaders in Congress to produce a solution is because it's not something they talk about.


Let's be frank about our president for just a moment.  His experience as a politician and leader has been as one of these so-called "Community Organizers".  It does not qualify him to speak authoritatively on any of the subjects he has been rambling on about.  Becoming President does not automatically educate someone in a particular field.  I know he has advisors on these subjects, but that poll paints him as being directly able to solve the problems simply because he is Barack Hussein Flipping Obama.  That in and of itself smells to me and not in a magnolia on a lazy summer afternoon on the back porch kind of way.

AWK AWK community organizers know NOTHING, AWK! Perhaps people trust him more because what he says does happen to coincide with what many doctors say, whereas teh Congresspeople are still serving corporations, including Insurance Companies rather than, you know, their constituents..

I am amused by Republicans being less trusted than actual *insurance companies* though, since the whole thing threatens the insurance companies themselves. Then again, Repubs are very much the party of big business and lies, so maybe it makes sense.

Quote
Mr. Beck is a commentator and a Community Organizer.
Quote
His experience as a politician and leader has been as one of these so-called "Community Organizers".  It does not qualify him to speak authoritatively on any of the subjects he has been rambling on about.

 :yes2:
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 26, 2009, 09:34:52 am
The difference is that Bush wasn't talking loudly about this increase or that increase.  The proverbial straw is that Obama is talking about effecting what is effectively a government takeover of the medical industry to the tune of 2 TRILLION dollars annually.  Not to mention that existing G'ment programs similar to this consistently run in the red and are going to outright not have enough money to cover they're expenses in less than a decade.
Oh I know, it'll be horrible. Taxpayer money going to fund taxpayer healthcare. Notice how the Canadian system is not failing, notice how I'm not dead?

I don't know about republicans, but I would love to see some hard limits on the amounts that can be rewarded and more stringent requirements on the validity of cases brought on malpractice.  One of the primary causes of increased medical costs is the completely disproportionate size of benefits awarded vs. the actual severity of the claim.
And that's not how government healthcare works (at least up here, which is a good model). You go in, you get your bill, your insurance company pays for a percentage of whatever costs are incurred over the costs covered by the government. There's no "claiming", without private hospitals people pay for what they use, unless I misunderstand.

IMO, if a doctor is guilty of malpractice they're liable for literal financial damages such as cost of care and materials used in care and a reasonable amt of punitive monies.  But awarding hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, over what is in all seriousness a frivolous case at best for something as esoteric as pain and suffering is what is costing the medical industry so much money.
This has nothing to do with government healthcare, it'd happen anyways. And "frivolous"? If you had your leg cut off by a malpracticing doctor, it wouldn't be so "frivoulous", would it?

As to that whole poll you linked...the reason people aren't confident in Republican leaders in Congress to produce a solution is because it's not something they talk about.
If they don't talk about it, how are they supposed to reach a conclusion?

Let's be frank about our president for just a moment.  His experience as a politician and leader has been as one of these so-called "Community Organizers".  It does not qualify him to speak authoritatively on any of the subjects he has been rambling on about.  Becoming President does not automatically educate someone in a particular field.  I know he has advisors on these subjects, but that poll paints him as being directly able to solve the problems simply because he is Barack Hussein Flipping Obama.  That in and of itself smells to me and not in a magnolia on a lazy summer afternoon on the back porch kind of way.
Fair point, but how do you know he's uneducated on these subjects?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: General Battuta on June 26, 2009, 09:36:31 am
A couple days back one of my friends was moving stuff off a glass table when the table split in half. One chunk fell on his foot, impaling it to a depth of about an inch.

He wouldn't go to the emergency room until he was sure he had insurance coverage. He'd recently graduated from college, so he wasn't sure his student coverage was still in effect.

The system definitely needs an overhaul. Absurdities like that cannot continue.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Turambar on June 26, 2009, 11:05:09 am
A couple days back one of my friends was moving stuff off a glass table when the table split in half. One chunk fell on his foot, impaling it to a depth of about an inch.

He wouldn't go to the emergency room until he was sure he had insurance coverage. He'd recently graduated from college, so he wasn't sure his student coverage was still in effect.

The system definitely needs an overhaul. Absurdities like that cannot continue.

Hell, I *have* insurance and I still used to never go to the hospital until I absolutely had to (as in, will probably die if I don't). Insurance companies like to fight over every little thing, and some, like mine, are just ****ty. There is exactly ONE physician I can go to in my area. If I don't like that doctor, too damn bad.

I can has real coverage nao, prease?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: TESLA on June 26, 2009, 11:23:36 am
Im so glad I live in Ireland  :D

May be a 2nd rate system, but once your in, (50 Euro) thats it!
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 26, 2009, 12:56:29 pm
A couple days back one of my friends was moving stuff off a glass table when the table split in half. One chunk fell on his foot, impaling it to a depth of about an inch.

He wouldn't go to the emergency room until he was sure he had insurance coverage. He'd recently graduated from college, so he wasn't sure his student coverage was still in effect.

The system definitely needs an overhaul. Absurdities like that cannot continue.
And see up here the health system pays for any necessayr care and a semi-private room, the rest is up to you.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Liberator on June 27, 2009, 03:14:27 am
It's a nice idea really, I would love the world to work like Star Trek where you get what you need when you need it at no cost to anyone except a fancy box in the wall burning a few hundred watts of power.

The problem with Obama's plan is that the various entities it's supposed to help, small business owners and what not, are gonna be the first ones to stop offer they're employee's insurance, then the employee's will have nothing but the government plan because there's nothing about this that is going to actually lower costs.  If anything, costs are gonna go up since the government has "bottomless" pockets, some scheister lawyer will figure out a way to sue the government for mal-practice and then all bets are off.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 27, 2009, 09:16:53 am
A lot of small businesses offer insurance here, and you can still get Blue Cross or whatever, it's just regulated and they're not allowed to drop your coverage as soon as you sneeze. So why would this lawyer sue the government for malpractice? The government didn't operate on his client, the doctor did. In which case (in Canada, which I assume is what they're basing the system off of) the doctor would have to fight the battle out of his own pocket. Up here doctors are just paid by the government, while they are regulated heavily, the government isn't accountable for their mistakes.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: SpardaSon21 on June 27, 2009, 11:51:51 am
Why would the government be sued?  They have the deepest pockets.  I was reading in my local paper a few days ago about a $55 million judgment against the U.S. government.  The reason?  A government contractor had hit and injured someone.  I can see no way in which the federal government is liable for the malfeasance of a contractor in a situation like that, but there you go.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 27, 2009, 11:55:21 am
It never happens up here, and I don't know of where it has happened. Care to cite any sources, Liberator?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: iamzack on June 27, 2009, 12:30:28 pm
Debunking Canadian health care myths (http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427)
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 27, 2009, 06:56:42 pm
A government contractor had hit and injured someone.  I can see no way in which the federal government is liable for the malfeasance of a contractor in a situation like that, but there you go.

I can see a way.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Scotty on June 27, 2009, 07:00:42 pm
Yeah, because the guy that did the hitting was the government :rolleyes:.
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 27, 2009, 07:31:59 pm
If the shoe fits...
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Scotty on June 27, 2009, 07:37:07 pm
Yeah, and I can fit into a size 42 shoe, even though I noramally wear a 11.5.  That doesn't mean I should go around walking in them. (Thanks for the analogy :D)
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 27, 2009, 07:38:20 pm
Yeah, because the guy that did the hitting was the government :rolleyes:.

He is the very definition of "the government".
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 27, 2009, 07:39:45 pm
(http://adelphosgc.com/images/contractor.jpg)

Doesn't he look right "Governmental"?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Blue Lion on June 27, 2009, 08:24:03 pm
What is a governmental look anyways?
Title: Re: The mystery of the missing Governor!
Post by: Scotty on June 27, 2009, 08:30:11 pm
This is the first picture of a guy to come up when searching government:

(http://www.blackcommentator.com/251/251_images/251_cartoon_rich_government_poor_people_small_over.jpg)

 (:wakka:)