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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: jkalltheway on August 08, 2009, 02:02:52 pm

Title: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: jkalltheway on August 08, 2009, 02:02:52 pm
You guys have probably had this posted before, but i couldn't find it. Playing Mystery of the trinity on hard mode, is there any way to win?
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Sushi on August 08, 2009, 02:17:33 pm
As in, save the Trinity? Nope.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Droid803 on August 08, 2009, 02:32:10 pm
Well, you could kill all the SF Dragons just to prove how good you are but the mission won't end unless the NTC Trinity bites it.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: dragonsniper on August 08, 2009, 03:35:41 pm
Did this mission take place in a nebula?
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: jkalltheway on August 08, 2009, 03:37:26 pm
Yes it did. and that pretty much answers my question. darnded. What happens if you kill the dragons? Do cruisers jump in?
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Mongoose on August 08, 2009, 03:43:38 pm
I don't think anything happens, honestly; it would just break the mission.  There's not supposed to be any feasible way to keep the Trinity alive for a full fifteen minutes without the Dragons overwhelming you and taking it out.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Aardwolf on August 08, 2009, 04:10:36 pm
Yeah, you're not supposed to win.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Thaeris on August 08, 2009, 07:32:39 pm
I remember playing the retail version of the mission before the FSO version. In that iteration, you could stay as long as you liked blasting at the Dragons. In the FSO version, there's a time window open for your escape. This makes the warnings Command gives you more realistic, but changes obvious factors...

On the bright side, you might want to consider getting out pretty quick. If you try to jump out while being shot at, your ship will never slow to 40m/s, thus meaning you're going to die. As far as saving the Trinity goes, isn't it set to blow up after a period of time anyway?

-Thaeris
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: BengalTiger on August 09, 2009, 07:05:03 pm
As far as saving the Trinity goes, isn't it set to blow up after a period of time anyway?

-Thaeris

It is. I've managed to keep it protected good enough to see it lose HP's and explode even though there was not a single SF firing at it.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Kosh on August 15, 2009, 02:55:08 am
In FS1 I was able to (almost) save the Plato, it just stopped at the node and wouldn't jump or do anything, so I had to let up on my raping of the Shivan bomber and let it eventually destroy it.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 15, 2009, 03:38:19 am
In FS1 I was able to (almost) save the Plato, it just stopped at the node and wouldn't jump or do anything, so I had to let up on my raping of the Shivan bomber and let it eventually destroy it.

There's a self-destruct for that in FSPort now, I think. There was one time I protected the Plato and managed to keep it in one piece all the way.

And then it stopped inside the node and blew up. :lol:
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Locutus of Borg on August 15, 2009, 11:14:05 am
Yup, same thing happened with me. I wanted to see how COOL I was. Loaded up with dumbfires and killed the lot of those Shivans. Eventually, I just sat back and watched as the Plato slowly drained while sitting idly in the node.

Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Mongoose on August 15, 2009, 11:30:04 am
The Shaitans always seemed to do a much better job of taking it out in FS1 proper, as I don't think I ever had it survive all the way to the node and sit there until the Port.  Must have been some AI change somewhere.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 15, 2009, 11:46:40 am
I got it to the Node in FS1, where it sat for about 15 minutes before the Shivans finally killed it while I was rearming for the nth time...
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: azile0 on August 18, 2009, 02:09:02 pm
What about the Taurus? Ever tried protecting that?  ;7
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Locutus of Borg on August 18, 2009, 07:03:40 pm
the wha
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Droid803 on August 18, 2009, 08:39:39 pm
Does he mean the transport? I don't think it was called Taurus though...
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Scotty on August 18, 2009, 09:20:25 pm
Vasudan Cruiser in a cargo depot.  Shortly after the Shivans appear.  Destroyed in part by the Tantalus.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 18, 2009, 10:24:17 pm
That's the Ramses. The Taurus is the Aten cruiser that was supposed to attack the Plato, but was destroyed by the Shivans (or self-destructed by a SEXP).
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: S-99 on August 18, 2009, 10:27:04 pm
I managed to keep the plato alive too, The plato was actually good enough with its turrets to keep the scorpion off of it completely. I killed the shivan, then i killed the plato parked in the node, then i escorted it's escape pod inside the node.

Saving the plato would be a nice bonus objective if it didn't just sit on it's ass in the node.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Droid803 on August 19, 2009, 01:53:32 am
Vasudan Cruiser in a cargo depot.  Shortly after the Shivans appear.  Destroyed in part by the Tantalus.

That's the Ramses. The Taurus is the Aten cruiser that was supposed to attack the Plato, but was destroyed by the Shivans (or self-destructed by a SEXP).

Tantalus? The SD Tantalus is the Demon that ambushes the Bastion. The Ramses is killed by the Taranis.

And ty for that, kept thinking that Taurus is only used as a wing designation.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: jkalltheway on August 21, 2009, 05:01:52 pm
in a similar vein of thought, what happens if you destroy one or more turrets on the sathanas in "a monster in the mist?"
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Galemp on August 21, 2009, 05:09:00 pm
You get a medal!
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Droid803 on August 21, 2009, 05:26:07 pm
It's a bonus objective.
going afterr the main beams don't count for more and they're much harder to kill. Unless you want to do it just to prove how good your are.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: jkalltheway on August 21, 2009, 07:49:57 pm
as long as we're talking about missions, A Flaming Sword seems to have a few issues. The dialogue states that there are two wings of Maras around the Knossos, but i find 2 wings of Astaroths instead. and when i engage the Astaroths and bring them back towards the Corvette Renetet, the Corvette fires its AA beams once, and then stops firing. Oh, and did i mention the beams hit my wingmen? Although that was probably more accidental than anything. I know this has been mentioned here before, but i don't know whether there has been a fix for it or not.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Droid803 on August 21, 2009, 07:51:39 pm
I just kill them all at the Knossos. (screw the bonus)
Astaroths aren't exactly hard to kill, and I tend to lose my wingmen if I try and bait them.

The AA beams should keep firing - maybe they're just not in the firing arc.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Thaeris on August 21, 2009, 11:30:08 pm
If we're going on about bugs in general... I do have a problem. In the Main Campaign, the mission "Proving Grounds" puts some sort of miserable invulnerability flag on the Tiamat after the Aquitaine jumps out (or so it seems). Thus, although you should have the pleasure of killing the Shivan dirtbag, you'll have to settle for taking down all turrets and subsystems while leaving the hull at anywhere from 12-1%. If the FSUP would like to fix this, I'd be most obliged.

-Thaeris
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Hades on August 21, 2009, 11:56:27 pm
If we're going on about bugs in general... I do have a problem. In the Main Campaign, the mission "Proving Grounds" puts some sort of miserable invulnerability flag on the Tiamat after the Aquitaine jumps out (or so it seems). Thus, although you should have the pleasure of killing the Shivan dirtbag, you'll have to settle for taking down all turrets and subsystems while leaving the hull at anywhere from 12-1%. If the FSUP would like to fix this, I'd be most obliged.

-Thaeris
It's not a case of an invulnerability flag being thrown on it after the Aquitaine leaves, as its hull still goes down. It's from a flag that is set on capital ships and the lack of a flag in the weapon(s) in Freespace 2 (corvettes and above) that will not allow primaries and missiles to kill capital ships.

And, there's no fix for this. It has been this way since retail and will most likely not change.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Thaeris on August 22, 2009, 12:04:17 am
Thus, if I were to go into FRED, put a wing of Herc 2's vs. an enemy Deimos, the thing would just stick around at 1% hull strength forever?  :wtf:

If that's NOT true, can you clarify your last statement a bit? I am quite curious to know the exact nature of this problem.

-Thaeris
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Locutus of Borg on August 22, 2009, 12:04:41 am
I only learned that when I tried to kill the Raksasha the first time you see it.

:(
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Mongoose on August 22, 2009, 12:08:32 am
That's not a bug; it's simply the "big damage" flag at work.  In FS2, any ship bigger than a cruiser has that flag defined in its table entry, which prevents it from being destroyed by conventional fighter weapons; the damage applied by these weapons over the last 10% of hull integrity decreases exponentially, to the point where the ship just can't be destroyed. (Ships with the "supercap" flag, such as the Colossus and Sathanas, have a similar effect applied at 75%.)  Weapons with the "huge" flag defined in their table entries ignore the "big damage" effect and cause the last 10% of damage normally; the only player-usable weapons which have this flag are the Stiletto II, Trebuchet, Cyclops, and Helios.  The whole system essentially exists to prevent one fighter from taking down a huge capital ship with just a continuous stream of primary fire, such as the trick that everyone used to kill the Hades in the original Silent Threat.  I don't think you can equip a weapon with the "huge" flag in "Proving Grounds," and so the Tiamat is very difficult to kill on anything lower than Medium difficulty; even if you stick right next to it, the Aquitaine's beams just don't do enough damage quickly enough in order to take it out.

So yeah, if you put a bunch of Herc II's with a default loadout in-game, they wouldn't be able to take out a Deimos on their own.  It may not be the most realistic system ever, but I think it's somewhat more so than letting a Loki with a Subach be able to destroy an Orion.

(Yeah, someone else snuck in, but I extracted table entries to look this stuff up, dammit. :p)
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Thaeris on August 22, 2009, 12:20:09 am
That's actually a quite reasonable programming feature... to an extent. I recall putting well over 1000 Tempests into that hunk-O-crap after the damage threshold was reached. With the Tempest packing a 16kT warhead EVENTUALLY there would be serious hull breaches which would eventually lead to the thing being blasted apart. Perhaps it's just because I was disabling the corvette and the Aquitaine got out of range?

With what you'd just said, I assume no primary has "big" damage. I'd almost like to convince myself the Maxim/Kaiser are an exception, but that's probably wrong.

-Thaeris
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 22, 2009, 02:55:54 am
As far as I know, only the Trebuchet, Cyclops and Helios have the "huge" flag on them. "huge" negates the "big damage" flag.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Kie99 on August 22, 2009, 06:38:00 am
If damage decreases exponentially would the ship eventually go down to one remaining hit point, meaning it could be taken out simply by a player colliding with it?
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: ssmit132 on August 22, 2009, 07:39:17 am
I only learned that when I tried to kill the Raksasha the first time you see it.

:(
:wtf: You should be able to take out the Rakshasa, since you can destroy cruisers with any weapon that does hull damage.

Also, about the Tiamat, I recall someone saying they took it out using an EMP Adv. (apparently the shockwave actually damaged it enough for it to be destroyed).
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Kolgena on August 22, 2009, 08:51:20 am
I just remember that the Tiamat's destruction became a primary objective instead of a secondary one in the VPs. That screwed up the mission badly for me, since I couldn't manage to kill it even on insane. So, I turned off VPs and just let the tiamat live to pass the mission. I wonder if that's fixed in the new patch...
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Snail on August 22, 2009, 08:58:06 am
I still don't get why the FSU had to touch the missions except to make minor changes. That sounds like an entirely unnecessary change.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: NGTM-1R on August 22, 2009, 11:53:27 am
I still don't get why the FSU had to touch the missions except to make minor changes. That sounds like an entirely unnecessary change.

What he said.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Locutus of Borg on August 22, 2009, 12:44:32 pm
I only learned that when I tried to kill the Raksasha the first time you see it.

:(
:wtf: You should be able to take out the Rakshasa, since you can destroy cruisers with any weapon that does hull damage.

Also, about the Tiamat, I recall someone saying they took it out using an EMP Adv. (apparently the shockwave actually damaged it enough for it to be destroyed).

I set up my keyboard so something was holding down the primary key. I went out and watched some TV. It was stuck at 1% for a good long while and I just gave up.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Droid803 on August 22, 2009, 01:05:52 pm
Well, it doesn't change the fact that if you disable the Tiamat, and the Aquitaine jumps out (on whatever version, you're stuck). It'll never go down past 1% HP.

The Aquitaine almost never does enough damage to kill it, even with every single fighter wailing on it.

It's supposed to escape after the Aquitaine leaves and you fail a bonus/secondary objective and still pass. It just doesn't reliably get killed often enough to justify it being a prerequisite to pass.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Scotty on August 22, 2009, 02:05:55 pm
Even if it gets out, you get a medal if that Aquitaine makes it out with 50+ hull.
Title: Re: Mystery of the Trinity
Post by: Hades on August 22, 2009, 05:14:13 pm
I still don't get why the FSU had to touch the missions except to make minor changes. That sounds like an entirely unnecessary change.
I agree with this statement.