Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: peterv on August 27, 2009, 06:39:12 pm

Title: Bakha
Post by: peterv on August 27, 2009, 06:39:12 pm
The ugliest bomber of the Vasudan arsenal:


(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8026/bkh1alt.jpg)


(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/859/bkh2.jpg)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Nighteyes on August 27, 2009, 06:50:32 pm
Well, I guess now its not ugly anymore :D  :yes:
I love how it stayed close to the original design...
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Tantalus53 on August 27, 2009, 06:54:33 pm
Also one of the most usefull.. and now one of the most sexay! that model is  :pimp:
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 27, 2009, 07:16:44 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on August 27, 2009, 08:19:49 pm
Ugliest? I thought it was the best looking one myself.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Commander Zane on August 27, 2009, 08:22:19 pm
Woot, another ship in the works.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Mongoose on August 27, 2009, 08:59:12 pm
Woot.  If we can get some textures on there that don't look blurry as hell, that'll wind up being very sexy. :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 27, 2009, 09:01:45 pm
/
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Galemp on August 27, 2009, 09:41:38 pm
Nice, very nice.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: sigtau on August 28, 2009, 06:14:00 am
Excellent. With a proper texture and normal map, this will be perfect.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: blowfish on August 28, 2009, 08:58:32 am
Maybe the cockpit area needs a little work, but great otherwise :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: The E on August 28, 2009, 09:41:01 am
It needs a proper cockpit. With glass and pilot and stuff. all too few of the Vasudan ships have that little bit of awesomeness.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: headdie on August 28, 2009, 10:23:35 am
Maybe the cockpit area needs a little work, but great otherwise :)

a little ridge work on the cockpit glass supports would be where I'd start
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: General Battuta on August 28, 2009, 10:26:53 am
Excellent. With a proper texture and normal map, this will be perfect.

Keep your dick in your pants. It's getting there, but peterv definitely has some more tricks up his sleeve (including, hopefully, a cockpit!)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on August 28, 2009, 10:27:15 am
I didn't do anything to the cockpit yet, it's going to "eat" the rest 1000 polys left.  :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 28, 2009, 02:25:22 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Sushi on August 28, 2009, 02:44:41 pm
Most likely the smoothness on the pic is just renderer smoothing, without being high-poly. Look at the edges...
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on August 28, 2009, 06:25:27 pm
Most likely the smoothness on the pic is just renderer smoothing, without being high-poly. Look at the edges...

Exactly  :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Ziame on August 29, 2009, 08:01:41 am
One of the most perfect HTLizations. Maybe not as awesome in terms of artistic freedom, but it's really the Bakha, just prettier and eating your processors
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 29, 2009, 02:51:30 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Snail on August 29, 2009, 02:53:30 pm
One of the most perfect HTLizations. Maybe not as awesome in terms of artistic freedom, but it's really the Bakha, just prettier and eating your processors
It's textures, not so much polies, that slows down your game.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Herra Tohtori on August 29, 2009, 03:05:35 pm
One of the most perfect HTLizations. Maybe not as awesome in terms of artistic freedom, but it's really the Bakha, just prettier and eating your processors
It's textures, not so much polies, that slows down your game.

Tell that to asteroids... Collision detection really starts to bog down frame rates when there are enough high-poly objects in the game, even with perfectly optimized texture use. Which many of FreeSpace ships do not, friendly spoken, have. :nervous:
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Snail on August 29, 2009, 03:38:49 pm
10,000 polies for a single asteroid is insane, especially when you have upwards of 100 of them in-game, up to 200 in really big asteroid fields...
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 29, 2009, 04:50:26 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Nighteyes on August 29, 2009, 05:07:57 pm
It won't matter in a few years since the average computer will be able to handle it anyways. If you can't handle it, either upgrade your computer or use older models and textures from older vps by copying them to mediavps/data in their corresponding sub-folders. I wouldn't want the team to limit detail just because some people are complaining.

If so, then why not bump up the max frame limit? and let me add effects with thousands of frames in them?? obviously not every one agrees with your views... :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 29, 2009, 05:12:10 pm
*_*
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Thaeris on August 29, 2009, 05:33:56 pm
Well, the poly problem would not be as much as an issue if the collision detection model was improved. I believe this was mentioned elsewhere in the forum.

-Thaeris
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Kolgena on August 29, 2009, 07:37:39 pm
Back on topic:

Is there a reason you modeled the gaps in the plates instead of using a normal map for them? It seems a bit wasteful.
Otherwise, I must say that I have another distracting factor to screw me up in Bearbaiting. "Look, the flak turrets are shooting me. Look at how pretty the explosions are when framing my HTL---" BOOM
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 29, 2009, 07:55:04 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on August 29, 2009, 08:06:14 pm
Peterv: Apart from the fact that the stuff you produce always looks awesome, the nicest thing about your threads is that I open them up to the plesant surprise of a fully textured ship. Keep it up! :D
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on August 29, 2009, 08:21:39 pm
Thank you VA :D

Kolgena: What High Max said, provided that I'm staying below the 6000 polys limit.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Mongoose on August 29, 2009, 09:37:14 pm
Exactly.  Those of us incapable of seeing normal maps at the present time deserve at least some shiny stuff too. :p
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on August 30, 2009, 02:23:34 pm
Almost there :

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9816/almstthr.jpg)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Snail on August 30, 2009, 02:26:45 pm
Peterv:

YOU ARE AWESOME



(though just a thought, the Serapis and Bakha are both pretty dull when it comes to glow maps. I think some artistic license could be taken there, at least on the Bakha)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 30, 2009, 02:35:20 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Narvi on August 30, 2009, 03:12:19 pm
That cockpit seems like it takes too little space... how to put it... the original model gave the impression that the bubble canopy was only one part of the cockpit; now it looks more like a blister which contains the entire cockpit.

Not that I'm telling you to remodel it or anything; just my personal impression.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Rodo on August 30, 2009, 05:06:24 pm
hahaha! that a really tight cockpit

poor little vasudan fellow :D
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on August 30, 2009, 06:23:01 pm
Well, if you think that this is a tight cockpit, you should wait and see what i'll to to the Myrmidon  ;7
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Commander Zane on August 30, 2009, 06:34:49 pm
OOOOOH YOU'RE HTL-ING THE MYRMIDON MORE?
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 30, 2009, 06:37:18 pm
*_*
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Titan on August 30, 2009, 10:49:40 pm
The things I miss when I get dragged to the mall.

Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Kolgena on August 31, 2009, 10:40:00 am
Hmm. I still think that the cockpit should be mainly inside the fuselage, rather than almost completely on the surface. If you look at the Serapis for reference, it seems like that Vasudans like to put a cockpit in the body and give it a tiny window, rather than stick a guy completely in some tiny "blister" as mentioned before. Even doubling the depth of that cockpit would make it look loads comfier.

As for the normal map suggestion, I just didn't see how some parts of the bomber would look much different depending on usage of polies or mapping (side "wing" surface), but I guess if some people can't use normal maps, that's fine. I guess I was hoping that more polies could be used for more details, but looking at the bomber now, there isn't too much that can be added to it, so freeing up polies is a bit useless.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Titan on August 31, 2009, 10:48:35 am
Yeah, make it extend back. It looks really wierd right now  :eek:
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: blowfish on August 31, 2009, 06:37:43 pm
Meh ... I like it.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on August 31, 2009, 08:37:18 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Rodo on August 31, 2009, 08:44:30 pm
Of course if the window is sticking out so far, it would definitely be a structural weakness in the ship and a shot there would basically ruin the bomber and its abilities, since its controller, aka the Vasudan would be gone quite fast.

[sarcasm]well Vasudans are known for being suicidal and kinda emo like...[/sarcasm]



Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Rodo on August 31, 2009, 08:59:50 pm
Something I've been wondering... what if the player get's transfered to the Psamtik and it chooses to fly the backa? will he mute to a Vasudan form? :p
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Commander Zane on August 31, 2009, 09:00:36 pm
Of course if the window is sticking out so far, it would definitely be a structural weakness in the ship and a shot there would basically ruin the bomber and its abilities, since its controller, aka the Vasudan would be gone quite fast.
You know, this is the first time I've seen this brought up, why hasn't it been mentioned before even with the Retail model if it's the same canopy? :P
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on August 31, 2009, 09:11:36 pm
The cockpit looks great. Don't change it.

Reducing it to a mere window destroys any sense of scale.

What about the Tauret? It has a huge window too, if that's just a little viewport the thing becomes tiny.

The Serapis is not the Bakha. Vasudans are allowed to design their fighters a little different from model to model are they??
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: -Norbert- on September 04, 2009, 03:33:04 am
Quote
The Starfury pilot stands instead of sits.
Granted the pilot is strapped in upright, but on the other hand in zero-g there is no such thing as standing or sitting in the first place :P
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Narvi on September 04, 2009, 03:46:40 am
This is less about realism than that the blister-design looks kinda off.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on September 04, 2009, 06:40:40 am
This is less about realism than that the blister-design looks kinda off.

What looks off?

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9816/almstthr.jpg)

(http://knossos.firenebula.com/fs2/unit-images/bakha.jpg)


Exact same cockpit. All the guy did is swap out the black glass for clear glass. If you don't like the design that's fine but its how Volition made the thing and I would not be in favour of changing classic designs to accommodate people's sense of realism or lack thereof. A few of the MVP ships have taken too many liberties to me as it is. Like what are those two big dumb pipes in the back of the Deimos all about???
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: General Battuta on September 04, 2009, 11:10:50 am
Agreed, current cockpit is awesome.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Nighteyes on September 04, 2009, 11:48:29 am
And remember guys, as Petrev said himself, its not completly finished yet, lets all be patient and see the final model when its ready :) (a bird has wispered in my ear that the cockpit will change a bit)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Kie99 on September 04, 2009, 04:58:12 pm
I'd suggest you either offer a version with black glass, or a version with a terran pilot, in order to maintain continuity for Bearbaiting and High Noon.  Call it GVB Bakha #Terran and the FSURP team can integrate it.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Herra Tohtori on September 04, 2009, 07:23:29 pm
Oh.

Carry on then. ;7

...the model, too.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on September 04, 2009, 08:10:45 pm
I'd suggest you either offer a version with black glass, or a version with a terran pilot, in order to maintain continuity for Bearbaiting and High Noon.  Call it GVB Bakha #Terran and the FSURP team can integrate it.

This is the reason for the delay. I'm trying to add both the terran and vasudan cocpits to the same model and switch them with a texture replacement. There must be no mesh collisions, and still look cool. However, if i wont make it there'll be two versions, terran and vasudan cocpit.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Commander Zane on September 04, 2009, 08:25:37 pm
That'll be sweet, only problem is all the Vasudan fighters / bombers are going to need two versions, that'll probably be annoying on the campaign when it comes to editing them.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Qent on September 04, 2009, 10:40:36 pm
Yes, that sounds a bit too complicated to justify. I would say either make it black or just make him a Vasudan and don't worry about it.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Woolie Wool on September 04, 2009, 11:54:56 pm
Quote
The Starfury pilot stands instead of sits.
Granted the pilot is strapped in upright, but on the other hand in zero-g there is no such thing as standing or sitting in the first place :P

That doesn't make sense. A human being positioned on a horizontal surface with the thighs pointing out horizontally can be described as "seated" and a human being upright with feet flat against a floor can be described as "standing" even if they're strapped in that way. Standing and sitting are postures, and even if they're maintained artificially they're still postures.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 05, 2009, 09:58:23 am
This is the reason for the delay. I'm trying to add both the terran and vasudan cocpits to the same model and switch them with a texture replacement. There must be no mesh collisions, and still look cool. However, if i wont make it there'll be two versions, terran and vasudan cocpit.
Oh, nonono don't do that! Remember how I was fiddling with that same thing on your Uly? Basically it only currently works by:
1) NOT using transparency on the pilot texture at all
2) making the two pilots separate subsystems
3) initially destroying one of the two subsystems on EVERY instance of the ship that appears in each mission, since the default would be a human-vasudan hybrid

Definitely just go for a Vasudan only for now, as without a fully bug free rendering engine it's impossible to get right in-game. :(
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on September 05, 2009, 01:02:19 pm
This is the reason for the delay. I'm trying to add both the terran and vasudan cocpits to the same model and switch them with a texture replacement. There must be no mesh collisions, and still look cool. However, if i wont make it there'll be two versions, terran and vasudan cocpit.
Oh, nonono don't do that! Remember how I was fiddling with that same thing on your Uly? Basically it only currently works by:
1) NOT using transparency on the pilot texture at all
2) making the two pilots separate subsystems
3) initially destroying one of the two subsystems on EVERY instance of the ship that appears in each mission, since the default would be a human-vasudan hybrid

Definitely just go for a Vasudan only for now, as without a fully bug free rendering engine it's impossible to get right in-game. :(

O.K.  :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 08, 2009, 06:40:19 pm
Haha, how convenient - I was going to split the last batch of posts since they were getting so verbose and off topic, but the database corruption did that for me. :p

For the modders: When using transparency in textures, the FS engine will correctly not-render the faces themselves, but neither does it render any polygons that appear after those faces in the face list of that model. For interchangeable cockpits that's a show stopper because you would need to alternate where each pilot appears in the face list in order to get them rendering without holes all over them. The only possability that doesn't involve scripting or code changes is to make both pilots separate invisible destroyable subobjects, and then to pre-destroy the pilot you don't want in EACH and EVERY instance of that ship in each and every mission they appear in.

For the non modders: It's not currently possible, so please stop inventing less and less practical solutions for it. :p When we can do it, we will.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: blowfish on September 08, 2009, 06:47:37 pm
I thought I saw something somewhere that said that faces with the "invisible" texture weren't rendered anyway...
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on September 08, 2009, 07:18:25 pm
Oh that might work better, since IIRC the faces that are textured with 'invisible' bypass the whole rendering engine. I still don't think it'd be worth the effort of implementation (you'd again need the two pilots as separate non-destroyable objects, and then you'd need to do 2 texture replacements on each ship to switch out from the default), but it comes closer than the 'pre-destroy the pilot you don't want' method. :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on September 11, 2009, 08:37:52 pm
Ingame:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?j2xzt3ywn4m

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4084/bigame.jpg)

Don't take the normal map seriously, this is not a good normal map.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Zacam on September 11, 2009, 08:45:56 pm
If the mediafire link is to a package, it is not working.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on September 11, 2009, 08:48:54 pm
Just checked it, it works for me. Can you recommend another host?
FIXED
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Thaeris on September 11, 2009, 10:49:37 pm
Almost looks like a mechanical hydralisk... I like it!
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Droid803 on September 11, 2009, 11:02:45 pm
Almost looks like a mechanical hydralisk... I like it!

What?

But yay! Another one done!
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Thaeris on September 11, 2009, 11:07:09 pm
This... apart from abusing (or using... depending on your point of view...) the Myrmidon is the first single-seat FS2 bomber, no?
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on September 11, 2009, 11:25:23 pm
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Droid803 on September 11, 2009, 11:28:59 pm
Might be lighting settings.
I don't think the rendering method has changed, though the textures may have.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Zacam on September 12, 2009, 01:20:12 am
The new Bakha package pof is still using the mediavp's -shine map. So nothing changed there.

Newer recent builds have a bit of a different environmental effect graphics wise with no changes to the settings that seems to have made a lot of improvements however.

That, and I can tell that peterv is using the Patch for the mediavp's as the glass isn't the darker smokier version that we attempted in the reRelease.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: hundeswehr on November 18, 2009, 11:46:34 pm
hi, could you reupload the package please? the link is down.

thanks.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on November 18, 2009, 11:55:28 pm
hmm?
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: hundeswehr on November 19, 2009, 01:17:53 am
on reply 65, there is a mediafire link to package, but it no longer works.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: High Max on November 19, 2009, 02:05:11 am
.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Zacam on November 19, 2009, 03:34:32 pm
The Bakha is in the MediaVP svn. Expect a release coming up soon-ish. (Still working out a few more things, all unrelated to this fine model)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on November 19, 2009, 03:45:27 pm
The Bakha is in the WediaVP svn. Expect a release coming up soon-ish.
WediaVPs? :shaking:
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Mongoose on November 19, 2009, 04:05:13 pm
Like the MediaVPs, but better!
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Snail on November 19, 2009, 04:12:59 pm
Bah. Does that mean I have to change all my mod.ini's?
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Galemp on November 19, 2009, 08:40:10 pm
It's the evil twin of the MediaVPs. They wear yellow and have a craving for garlic.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Woolie Wool on December 02, 2009, 10:35:40 pm
Does someone still have this model? The download's long since expired.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Snail on December 04, 2009, 09:46:50 am
Does someone still have this model? The download's long since expired.
I suppose it would be in the FSU SVN by now.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Woolie Wool on December 04, 2009, 11:26:56 am
Wherre is that? Does anyone besides the devlopers have access to it?
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Snail on December 04, 2009, 11:42:54 am
Wherre is that? Does anyone besides the devlopers have access to it?
I think only the developers have access to it.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Solatar on December 05, 2009, 07:20:15 pm
So it got released to the public, then retracted and now we have to wait until the next MediaVP version to get it?
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2009, 07:35:49 pm
That's a...strange way of handling it.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Commander Zane on December 05, 2009, 07:40:40 pm
I'd prefer to have a massive update than have the very few changes that 3.6.10 Final brought.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Solatar on December 05, 2009, 08:15:21 pm
That's a valid point; but then you can refrain from downloading bleeding edge stuff and just wait for the official releases.

But, it's the author's work and he can do whatever he wishes. I'm on a FSPort binge lately anyway.  :P
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Snail on December 05, 2009, 08:41:53 pm
So it got released to the public, then retracted and now we have to wait until the next MediaVP version to get it?
That's a...strange way of handling it.
The way I see it, it was unintentional.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: peterv on December 16, 2009, 01:12:27 am
Sorry my friends, was too busy with RL and missed your request :D

http://www.mediafire.com/?fywoyw4t0oy

Please note that both of them are not the finals. They work,  but there are errors in the Pof data, Zacam works to fix them.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Kolgena on December 16, 2009, 02:08:20 am
Game breaking errors? What exactly do you mean by "errors"?

I want the goods now, but if they're going to dirty my experience, then I'd rather wait for Zacam to clean stuff up.
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Nighteyes on December 17, 2009, 04:53:52 pm
I think that link is broken petrev... can you send me the model by email? I would like to take your cockpit and use it on another model I'm making... :)
Title: Re: Bakha
Post by: Thaeris on December 20, 2009, 03:07:46 pm
From occasionally having to use MediaFire, I'm of the opinion that it's not to be trusted.

Could you upload your projects to FSmods, Peter? Once the final versions of the craft are in FSO, the uploads could then simply be deleted by the admins.