Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Tarvis on January 21, 2010, 05:10:20 pm
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Updated again!
See http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=67688.msg1343905#msg1343905!
Hey there. This is a simple modification to mv_effects-wep.tbm that makes the Subach (and Mekhu) start as red and fade to blue, just like the retail game.
Get the new .vp here. Place it in /mediavps/
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3366/finalcompare.png)
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4121/mekhu.png)
!!!IMPORTANT!!! DELETE THE OLD .TBM YOU GOT HERE BEFORE, IF YOU DID!!!
I had no idea what I was doing and it ended up disabling the MediaVP effects for every other weapon. This .vp version has no such problem.
For now I have separated the Mekhu into a different VP.
If you use MV_Advanced, bring in the A-MV_Adv**** for whatever weapon you're using. The Mekhu one works with any color.
Want a blue mekhu? Simply don't extract any of them.
Also, get the Red Subach Impact VP if you don't want them to be pink. This works for the Mekhu as well.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I share your curiosity. Of course, I could always say it was altered so the Subach didn't look retailish in Open. I myself prefer the red colour personally. Meh, I've got my red Mekhu HL-9 for my Cerberus campaign so I'm happy blasting renegades and Shivans with that. :)
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That's true. Whatever happened to the retail color-switch?
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The red-blue fade is still there, just reversed.
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I'm so used to blue -> red now that the retail red -> blue looks...off (ESPECIALLY on the Mehku)
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Looks multi-colour to me... oh wait the MediaVPs one is animated. I'm fine with the current effects as it is but don't know about you guys... ummm... oh well XD
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I greatly prefer the retail red-to-blue over any MediaVP trickery.
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I think Lightspeed did it, but whoever did I bet the completely irrellevant reasoning was that blue = high energy, red = low energy. ;)
My question would simply be which do people like better? I think I'd go for red->blue.
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Red-blue looks kind of cool, but I prefer the blue-red just because logically it makes more sense. The weapon starts out with a high energy and wears down over its flight... :nod:
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Red-blue looks kind of cool, but I prefer the blue-red just because logically it makes more sense. The weapon starts out with a high energy and wears down over its flight... :nod:
This is FreeSpace. We gleefully ignore silly things like "logic." :p
(Red-to-blue for me, please, although I don't think I'd ever noticed the change myself.)
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I think at the very least someone could make a VP that switches it back to red-to-blue.
Hell, I'll do it.
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Red to blue for me too.
I did notice it the first time, it was a bit jarring and awkward at first but I quickly got used to it, but that's not to say I don't prefer red-to-blue more.
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my belief is that it should mimic retail colour in official media updates
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Okay, I've done it (It's a simple modification to mv-effects-wep.tbm, switching the @Laser Color and @Laser Color2 options. Done for the Mekhu as well.)
(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8719/redsubach.png)
However, before I post the file, I want to know if there's a better way to do it then by having it completely replace the old .tbm, because of other weapons are updated in the official MediaVPs then the changes will have to be made again every time there is an update.
So what I mean is, is there a way to make a separate table that only has entries for the Subach (and Mekhu)?
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Yeah, use a .tbm with +nocreate.
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I see. Is there a way to make it over-ride the one in MediaVPs for sure?
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As long as it is in a position with higher priority, it should work. That is, stuff in mediavps\data\tables will override stuff in the vps.
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I see. I will just distribute the .tbm instead of making a .vp for it then.
Thanks for the help.
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Bleh that looks bad. The center looks...purple...(and I still don't like the red->blue).
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Bleh that looks bad. The center looks...purple...(and I still don't like the red->blue).
The core goes from purple to light blue, so that might need to be recolored.
Personally I prefer the Subach and the Mekhu to look different.
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The Mekhu does look different. It has more green in it.
Also, otherwise they would have both been blue anyway.
Also, I know what you mean about the core. I'll see about making it red instead of blue.
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If you get the core red, I might not mind it that much, actually (as long as the Mehku stays green-blue. I like to be able to tell them apart!).
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The retail game has them both red, but I suppose I can make a version where the Mekhu stays blue.
Are the Subach and Mekhu ever used in the same mission anyway? I thought they were human/vasudan specific. Aren't they technically the same weapon anyways?
Oh well. I can whip up a quick FRED scenario to test out all of this.
EDIT: Would you prefer if I made the Mekhu more purple or more pink? Or would you prefer it looking exactly like the Subach (like retail)?
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Okay, I'm done.
The Subach core is now red, and the Mekhu is slightly more pink, and the glow is less prominent than that of the Subach's.
See the first page for the updated .tbm.
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To be honest, I prefer the classic MediaVP blue variant.
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To be honest, I prefer the classic MediaVP blue variant.
Well it's not exactly 'classic', is it?
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In the MediaVPs it is... :p
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Poll Added.
Hit it like you mean it.
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Yes to the Subach, No to the Mehku.
Pink is BLERGH. The teal-ish one is so much better.
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Thank you for the feedback on the preference. Noted.
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Agreed with the "BLERGH" part of Mekhu. Either purple or green-blue would be better, but I'd rather like it to keep the same red as the Subach.
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How about red-orange for the Mekhu?
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Subach ok, Mekhu way too pink.
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Keep the mehku blue-green, it fits the fishyness of the Vasudans and the SPamtik mainhall's green stuff :P (The color goes better with Vasudan craft too)
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Keep the mehku blue-green, it fits the fishyness of the Vasudans and the SPamtik mainhall's green stuff :P (The color goes better with Vasudan craft too)
I concur! :D
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The reddish colors are way better. Good job Tarvis!
The Mekhu was derived from the Subach so it makes sense they are close to the same color. We should keep it that way in the MediaVPs.
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Only if it comes paired up with this as a squadron logo.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:euYcQkcjTNhsXM:http://www.osceola.org/Files/Department/OsceolaOrg%255CMyLittlePony.JPG)
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I could try to make the Mekhu more gold as opposed to more pink. (Besides, it would probably fit more, seeing as how their beams are a golden/yellowish color anywaay)
EDIT: Made it slightly oranger than the Subach. Subtle enough to not be annoying, but it may be nearly indistinguishable. Thoughts? I still need to re-tool the impact animations for them (Currently they go from pink-to-blue)
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4121/mekhu.png)
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I still like the green-blue.
Anything red doesn't feel vasudan.
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Maybe make the Mekhu fade to cyan instead of blue?
I still like the green-blue.
Anything red doesn't feel vasudan.
If the Mekhu is blue, then I feel like the Subach should be blue too (e.g., as in the current MediaVPs).
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Changing the Mekhu to green is like changing the Subach back to blue. I thought this was made to be more retail-like? :doubt:
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Well maybe we should just keep the mekhu the same color as the subach since that's the way it is in retail. Then no more pink complaints lol.
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Well maybe we should just keep the mekhu the same color as the subach since that's the way it is in retail. Then no more pink complaints lol.
Agreed. Excepted the "lol" part (I can't stand people always ending their sentences with "lol" :p)
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To be honest, we should just keep it the way it is in the MediaVPs. Red Mehkus look bad. Mvps are designed to make stuff look better. Color doesn't affect mission balance in the slightest.
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To be honest, we should just keep it the way it is in the MediaVPs. Red Mehkus look bad. Mvps are designed to make stuff look better. Color doesn't affect mission balance in the slightest.
It doesn't look bad, not at all. And the Mvps are to make stuff look better while staying true to the original game.
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I do believe certain artistic freedom should be allowed if it improves the effect to make two different things distinguishable from one another.
Why is there blue on the Leviathan then? Why does the Lilith have a different texture than the Cain? Same reasoning. Unless you want those gone too. In which case, I give up on the MediaVPs because it's run by a bunch of purist pricks who should really just be playing retail, since they love the original so damn much.
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There's really no use arguing over the matter anymore anyway, the "yes" votes obviously outvote the "no" votes by over 100%.
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Whatever the votes might say, it is still up to the discretion of the FSO staff and the FSO staff alone.
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FSU, you mean.
But ergh, I hate it when this happens. Everything's fine and then someone points out it's not exactly the same as retail and then it gets changed to something of lesser aesthetic appeal. Isn't that just going backwards? There are so many things that could be improved, and frankly, this isn't one of them.
Don't do it!
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Well maybe we should just keep the mekhu the same color as the subach since that's the way it is in retail. Then no more pink complaints lol.
Agreed. Excepted the "lol" part (I can't stand people always ending their sentences with "lol" :p)
I know what you're talking about! But its so funny people that people are so strongly against the pink. I'm playing FSO right now and it doesn't bother me at all. In game it looks really close to the red so I can barely tell the difference.
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I can see it!!!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I do believe certain artistic freedom should be allowed if it improves the effect to make two different things distinguishable from one another.
Why is there blue on the Leviathan then? Why does the Lilith have a different texture than the Cain? Same reasoning. Unless you want those gone too. In which case, I give up on the MediaVPs because it's run by a bunch of purist pricks who should really just be playing retail, since they love the original so damn much.
I very much agree with the concept behind what you're saying, things could look even better if some of the team would get over themselves and lose the 100% Retail mindset.
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I do believe certain artistic freedom should be allowed if it improves the effect to make two different things distinguishable from one another.
Why is there blue on the Leviathan then? Why does the Lilith have a different texture than the Cain? Same reasoning. Unless you want those gone too. In which case, I give up on the MediaVPs because it's run by a bunch of purist pricks who should really just be playing retail, since they love the original so damn much.
While I agree, I think you're over-reacting. Please realize I didn't do this just so it can get into the MediaVPs. I did it because I know some people out there would like the red one better. So, they download this. If you don't want red subachs? Don't get the .vp. Nobody is forcing it upon you.
It's just a matter of personal preference. While blue ones may seem better to some people, it may not to others.
Also, the different colors and textures for the Leviathan/Fenris and the Cain/Lilith is so that players could easily differentiate between the two. I don't believe that this is why the Subach was made blue.
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Yeah, I'm probably overreacting. It may not be why the Subach is blue, but it is why the Mehku is a different color than the Subach. Making them the same would be a step backwards IMO.
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the original media has them start off bright red then transition to blue, going from hot to cold, implying that they are petering out as they go, the new effect has them go from blue to red implying they start of weak and feeble, and get stronger.
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Except that when you think about wavelengths, blue is higher in energy than red. Implying the exact opposite of what you're saying...
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except when you talk about a person's perception, the eye is dramatically less sensitive to blue, and we have millions of years of evolution telling us that the color of fire is hot, not to mention all that personal experience of putting your hand of a red hot burner as a child.
we are not talking physics here, we are talking aesthetics and to a lesser degree psychology.
blue is a soothing calming color, red is the color of danger, it's why stop signs aren't blue.
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But the very center of fire is in fact blue, and the hottest point of the flame.
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Bobbau's right.
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But the very center of fire is in fact blue, and the hottest point of the flame.
Rule of Cool invoked, I'm afraid...
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Bobbau's right.
I should also mention stars are the same way, blue stars are hotter than red stars.
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we are not talking physics here, we are talking aesthetics and to a lesser degree psychology.
I am perfectly aware of the physics behind temperature and wavelength, but Bobbau is nonetheless correct.
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I think we can go either route, to be honest I never liked this color shift, neither retail nor mediavps one.
Mediavps Mekhu was an improvement, as it was always light blue.
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I have an extremely difficult time imagining a laser/flame that is turning blue because it is losing energy. There's something screaming at the back of my head saying "THAT'S WRONG".
Now, if it faded to black, then I could agree with you, but a color shift to blue doesn't strike me as losing energy, at all, and it shouldn't to anyone that's educated in the physics behind temperature and wavelength.
Mediavps Mekhu was an improvement, as it was always light blue.
This. Whatever you do, don't change the Mekhu.
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Mediavps Mekhu was an improvement, as it was always light blue.
AFAIK, The Mekhu shifted to red in Mediavps as well.
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No, the MVPs mehku shifted from blue to teal (or the reverse)
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But the very center of fire is in fact blue, and the hottest point of the flame.
unfortunately it's wrapped in the red/yellow part so what you see is not blue, but white.
I have an extremely difficult time imagining a laser/flame that is turning blue because it is losing energy. There's something screaming at the back of my head saying "THAT'S WRONG".
Now, if it faded to black, then I could agree with you, but a color shift to blue doesn't strike me as losing energy, at all, and it shouldn't to anyone that's educated in the physics behind temperature and wavelength.
unfortunately its shifting from dark blue to bright red, if it was a blueish white that shifted to a dark red, you might be able to justify it, but that would be a radically changed weapon effect, though I guess we are dealing with that already.
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Bobbau's right.
I should also mention stars are the same way
The stars are right? The great old ones awake?
*hides*
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No, the MVPs mehku shifted from blue to teal (or the reverse)
$Name: @Mekhu HL-7
+nocreate
@Laser Bitmap: Mekhu_Bitmap
@Laser Glow: Mekhu_Glow
@Laser Color: 0, 30, 220
@Laser Color2: 220, 30, 0
$Impact Explosion: Mekhu_Impact
$Impact Explosion Radius: 2
$Decal:
+Texture: Tiny_decal
+Radius: 0.1
Not in the mediavps version I have. Either way it's a matter of preference. Perhaps it was different in an older version.
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Damn it, did someone ninja-change it already? :|
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If you absolutely must have a technobabble explanation... perhaps the blue part is just "more coherent", so the red part dissipates leaving the purer blue part to reach maximum range?
Then again, subluminal lasers...
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It's not about having a technoblabble explanation. It's about making sense, and looking good.
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It's not about having a technoblabble explanation. It's about making sense, and looking good.
Er... I guess what I meant was, "if you absolutely must try to make sense out of it"
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it's not about making sense it's about looking cool.
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Looking cool and making sense is better than looking cool and not making sense. I think blue lasers are pretty cool.
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You know what, someone should start an initiative. It should be called the "CUSTOMIZE YOUR MEDIAVP INSTALLATION IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING" initiative.
Get it out of your heads that what goes into the MediaVPs is semi-canon or semi-sub official or whatever. Don't like something, you can easily overwrite it for your own personal use.
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You know what, someone should start an initiative. It should be called the "CUSTOMIZE YOUR MEDIAVP INSTALLATION IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING" initiative.
Get it out of your heads that what goes into the MediaVPs is semi-canon or semi-sub official or whatever. Don't like something, you can easily overwrite it for your own personal use.
That I already do.
Still, it ticks me off as I know how often good stuff gets replaced and never resurfaces. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, OLD 3-D SHOCKWAVES, OR RATHER, I'M NOT SINCE THEY'RE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND ANYMORE)
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The what? 3D is still 3D and still the same POF and image files, so I don't understand.
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http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=56424.msg1145330#msg1145330
This.
It doesn't seem like the 2d/3d shockwave for the masses one is the correct shockwave effect, at least not to that screenshot.
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But they're awful! :shaking:
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Well, those are red. The FS2 VP shockwave is blue, and the MediaVPs are an enhancement over Retail effects. And while I'm sure we can ADD red ones and assign them case usage, total widespread defacto usage is probably not in the cards.
We need to focus on enhancing and/or adding to the Retail based concepts and content, not just willy-nilly wholesale replacement of it.
Those red one's do look hot though. I'll see what can be done. We may opt for an unsupported (as in, won't have table validation or the like if a table is used) Extended Package that can be at least certified to work with the MediaVPs for community content to go into that can storage this sort of stuff.
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I'm not pushing for those shockwaves to be reintroduced, but the fact that they're now basically gone (unless you have them?) is what I was trying to highlight.
I can keep replacing the subach/mehku effect on my own end, but what if someone else wanted to do that, but the effects are gone?
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Well, in this case it's a simple TBM edit, not a resource replacement. But I get the gist of what you mean.
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Maybe have a few optional packs that users can submit for use alongside the MediaVPs listed somewhere. Like a "orange shockwaves pack" or something.
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An old assets VP pack on FS mods?
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Perhaps there can be an optional add-on pack (such as MV_Advanced) that will make most of the new effects either like retail or like an older FSU. Like a "retail" pack or "classic pack"
You know, could be named things like MV_Retail or MV_Classic366 or something. People would get it if they want to.
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Maybe have a few optional packs that users can submit for use alongside the MediaVPs listed somewhere. Like a "orange shockwaves pack" or something.
That sounds like a good idea.
I kinda liked those teal afterburners too :P
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I said the same thing about packs for the different versions of beamglows.
Everyone said to do it myself. :doubt:
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I really like the red Subach so I think we should keep it. How about a compromise, we keep the red subach as the new subach, and use the old subach graphics for the mekhu? Seems like a good compromise.
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I really like the red Subach so I think we should keep it. How about a compromise, we keep the red subach as the new subach, and use the old mehku graphics for the mekhu? Seems like a good compromise.
Fixed.
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Honestly, I think keeping the Mekhu red is fine, because it is, after all, just another variation of the Subach to be fitted onto Vasudan craft.
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But it looks UGLY red, coming from the green glow on the Tauret etc.
Not so much an issue with the Terran craft.
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I think we need a new poll. I agree Mekhu should be bluish/green.
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I really like the red Subach so I think we should keep it. How about a compromise, we keep the red subach as the new subach, and use the old mehku graphics for the mekhu? Seems like a good compromise.
Fixed.
That's not what I meant. Please don't change my posts.
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Then you were proposing something irrelevant, as the MVPs Subach effect neither looks good as the Mehku (when compared to the MVPs Mehku effect), nor is "canonical", which are the two primary factors at work here.
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Then you were proposing something irrelevant, as the MVPs Subach effect neither looks good as the Mehku (when compared to the MVPs Mehku effect), nor is "canonical", which are the two primary factors at work here.
That happens to be your personal opinion. This is also completely irrelevant, since your personal opinion isn't canon either.
While I agree with you (about the Mekhu looking better than the Subach) I don't think you should be going around "fixing" people's posts. It generally makes you look like a twat.
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K. I think this is starting to degenerate from the topic at hand. Droid803, Snail, thank you both for your feedback on the subject. We will take the poll into advisement as we examine the effects that are in usage (with the goal of adding to them and diversifying them) and we'll see what we come up with.
Over all, it seems that people like the changes to the Subach and would like to see that, with the Mehku being a point of dispute. Operating on that assumption, I'll see if I can come up with some solutions on that effect.
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K. I think this is starting to degenerate from the topic at hand. Droid803, Snail, thank you both for your feedback on the subject. We will take the poll into advisement as we examine the effects that are in usage (with the goal of adding to them and diversifying them) and we'll see what we come up with.
Over all, it seems that people like the changes to the Subach and would like to see that, with the Mehku being a point of dispute. Operating on that assumption, I'll see if I can come up with some solutions on that effect.
Sounds good. :)
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K. I think this is starting to degenerate from the topic at hand. Droid803, Snail, thank you both for your feedback on the subject. We will take the poll into advisement as we examine the effects that are in usage (with the goal of adding to them and diversifying them) and we'll see what we come up with.
Over all, it seems that people like the changes to the Subach and would like to see that, with the Mehku being a point of dispute. Operating on that assumption, I'll see if I can come up with some solutions on that effect.
Sounds good. :)
Yep :nod:
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Over all, it seems that people like the changes to the Subach and would like to see that
where did you get that? the poll says only 30% like it, 40% don't like it.
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Hum, reread the thing, 40% said they liked to see the Subach get back to retail colors.
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41.2%
With 32.4% saying they are indifferent.
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Yea, I think those poll options don't fit for majority of voters.
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Anyway. If this WERE to make it in, then new impact effects woild need to be made (as they still go from pink to blue) and that would need more than a simple .tbm edit.
EDIT: Or not, I just made one myself.
All I did to get this done is to swap the color and color2 values, and then make the weapon map use aloqua_red (Which happens to be the same bitmap as the Subach, but red instead of lots of frilly colors)
The current orange/red Mekhu (not released due to uncertainty) does the same, but color1 has slightly more green in it, and it uses the orange bitmap from the Subach's frilly color changes.
Anyway. The intent behind making this was, in fact, doing it myself. However, like I said before, I figured other people might want it to.
For now I have separated the Mekhu into a different VP.
If you use MV_Advanced, bring in the A-MV_Adv**** for whatever weapon you're using. The Mekhu one works with any color.
Want a blue mekhu? Simply don't extract any of the Mekhu ones.
Also, get the Red Subach Impact VP if you don't want them to be pink. This works for the Mekhu as well.
Here you go:
[attachment deleted by admin]