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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: S-99 on March 03, 2010, 07:34:13 pm

Title: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 03, 2010, 07:34:13 pm
I hate steam. I can applaud it for it's efforts of making games through steam worth the money to help crack down on piracy. But, the client itself is really turning out to be some slow restrictive DRM. It takes forever to connect, forever to install games, and you can't play anything unless you have the latest updates. To top it off, offline mode hasn't wanted to work. After that i have to reinstall the games because of a microsoft visual C runtime error that occured during install (the install time is ridiculous).

Plus if you forgot your username, email, and password for your steam account, then something like orange box is ready for the garbage.

Steam really only should be used as a community portal, game store, means for updating and cataloging your games from steam, and should be a little less restrictive. Aside from that, being able to play the games independent of steam is something of a stoners dream as a way of putting it.

Upsides to this is that someone got me orange box for christmas years ago (no loss of purchase if i throw it away), and i did a lot of deducing to break into my old steam account (the steam client "i forgot my login ****" feature can be used to see what account names and emails do or do not exist in the steam account database).

It doesn't matter which way i look at this, i wasted 8 hours getting into my old steam account and game installation to still not be able to play games.

I do not recommend getting games through steam.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Rick James on March 03, 2010, 07:37:39 pm
It's even more pointless, because there are pirate groups out there that will create custom installers and cracks for Steam games anyway, making Steam's anti-piracy measures effectively useless.

Penny Arcade got it right: the pirates always win, given a long enough timeline.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Nuclear1 on March 03, 2010, 07:39:38 pm
Quote
Steam sucks

Steam does indeed cause a high level of suction. 
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 03, 2010, 07:42:14 pm
S-99, you might want to try Impulse.  It is a community portal, games catalog/update platform, and a game store, and it does not require online authorization for you to be able to play your games, unless the game's publisher has added DRM of their own (EA did this with Crysis: Warhead, Spore, RA3, and ME1).
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 03, 2010, 08:44:24 pm
I'll check out impulse, but i'm more of a classic gamer. I'm only running steam because i have too for right now at least. I'll check out those pirate installers if they do work, i do for a fact own orangebox and it is registered to me. I mean ****, steam takes like 5 mins to login, yahoo messenger takes seconds.

Currently finally got the game installs off the ground. Everything runs great in linux through wine. My only gripe is if the third party installers will work in wine (they probably will).
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Dark RevenantX on March 03, 2010, 09:28:59 pm
Steam gave me no problems and starts up in a couple of seconds.  Wonder what's going on.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: blackhole on March 03, 2010, 09:34:11 pm
I was once installing steam on my little brother's computer and the installer sat there doing nothing for almost 20 minutes before suddenly finishing.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Nuclear1 on March 03, 2010, 09:54:33 pm
Steam gave me no problems and starts up in a couple of seconds.  Wonder what's going on.

Steam gave me no problems..then I turned it on.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Nemesis6 on March 03, 2010, 10:01:11 pm
Steam's alright, I guess... I just hate the pipes.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 03, 2010, 10:43:00 pm
Steam is unflexible. And if you don't write your **** down, you're nearly ****ed, if not fully ****ed. I'll see how calling up tech support works for my friend with the hl2 and counter strike games he has. He forgot his password, and the answer to the secret question. He has the cd key and everything else though, i'll get to see how much steam tech support will help him out or if he just throws the games in the garbage. It's one of the two.

Yes he did try the password reset option for steam, but i found it to be quite stupid compared to other password reset options. The steam password reset sends an email to your email associated with steam. The email has a verification code, and asks for your secret question answer. I find this to be too much. Other services on the internet simply send you an email with a link to click to reset your password (it's gotten to be that easy because your email is password protected and is associated with the service you requested the password reset from; basically you've provided enough authorization).

My gripes with steam among how slow and cludgy it is, is that it's too easy to have perfectly good games that you'll  never be able to play anymore.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Hades on March 03, 2010, 11:10:54 pm
I must admit that I'm not a fan of Steam, my little brother registered Portal on his account so now I can't register it on mine, and you have to have Steam running to play either Valve or Steam-bought games. Not to mention for some reason when I try to change some account info, even if I put my info in right, it just keeps me at the account login window... :\
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: iamzack on March 03, 2010, 11:12:50 pm
Quote
Steam sucks

Steam does indeed cause a high level of suction. 

that could come in handy
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: MP-Ryan on March 03, 2010, 11:31:12 pm
I've never understood all the griping about Steam; I actually prefer to buy my games through it.  Offline mode (the few times I needed it) worked flawlessly, and frankly I love the auto-updates; I don't like spending my time finding and downloading patches (anyone tried to navigate the nightmare that is EA for the Mass Effect 1 patches recently?  Yeah... it makes you really appreciate Steam).  As for DRM, it's one of the least ass-tastic DRM schemes out there compared with the **** EA loads in their products.  As for load times, I bought ME on disc and it takes longer to load that than any of my Steam games; the platform launches in less than 10 seconds and I can be in-game in any of the games in under 20 more (depending on the videos/load screens).

Honestly, it's probably the least painful distribution platform in existence.  I can't remember the last time I bought a game from a physical store; the Steam Christmas sales usually keep me in games for the rest of the year (and for cheap!)

Also, Settings - Verification is the best defense against both a lost password and getting your account hacked.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: CP5670 on March 03, 2010, 11:39:38 pm
The only things I have bought on Steam are a few cheap titles, usually $10 or less. I don't expect to be able to play the Steam games indefinitely, but at those prices I don't really care. I would certainly never buy a full-priced game on there.

Quote
Offline mode (the few times I needed it) worked flawlessly, and frankly I love the auto-updates; I don't like spending my time finding and downloading patches (anyone tried to navigate the nightmare that is EA for the Mass Effect 1 patches recently?  Yeah... it makes you really appreciate Steam).

I have never had trouble finding patches on Filefront by just using Google, even for obscure games. Auto-patching can be annoying because there have been cases where a patch broke something or made the game worse in some way. C&C3's expansion and Fallout 3 come to mind here.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 04, 2010, 12:16:31 am
The only games I have on my Steam account are those I bought via the Orange Box, but I've never had a single problem with it.  I have a rather old and certainly crappy machine, yet Steam loads quickly and updates even faster.  I could easily see myself foregoing buying physical copies and just purchasing new stuff through it, though I haven't yet.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: mxlm on March 04, 2010, 12:28:02 am
Well, I for one endorse Steam as a platform. Their bargains are great and I've not had any problems getting the games to work.

you can't play anything unless you have the latest updates.

Yes you can. Turn off autoupdating. Right click, properties, updates. Now you only update the game(s) when you want to. Though you are stuck with whatever the latest version was when you installed.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 04, 2010, 12:45:30 am
No, Steam will still update the game when you try to start the game.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 04, 2010, 02:14:30 am
That's the problem with steam, it locks you in. But, i however do agree with you about what steam promotes. The fact that the games through steam have too many strings attached to steam is a big downer. I'd rather steam just be a store, automatically updates your games, and keeps the community aspect of it, at the same time it'd still be used as a way to register your game and the only way to pull updates.

It'd make steam and the games for it a little more manageable. A more flexible form of drm that says, you want to play the game go for it as long as you register (which will be forced), the string attached would be the fact that the only way to update games is through steam only.

It'd help facilitate the playing of games without steam and only keeping steam around when it's necessary. And like i mentioned about people who don't have all of their stuff.

How good is steam tech support? Sure, you can have verification, but verification doesn't mean **** if you can't do anything with it (this is akin to steam tech support telling you to **** off). Their whole system fosters a good deal of untrustworthiness towards their user base. This fact based on how much bull**** there is to steam for being able to play games all the way to steam account salvaging. The only thing befitting of a system that doesn't trust you is to not trust them.

I'm on dialup right now, i got steam working, but now i have to wait for all of the game updates to finish before i can play. I'd just like to pause the updating (which you can do) so i can play after all of this wasted time (clicking play on a game with the update paused just prompts the game to finish updating before you can play).
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Colonol Dekker on March 04, 2010, 03:37:14 am
I Don't think I mentioned it in the AVP game thread, but I bought the actual DVD media. Two of em in the box.
Normally this should install in fifteen minutes to half an hour. reasonably.
 
 
So first thing the installer does is fire up steam, re-download itself. Ask for a login (luckily I write my stuff down), I pop in my auth code. It doesn't ask me to specify a folder which is BULL**** then two HOURS later it finishes the first disc. So I swap it out for number two. Another fifty minutes. And done. I click the checkbox marked as 'launch game' or whatever them click next or ok or whatever it's called.
 
So . . . . . . . . Nothing happens. I spy an update window by my installed progs, it's gonna take ages on my limited connection. I think, a bit of ARMA2 demo or DOW2 demo will keep my patience in control. Except, when steam reinstalled itself my DEMOS WENT WITH THE OLD VERSION :wtf:
 
 
I hate steam like fat people hate exercise.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: QuantumDelta on March 04, 2010, 05:11:07 am
Only issues I've had with steam are because GfWL and 2k are "*)%@£*$(%&$)(*^.

I stab the bioshock 2 team for ACTUALLY managing to make a game worse than bioshock 1.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 04, 2010, 05:59:25 am
What about the people outside the US with no credit card. There's retail physical media, but retail still needs it, and the number of games "conveniently deciding to need it" is rising, and then there's the idea of achievements, many of which I find useless and make no sense aside from providing an avenue for idiot emo kids to go ego-stroking when they have nothing apart from the damn game and slapping their face on the book, and... nevermind.

And then there's the issue on regional pricing...

I'd never call it awesome. It's a lesser evil, but evil's still evil.

The sad part starts when I want to, say, intro a game mod to people - how do I even play multiplayer when, ironically, I'm the only one with the original media and everyone's taken the "less cumbersome" route? And since the entire gaming population where I'm at practically doesn't give a **** about mods and plays only the most popular and/or popular but ****-arsed games (those ad-supported free games of recent times come to mind, and they're FULL of cheaters and hackers) to rock the nation, to them the "less cumbersome" method suits their purposes more than the ability to get a mod to work right via way of originals...
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: starbug on March 04, 2010, 06:24:51 am
The problem i have with steam is that it won't let you play until the game has downloaded the latest patches which renders offline mode pretty much useless because you have to spend ages waiting for the updates to come through before you can use it, even if you pause an update it still won't let you play. Then there is the whole physical versions requiring steam to play which i believe is plain wrong, esp when the box doesn't say it is a requirement to play! ie Silent Hill 5  :nervous:, and then there are release date problems for physical versions. I got Fear 2 a day after it was released in the UK and when i tried to install it and steam kept telling me the game is unavailable in the UK, i had to wait a week before i could play!

Steam could be brillant if is was just a bit more flexible and forgiving like Stardocks Impulse, who understand that not everyone in the world has a good internet connection and they don't punish you for it. I have never had a problem with that and you can play games straight away without have to download patches, it also doesn't require you to keep running the program in the back ground and it doesn't punish you for buying the Disc versions i.e Sins of Solar Empire.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 04, 2010, 07:32:47 am
I'm just going to stick with free games from now on, and awesome redone source code projects like fso. I was thinking about giving away my orange box, which means i'd be giving away my steam account for free, but that's prohibited by the steam license agreement. Also the license agreement prohibits the sale of a steam account. Giving away the game cd wouldn't work since the cd key is tied into the steam account the game got registered with. If you ever see a used copy of orange box or another steam game for sale on ebay or something, don't buy it because it's an SOL deal since most people doing this don't realize the thing with the cd key and the steam account (and if they are selling it with the account credentials to play then that's illegal according to the steam license agreement). And you're not allowed to transfer games from one steam account to another after 90 days (you know, because steam prefers people to buy games than see one game get passed around by hundreds of people, if this could be done i'd help facilitate it (more exciting than tracking a chain email)).

I am trying to salvage something i'm treating like was my own investment (it was a christmas present), but idk if i can wait for those huge updates to finish on dialup just to play the games. I'm still really contemplating throwing it in the garbage. I still want to give portal a play through if i can, and at least play all of the hl2 episodes.

Big news, i was able to play hl2 for half an hour after i got the games installed a second time. And i was good, figured i'd spend the time beating hl2 before i started on the episodes. I save my game and quit, then steam found an update for hl2 :ick: Now i have to wait for huge updates on everything :mad: ****IT!!! The updates only take less time if you got like a 3megabit connection (considering that 128kbps dsl in alaska is like 60$ a month, you can understand why i opted for dialup which is half the price while at the same time still insanely expensive for such a lowly connection).

I do download big stuff on my dialup, it takes like a day or two, i can still surf the web in the mean time just a little slower (the only thing dialup has prevented is youtube). But, steam game updates i'm not really considering as being worth my time, as opposed to the quake4 linux executable so i could play the game on ultra quality (quake4 works perfectly in wine, except no matter what you do, the game is stuck in low quality graphics mode) to have some kind of stress test for what the gts 250 was really made for. The graphics test was great, quake4 still sucks (quake2 was way better for single and multi). Instead of game updates for steam, i'm putting my time in for nexuiz.

Consider the fact that the games on the orangebox dvd were released and working enough to play through, that's all i want to do. I don't care about having the latest updates for orangebox, the game on the dvd works good enough as is for a play through. I just want to play through as is, and then dumpster.

My grandma got me orangebox for christmas a couple of years ago (i haven't been able to play it until now actually). I love mom#2 a lot, and she gets me some really great stuff for christmas. In this case not so great (people aren't perfect), but i am going to play through all of the games at least once before it goes in the dumpster to honor the person who got it for me and somehow cherish this gift before trashing it. Because steam prohibits giving away of a steam account to a friend (steam even prohibits you logging into steam so a friend can play a game or two in your steam collection), i can't return the game, and i don't like the bull**** it entails, so really this is the only way i see about getting anything done...play, then trash...no possibility of play, then trash.

I'd go ahead and happily transfer the games to any one of your steam accounts freely. I'm still researching the ability to transfer. Somebody should be able to enjoy what my grandma got for me if it isn't going to be me enjoying it. And yes i'd still be *****ing about steam even if i had a faster connection.

EDIT: Yes i keep *****ing. But, for all of those with a steam account really ought to read the steam subscriber agreement (http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/). Just the "registration and activation" part is all you'll need to help you understand more about steam in the area of selling accounts, giving them away for free, or letting a buddy on to play a game or two (you'll also notice they hold you personally responsible for whatever happens on that steam account). I know it's a subscriber agreement, and i keep saying license, but i don't see how much different this is to an end user license agreement other than that steam says "subscriber" instead (and combine it with the fact that steam is a licensing service). Either way, this subscriber agreement tells you what you can and cannot do. Don't be like the guy who sold his steam account with 139 games for $1000. He obviously didn't read crap. Found here (http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/01/17/selling-steam-accounts-on-ebay-could-get-you-into-trouble/).
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: phatosealpha on March 04, 2010, 08:40:44 am
Couldn't you just politely ask someone with the games in question on steam to send you a DVD after fully updating?
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 04, 2010, 09:17:37 am
Why? I have the games on a dvd (idk what happened to the other dvd that has team fortress 2, but that's a game i don't give a crap about), but i still need to wait for them to update. The fact that i installed them first from the dvd means that i will spend a hell of a lot less time downloading stuff.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: TESLA on March 04, 2010, 10:15:07 am
I use steam, Impulse, GOG & Direct2drive.

I must say, that by far, steam sucks balls.


Direct2drive is sweet and easy to use as is Impulse & GOG. Ive had nothing but problems with steam before. Dont like their whole €1 = $1 either! Really pisses me off!!!
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Fenrir on March 04, 2010, 11:47:59 am
What about the people outside the US with no credit card. There's retail physical media, but retail still needs it, and the number of games "conveniently deciding to need it" is rising, and then there's the idea of achievements, many of which I find useless and make no sense aside from providing an avenue for idiot emo kids to go ego-stroking when they have nothing apart from the damn game and slapping their face on the book, and... nevermind.
This might be a little off topic, but when done right achievements can improve a game's longevity or replay value by providing you with new ways to play the game. The new radio hunt achievement in Portal is a perfect example of this. But for every genius move like that, there are going to be the ho-hum achievements like "HAY U BEAT A LEVEL HERE'S AN ICON FOR NO APPARENT REASON"
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Nuclear1 on March 04, 2010, 01:31:53 pm
Quote
Steam sucks

Steam does indeed cause a high level of suction. 

that could come in handy

Give it a ball and we've got a Dyson.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 04, 2010, 01:46:58 pm
No offense, S-99, but developers can't, and indeed shouldn't, continue to design with 56k users in mind in this day and age.  It's the 21st century...it's time to move on.  If Internet access in Alaska is really that abysmal, then maybe you'd be better off moving to a more civilized part of the country.  Lord knows you couldn't pay me enough to live in a place where DSL is the best option.

Also, I'd love to know how you'd think Valve would be able to enforce a ban on your buddy playing your games on your Steam account with your permission. :p

This might be a little off topic, but when done right achievements can improve a game's longevity or replay value by providing you with new ways to play the game. The new radio hunt achievement in Portal is a perfect example of this. But for every genius move like that, there are going to be the ho-hum achievements like "HAY U BEAT A LEVEL HERE'S AN ICON FOR NO APPARENT REASON"
This is a good point and deserves repeating.  I honestly don't mind even the "Beat this boss, here's an icon!" achievements, since they're a fun way of seeing just how many people have started playing a game yet never managed to beat it.  But the more creative achievements out there can add legitimate replayability to a game.  One of the best I've personally seen in that regard is the infamous "Little Rocket Man" for HL2 Episode 2.  Dragging that gnome along with me through the entire course of the game was a legitimate chore, but it gave me a real sense of accomplishment when I pulled it off.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: MP-Ryan on March 04, 2010, 07:29:09 pm
I also have to chime in one more time to say Steam's customer service is generally excellent; I know multiple people who've had their accounts hacked and in every case they got them back with a minimum of effort.  The only complaints have been VAC bans against hacked accounts - but to be fair, if some hacking douchebag got VAC banned and all they had to do was claim their account was hacked to get it lifted that would kind of defeat the point of VAC bans to begin with.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: phatosealpha on March 04, 2010, 09:34:58 pm
Why? I have the games on a dvd (idk what happened to the other dvd that has team fortress 2, but that's a game i don't give a crap about), but i still need to wait for them to update. The fact that i installed them first from the dvd means that i will spend a hell of a lot less time downloading stuff.

Steam allows you to back up games to DVD with all the patches and what not installed.  You'd still have to wait to download any new ones, but someone could certainly send you a dvd with fully updated software, then it's just a matter of copying it to your own steam directory.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mikes on March 04, 2010, 10:05:57 pm
Impulse > Steam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Securom lol.

Frankly... in my opinion Steam isn't half bad. Compared to the crap most publishers put on retail DVDs these times Steam is outright user friendly or in the very least: "harmless" lol.

Impulse is even better tho, no argument ;)

Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Sushi on March 05, 2010, 09:49:50 am
Impulse > Steam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Securom lol.

Frankly... in my opinion Steam isn't half bad. Compared to the crap most publishers put on retail DVDs these times Steam is outright user friendly or in the very least: "harmless" lol.

Impulse is even better tho, no argument ;)



Congratulations! It looks like you've managed to inspire MP-Ryan! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68438.msg1351504#msg1351504)
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 05, 2010, 06:58:29 pm
Yeah I'm aware that some people like the presence of achievements, no argument from me there, I probably have a friend or two who actively (or passively) goes for them without me knowing about it. Still I disdain them big-time but I'll just keep the comments to myself. :doubt:
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 05, 2010, 07:46:36 pm
I certainly see something wrong with playing a game for the sole purpose of obtaining achievements, but I can't really find a good argument against the concept as a whole for a bit of extra fun.  They're essentially a way of standardizing the little tricks and challenges that people have been attempting since the start of gaming.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: TESLA on March 06, 2010, 01:49:05 pm
Quote
Steam sucks

Steam does indeed cause a high level of suction. 

that could come in handy

Give it a ball and we've got a Dyson.

Dysons are cool
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 08, 2010, 03:49:09 am
No offense, S-99, but developers can't, and indeed shouldn't, continue to design with 56k users in mind in this day and age.  It's the 21st century...it's time to move on.  If Internet access in Alaska is really that abysmal, then maybe you'd be better off moving to a more civilized part of the country.  Lord knows you couldn't pay me enough to live in a place where DSL is the best option.

Also, I'd love to know how you'd think Valve would be able to enforce a ban on your buddy playing your games on your Steam account with your permission. :p
That's true with the whole 56k argument there. It was just part of my *****ing that after several hours of installing the games (decompressing the game archives for orangebox really does take forever) and breaking into my old account that i have to wait for all of the updates to download over my type of connection before i can play. This just really me wishing that i could pause the updates and be able to play the games in the mean time.

Do more research on alaska, this is an awesome place. There is also cable internet in alaska, but they don't have it in the neighborhood i live in right now. I find alaska to be a great deal civilized thank you. Lord knows you probably wouldn't know how to change a habit or two or temporarily forgo a luxury.

I didn't show off that i thought that valve would be able to tell if i logged into steam and let a buddy play. Frankly, they'd never know. The point was how restrictive steam is for DRM. Since i don't get to enjoy the balloon (orangebox), then nobody will be able to...baloon goes pop (orangebox in the trash).

If i were to give my orangebox away with the steam account, you wouldn't find me sitting comfy at at all. There's plenty of details about you on your steam account that you don't get to change back. I take the handling of my personal information very seriously. But, then again, we do live in a day and age where people don't think about how good of an idea anonymity on the internet is.
Steam allows you to back up games to DVD with all the patches and what not installed.  You'd still have to wait to download any new ones, but someone could certainly send you a dvd with fully updated software, then it's just a matter of copying it to your own steam directory.
That's actually very awesome, but an install dvd in this case would only be useful in saving yourself some download time (steam watches over it's games like the little kid who doesn't want to share).

The other thing about steam that's really dumb is that among being a form of DRM. And the restrictions on letting anyone else use your accont. Is that steam is designed to prevent second sales (prevention of your steam account popping up in the used games section of a store).
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mikes on March 08, 2010, 01:38:23 pm
Congratulations! It looks like you've managed to inspire MP-Ryan! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=68438.msg1351504#msg1351504)

LOL?  :lol:
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Fenrir on March 09, 2010, 05:10:29 am
Steam has its ups and downs, but in my experience the positives have outweighed the negatives, particularly when it comes to multiplayer games. I still prefer my single player games to be untethered to an internet connection (or a not-always-functional offline mode) if I can at all help it, but I'll nab a game for cheap during the sales regardless.

Also, lookie here. (http://store.steampowered.com/news/3569/) Steam and Source games for the Mac next month.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 09, 2010, 02:54:50 pm
You could always just use wine for mac if you want steam on mac right now. Steam and steam games run superbly through wine (it's the way i need to run them). Good thing steam is porting, but why wait?
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Fenrir on March 09, 2010, 04:17:33 pm
Why wait? Well, I'd have to get a mac first of all. I just think it's cool that they're porting the platform and the engine directly.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Machaka on March 12, 2010, 01:29:33 pm
(http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs126.snc3/17367_849972985193_3204886_47354737_6590595_n.jpg)

 :no:
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 12, 2010, 01:50:52 pm
And that is worse than Steam games requiring Steam installed and connected to the Internet to be able to even run?
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: General Battuta on March 12, 2010, 01:53:49 pm
Well, yeah, sort of. It's pretty trivial to uninstall Steam games locally so far as I know.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 12, 2010, 02:23:33 pm
Exactly.  All you need is a right-click -> delete.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 12, 2010, 03:24:26 pm
Right-click->Delete, in the Steam program, correct?
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: headdie on March 12, 2010, 03:34:14 pm
steam sucked when it was implemented, it sux now and it always will, it is best summed up by an avatar used by a player on my old clan's forum which showed a guy stood up bent over taking a rotating version of the steam logo up the back door
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: General Battuta on March 12, 2010, 03:39:49 pm
Right-click->Delete, in the Steam program, correct?

I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 12, 2010, 04:30:23 pm
And that is worse than Steam games requiring Steam installed and connected to the Internet to be able to even run?

Offline mode works, you jackasses.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 12, 2010, 05:25:51 pm
Right-click->Delete, in the Steam program, correct?
Yes.  It literally requires less time than going through the Control Panel.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: SpardaSon21 on March 12, 2010, 05:27:04 pm
You can do that in Impulse as well, oddly enough.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: mxlm on March 12, 2010, 05:38:01 pm
Offline mode works, you jackasses.

We all know you're a liar, NGT--oh.

(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/6947/offlinemode.jpg)
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 12, 2010, 06:17:25 pm
We all know you're a liar, NGT--oh.

For the record, sir, you have what is currently the best signature on the boards.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: General Battuta on March 12, 2010, 06:20:34 pm
Yeah, I figured it'd have enough mil-jargon to get you going.  :p
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: The E on March 12, 2010, 06:30:57 pm
But do you know where it's copied from? ;)
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: General Battuta on March 12, 2010, 06:40:42 pm
It's Stross, right?
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: The E on March 12, 2010, 06:44:24 pm
Yeah, from "Concrete Jungle"
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: mxlm on March 12, 2010, 06:51:37 pm
No, guys, it's totally Goodkind*, and you should all read the Sword of Truth (http://sandstormreviews.blogspot.com/2006/08/goodkind-parodies.html)**

*No it isn't
**No you shouldn't


For the record, sir NGTM-1R, you are very kind.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 13, 2010, 01:35:22 am
Yeah, I figured it'd have enough mil-jargon to get you going.  :p

Not at all, I just find the whole concept of Langfording people to defend against the Great Old Ones hilarous.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: General Battuta on March 13, 2010, 02:17:27 am
A LIKELY TALE.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Sushi on March 15, 2010, 10:20:46 am
I love bringing up "Scorpion Stare" whenever talking about CCTV cameras just to see who notices the reference. ;)
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 16, 2010, 05:18:23 am
DRM is a butt plug.
(http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/butt-plug.jpg)
Just because some services offer you a smaller more comfortable one; how about the idea that none of us wanted to use a butt plug at all.

That's ok, you don't own the games, you own an account name and password. You currently get the freedom to play and install the games as many times as you want, but they toss that out there as a perk. If you're being sold a game where this basic right becomes a perk. That's a slap in the face. Steam took this basic right away from you, and gave it back to you under the impression that it was a new present. Keep in mind again that you don't own the games; this perk and other things from and on steam are subject to change at steams will any day and time.

Now, keep in mind that if you read the steam license agreement, you essentially find out that their king, and you're the piece of **** in this system living under a one strike you're out autocracy.

So, steam is king and they can do what they want to you (you're no robin hood), steam takes basic fundamental things and represents them to you as ground breaking new ideas (thought police treating you sheeple like idiots),  steam is also meant to restrict second sales.

The fact that they want to restrict second sales is funny enough in by itself. Second sale is legal, this is one of gamestop's big money makers (without it, gamestop certainly wouldn't be as big as it is today if no used game section). Companies don't like second sale because they don't get any of that profit from you selling a product you bought from them to somebody else. The second sale being regarded as illegal is what a lot of companies are trying to pork over (similar to the method about the perk earlier) to the sheeple to try to stop the second hand market place (like game companies). You'll see it more and more in the future how game companies will tout that second sale is illegal for the following so called reasons despite the fact that it is illegal.

What's wrong about this is that as this message gets rebroadcasted in the future over and over again, people will believe it. What does steam do if you sell your account to someone else? If they find out it's not you operating the account, they'll ban it, which equals your customer demanding their money back (the steam license agreement makes more sense now for what in part of what it's designed to do through restriction).

Steam sucks. The whole establishment has great bargains to confuse and hide bad motives and intentions (shop at the bargain bin at fry's or something if you want cheap old games). I for one refuse to use this service any longer since it assumes everybody that uses it is a criminal, and treats everybody as such. It's demeaning and i am not a criminal.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: karajorma on March 16, 2010, 06:14:17 am
Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.

And I definitely disagree with any system that prevents me passing on a game I have tired of to a friend I think might enjoy it. I can't think of any other medium where that sort of nonsense would be accepted by the population but as soon as it becomes about computer games suddenly it's fine.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: TESLA on March 16, 2010, 02:47:09 pm
Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.

And I definitely disagree with any system that prevents me passing on a game I have tired of to a friend I think might enjoy it. I can't think of any other medium where that sort of nonsense would be accepted by the population but as soon as it becomes about computer games suddenly it's fine.

agreed but they have people by the balls on this one....
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 16, 2010, 03:26:03 pm
Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.

And I definitely disagree with any system that prevents me passing on a game I have tired of to a friend I think might enjoy it. I can't think of any other medium where that sort of nonsense would be accepted by the population but as soon as it becomes about computer games suddenly it's fine.
I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 16, 2010, 03:47:27 pm
Mongoose, this is about a service where it's impossible to salvage your purchase in any way, or even do something nice for another person with it. Not a lot of people know what steam is. I decided that i don't like butt plugs (nor the offline mode that requires you to be online). Also, i am different than you (some people do like to give away and redistribute games). While you have never given any of your games away (you must make very careful purchases...it's not impossible), i redistribute games all the time. F/OSS games for lan parties; in a time of need at a lan party with everyone not having the same game to play against each other, then i plan ahead. Instead of counter strike source, everyone for sure can play against each other with urban terror. For non F/OSS, I have given away unreal tournament, and i certainly do let people borrow the rest of my games. Doing this for non steam games has no loss or trouble associated with it, steam games the account may be banned at any time for any reason.
You're using a service where they assume you to be a criminal, and there's a lot that comes with being treated as a criminal.

I've been to the games bargain bin at big name computer stores before. You find some really great deals on old stuff. Just like steam, except no butt plug. Years ago, that was how i came into possession of fs1 + the expansion pack for $15.
Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.
Talk about something that would be a solution for me in this big problem. But, i can see why steam doesn't do it. What's to stop giving something away after it's happened once? Nothing, eventually steam would have a user group where it's nothing but just exchanging games between members or giving them away. Impose a limit of being able to give said game away freely one time. That'd make me happy.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Dark RevenantX on March 16, 2010, 06:54:54 pm
Why not just extend the gifting systems to allow gifting games you already own?  It's the most lazy approach and it would probably work perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: CP5670 on March 16, 2010, 11:57:37 pm
I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

I don't sell my games either, but I have bought used games on ebay many times in the past, often at a fraction of the prices of new copies. Steam prevents such a market from operating. There was a guy I know on another forum who didn't realize this and bought a used Steam game from ebay, which got his entire account banned even though it was the seller at fault. Valve refused to unlock it, but I think he eventually got it back after complaining to the state attorney general's office.

Another thing I don't like about digital distribution in general is that the prices do not respond to basic rules of supply and demand the way retail games do. If a game has been out for a while and is in low demand, a retail store has to clear out their stock by reducing the price, while services like Steam can keep charging the same price since it costs them essentially nothing to carry the "stock."
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 17, 2010, 12:45:53 am
I will say that I'd never use Steam for across-the-board purchases of games, but as a platform itself, and specifically for Valve's own titles, I have no problems with it whatsoever; whenever Portal 2 and/or Episode 3 wind up getting released, I'll probably just forgo the disk and download them directly.  I do recognize that the pricing and lack-of-resale issues are valid, but in the context that I'd generally be using the service, I don't think they'd be a problem for me personally.  Like I said, this obviously doesn't have to be the case for everyone.  Even with not minding Steam, there are still games I'd prefer physical copies of, and venues like bargain bins and GOG are definitely great resources in and of themselves.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 17, 2010, 02:49:01 am
I remember back when Half-Life 2 first came out, I bought it at retail really wanting to rip out the box and play it when I got home... and then I noticed on the box in small fine print in the least obvious of places: "Internet connection required"

:mad: ---> :wtf: ---> :sigh:

:nervous:

IIRC I got it anyway but it took me a few good years before I got a system and a connection good enough for it. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if even the shop owner didn't know a thing about it. =\

I really can't say anything about the resale market since I'm also one of those first-handers-never-resellers kind of people but meh, always better to be aware of the issue and the consequences than not at all.

Quote from: Mongoose
I will say that I'd never use Steam for across-the-board purchases of games, but as a platform itself, and specifically for Valve's own titles, I have no problems with it whatsoever

probably this is my sentiment too but then again i still prefer retail hard copies. double-edged sword with a tinge of hypocrisy i guess? :nervous: :sigh:

unrelated side note: not to mention, game prices jacked up by at least $10 since the turn of the century... meh/damn...
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Klaustrophobia on March 17, 2010, 02:58:48 am
for all i care, steam can exist as an online store and be a delivery method for people who want it and don't mind the risks/considerations outlined above.  that in and of itself wouldn't affect me.

UNTIL steam is forced upon me by being REQUIRED for a PRINT copy of a game i purchased at a retail store, with NO indication this was the case.  the only reason i have steam is because i bought FEAR2.  i checked the box after the steam crap popped up, and i couldn't find it mentioned that it required steam installed.  if it is there, it was clearly being hidden, which says a lot.  it wasn't even worth it, seeing as how bad a pile of crap that game was.  and now i can't sell it like you guys have pointed out.  (speaking of which, anyone want a copy of battlefield 2? :P)
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: karajorma on March 17, 2010, 05:31:48 am
I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

So you've also never lent a game to a friend to let him see if he liked it?
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 17, 2010, 11:48:45 am
couldn't find it mentioned that it required steam installed

Seriously?

Damn. :sigh:
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: General Battuta on March 17, 2010, 11:55:40 am
for all i care, steam can exist as an online store and be a delivery method for people who want it and don't mind the risks/considerations outlined above.  that in and of itself wouldn't affect me.

UNTIL steam is forced upon me by being REQUIRED for a PRINT copy of a game i purchased at a retail store, with NO indication this was the case.  the only reason i have steam is because i bought FEAR2.  i checked the box after the steam crap popped up, and i couldn't find it mentioned that it required steam installed.  if it is there, it was clearly being hidden, which says a lot.  it wasn't even worth it, seeing as how bad a pile of crap that game was.  and now i can't sell it like you guys have pointed out.  (speaking of which, anyone want a copy of battlefield 2? :P)

Battlefield 2!? Yes please! I've been dying to get my hands on a copy now that I have a good 'net connection.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 17, 2010, 03:23:21 pm
I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

So you've also never lent a game to a friend to let him see if he liked it?
Nope.  Sadly enough, I never really had a close enough friend to do that with. :p
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 18, 2010, 05:27:26 pm
Why not just extend the gifting systems to allow gifting games you already own?  It's the most lazy approach and it would probably work perfectly fine.
Steam isn't going to do this because people would just keep gifting their games to everyone into perpetuity (people would abuse the system). Should steam let you gift at least all of your games at least once, and not let the person who just got your games be able to gift them? That'd be awesome. But, this is all about restriction, something steam's great at.
I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.
Ever buy used games?
There was a guy I know on another forum who didn't realize this and bought a used Steam game from ebay, which got his entire account banned even though it was the seller at fault. Valve refused to unlock it, but I think he eventually got it back after complaining to the state attorney general's office.
The seller's a dumbass who couldn't put one and two together. Then again this is something a lot of people who buy the hard copy version of the games for steam usually don't understand about them. The only thing that sets aside the hard copy from the digital download is the cd key, and that cd key is linked to your steam account (after that, less downloading time).
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 18, 2010, 06:09:59 pm
I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.
Ever buy used games?
Yes, but only for consoles.  And I'm honestly trying to get away from that as well, or at least from GameStop.  With the extremely low amount of games I buy, I'd rather support the developers as much as possible.  The only real exception would be old games that are no longer in-print in any form.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: S-99 on March 19, 2010, 05:36:43 am
It doesn't matter if it's for pc or not. You occasionally buy used games (that's all that mattered). I fully support your efforts for supporting the developers of awesome games though.

Please keep in mind the pc is just another console. Otherwise multi-console releases like assassins creed 2, orange box, etc, would include a release for pc also (not all console games today include a release for pc, but more and more of them are).
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Mongoose on March 19, 2010, 04:29:06 pm
It doesn't matter if it's for pc or not. You occasionally buy used games (that's all that mattered). I fully support your efforts for supporting the developers of awesome games though.

Please keep in mind the pc is just another console. Otherwise multi-console releases like assassins creed 2, orange box, etc, would include a release for pc also (not all console games today include a release for pc, but more and more of them are).

I realize this, but all the used-game stores I've ever seen don't sell used PC games.  The only way I'd have of buying one would be via something like Amazon, and at least up until now, I've never had to do that.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: BloodEagle on March 19, 2010, 04:31:50 pm
You can find some awesome deals on used PC games via eBay.
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: headdie on March 19, 2010, 05:20:57 pm
is anyone getting an issue at the moment with it suddenly and randomly maxing your (in my case single core) cpu?
Title: Re: Steam sucks
Post by: Vretsu on March 25, 2010, 09:02:43 pm
The real reason that Steam sucks is that the user is bound to the whim and vitality of a third-party service. The user can't even resell his/her games. That really, really sucks. The only people who benefit from Steam are the game publishers and maybe the developers.

Other services (like GamersGate) allow the user to download and install the actual game files. You get an honest to goodness file folder that can be copied, burned to a disc, etc. I'm plugging Gamersgate because I just bought and installed EU3 from that service months ago and haven't had to look at or think about the distribution program since.