[Sushi]

I love bringing up "Scorpion Stare" whenever talking about CCTV cameras just to see who notices the reference.

[S-99]

DRM is a butt plug.

Just because some services offer you a smaller more comfortable one; how about the idea that none of us wanted to use a butt plug at all.

That's ok, you don't own the games, you own an account name and password. You currently get the freedom to play and install the games as many times as you want, but they toss that out there as a perk. If you're being sold a game where this basic right becomes a perk. That's a slap in the face. Steam took this basic right away from you, and gave it back to you under the impression that it was a new present. Keep in mind again that you don't own the games; this perk and other things from and on steam are subject to change at steams will any day and time.

Now, keep in mind that if you read the steam license agreement, you essentially find out that their king, and you're the piece of **** in this system living under a one strike you're out autocracy.

So, steam is king and they can do what they want to you (you're no robin hood), steam takes basic fundamental things and represents them to you as ground breaking new ideas (thought police treating you sheeple like idiots),  steam is also meant to restrict second sales.

The fact that they want to restrict second sales is funny enough in by itself. Second sale is legal, this is one of gamestop's big money makers (without it, gamestop certainly wouldn't be as big as it is today if no used game section). Companies don't like second sale because they don't get any of that profit from you selling a product you bought from them to somebody else. The second sale being regarded as illegal is what a lot of companies are trying to pork over (similar to the method about the perk earlier) to the sheeple to try to stop the second hand market place (like game companies). You'll see it more and more in the future how game companies will tout that second sale is illegal for the following so called reasons despite the fact that it is illegal.

What's wrong about this is that as this message gets rebroadcasted in the future over and over again, people will believe it. What does steam do if you sell your account to someone else? If they find out it's not you operating the account, they'll ban it, which equals your customer demanding their money back (the steam license agreement makes more sense now for what in part of what it's designed to do through restriction).

Steam sucks. The whole establishment has great bargains to confuse and hide bad motives and intentions (shop at the bargain bin at fry's or something if you want cheap old games). I for one refuse to use this service any longer since it assumes everybody that uses it is a criminal, and treats everybody as such. It's demeaning and i am not a criminal.

[karajorma]

Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.

And I definitely disagree with any system that prevents me passing on a game I have tired of to a friend I think might enjoy it. I can't think of any other medium where that sort of nonsense would be accepted by the population but as soon as it becomes about computer games suddenly it's fine.

[TESLA]

Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.

And I definitely disagree with any system that prevents me passing on a game I have tired of to a friend I think might enjoy it. I can't think of any other medium where that sort of nonsense would be accepted by the population but as soon as it becomes about computer games suddenly it's fine.

agreed but they have people by the balls on this one....

[Mongoose]

Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.

And I definitely disagree with any system that prevents me passing on a game I have tired of to a friend I think might enjoy it. I can't think of any other medium where that sort of nonsense would be accepted by the population but as soon as it becomes about computer games suddenly it's fine.

I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

[S-99]

Mongoose, this is about a service where it's impossible to salvage your purchase in any way, or even do something nice for another person with it. Not a lot of people know what steam is. I decided that i don't like butt plugs (nor the offline mode that requires you to be online). Also, i am different than you (some people do like to give away and redistribute games). While you have never given any of your games away (you must make very careful purchases...it's not impossible), i redistribute games all the time. F/OSS games for lan parties; in a time of need at a lan party with everyone not having the same game to play against each other, then i plan ahead. Instead of counter strike source, everyone for sure can play against each other with urban terror. For non F/OSS, I have given away unreal tournament, and i certainly do let people borrow the rest of my games. Doing this for non steam games has no loss or trouble associated with it, steam games the account may be banned at any time for any reason.
You're using a service where they assume you to be a criminal, and there's a lot that comes with being treated as a criminal.

I've been to the games bargain bin at big name computer stores before. You find some really great deals on old stuff. Just like steam, except no butt plug. Years ago, that was how i came into possession of fs1 + the expansion pack for $15.

Worse than that, steam prevents you giving away games you have tired of for free.

Talk about something that would be a solution for me in this big problem. But, i can see why steam doesn't do it. What's to stop giving something away after it's happened once? Nothing, eventually steam would have a user group where it's nothing but just exchanging games between members or giving them away. Impose a limit of being able to give said game away freely one time. That'd make me happy.

[Dark RevenantX]

Why not just extend the gifting systems to allow gifting games you already own?  It's the most lazy approach and it would probably work perfectly fine.

[CP5670]

I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

I don't sell my games either, but I have bought used games on ebay many times in the past, often at a fraction of the prices of new copies. Steam prevents such a market from operating. There was a guy I know on another forum who didn't realize this and bought a used Steam game from ebay, which got his entire account banned even though it was the seller at fault. Valve refused to unlock it, but I think he eventually got it back after complaining to the state attorney general's office.

Another thing I don't like about digital distribution in general is that the prices do not respond to basic rules of supply and demand the way retail games do. If a game has been out for a while and is in low demand, a retail store has to clear out their stock by reducing the price, while services like Steam can keep charging the same price since it costs them essentially nothing to carry the "stock."

[Mongoose]

I will say that I'd never use Steam for across-the-board purchases of games, but as a platform itself, and specifically for Valve's own titles, I have no problems with it whatsoever; whenever Portal 2 and/or Episode 3 wind up getting released, I'll probably just forgo the disk and download them directly.  I do recognize that the pricing and lack-of-resale issues are valid, but in the context that I'd generally be using the service, I don't think they'd be a problem for me personally.  Like I said, this obviously doesn't have to be the case for everyone.  Even with not minding Steam, there are still games I'd prefer physical copies of, and venues like bargain bins and GOG are definitely great resources in and of themselves.

[asyikarea51]

I remember back when Half-Life 2 first came out, I bought it at retail really wanting to rip out the box and play it when I got home... and then I noticed on the box in small fine print in the least obvious of places: "Internet connection required"

---> --->



IIRC I got it anyway but it took me a few good years before I got a system and a connection good enough for it. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if even the shop owner didn't know a thing about it. =\

I really can't say anything about the resale market since I'm also one of those first-handers-never-resellers kind of people but meh, always better to be aware of the issue and the consequences than not at all.

I will say that I'd never use Steam for across-the-board purchases of games, but as a platform itself, and specifically for Valve's own titles, I have no problems with it whatsoever

probably this is my sentiment too but then again i still prefer retail hard copies. double-edged sword with a tinge of hypocrisy i guess?

unrelated side note: not to mention, game prices jacked up by at least $10 since the turn of the century... meh/damn...

[Klaustrophobia]

for all i care, steam can exist as an online store and be a delivery method for people who want it and don't mind the risks/considerations outlined above.  that in and of itself wouldn't affect me.

UNTIL steam is forced upon me by being REQUIRED for a PRINT copy of a game i purchased at a retail store, with NO indication this was the case.  the only reason i have steam is because i bought FEAR2.  i checked the box after the steam crap popped up, and i couldn't find it mentioned that it required steam installed.  if it is there, it was clearly being hidden, which says a lot.  it wasn't even worth it, seeing as how bad a pile of crap that game was.  and now i can't sell it like you guys have pointed out.  (speaking of which, anyone want a copy of battlefield 2? )

[karajorma]

I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

So you've also never lent a game to a friend to let him see if he liked it?

[asyikarea51]

couldn't find it mentioned that it required steam installed

Seriously?

Damn.

[General Battuta]

for all i care, steam can exist as an online store and be a delivery method for people who want it and don't mind the risks/considerations outlined above.  that in and of itself wouldn't affect me.

UNTIL steam is forced upon me by being REQUIRED for a PRINT copy of a game i purchased at a retail store, with NO indication this was the case.  the only reason i have steam is because i bought FEAR2.  i checked the box after the steam crap popped up, and i couldn't find it mentioned that it required steam installed.  if it is there, it was clearly being hidden, which says a lot.  it wasn't even worth it, seeing as how bad a pile of crap that game was.  and now i can't sell it like you guys have pointed out.  (speaking of which, anyone want a copy of battlefield 2? )

Battlefield 2!? Yes please! I've been dying to get my hands on a copy now that I have a good 'net connection.

[Mongoose]

I can agree that that is an issue for some people, but I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

So you've also never lent a game to a friend to let him see if he liked it?

Nope.  Sadly enough, I never really had a close enough friend to do that with.

[S-99]

Why not just extend the gifting systems to allow gifting games you already own?  It's the most lazy approach and it would probably work perfectly fine.

Steam isn't going to do this because people would just keep gifting their games to everyone into perpetuity (people would abuse the system). Should steam let you gift at least all of your games at least once, and not let the person who just got your games be able to gift them? That'd be awesome. But, this is all about restriction, something steam's great at.

I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

Ever buy used games?

There was a guy I know on another forum who didn't realize this and bought a used Steam game from ebay, which got his entire account banned even though it was the seller at fault. Valve refused to unlock it, but I think he eventually got it back after complaining to the state attorney general's office.

The seller's a dumbass who couldn't put one and two together. Then again this is something a lot of people who buy the hard copy version of the games for steam usually don't understand about them. The only thing that sets aside the hard copy from the digital download is the cd key, and that cd key is linked to your steam account (after that, less downloading time).

[Mongoose]

I know I've never sold or given away one of my games, nor do I see myself doing so in the near future.  For someone like me, this restriction isn't a problem.

Ever buy used games?

Yes, but only for consoles.  And I'm honestly trying to get away from that as well, or at least from GameStop.  With the extremely low amount of games I buy, I'd rather support the developers as much as possible.  The only real exception would be old games that are no longer in-print in any form.

[S-99]

It doesn't matter if it's for pc or not. You occasionally buy used games (that's all that mattered). I fully support your efforts for supporting the developers of awesome games though.

Please keep in mind the pc is just another console. Otherwise multi-console releases like assassins creed 2, orange box, etc, would include a release for pc also (not all console games today include a release for pc, but more and more of them are).

[Mongoose]

It doesn't matter if it's for pc or not. You occasionally buy used games (that's all that mattered). I fully support your efforts for supporting the developers of awesome games though.

Please keep in mind the pc is just another console. Otherwise multi-console releases like assassins creed 2, orange box, etc, would include a release for pc also (not all console games today include a release for pc, but more and more of them are).

I realize this, but all the used-game stores I've ever seen don't sell used PC games.  The only way I'd have of buying one would be via something like Amazon, and at least up until now, I've never had to do that.

[BloodEagle]

You can find some awesome deals on used PC games via eBay.