Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Dragon on July 14, 2010, 06:41:25 pm
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Because a lot of ships have been recently drawn out of modeldumps and converted, I'd like to draw FSU attention to this: http://www.mediafire.com/?l20y2dnzlzmwzxm
It was sitting on my HD in Axem's modeldump, then I lost it, but I found that the old download still works, extracted and uploaded the model.
It's available in .obj, .wings and .mtl formats, all credit goes to Axem (so far... :)).
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Is this the new one or the old one?
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It's the old one.
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Should use the newer one IMO.
That one looks more badass.
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Newer one?
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I'd like to see this "HTL Charbydis", as I most certainly have never heard of one being made. Screenshots please? ;7
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It's this one.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/newerchary-1.jpg)
It still needs just a teeny bit more work before I'll give it out. I'll hand it out on Sunday, regardless if I think the model is finished or not.
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That is yummy.
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Wow. Pointy.
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Looks like a b*tch to uvmap :shaking:
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Looks like a b*tch to uvmap :shaking:
indeed, a real pain in the ass, but it looks quite cool also.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/newerchary-1.jpg)
Are the frontal arrays going to be destroyable?
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It's this one.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/NarfPics/newerchary-1.jpg)
It still needs just a teeny bit more work before I'll give it out. I'll hand it out on Sunday, regardless if I think the model is finished or not.
Remember the talk about swirling gasses or what not through transparency layers in the radomes? That would be awesome.
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Why would there be swirling gases inside a sensor suite? :wtf:
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Cause, they're tachyon-enabled arrays or something technoblabbly like that, and swirling gas clouds goes well with it.
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No no no no no no. Please no.
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Agreed. Please no swirly gassy cloud business..
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Yeah, swirly gas clouds sound daft.
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Tachobabbleon powered (glowmapped) will be awesomesauce though.
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A nice ship, and there is no need to fill it with TechnoFlatul gas.
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As for the UV-mapping business, couldn't this be done with a "main" UV-map combined with a "trim" map, containing all the little bits used as trim? Sort of like how in retail models there was often a mix of large section textures, tile maps, and trim... except trying to limit it to one texture for trim and a single unwrapped map for everything else.
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I don't see the need for gas in the sensor pods. That sounds like a Vasudan thing to me. I mean the things inside the pods are supposed to spin, 'cause I heard you like spinning so I put spinny things on your spinny things so you can- I'll stop.
Aardwolf, that could work but trim takes up barely any space on a UV map. Since most of it will probably be hidden by the AO map and its small, you can reduce the size of it in the UV map and just litter it in any spot you could fit it.
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Yay. I like spinning.
/you spin me right round baby
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Yay. I like spinning.
/you spin me right round baby
-right round, like a record baby, right round, round round. You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round.
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Yes, yes, we all know the lyrics too.
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Loving the model.
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Needs more pie in the tins.
Also, what'd you make that in :wtf: looks like sketchup. AFAIK Sketchup can't be imported to FS2, if so.. You've got another three modellers for the project.
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Also, what'd you make that in :wtf: looks like sketchup. AFAIK Sketchup can't be imported to FS2, if so.. You've got another three modellers for the project.
:wtf: :wtf:
(1) AFAIK Axem uses Wings
(2) Sketchup can be imported into fs, just not directly.
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Oh Kay.
/me hi-fivs blowfish
Informative answer high-five :D
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http://www.sectorgame.com/axem/files/models/unfinished/BetterChary.rar
It is Sunday, and I have kept my promise. Have fun with this 18k poly monster of mine. Feel free to re-optimize it if you wish. :p
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http://www.sectorgame.com/axem/files/models/unfinished/BetterChary.rar
It is Sunday, and I have kept my promise. Have fun with this 18k poly monster of mine. Feel free to re-optimize it if you wish. :p
thanks Axem!
Is this release part of JAD 5?
because the .obj is fine, the 3ds is missing some parts. :P
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I blame Wings' 3ds exporter. It is crap. Use OBJ instead then!
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...any progress? :D
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How's the GTA Internets doing?
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UV'd, time to get texturing. I need me some motivation.
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1897/aolol.jpg)
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Looks good, can't wait to see it with textures done.
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Holy ****, that's a good model. Definitely looking forward to seeing it in-game.
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Yeah I remember this back when. Good to see some progress will be made in it! Cheers!
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That...is sexy.
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Excellent.
Make sure the AO under the spinny dome things makes sense. Remember that left over shadowing when the dome has rotated away or been destroyed will look fugly.
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:eek: :eek: :eek:That is.... gorgeous. Looks great Sab0o!
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Frak. Yes.
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Wait, Saboo's texturing it? (Somehow too blind to read poster usernames and such)
Can't wait to see the excellent end product, if the Artemises are anything to judge by.
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I can NOT ****ing wait for this next Media VP release cycle.
If someone HTLs the Demon in time (and maybe the Hades makes it in), oceans will be jizzed.
...that being said, this model needs a great texture to compliment it.
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There's an untextured HTL Demon lying around in Mediavps WiP models folder, IIRC made by Trashman.
So, I hope somebody will take a look at it and finish it. Same goes for Hippocrates.
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I can NOT ****ing wait for this next Media VP release cycle.
If someone HTLs the Demon in time (and maybe the Hades makes it in), oceans will be jizzed.
...that being said, this model needs a great texture to compliment it.
Hades is in.
There's an untextured HTL Demon lying around in Mediavps WiP models folder, IIRC made by Trashman.
So, I hope somebody will take a look at it and finish it. Same goes for Hippocrates.
How do you know what's in the WiP folder? We don't have a Demon in there as far as I can tell... We do however have the Hippo and a host of other things that may or may not get finished.
More on topic though is this little number. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrnT-na8V4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrnT-na8V4)
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hooooooooooooly
...That is just ****ing brilliant.
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hooooooooooooly
...That is just ****ing brilliant.
inorite? That was the quintessential idea I had from day 1 of seeing this model, and mjn pulled it off perfectly.
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How do you know what's in the WiP folder? We don't have a Demon in there as far as I can tell... We do however have the Hippo and a host of other things that may or may not get finished.
Some time ago, I asked about status of HTL Hippo, Demon and a couple of other modes. I was told they're in WiP folder in SVN, but nobody has time to work on them.
I know that Trashman did made a HTL Demon and even made a thread in FSU board where he uploaded the mesh.
Anyway, it's great to see more progress on Charybdis.
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The HTL Demon is not worth using without additional mesh work.
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Love the swirly gases. Don't know what they do. But they do look cool.
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That swirling gas effect would be cool to use on the Scorpion's engines as well.
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And people say that animated glow maps aren't worth the performance :P
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*Axem approves of this progress*
But I better be able to see those spinny things I put in the domes... or else...
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The gas is cool, no doubt. But I always got the feeling of crystal or something when I looked at the detection arrays. Similar in materials if not usage with the Vasudan version.
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Me too, but this is pretty cool too.
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*Axem approves of this progress*
But I better be able to see those spinny things I put in the domes... or else...
The "gas" was made into the glass texture in a semi-transparent fashion to allow the modeled bits in the domes to still be "visible". You're welcome.
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(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/41/thread1x.jpg)
here's what we have at the moment, the gas effect is still being worked out (not in-game yet.)
comments and ideas are very welcome!!!!!!
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You're a beast Sab0o, she's looking gorgeous. :yes:
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Damn that was fast, looking awesome so far.
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That's awesome :yes:
I'm curious as to what you are planning to do with the bluish window areas. On the original the front ones have the same texture as what is now the swirling gas zone, which might be a little out of place now. I see that you matched the side window things to that color too, which looks good to me, especially since the corresponding glow area on the wings from the old model has been dropped.
Can't say I have much in the way of suggestions except for the spine not to be covered in arbitrary looking window lights like on the original. Maybe you could replace those with long yellowish glows in the grooves of the dark part? Anyway, it's already looking great :)
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It looks almost intimidating... I mean it's a flying coffin when attacked. So great work!
Maybe there is space for two versions? One lighter like the retail one and a SpecialOps dark version like the current one is looking.
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Maybe there is space for two versions? One lighter like the retail one and a SpecialOps dark version like the current one is looking.
Good idea. I prefer something similar to retail one, but dark SOC version is also interesting and would be a good option for modders and campaign makers.
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You can just edit the textures yourself. It's not that hard.
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You've got it coming the right way already :yes:
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More blue around the ship besides the radome would be nice...
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Already looking like a piece of cutting edge technology, instead of a drab concrete slab with spinny dishes.
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This is actually quite awesome.
If you don't mind me asking, what's left to be 'worked out' with the gas textures?
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Just spent a whole day getting the maps near finished. Gas texture whenever Zacam gets round to it.
The red glowy spikes will no doubt end up changing colour/become multi-coloured. Not final.
(http://i.imgur.com/Q2Uzf.jpg)
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multi colored spikes like raiiiiinbow plz
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amazing work!
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TBH, plating lines seem a bit too irregular to me, not to mention they're too dark. You made it looks like something from BP. And I think that the orange lights at the sides should be more yellow.
Otherwise, it looks good.
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TBH, plating lines seem a bit too irregular to me, not to mention they're too dark. You made it looks like something from BP. And I think that the orange lights at the sides should be more yellow.
Otherwise, it looks good.
If by 'something from BP' you mean not 'blurry old retail' then yes, it looks good.
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It makes me not want to destroy the GTA Internets ever again. :)
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By "something from BP", I mean "looking too much like next-gen BP stuff". Sab0o's "personal" style seems to have a lot in common with Esarai's (this can also be seen on HTL Medusa, but to a lesser extent), whose creations are extensively used in BP.
My complaint is that it doesn't resemble retail "style" enough, original texture was very angular and regular, looking less high-tech than this. I do like this texture, but I don't think it's a good idea for Charybdis (theoretical Mk.2 version could be textured like that and it'd be fine though), since it just screams "BP" to me.
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...
Right. So a vessel mentioned as being the cutting edge needs to look older?
**** it. It's the old "if it's not tilemapped, it ain't true to FS" debate again, which this isn't the time or place for. This is awesome work, and no matter whether you feel it's "FS2-ish" enough or not, it will be in the MediaVPs. When it's released, we'll eagerly look forward to your version of the texture that is more in line with your sensibilities.
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I'm not saying anything about tilemapping, just adding more 90 degree angles and regularity to the lines. It is an awesome work, but IMHO, it's too much like BP designs. It makes the AWACS look like it's from the same yard as Solaris and the new Narayana. FS2 ships have, in general, quite utilitarian, angular look. Irregular panels or varying shades of gray are staple of Esarai's designs, especially Solaris and Kvasir.
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Once more, once it's released, you will be able to remap it to your hearts' content.
Oh wait.
I forgot. It's not tilemapped. So you would have to learn how to actually texture stuff in order to do it.
And honestly, have you even looked at the texture? It's still quite utilitiarian. It's still definitely a military vessel. It still looks the part. The only thing that makes it different from the original is that it doesn't look like something made 10 years ago.
Oh, and finally, have you even LOOKED at the old model?
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtacharybdis-old.jpg)
Because it really doesn't look all that different to the new one, you know.
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You can clearly see that bars on the side are windows (thus should be yellow, like the ones on front boom), engines are not armored at the rear and hull texture is much more regular with less contrast between panels. The panels are also smaller. My main complaint is that Sab0o's texture references Solaris (which has a rather distinctive texture pattern) a bit too obviously.
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I agree with Dragon. I like current textures. They're awesome, but maybe for some next-generation Charybdis. Current ones don't reflect original Charybdis textures. Hull plating from Sab0o's version is totaly different than retail Charybdis textues. Hades, Iceni, Colossus, Typhon... They're the examples how the mediavps models should look after revamp.
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I think we all appreciate the effort some people are making to give us good-looking, upgraded models of old retail ships, but... If these are the maps that are going to be included in mediavps, I would like them to be totally redone. Not because I don't like them. I don't like them, that's a fact, but the reason is that they simply look bad and they don't look too FreeSpace. And it is not because there is no tilemap. It is because they are simply poor. I don't know how many filters have been used and lights in fact look awesome, but plating looks really cheap and artificial. Maybe that is because this is still WIP, but there is still style which is not correct. As someone already mentiond, it looks really 'bp' and it wouldn't be even bad if it wasn't a mediavps texture. But it is. Saab0o has his own style which isn't bad, but clearly differs from original FS2 style, which instead of being killed, should be rather preserved since it is FreeSpace Upgrade project.
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(http://i.imgur.com/Q2Uzf.jpg)
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtacharybdis-old.jpg)
Look at these pictures, polish hate brigade (I think that's what I'm gonna call you from now on). LOOK AT THEM. Then point out how one isn't a clear upgrade over the other, or how it doesn't look FS-ish all of a sudden.
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Look, I can totally understand if you think these textures aren't "fs2-style". All it means is you didn't even look at the model. Here, why don't you look at it now:
(http://i.imgur.com/Q2Uzf.jpg)
See those sharply-defined gray tiles? That's about as "FS-style" as it gets without also being repetitive and low-res. Yes, it does also look high-tech, which it should seeing as how it's a top-of-the-line experimental cruiser by the time of FS2.
Stop acting like a bunch of unappreciative ingrates and make your own texture if it ruins FS so much.
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maybe making the grey less dark can make the cables thinner.
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I was beginning to wonder if Dragon had a point when I was reading these replies.
but then I
(http://i.imgur.com/BXuPe.jpg)
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Really the most significant change is the fins look like they can move, which doesn't even take away from it since it looks good.
Has anything been done as far as the blue inside the domes go?
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Yeah, they'll be all blue and glowy when it comes to release time.
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Looking at that comparison has gived me a few ideas actually. Thanks for making me post it.
Has anything been done as far as the blue inside the domes go?
We have a glowy animation that will be used when zacam finalizes it.
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I have no problem with the HTL version's textures. If you make the glowy blue part of the domes any well (and I assume you will), then I'll be 100% satisfied.
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First of all, pattern on parts of the ship where there were unique textures have been changed for unknown reasons. To me they were kind of characteristic and now they are gone. Where there were tilemap there is much artistic freedom, but there are few things that I find noFS. First is the noise[??] on the plates. In original FreeSpace it was less chaotic, often lighter on one side and darker on the other, here it is... well. Chaotic :p Also, plating lines are too dark. In original freespace plating lines were more focused on reflections these lines caused than here. Here the lines are nearly the only thing present. When I look at it I also have an impression that plates are really sharp. I don't know how to describe it, but I think it is visible. I find FS plates smoother.
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(http://i.imgur.com/Q2Uzf.jpg)
(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Gtacharybdis-old.jpg)
Look at these pictures, polish hate brigade (I think that's what I'm gonna call you from now on). LOOK AT THEM. Then point out how one isn't a clear upgrade over the other, or how it doesn't look FS-ish all of a sudden.
Awww... Polish hate brigade. I feel honored Mr. My-taste-is-only-good-taste-and-my-subjective-opinion-is-only-righteous-opinion
Now back to the ground.
If you think the Charybdises are silmilar, take a look at this:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/2jbqyr4.jpg)
THIS is something similar. Iceni is the best example. Textures are THE SAME as in retail Iceni, but UPGRADED. The same color scheme, the same textures layout the same details, the same armour plating, the same everything, but uvmapped and refreshed. This is quintessence of VA's texturing genius.
This is Freespace UPGRADE Project, not the Freespace Artistic Reimagination Project. Idea of FSU is upgrade everything, not add artistic inventions of the autors.
Open your eyes and look. You're trying to change the aiming of the FSU to your subjective tastes, and you don't care about everyone who think different than you. Keeping everything the same as in FS is the most important. Leave your artistic invention to mods. I won't continue this pointless discussion because I told you it so many times and it's starting to be boring. Kudos only for Sab0o, for having keenness to texturing all of these models.
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(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4710/1293097120117.png)
This is the only thing going through my mind as I read these latest posts.
These new textures look so much better than that old random tilemapped brick wall texture its not even funny. Polish hate brigade gonna hate.
Also that iceni is a terrible terrible example. That's not even an upgrade in any kind of shape or form. What the hell man :blah:
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Open your eyes and look. You're trying to change the aiming of the FSU to your subjective tastes, and you don't care about everyone who think different than you. Keeping everything the same as in FS is the most important. Leave your artistic invention to mods. I won't continue this pointless discussion because I told you it so many times and it's starting to be boring. Kudos only for Sab0o, for having keenness to texturing all of these models.
That is decidedly untrue. I am not "changing the aims of FSU". I am not influencing people to change models according to my tastes. However, unlike you, I know how to give proper feedback.
Oh, and let me get back to this statement of yours: "Keeping everything the same as in FS is the most important. Leave your artistic invention to mods."
You just basically said that our work here is meaningless and misguided. Good job on that. Now get out there and make your own version of these models, present them to the public, and then we'll have this conversation again.
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(http://i.imgur.com/A8eV5.png)
This is the Freespace UPGRADE project. It makes **** BETTER.
You could if you so desire play FS with completely unchanged textures, models and effect. YOU COULD PLAY RETAIL FS. Hell you could play without the FSO if you want. In fact why don't you go do that and leave the rest of us- who actually want good-looking models- alone.
This is the only logical conclusion you can possibly come to. If you really do want nothing changed then play retail FS, since by your own definition it's better than any awesome work the FSU could possibly create.
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Total lurker adding my 2 cents. The upgraded Charybdis is incredible, and totally retains the feel of the original (if some people want the lighter gray colorization, fine, whatever). That upgraded Iceni is *yawn* by comparison, although I suspect it's an older HTL at this point, so comparison to a brand new HTL is perhaps unfair. Why tilemap when the author made such beautiful custom paneling on the new HTL?
As an outsider, I feel if someone puts in the effort to remap a model, and does it as well as it's been done in this thread, some minor changes in colorization and plating are more than allowable. Particularly in this case, where care was made to make the Charybdis look cutting edge, as it is described.
GREAT JOB!
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oh my, 3WW broke here.
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Firstly, at the moment I consider this a heated discussion, but just be aware that it's moving at times towards a dowright row, and I'd prefer it if people didn't do that :)
Secondly, I like the model, the defining factor, as far as I can tell, for FSU models is that they resemble the original and they do not break single- or multiplay experience compared to the original, The colour of glowy bits etc is entirely in the hands of the person who took the trouble to make the model and is not really a factor in the functional acceptability of the model.
People can argue over aesthetics, that's fine, so long as it remains civilised, but the final decision lay in the hands of the creator for details and the FSU team for functionality and are primarily based on the above conditions.
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Ok, what I see going on here is as follows:
The original model is a very simple one. Axem extrapolated some detail into it while keeping with the general design of the ship, and did so very well.
The tile patterns in the old textures just don't happen to fit very well with most of the changes made to the ship. Where there were flat planes (where simple paneling made mostly of rectangles) worked for the original model, it wouldn't exactly fit in well with the new model. Sab0o's textures are made for the new model, and they complement each other wonderfully, while still making it obvious that it's the Charybdis that we all know.
If the modeler had wanted to stick to the "details" present in the original textures, there would have been precious few changes he could have made to the model, because there simply wasn't much to work from on the textures. Artistic freedom in adding detail that fits into the design would still have to have been used, while sticking to original texture tile patterns would have limited that process.
As it is, we have a wonderful model, with extremely high-quality textures, that isn't yet finished (seriously, it'll look much more like the charybdis once the domes glow blue), and people are complaining because not all the patterns from original texture tiles are replicated.
Why should they be replicated when the model now has detail of its own? Tile mapping was, at the time of making of FS2, pretty much a cheap way to make flat planes on a model look like they had some details on the surface. We've been doing texture upgrades and normal maps for them to increase that illusion of detail for retail models, but by far a new, detailed model is always a better solution.
The fact of the matter is that this looks much better than the original charybdis and, most importantly, fits in quality-wise with other upgraded assets, so it'll most definitely go in. If someone has an objection, they're free to re-texture the ship with textures that more closely resemble original tiled patterns, but I can pretty much tell the results won't look better than this because of the aforementioned reason: The model has changed, and the tiles were designed for flat planes.
Feel free to try, and we encourage all the attempts at improving things. If you make a different texture, and if majority of the community deems it superior to this version, then by all means we'll make use of it. However I am highly doubtful on how and why replicating the tile patterns would make the texturing better. I suppose it could be possible to trace panel lines from the tiles, but they are pretty dull to begin with and there are no guarantees they will work at all with the new model, but like said - feel free to try.
Now, since this is turning into a cable thickness debate, I propose we put it on hold until we see how the ship actually looks in finalized form, with the glowy domes and all.
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The retail models for both the Charybdis and the Iceni are prime examples for :v:'s sloppy modeling/texturing work for FS2.. i.e. some random geometry with some tile map slapped on it. This always made me cringe when thinking that they made fully UV-mapped cruisers for FS1, but resorted to this rush job for FS2... and that style is in my opinion totally not worth of preserving :ick:
So, any deviation of the (FS2) retail look can only be better in my book.
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The only really little thing I'd personally like to see tweaked would be to make those orange windows a bit more yellow-ish, since that's more in keeping with the "FS2 window color" look that most of the ships use. Other than that, I think the haters are pretty crazy. This is hot stuff.
Honestly, besides the cool rotating domes, the retail Charybdis is easily one of the ugliest ships in the game. Anything's an improvement.
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Hate brigade can keep hating, this is pure win. I can't wait to see the glowy domes being... well, glowy.
While we're on the subject of replacing old tilemaps, though, I'd be interested in seeing the Aeolus getting an upgrade akin to this one (the current one looks fine, but looks a lot like the GVCv Sobek in terms of HTL quality, so yeah).
DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK COCKS
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WTF u smoking sigtau.
the Aeolus has a UVmapped texture. it has no tilemaps.
the Sobek looks and is for all intents and purposes is retail except for its multipart turrets >.>
did you even look at the aeolus and put it next to the retail one? the difference is big. do the same with the sobek, and I can barely tell the difference (assuming both are using mediavp tiles)
maybe u mean deimos.
or orion.
or ヘカテー.
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This thread is the reason why the Orion will never get a good HTL...
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While I can almost see how people get the impression the HTL Chary textures are similar to the Solaris', The Solaris has faaaaar more contrast, and the plating density is nowhere near as high as the Chary.
Sab0o, this model is awesome, and I think it fits the GTVA design themes perfectly. Keep up the good work.
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It does make you wonder, though, if the :v: modellers had access to the facilities available to the FSO/FSU team, how would these models have looked? I get a feeling that a lot of stuff was just done using stock textures, not as an aesthetic choice by the modellers themselves, but because the textures were already available and it's cheaper, easier and faster to use what you already have than to create new ones.
I suppose that's part of the point of reimagination, not simply a question of upping the textures, because that's just polishing what was, at the end of the day, a trade-off between convenience, speed and production costs and putting them onto the same low-detail models. I suspect any member of the original FS2 team would look at that and say 'That's more how we would have liked the Charybdis to look if the game engine and deadline-setting had permitted it'. Well, now it does.
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I think the model is a definate upgrade. It's different from the fs2 one sure, but I think that's more because it's been modernized rather than changed from a design perspective. Assuming the blue domes are going to look awesome, only one thing really strikes out at me. Many of the grey plate faces have little to no detail except around the edges. Maybe that's the intent to give it a 'clean' look. I'd really like to see it rendered in game in some nebula mission before I say much more.
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The model and texture are fantastic, actually.
Everyone must bear in mind that when HTLing ANY ship, a large portion of what is to be done will come from the artist. There simply are too few decent references to tell what V would have done. Take the Sath... Shape you can copy, but since the textures are largely tile maps, any details must come from your head, as I am positive that V would not have modeled the repeated details in the retail textures if given the chance to.
In the case where textures are not tiled, then they are truly the only reference we have... there is no telling the motives behind the design choices of the textures, be it due to stock/available textures or intentional design. Which ones to keep and which to toss are entirely up to the designer.
The other issue that arises is one that arises anytime anyone tries to redo something from way back when. Take Deus Ex: HR. It is, by itself, a good game. If you pick it up and expect to play the original Deus Ex, you will likely be disappointed. Now apply that to these models: On its own, a fantastic model. Compare it to what you think the Charby should look like, that image that has been in your head for years, and will not match up.
In both the cases of the game and models, members of the community will have a choice: Either except the new, or be constantly let down. That does not mean that you must like every model that comes through the door; instead it means that you need to judge a model based on the craftsmanship. Does it look well made? Does it look Terran? Does it look like a ship that is built for the task it was designed for? This model is a "yes" on all three accounts, so it gets an A in my book.
If you walk in an and ask the question: "Does it look like I think V would have wanted it to look?" you will almost always answer "no", occasionally "kinda", and very seldom ever "yes."
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I'm not saying anything about tilemapping, just adding more 90 degree angles and regularity to the lines. It is an awesome work, but IMHO, it's too much like BP designs. It makes the AWACS look like it's from the same yard as Solaris and the new Narayana.
90 degree angles are ugly. That's why you'll rarely find many on my models, because I try to get rid of them. And no, it doesn't look a damn thing like Esarai's ships.
FS2 ships have, in general, quite utilitarian, angular look.
No they don't. The Hecate is curvy, as is the Deimos and Aeolus, Myrmidon, Artemis, Boanerges, etc. Need me to continue? I think ****ing not.
Irregular panels or varying shades of gray are staple of Esarai's designs, especially Solaris and Kvasir.
That's all the FS2 terran tilemaps are, irregular panels and shades of grey. Learn to use your ****ing eyes and not your nostaglia goggles.
I agree with Dragon. I like current textures. They're awesome, but maybe for some next-generation Charybdis. Current ones don't reflect original Charybdis textures. Hull plating from Sab0o's version is totaly different than retail Charybdis textues. Hades, Iceni, Colossus, Typhon... They're the examples how the mediavps models should look after revamp.
Who the **** do you think you are, telling people how things should look?
Awww... Polish hate brigade. I feel honored Mr. My-taste-is-only-good-taste-and-my-subjective-opinion-is-only-righteous-opinion
Now back to the ground.
If you think the Charybdises are silmilar, take a look at this:
THIS is something similar. Iceni is the best example. Textures are THE SAME as in retail Iceni, but UPGRADED. The same color scheme, the same textures layout the same details, the same armour plating, the same everything, but uvmapped and refreshed. This is quintessence of VA's texturing genius.
The Iceni is a ****ing terrible example, it's just the tilemaps made into a uvmap, which is fairly ugly. Vasudan Admiral himself ****ing hates the Iceni.
This is Freespace UPGRADE Project, not the Freespace Artistic Reimagination Project. Idea of FSU is upgrade everything, not add artistic inventions of the autors.
Open your eyes and look. You're trying to change the aiming of the FSU to your subjective tastes, and you don't care about everyone who think different than you. Keeping everything the same as in FS is the most important. Leave your artistic invention to mods.
Go **** off and die. If we can't use any artistic license then we shouldn't even try to upgrade any of the models, because something will always be different and we'll always have a better way of doing something. Were it not for artistic license, my Medusa would have never been as good as it is.
The retail models for both the Charybdis and the Iceni are prime examples for :v:'s sloppy modeling/texturing work for FS2.. i.e. some random geometry with some tile map slapped on it. This always made me cringe when thinking that they made fully UV-mapped cruisers for FS1, but resorted to this rush job for FS2... and that style is in my opinion totally not worth of preserving :ick:
So, any deviation of the (FS2) retail look can only be better in my book.
Hit it square on the head. The retail FS2 ships had awful textures and fairly bad shapes.
These new textures look so much better than that old random tilemapped brick wall texture its not even funny. Polish hate brigade gonna hate.
Also that iceni is a terrible terrible example. That's not even an upgrade in any kind of shape or form. What the hell man :blah:
Yup.
Yes, I'm angry. I'm angry because this type of nostalgia replies are what demotivate good working modelers and texturers. It's can also cause good **** to never be finished. It's baseless, rude, and just downright obnoxious and I'm sick of seeing it.
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This is Freespace UPGRADE Project, not the Freespace Artistic Reimagination Project. Idea of FSU is upgrade everything, not add artistic inventions of the autors.
As has been pointed out, you cannot have one without the other. Adding polies to a model when the end result is indiscernible from the original = fail. Only UV-mapping a series of tile maps, where again you can tell no difference at all = fail. Why? Because those are not UPGRADES, those are simply up-conversion housekeeping.
If the SCP did only that, we'd not have cool sexps, just faster retail sexps. We wouldn't have cool as hell OpenGL Features, we'd just have more hardware flexibility to current hardware. We wouldn't have more table options, we might not even have modular tables.
Our changes are not as significant as the BSG Re-imagined differences between the Cylons. Because we are still keeping to the identification of what makes the model the ship that it is. Love it or hate it, the new Medusa is still very obviously and distinctively a Medusa. The same way that this is quite obviously a Charybdis. And that is the FSU mandate: Retain the singular identification in a way that does not break or cause issues of balance for the use in Retail Campaign. Nothing in that says "preserve the exact mapping, the exact tone and don't touch a damn thing other than to upscale it". The SCP writes the code; we make it pretty.
As for all the broken up tile panels and what not, that's also been covered in detail by others, Herra put it best. And when you look at the "ears" on the Hecate and you see that, it doesn't look modern, it doesn't look futuristic, it looks like a badly tiled slab of something that is supposed to imply armor. I'd rather it look like a -functional- piece of armor, but what, your telling me that can't be re-textured from it's current appearance because that will kill the Epic Awesome? I think not.
Open your eyes and look. You're trying to change the aiming of the FSU to your subjective tastes, and you don't care about everyone who think different than you. Keeping everything the same as in FS is the most important. Leave your artistic invention to mods. I won't continue this pointless discussion because I told you it so many times and it's starting to be boring. Kudos only for Sab0o, for having keenness to texturing all of these models.
I care rather deeply about people that offer a SUBJECTIVE, POLITE and WELL ANALYZED opinion on the matter of differences between the FSU and Retail. Further, you realize that you're giving Kudo's to the texturer who is just as responsible as the modeler for changing the appearance of the model away from the retail look while complaining that we need to keep artistic license out of the project? Make up your mind.
Artistic license and passion are the things that DRIVE modelers and texturers. Anything else is just cookie-cutter stamping. Again, adding more polies to call something an upgrade when you cannot SEE the changes? Useless. Even just the simple task of rounding bevels or bezels or curves a bit more are ALL going to impact the appearance of the textured vs the perceived. And even if you do pull off a spectacular minimalistic upgrade to a model, you need to make changes in the way it's now textured to accommodate those changes, otherwise, what was the point of making them? The new Colossus serves this purpose well. The original maps were used in definable elements to mapping tho new one. And it doesn't look anything like the old one. But it is most definitely a Colossus, even if you never see the full shape of it. The elements are there, but it's not a direct case of "I just ported the tiles over to a UV and called it a day", because that just doesn't work. Same with the Typhon and the Hades.
And the old textures have extremely limited geometry to work with, so all the detail that could be implied HAD to be done by textures. And the economics of it resulted in there being a plethora of tile-mapping in FS2 for convenience sake, not out of any sense that those tiles actually aesthetically or artistically provided any semblance of the functionality for the ship (other than massively armor plated).
...the defining factor, as far as I can tell, for FSU models is that they resemble the original and they do not break single- or multiplay experience compared to the original, The colour of glowy bits etc is entirely in the hands of the person who took the trouble to make the model and is not really a factor in the functional acceptability of the model.
People can argue over aesthetics, that's fine, so long as it remains civilised, but the final decision lay in the hands of the creator for details and the FSU team for functionality and are primarily based on the above conditions.
A thousand times, this.
Some Results from Dictionary.com on the word 'Upgrade':
3: a new version, improved model, etc.
5: something, as a piece of equipment, that serves to improve or enhance
9: to improve or enhance the quality or value of
10: to improve the quality, value, effectiveness, or performance of something
Nowhere in there does it say anything about "slavish adherence to former style or direction, to eschew application of artist license or creative interpretation".
And as has already been said and is pretty much the community mantra: If you don't like it, do it or get it done by somebody else in what your idea of "better" is, I'm open and welcoming to all submissions or you can keep it to yourself, it's all the same to me. But there WILL be politeness involving disagreements over direction or artistic interpretation. There WILL be civilized debate on the matter. I'm also getting tired of people arguing against each OTHER rather than the ACTUAL ISSUES. Which I suppose can't be helped, we all form personal opinion and biases for and against each other, but we need to start leaving those behind when having these discussions.
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I was beginning to wonder if Dragon had a point when I was reading these replies.
but then I
(http://i.imgur.com/BXuPe.jpg)
This comparision is excellent in visualizing differences. In the original, there's a clear contrast between midsection, wings and nose, as well as between wings and engines. Your is uniform on it's entire lenght. There's also a structure under the dome, which is absent from your version. Light strip amidships is clearly yellow, and the engine section doesn't have plating on the stern. Red lights on antennae are a nice touch, but they contribute towards "UEF-ish" feel, which isn't a good thing (yellow or green could be better, or leave them gray and place glowpoints at the end). If you could correct these things, layout of plating should cease to matter. Also, as a minor thing, the blue strip at the front should be glowmapped and more saturated, though it's a minor thing. Also, to all emotional people out there, I'm not hating nor saying it's a bad texture, but instead try to give constructive criticism on how to make it better suited for Mediavps (if this was supposed to be a UEF ship, I wouldn't say anything).
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...There's also a structure under the dome, which is absent from your version...
Uhm.....WHAT? Do you not plainly see the rotational mechanism on the new one? If you are refering to the "paneling" surrounding the turret, then that I can agree is different, but I see no reason why that difference should make any difference at all, other than to maybe think about making the turret collar more distinctive so that it can stand out a little bit more.
As for the "clear contrast" between the midsection and wings....it's all uniformly tiled in the old one, I fail to see how that implies any contrast what so ever. And again, keep in mind that the texturing has to follow the detailing of the model, so the front main body section is more integrated with the midsection body which means there is going to be more of a distinctive shift in texturing that transition rather than tiling two discrete sections that are fused together. The new end result makes it look more like the ship was BUILT for it's purpose and actually had an intelligent design behind it, rather than being a bad lego brick-fest made out of necessity by cobbling together some spare parts. Which is more what the old model conveys vs the new model and the textures bring that about a lot more. As for the stern plating, I'll leave any adjustments of that to Sab0o's excellent taste.
And it honestly is graphically and resource wise LESS expensive to glow-map the tips to the Charybdis rather than using glow points. It also fits the shape of the rods better. As for their color, that can be easily changed and concepts tested on that, so no objection there to trying out different colors. Unfortunately, that is about the only portion of your statement that affords any modicum of agreement.
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The Iceni is a ****ing terrible example, it's just the tilemaps made into a uvmap, which is fairly ugly. Vasudan Admiral himself ****ing hates the Iceni.
You can do without putting words in people's mouths.
That said I'm not a fan of the Iceni myself, but the textures on this thing don't properly reflect how [V] would've wanted it to look, that fact is clear as day to me.
The Iceni may be a bad example, but the Orion wouldn't be the Orion without it's tiles. It would be a different ship, 'nuff said. Same goes for the HTL Hades, and the last time I checked, VA made that with... *GASP* ...Upgraded tiles.
I'll take a crack at texturing it myself if it's unwrapped already.
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the HTL Hades does not use "upgraded" tiles lolololol.
it does have some of the distinctive shapes in the tiles modelled in though.
was the last time you checked two years ago, before it had textures at all?
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I didn't mean to say it was tilemapped, I mean he tossed tiles on the UV map, unless that changed since the last render I saw of the beast. :wtf:
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but the textures on this thing don't properly reflect how [V] would've wanted it to look, that fact is clear as day to me.
Unless the dev team specifically stated this to you in private, you don't know a damn thing they would've done with anything in FreeSpace 2 if they could remake it all over again with today's hardware.
Unless that happened, you're just assuming.
Which it didn't.
In the end, whoever's contributing to upgrading assets for the MVPs can make whatever changes they want, really. This HTL Charybdis still looks like a Charybdis, take the textures off both of them, lay them flat on a wall in nothing but a solid black-and-white outline like a silhouette that you'd see in a military's "How-to Identify Your Target" poster, it still looks like the Charybdis, with higher polies.
If you want the Old Skool stuff, that's what the Retail game is for.
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I didn't mean to say it was tilemapped, I mean he tossed tiles on the UV map, unless that changed since the last render I saw of the beast. :wtf:
/me opens the texture file...
errr....no.
he did do a (exceptionally) good job keeping the look of the most distinctive tiles on it (the blue/yellow ones that run along the side), but the texture looks to me like it is "handmade" to me. There are absolutely no tiles tossed on.
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You can do without putting words in people's mouths.
That said I'm not a fan of the Iceni myself, but the textures on this thing don't properly reflect how [V] would've wanted it to look, that fact is clear as day to me.
One, I'm not. VA said it himself. Two, where the **** are you getting that information from, your ass?
The Iceni may be a bad example, but the Orion wouldn't be the Orion without it's tiles. It would be a different ship, 'nuff said. Same goes for the HTL Hades, and the last time I checked, VA made that with... *GASP* ...Upgraded tiles.
You don't know a single damn thing you're talking about. The Hades uses a fully remade uvmap. Tilemaps look like ****, the job you did on that RHA battleship of mine included. An Orion without tilemaps would look great.
I'll take a crack at texturing it myself if it's unwrapped already.
No you won't. You can't do texture-making, from what I recall.
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To be fair he did say "if it's unwrapped already".
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/me opens the texture file...
errr....no.
he did do a (exceptionally) good job keeping the look of the most distinctive tiles on it (the blue/yellow ones that run along the side), but the texture looks to me like it is "handmade" to me. There are absolutely no tiles tossed on.
Err yes.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBadDay.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/Capital05-01.png
It's clearly used in several places. Just used -well-, unlike on the Iceni.
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Err yes.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBadDay.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/Capital05-01.png
It's clearly used in several places. Just used -well-, unlike on the Iceni.
He REMADE the entire texture. None of the old texture was used once. It looks similar, sure, but that doesn't mean it's the same thing.
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:wakka:
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/me opens the texture file...
errr....no.
he did do a (exceptionally) good job keeping the look of the most distinctive tiles on it (the blue/yellow ones that run along the side), but the texture looks to me like it is "handmade" to me. There are absolutely no tiles tossed on.
Err yes.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBadDay.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/Capital05-01.png
It's clearly used in several places. Just used -well-, unlike on the Iceni.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/kc1991/HTLHadesUVmapTex.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb317/Tyrkeyz/Capital05-01.png where?
yes please? point out where its slapped onto the texture.
please.
i'm known to be blind, help me out here.
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To remake every pixel of a tilemap to that detail is insanity when you could just slap it onto the UV Map, but kudos to VA for *paying attention to it* then. The latest models I've seen from the FSU team don't even try.
Anyway this place has gone even more downhill than I imagined. I'm being told to go **** myself for having a different taste in textures? That's... I have no words, really.
And for the record, Hades, I know precisely how to unwrap and hand paint a model. Don't draw assumptions when you've nothing to base them upon.
What I'm not going to do, however, is tediously unwrap a model for a bunch of people who have a worse attitude than the ones who drool over Jinx's planar mapped junk on Discovery. I wanted to fiddle with the textures for my own satisfaction to see if I could get it to look halfway decent, IN MY OPINION. My opinion, which unlike some others here I'm not going to force on anyone.
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Don't draw assumptions when you've nothing to base them upon.
That said I'm not a fan of the Iceni myself, but the textures on this thing don't properly reflect how [V] would've wanted it to look, that fact is clear as day to me.
What I'm not going to do, however, is tediously unwrap a model for a bunch of people who have a worse attitude than the ones who drool over Jinx's planar mapped junk on Discovery. I wanted to fiddle with the textures for my own satisfaction to see if I could get it to look halfway decent, IN MY OPINION. My opinion, which unlike some others here I'm not going to force on anyone.
We just don't care for morons, is all.
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It has textures that don't sit well with my own personal view of FS 2 era junk. Yeap, that makes me a moron right there, gotcha. I'll keep that in mind in all my future moron-endeavors.
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To remake every pixel of a tilemap to that detail is insanity when you could just slap it onto the UV Map, but kudos to VA for *paying attention to it* then. The latest models I've seen from the FSU team don't even try.
Go take a closer look at the HTL Hades and tell me you could still slap that tilemap on.
That tilemap is missing a cruicial third dimension that is present on the HTL Hades' yellow girders, and piping...and...well, many other things. The result would be...well, poor, to say the least.
I'm making no comment on your taste in texture styles, but please, (to quote yourself)
Don't draw assumptions when you've nothing to base them upon.
:P
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It has textures that don't sit well with my own personal view of FS 2 era junk. Yeap, that makes me a moron right there, gotcha. I'll keep that in mind in all my future moron-endeavors.
Nah. That's not what it is. Your insistence of drawing assumptions, whether it be acting as Volition's messenger or telling everyone else how someone else did their textures is rather moronic.
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Ah okay, well fair enough then, the Charry doesn't really have very much to go by admittedly but from the vibes I'm picking up here you guys wouldn't have a problem with doing the same style thing on the Orion except in blue instead of grey.
Anyway Droid what I was saying is that you reuse the tiles where you can and custom paint on other things. Pipes? Custom paintjob. Flat blue surface? Copy paste tile map. It's a pretty situational sort of deal there...
I'm for a combination of the two personally.
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Again, argue the ISSUE not the PERSON. I won't say it again, and Hades, while you are attempting to make decent points, you could stand to tone down the (what could be perceived as) hostility please.
Hellstryker: Texturing differences aside (as in, how one would go about doing it in the first place), The Hades looks like the Hades. The Colossus looks like the Colossus, The Typhon the Typhon. And to the opinion of many, the Charybdis. The model is different and more polished which has necessitated an aesthetic shift in perception to it's texture, which has several "distinctively Charybdis" elements retained.
That it's not the same old tiles wrapped into a UV-Map is not important, because it doesn't HAVE to be that, if the artist behind texturing it doesn't roll that way. But -even if- it was textured that way, there would still have to be some adjustments to how and where those respective tiles got laid out to in order to best respect and compliment the shape of the model itself.
Yes, there are not hundreds of tiny panel lines (producing what some people would call a "brick wall" look, only metal, others call it "paneling") but there are still definitive sections of panel work that were carefully considered in terms of how they would fit to the new model while still affording the same basic color tone of the original and the retention of the suggestive shape of the model.
On those merits alone, the design of both the model and the texture (in my opinion) are an astounding Success. Both Axem and Sab0o have shown a great deal of care and attention into providing an exemplary combination of collaboration. Judged and based SOLELY on that merit alone, I don't think anybody can disagree with the factual statement that this is an awesome piece of work.
The disconnect seems to be "because it's not the same tiles, just in a UV-map". As already explained, it just can't be. Anybody willing to give the texture a shot at making it look that way can feel free to do so, and I'll be more than happy to accept it's submission if I should be proven wrong. But to my mind, having all those incessant panels that the original retail texture has and putting it on this model, would drown all the detailing done with this model.
And even if we split the difference, we start creating a product that has more "noise" to it than it needs in my opinion. This is a new, fabricated ship with a purpose. Purpose doesn't entail having things done for no apparent reason for them to be done. I don't see body panels on cars being needlessly sub-divided, I shouldn't expect to see needlessly subdivided panels on a warship.
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Again, argue the ISSUE not the PERSON. I won't say it again, and Hades, while you are attempting to make decent points, you could stand to tone down the hostility please.
Oh I know, however that's not as fun and doesn't anger him as much. :pimp:
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On those merits alone, the design of both the model and the texture (in my opinion) are an astounding Success. Both Axem and Sab0o have show a great deal of care and attention into providing an exemplary combination of collaboration. Judged and based SOLELY on that merit alone, I don't think anybody can disagree with the factual statement that this is an awesome piece of work.
It's a fine piece of work, it just doesn't roll with how the Charry would turn out in my mind. I certainly can't say I have any complaints with the mesh.
The disconnect seems to be "because it's not the same tiles, just in a UV-map". As already explained, it just can't be. Anybody willing to give the texture a shot at making it look that way can feel free to do so, and I'll be more than happy to accept it's submission if I should be proven wrong. But to my mind, having all those incessant panels that the original retail texture has and putting it on this model, would drown all the detailing done with this model.
I can understand the fear of it drowning out detail in the model, but so far as I see most of the detail is on the intricate bits such as the sensor arrays and that sort of thing, whereas the midsection of the ship is still pretty flat and using even flatter textures, which is a little off putting for me but again a matter of opinion.
As stated if somebody would be so kind as to send me the model in .3ds or .max or something I'd be happy to play around with it.
And even if we split the difference, we start creating a product that has more "noise" to it than it needs in my opinion. This is a new, fabricated ship with a purpose. Purpose doesn't entail having things done for no apparent reason for them to be done. I don't see body panels on cars being needlessly sub-divided, I shouldn't expect to see needlessly subdivided panels on a warship.
Matter of opinion there, makes sense but I personally prefer my vanilla brick panel ships. Nostalgia I suppose, d'no really.
And Hades, you don't anger me, you're just making an ass out of yourself. Give it a rest. x.x
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How about, it will start to anger me, and you really don't want that.
Keep the personal to private messaging. Or anywhere OTHER than a Release thread.
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This isn't a release thread though (yet?)
It's a WiP thread.
...though it has been rather derailed :(
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Well, if there stop being posts that I have to run a fire extinguisher over, I'll finish up the gas textures, we'll get the sub-model rotating pieces in the dome sorted out and it WILL be a release thread. :D
Or at the very least, get some updated screens and maybe a vid of the machine in action for people to "oooo" and "aaaaah" over.
And to anybody with concerns about the mapping: Nothing is finalized until the next MediaVPs come out, even after an individual Release. So really, getting hot and bothered at this point in time is counter productive, so let's just not, okay?
We will take information on all sides into consideration, but we're not here to make everybody happy. We're here to make and maintain upgrades. That different people will have a different idea as to exactly what that means in relation to it's definition, is neither here nor there for the moment and is a topic best suited to another thread.
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If you are refering to the "paneling" surrounding the turret, then that I can agree is different, but I see no reason why that difference should make any difference at all, other than to maybe think about making the turret collar more distinctive so that it can stand out a little bit more.
Yes, I am referring to that. Turret "collar" and the thing that the dome is standing on (the one with part of a circle on it), should be reflected on the new texture.
Texture on front and "wings" definitely stands out from other sections, since it's much brighter than them. I just want it to be reproduced on the new texture.
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I've sent Hellstryker the model in .3ds, let's see what he's capable of.
Enjoy working with my uv map.
(http://i.imgur.com/KH2RA.jpg)
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That is one hell of a pack job. Are you using Max 2012?
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Wings3d. Manually.
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I'm more curious about the trollface. :nervous:
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He had 60x60 pixels' worth of extra space and felt the need to fill it with something? :p
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It looks like there's a few shapes that it overlaps.
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There aren't, trust me. I'd know about it.
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Split "upgrade definition" + "Chary upgrade" please. I missed 3 pages of unrelated :yes:
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I've sent Hellstryker the model in .3ds, let's see what he's capable of.
Enjoy working with my uv map.
(http://i.imgur.com/KH2RA.jpg)
Oh christ.
Now I remember why I gave my meshes up for UV unwrapping and texturing. Where the feck did you LEARN tricks like that?
Kids, the next time you debate tile mapping versus UV mapping, remember that being able to pull this off is something that no school or university teaches.
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Hmmm? UV Mapping is pretty straightforward...
Break up the pieces by hand or auto depending on how much work you want to put into it. Apply checker pattern texture. Slide UV verticies around till there is little or no stretching and all the checkers are the same size. Pack into a defined area. Done.
UV Mapping is entirely left-brained work.
Texturing on the other hand.. well.. that requires practice like any good art.
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You forgot patience and alcohol...
Well, at least I don't notice the distortion.
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You forgot patience and alcohol...
Well, at least I don't notice the distortion.
:lol:
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You forgot patience and alcohol...
Well, at least I don't notice the distortion.
and tons of smokes, if you roll that way
:p
but yes, UV-ing is a dark, dark art. evil i would say. until you start doing it properly, forget the "auto" tools. Good for quick tile-to-uv conversions or when converting metric ****tons of textures to single uv (*glares at HW2*). But the problem with all auto "positioning" tools is that they rarely pack the stuff properly. for example, getting proper overlaps of perfectly symmetric geometry in the uv is a pipe dream if you want to do it the auto way (after you apply symmetry).
from what i've seen, from C4D and another tool, how their auto "packing" tools work, they draw a rectangle around each UV island, then punt them around together. if you have spindly bits anywhere, you'll be left with a bit of "holes" so to say, where you can alway punt in smaller UV pieces.
TL;DR, short rant that someone with UV experience knows what i'm talking about and everyone else will most likely just stare blankly...
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I don't personally do it this way.. but I can see how for smaller craft a quick 'auto' to get a set of islands to start with can be helpful. As long as you tweak and work it from there. I would never auto pack though.. for the reasons you already stated.
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It should be noted that correctly packing structures like that is an NP-hard problem. There is no algorithm in the world that is as good at mapping a 3D object onto a 2D plane as the human brain.
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I tend to map as I build, that way I can create a part, map it whilst it is aligned to the three axes, and then rotate it if needed without the risk of a stretched map being created.
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For me it really depends... some things will be mapped as I go, but usually not. Reason being is that if I want to tweak a look later once the complete model is done, I risk warping the UV, or having to redo it anyways.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HmXJD.jpg)
and because the lighting in the f3 lab sucks...
(http://i.imgur.com/mUH6C.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/LCVpv.jpg)
satisfied yet?
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Wow that has some weight to it. It looks great!
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Liking what you did with the aft section.
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green -> blue
in spinners IMO.
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Interestingly.. many of these changes came from feedback from VA.. who, while gave similar suggestions to certain people in this thread.. he did it with tact and respect to what Sab0o had already done. He didn't call for complete makeovers or have an attitude of 'change it or make it Chary MkII'. Far different from what was in here... we could all learn a thing or two about how he gives feedback.
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Except it's kind of difficult to learn from posts that don't exist on the thread. :P
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Somehow it looks like an old man with a cig in his mouth. The windows ought to be more...brighter blue though, I think. 'tis a bit too dull.
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How are you seeing that? :wtf: It's making my head hurt trying to force myself to see that image.
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I think it looks phenomenal.
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WIN
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Oh no you didn't!
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I've been doing nothing but texturing for too long now. I leave you with this:
(http://i.imgur.com/C55JS.jpg)
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Love it~
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I SEE GAS.
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(http://i.imgur.com/LCVpv.jpg)
Nice work integrating some good old rectangular panelling with the more Vasudan-ish scales :yes:
My only suggestion would be to increase the contrast between bright (behind the neck, platey things on the sides) and dark (under the spinner, engine section) armour sections some more. It's something that really stands out in the original, but is not very apparent in the new version.
Apart from that, great work :)
(http://i.imgur.com/C55JS.jpg)
Baked glowmaps. WIN.
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I want to serve aboard this beauty :yes: :yes: :yes:
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How are you seeing that? :wtf: It's making my head hurt trying to force myself to see that image.
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7156/puffa.jpg)
I think it's fantastic. Are we actually looking at ingame images? They almost don't look real :yes:
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Congratulations on mapping it in that efficient way. Amazing!
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Oh hell yes, moar glowiness. :D
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The model is great, but the texture's too comic-like for me on these screenshots...
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. . . comic like?
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The one with the face-thingy isn't the real one, you know :lol:
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The one with the face-thingy isn't the real one, you know :lol:
... Are you kidding me? That's the best one!
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The one with the face-thingy isn't the real one, you know :lol:
I know ;)
Compare this:
(http://i.imgur.com/LCVpv.jpg)
(http://depblog.weblogs.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/spaceship4_cg2.jpg)
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I'd wait until it's shown in low-ambience screens.
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You're another of those "I love it when I can't see" guys ?
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Interestingly that second picture looks more comic like to me.. (or at least more like some kind of concept art).
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You're another of those "I love it when I can't see" guys ?
Where in my post does it say "pitch-black darkness?"
Please, point it out to me, because I certainly don't see it anywhere.
Oh wait, because I didn't say that at all. Low ambience != zero ambience.
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My only suggestion would be to increase the contrast between bright (behind the neck, platey things on the sides) and dark (under the spinner, engine section) armour sections some more. It's something that really stands out in the original, but is not very apparent in the new version.
I second that one. But apart from that and orange lights, it looks great.
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I think the reason people are suggesting it looks 'cartoony' is because there's so many dark lines throughout the textures. Every separation is made with a thick solid dark line - it's almost like it's cel shaded. That was also my impression at first (hence my asking "are these really ingame shots) but I still think I'd need to see it 'for real' in-game on my end to be sure - maybe we all just use different lighting settings and such and it'll look totally different for everyone else depending on what mission or what lighting conditions we see it in.
Also yes, change those orange lights to a lovely soft blueish / purple mix and it'd look fantastic (think of the Main Energizer visible on the outside of the Enterprise in the Wrath of Khan, if you're weird enough to remember that!).
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Orange to blue? Um.. yeah... The original shows those as yellow. Personally I like the orange. But blue? Probably not.
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I'm for keeping the orange too. The orange/grey combo is one of the most aestethically pleasing colour combinations there is.
Besides, blue/grey is a BP colour combo, isn't that what you lot were vouching against?
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All the *****ing was because of the shapes of the hull plating.
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The orange lights should be changed to yellow. They were windows in original, now they look like some kind of phlebotinium gizmo.
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Man we pick nits pretty furiously here at HLP. :P
The model looks fantastic, very high-tech (which fits an experimental ship well). Regardless of anyone's feelings involving the texturing, it blows the retail model out of the water. Can't wait to see it in-game. I might even try harder to keep it from blowing up since it looks so awesome.
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The orange lights should be changed to yellow. They were windows in original, now they look like some kind of phlebotinium gizmo.
Likewise.
Obligatory "everything else is good", because people here have a habit of bursting into flames otherwise
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The orange lights should be changed to yellow. They were windows in original, now they look like some kind of phlebotinium gizmo.
Likewise.
Obligatory "everything else is good", because people here have a habit of bursting into flames otherwise
You might as well not say it all if you are going to disclaimer it everytime, as if you are trying to make some point you think we care about.
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Man we pick nits pretty furiously here at HLP.
This is FSU, the whole point is to improve rather than change the look y'know. :p
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You might as well not say it all if you are going to disclaimer it everytime, as if you are trying to make some point you think we care about.
That's funny, this post looks a lot like one that contributes nothing to the conversation and would only serve to provoke other members into ad hominem attacks.
I would like to remind everyone that such comments are frowned upon in this community. Let's focus on the qualities inherent in the work on display, and not on each other, shall we?
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The HTL version looke really, really cool. I applaude your hard work!
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So, this model had me saying, "That's not a real model. .... Wait, that's how it's going to look in game?.... :eek2: " Well done turning one of my least favorite ships to one of my favorite to look at.
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There should be an actual screen shot of the HTL Charybdis in the mission . . .Love the treason. . .
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http://youtu.be/v205Jgd8a24
Coming soon, once feedback on its finalization is complete and we decide on some minor table elements.
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1453/charby.jpg)
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Hawt.
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Very good looking. Not much left to suggest.
Why are your perseuses at LOD1 there?
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Why are your perseuses at LOD1 there?
I suspect the cause is more aggressive detail distances being tested. If that's the case, then distance where lod0 is used needs to be longer. Luckily there is a spreadsheet calculator to do just that. ;)
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Actually.. I think it was the spreadsheet calculator that screwed with a lot of the distances in a negative way...
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The point was to make detail distances more aggressive, better suited for modern models. They were left in testing to be tested, but were merged into assets as-is. The spreadsheet didn't screw anything, lack of testing/feedback did. To get more optimal results, all that is needed to edit the formulas a bit, which is trivial.
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The gas looks nice. But I see you didn't do anything about the hull texture. The same orange lights and solid, gray fuselage with irregular panels.
And it still looks like something out of BP.
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As long as it looks like a Charybdis, I have no beef.
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It looks amazing! But now that we get an in-game shot, the only thing I wish that could've been changed (because everything else looks awesome) is the rear. Still, it's far better than the retail model.
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I'm definitely going to make edits to the texture (make the orange glow more yellow, for instance), but I won't be able to redo it completely, so changes won't be too extended.
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love it love it love it three times in a row.
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I'm definitely going to make edits to the texture (make the orange glow more yellow, for instance), but I won't be able to redo it completely, so changes won't be too extended.
I tested by adjusting that layer to yellow for the glow map. Honestly? It didn't look anywhere near as good. But knock yourself out, it is after all only a glowmap.
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eyesex
Nothing to suggest, really.
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The gas looks nice. But I see you didn't do anything about the hull texture. The same orange lights and solid, gray fuselage with irregular panels.
And it still looks like something out of BP.
You forgot about the whole he's not changing it because he likes how it is?
Actually.
We really doing this again? No. Shut up.
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Man we pick nits pretty furiously here at HLP. :P
yeah really I may just be alone here but I've never understood the amount of angst people here have over twelve year old models
nerds
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Very good looking. Not much left to suggest.
Why are your perseuses at LOD1 there?
The zoom script I have doesn't(can't?) change LOD when you zoom in. (it's my sshot btw.)
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I tested by adjusting that layer to yellow for the glow map. Honestly? It didn't look anywhere near as good. But knock yourself out, it is after all only a glowmap.
That's hardly the only thing I'm going to change, and a simple color swap won't do here (I'm going to mess with saturation/brighness as well, among other things).
I only hope that the UVmap lends itself to changes like that.
As for you, Hades, your Fenris has exactly the same problems as this texture. Too much of a departure and changes to some distinctive features of a ship, making it look like an MkII instead of HTLization of the original design.
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It's Hades vs. Dragon time, somebody get the popcorn.
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No, there will not be popcorn.
I respect that people will have different opinions. I really do. But seriously. What is the point of holding to them so tightly that it utterly chokes being accepting of something that might be ever so slightly different in a way that is utterly irrelevant?
The maps do not break balance. I'm not expecting "critical acclaim" for the artist responsible, but seriously. This is getting close to practically crapping all over somebodies dedication and does nothing but stifle the possibility of someone later on wanting to try -anything- new, because heaven forbid it not be pixel(ated) perfect.
Once the model is released, naturally, people are free to do as they please. And just because it will be released here doesn't mean that good incisive feedback won't be accepted on making changes before the MediaVPs Release.
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As for you, Hades, your Fenris has exactly the same problems as this texture. Too much of a departure and changes to some distinctive features of a ship, making it look like an MkII instead of HTLization of the original design.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm56/HLPHades/ImageMacros/no.gif)
I've already said we're not getting into this again. Which means, we're not getting in this. It's not constructive in any way whatsoever.
And what Zacam said.
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Although I personally like the orange, when you make it yellow you should post screens. Actually, on that note, we have many projects that only need a texture. If you want to try your hand at some maybe we could squeeze one more badge next to your name.
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Unfortunately, I can't make textures from scratch, though I can modify the existing ones and/or generate additional textures. In fact, what got me into half of the projects I'm in is that I can upgrade existing textures comparatively quickly (I've applied for beta testing and/or table work in the other half). That's what I said I can't remake the AWACS texture from scratch, which I'd have done if I could (and actually done it instead of complaining about this map). As I've frequently mentioned, it's lines are too irregular and color is more or less uniform, while the retail version has large, visibly darker and brighter areas on it.
While I can mess with brightness, I can't do anything about the lines.
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Hey guys, I can texture. I'm just now getting the hang of UV mapping, but I can definitely texture. :nervous:
Any non-Shivan ships in need of maps that I might be able to try my hand at?
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Hey guys, I can texture. I'm just now getting the hang of UV mapping, but I can definitely texture. :nervous:
Any non-Shivan ships in need of maps that I might be able to try my hand at?
please! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57547.0)
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sigtau, catch us on IRC. We've got plenty of models that need texturing.
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This is OT:
You offered, and we'll bite. :p Inferno too has many models that need texturing or texturing improvements. Hit us up on our forum.
This is not OT:
Nice job on the AWAC ship; looking forward to seeing it in action (in Inferno).
R
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The zoom script I have doesn't(can't?) change LOD when you zoom in. (it's my sshot btw.)
If a zoom script was used to take the screenshot, then it's no wonder lod0 wasn't seen on the fighters. Which means detail distances in the svn are not too aggressive after all.
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Nope. You need to check the detail distances in-game... or at least in FRED. They are awful.. especially for things like cargo containers.