Just introduced this to my brother in law last year... he loves it. (He's young-ish). I'm going to show him the basics of modding next week. But more importantly, he has introduced this to our nephews (age 12).
Just introduced this to my brother in law last year... he loves it. (He's young-ish). I'm going to show him the basics of modding next week. But more importantly, he has introduced this to our nephews (age 12).
Kudos. :yes: I think it's vitally important for the long-term sustainability of this community that we strive to introduce FreeSpace to the next generation, kids especially. The original FreeSpace games were rated E, and in my honest opinion, intended for a target audience in a fairly young age range. My younger brother started playing the game when he was six (I'm not kidding), and still loves it. The world of FreeSpace has expanded exponentially since the retail release, and I've always been a little disappointed at how this expansion seems to be aimed towards a much older age group. The fact that we have very few "clean" campaigns out there really puts a limit on the number of people who will play and enjoy FreeSpace,
Just introduced this to my brother in law last year... he loves it. (He's young-ish). I'm going to show him the basics of modding next week. But more importantly, he has introduced this to our nephews (age 12).
Kudos. :yes: I think it's vitally important for the long-term sustainability of this community that we strive to introduce FreeSpace to the next generation, kids especially. The original FreeSpace games were rated E, and in my honest opinion, intended for a target audience in a fairly young age range. My younger brother started playing the game when he was six (I'm not kidding), and still loves it. The world of FreeSpace has expanded exponentially since the retail release, and I've always been a little disappointed at how this expansion seems to be aimed towards a much older age group. The fact that we have very few "clean" campaigns out there really puts a limit on the number of people who will play and enjoy FreeSpace,
The original campaigns had profanity and the deaths of thousands. I handled them fine as an eleven-year-old. If anything I think most fan-made campaigns (like Derelict) are considerably cleaner and more gentle than the retail stories.
I'm...actually not sure I about that. I'm betting it's a concern for a relatively small fraction of the population, no offense.
Well, the morality involved is highly debatable, but that really isn't the point. Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers were both historically based stories honoring real people. FreeSpace is totally fictional, so there's no one but the player to be disrespectful to. And I think it's more disrespectful to that player to have him/her barraged by volleys of needless swearing than to have them offended because none of the pilots match the gung-ho airman stereotype.
None taken. :) You may actually be right about that, and there's really no way we can know. Although I'd feel far more comfortable introducing FreeSpace to many of my friends if there were a censoring feature, I know that the social circles I frequent aren't good representations of the vast majority of people out there. Fact is, we'll never really know if a lack of game censorship is dampening the size of the community unless we...give it a try. :p
But if you're going for the Generation Kill, Hurt Locker, Black Hawk Down atmosphere you've got to look at the language the real-life analogues of your characters use.
QuoteBut if you're going for the Generation Kill, Hurt Locker, Black Hawk Down atmosphere you've got to look at the language the real-life analogues of your characters use.
See, but that would work.
I guess my test is whether or not I remember the swearing... because if I remember it, it's because it was overused/unnecessarily used/sounded more like a 15 year old's YouTube video.
But there's a difference and I think you would know what I mean if I could more clearly describe it.
And I'm positive you know the difference, if not on a subconscious level, with as much into writing as you are.
As long as I'm in their respective dev teams, all INF/NTV missions will be free from swearing.
Personally, I am fundamentally opposed to any form of censorship. Especially censorship by coding. Which is why I'll be fighting any attempt to add a "swear filter" to the engine.
To me, language is neither "good" nor "bad", (although there is "appropriate" and "nonappropriate"), and interfering with the creators vision of how his characters should sound is absolute Anathema. I don't quite see the point in trying to "protect" people (minors, for example) from something that is deemed offensive (or even damaging!) for some bull**** reason.
I don't quite see the point in trying to "protect" people (minors, for example) from something that is deemed offensive (or even damaging!) for some bull**** reason.I'd personally disagree with this, from my experience working with little kids. There are a few that lack the maturity to really use it properly/without offending people unintentionally. You save a lot of parents a lot of trouble by not exposing profanity to their children, I'd imagine. :P
But bear in mind that a lot of combat soldiers aren't even a decade past your 15 year old's YouTube video.
Personally, I am fundamentally opposed to any form of censorship. Especially censorship by coding. Which is why I'll be fighting any attempt to add a "swear filter" to the engine.
To me, language is neither "good" nor "bad", (although there is "appropriate" and "nonappropriate"), and interfering with the creators vision of how his characters should sound is absolute Anathema. I don't quite see the point in trying to "protect" people (minors, for example) from something that is deemed offensive (or even damaging!) for some bull**** reason.
Personally, I am fundamentally opposed to any form of censorship. Especially censorship by coding. Which is why I'll be fighting any attempt to add a "swear filter" to the engine.
To me, language is neither "good" nor "bad", (although there is "appropriate" and "nonappropriate"), and interfering with the creators vision of how his characters should sound is absolute Anathema. I don't quite see the point in trying to "protect" people (minors, for example) from something that is deemed offensive (or even damaging!) for some bull**** reason.
^-- Hmm... I don't feel deprived. I know exactly what you meant to say. And if I did feel deprived, I would uncheck the censoring option in my HLP profile settings. I'm for choice in the matter.
Mind you I tolerate swearing just fine. I went through a year of active duty USMC training (Boot camp, Combat Training, Occupational Specialty school from 8/25/2008 through 7/31/2009 - I'm now in the reserves). I just prefer not to listen to it if I have the choice, and I try to avoid using it (although I do slip up).
But while the age increases only slightly between the time when this hypothetical person is making YouTube videos and the time he/she is fighting in some war, their maturity has hopefully increased exponentially. If it hasn't, I certainly wouldn't trust them with my life on the battlefield.
The last thing I want is to hear another load of profanity while trying to relax with a good game of FreeSpace.
I think he plays Freespace to destress/blow **** up, much like most of the HLP IRC folk know that I play Modern Warfare 2 to relax, and don't give a flying **** about its storyline. And really, it's a game innit, the whole purpose is for you to have fun, whichever way that might be. Hell, I'd call a sortie where I end with 45 kills and a good mood a 'good game o'freespace'.The last thing I want is to hear another load of profanity while trying to relax with a good game of FreeSpace.
You apparently have a radically different conception of what "good" means from the majority of campaigns that have been recently released/are close to release. I don't think Dirge or WiH want you relaxing at all.
Maturity in any sense that influences battlefield performance has no correlation to swearing. An optimal soldier would probably swear themselves blue because the act of obscenity actually dampens neural responses to pain and stress in most individuals.Well the optimal soldier probably wouldn't feel stress in the first place. Your voicebox has far better use in repeating verbal orders the section commander gives. :P
Well I agree that I don't think a filter function would be terrible, but I also have to tell you that (at least in my own campaign writing) I don't think a seven year old should be playing it, not just because of obscenity but because it makes a frank attempt to deal with the horror of tens of thousands of people dying in front of you. It would feel weird to me to expose a child to that kind of terrifying event but to worry about profanity (which I do agree children should not be exposed to, though I read Jurassic Park and used my first '****' at age seven and then, after being told off, never uttered it again until about age 17.)
But yeah I can see your point. *shrug* I'll admit part of my objection just comes from the desire not to be treated as some kind of crude debased immoral...immoral person because I use profanity in my writing.
The last thing I want is to hear another load of profanity while trying to relax with a good game of FreeSpace.
You apparently have a radically different conception of what "good" means from the majority of campaigns that have been recently released/are close to release. I don't think Dirge or WiH want you relaxing at all.
I oppose a profanity filter, as you might have guessed.
I have to question how you feel about profanity in other media. Why should we treat FreeSpace differently?
A campaign's language should be contingent on its desired tone and its thematic interests, not a misguided desire to cater to younger age groups than the content is aimed at. As you say, you can remove the profanity but you can't remove the context.
An optional filter is a fine idea and I have no issue with it. But it would not create many more options for children, I think.
Well I understood the very literal stuff in the game when I played it as a young child. I'm a pilot in the GTVA, Bosch is bad, the Shivans are bad and we don't like them because they always ruin the party, and those Sathanas things are even worse.When I first played FS, I didnt understand much other than "shoot the targets highlighted in red with shiny lasers"
I don't think I was too damaged by being exposed Freespace as a primary schooler. :P
Firstly, apologies to Lucika for steering his thread off topic and thanks to whichever moderator split the thread.