I heard the Ancients where [sic] supposed to come back in the third iteration but nothing conclusive, of course.
What if the Shivans were defeated by said fragment (pretty big one I guess?) of Ancients? The Sathanes we see at the end of FS2 might be fleeing the Ancients because they failed to destroy them. That would be terrifying.
What if the Shivans were defeated by said fragment (pretty big one I guess?) of Ancients? The Sathanes we see at the end of FS2 might be fleeing the Ancients because they failed to destroy them. That would be terrifying.
Specifically, one ex-V staffer who I ran into while whoring Diaspora around the Internet. He was the guy who modeled most of the FS2 Shivans and Vasudans, as well as the mainhall.
He had some interesting things to say:QuoteI heard the Ancients where [sic] supposed to come back in the third iteration but nothing conclusive, of course.
And that's all I got from him, but hey, given what we've got out of the 'symptoms of a bigger problem' hint, it's a substantial revelation by our standards!
I tried to get an interview with Jason Scott but, alas, no luck. (Also my emails to Ronnie Cox have gone unanswered.)
Yes, I am quite sure. That is what we call 'a coincidence.'
Battuta complains about Inferno: CHECK
All in favor of making whatever campaigns you want to make anyway, regardless of possible FS3 reveals please say 'aye.'
Aye.
All in favor of making whatever campaigns you want to make anyway, regardless of possible FS3 reveals please say 'aye.'
Aye.
ngtm-1r thinks it's predictable: CHECK
This comment is interesting but tells us hardly anything. Note that the Ancients don't necessarily have to be enemies.
There are quite a few campaigns now with Ancients in some form or another, so the community has probably already come close to what Volition had intended somewhere along the way.
This comment is interesting but tells us hardly anything. Note that the Ancients don't necessarily have to be enemies.Yeah, this. Like I said, I can't see the Ancients remaining as any sort of galactic power, as the Lucifer fleet would have presumably finished them off long ago if they had maintained any real sort of space presence. Maybe the GTVA wound up stumbling across a hidden colony of Ancients in some previously-unexplored border system.
it's probably more like this was an offhand remark about some half remembered offhand remark made during an unofficial brainstorming session nearing the end of the fs2 development 11 years ago.
lets not go too crazy about this please.
it's probably more like this was an offhand remark about some half remembered offhand remark made during an unofficial brainstorming session nearing the end of the fs2 development 11 years ago.
lets not go too crazy about this please.
Yes, I know that, but at this point that stuff is gold!
Like the war between Sol and the GTVA? Probably.
The GTVA is by it's own law the only legitimate authority in Human and Vasudan controlled space.You can always convince Sol and the Vasudans to sign a new treaty if it's worth it (yes, the BETAC is called a convention. Same thing though, different name). Treaties are revoked or modified from time to time, and constitutions are changed, again, from time to time.
True, but that would still require one or more likely both current governments to give up power.
Before the node is reopened, both governments have full controll. If they unite, they can't both have full controll, so someone has to relinquish a bit of controll. Unless the GTVA has no say in Sol and the ex-GTA no say beyond Sol, but then it wouldn't be a unification in the first place.True, but that would still require one or more likely both current governments to give up power.
Why?
Before the node is reopened, both governments have full controll. If they unite, they can't both have full controll, so someone has to relinquish a bit of controll. Unless the GTVA has no say in Sol and the ex-GTA no say beyond Sol, but then it wouldn't be a unification in the first place.
I don't think that the pivotal plot point of the Shivans being mysterious uber enemies would ever be botched.They'd be cutting themselves in their own fingers if they made them into anything but the mysterious uber enemy.
So, you agree? :pI don't think that the pivotal plot point of the Shivans being mysterious uber enemies would ever be botched.They'd be cutting themselves in their own fingers if they made them into anything but the mysterious uber enemy.
That I do sir.So, you agree? :pI don't think that the pivotal plot point of the Shivans being mysterious uber enemies would ever be botched.They'd be cutting themselves in their own fingers if they made them into anything but the mysterious uber enemy.
With as many Shivan theories as people here, only a few would be satisfied if :v: gave a definite answer to each question about the Shivans.
Before the node is reopened, both governments have full controll. If they unite, they can't both have full controll, so someone has to relinquish a bit of controll. Unless the GTVA has no say in Sol and the ex-GTA no say beyond Sol, but then it wouldn't be a unification in the first place.
I just don't see Sol going to war against the GTVA - it would have no hope of victory.
I just don't see Sol going to war against the GTVA - it would have no hope of victory.
With possibly 15 billion people and the best developed infrastructure in the former GTA (and with Vasuda blown up possibly better developed than multiple GTVA systems combined), I'll bet Sol would really want to become the most powerful system in known space.
I'll also bet they have the firepower to back up their ambitions.
On the other hand, however, there might be a few civilized asteroids in Sol, and the rest fell apart...
I just don't see Sol going to war against the GTVA - it would have no hope of victory.
With possibly 15 billion people and the best developed infrastructure in the former GTA (and with Vasuda blown up possibly better developed than multiple GTVA systems combined), I'll bet Sol would really want to become the most powerful system in known space.
I'll also bet they have the firepower to back up their ambitions.
On the other hand, however, there might be a few civilized asteroids in Sol, and the rest fell apart...
At the end of the day Sol has only access to the resources of 1 system, the GTVA has many
Completely irrelevant. One system has the resources to run the entire GTVA. Star systems are huge. What's important is how thoroughly you can exploit the system - how well industrialized is it?
Yes. Capella was a densely populated system with, I believe, 300 million. Take it as a near to upper bound, multiply across the worlds in the GTVA.Polaris is supposed to have a shipyard so that probably has a large population in the region of Capella (ok before NTF rebellion)
Yes. Capella was a densely populated system with, I believe, 300 million. Take it as a near to upper bound, multiply across the worlds in the GTVA.
We know it's densely populated which I think it's safe to assume means it's at least on the upper quartile of the population distribution.
Yea no, just, no.
FS and B5 are nothing alike and B5 is just bad.
Please keep them as far from eachother as possible.
B5 bad??? B5 is awesome.
B5 is awesome.
B5 is awesome.
B5 is awesome.
B5 is awesome.
B5 is awesome.There. Should be enough to counter the derailing effect.
I don't think racism against the Vasudans alone could have been enogh for the NTF rebellion.
Of course there were those, but the NTF also contained those that were sucked up in the idea of Neo-Terra. There must have been others who joined "not out of hate for Vasudans, but out of love for Humanity" as Bosch put it in his diary.
Also the Vasudans came out of the great war with a stronger economy. And if you are the poor one it's easy to despise and hate the richer ones. Rich folk always make a good scapegoat for wannabe dictators when there are enough poor folk around.
In Sol the Vasudans were simply too few to be blamed for anything (maybe a few dozens among billions of Humans) and since they were in the cradle of mankind, there was no need for something like Neo-Terra.
Yeah, I'd assume that about the only Vasudans in Sol at the time of the node collapse would have been scientists/engineers, diplomats, and some military brass. And Epsilon wing too, of course. :p
*SNIP* .. cause I don't like long quotes
And I really don't see people betraying the GTVA en masse. Why would they? If it does something horrible, then maybe. But again - why?
And I really don't see people betraying the GTVA en masse.But they already did. That was the NTF rebellion.
If it was just a case of the GTVA was running the economy badly I would have to agree. but in this case there is also a charismatic, dare I say messiah like figure, who holds/held a respectable position (lets face it a Fleet admiral is pretty high in the scheme of things) with a lot of support, calling on Terrans to join him in his vision of a new terran home with the vibrancy and culture of Earth, presumably with a vibrant economy, jobs for all, free public health care and the rest of it. In exchange all he is asking people to do is fight against a treaty with an alien species with a superior economy to the terrans who aren't sharing the wealth. To top it all off his credibility is boosted by the GTVA's seeming inability to wipe out his little insurrectionist in a few weeks.
Admiral Aken BoschIf it was just a case of the GTVA was running the economy badly I would have to agree. but in this case there is also a charismatic, dare I say messiah like figure, who holds/held a respectable position (lets face it a Fleet admiral is pretty high in the scheme of things) with a lot of support, calling on Terrans to join him in his vision of a new terran home with the vibrancy and culture of Earth, presumably with a vibrant economy, jobs for all, free public health care and the rest of it. In exchange all he is asking people to do is fight against a treaty with an alien species with a superior economy to the terrans who aren't sharing the wealth. To top it all off his credibility is boosted by the GTVA's seeming inability to wipe out his little insurrectionist in a few weeks.
Messiah-like figure? Who?
And economy? True, the humans had a harder time recovering from the Great War than vasudans, but by the time of the Sol Gate opening that would have been ancient history. It practicly is by the time FS2 starts - the reconstruction period is over.
And economicly powerful Earth? Possibly, but I doubt it will have the power it had before the node collapse. Remember, Earth trived on export and many companies had their HQ there. With the node collapse, massive markets are suddenly gone. A large economic crisis is more than likely. Just think what would happen to the US if it were suddenly completely cut off from the rest of the world..
http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Neo-Terran_Front
Bosch's vision of Neo-Terra informs the ideology of his movement. With contact to Earth severed since the end of the Great War, Bosch imagined a new home world for the Terran race, a utopia that would restore the grandeur of the lost world. As the people of Earth once relied on Polaris to help them navigate the seas, the North Star would become the spiritual and political compass for Terrans of the new era. Bosch's message had a profound impact on the so-called "Lost Generation," born during the post-war Reconstruction. Bosch's message resonated with many people, largely because his pro-Terran ideology,
Most of the adult generation by the time of FS2 grew up and worked during reconstruction period and those sorts of memories last a lifetime ask any working class British citizen over 25 about Margaret Thatcher and you will have a good clue what I am on about. Throw into that the resentment the differences between the Vasudan and Terran economies which for 1 would highlight how badly the Terrans were handling things and secondly the fact that significant numbers of people would have thought the vasudans could have done more to help.
Now throw in a person who is literally promising heaven to the terran people, we are talking a world to rival Earth in grandeur, to do this would require a thriving economy which means jobs and wealth, to working class people who grew up in the reconstruction era which is basically a recession, this is the stuff heaven is made of, (these are also the people who build and crew your warships remember).
Many people want to go to Sol, but the GTVA won't allow it. Bam Rebellion.
Oh, that sounds like fun. I wonder who did that :pMany people want to go to Sol, but the GTVA won't allow it. Bam Rebellion.
Somebody did a campaign about the GTVA being scared of that! :nervous:
I didn't mean it the way WiH did it. There the GTVA fights against Sol, not against an internal rebellion (or at least not yet in part 1).Many people want to go to Sol, but the GTVA won't allow it. Bam Rebellion.
Somebody did a campaign about the GTVA being scared of that! :nervous:
And regarding mass migration..to Earth? Unlikely. Since it's the most densly populated planet in the GTVA, most people would logicly consider it a good place to visit and live, but would hardly throw rebellions over not being able to go there.
and Vasuda was nuked, so vasudan dominance is not likely.
And regarding mass migration..to Earth? Unlikely. Since it's the most densly populated planet in the GTVA, most people would logicly consider it a good place to visit and live, but would hardly throw rebellions over not being able to go there.
They already threw a rebellion once over the chance to build a place even remotely like Earth. Having the real thing waiting? Got to be worse.
And regarding mass migration..to Earth? Unlikely. Since it's the most densly populated planet in the GTVA, most people would logicly consider it a good place to visit and live, but would hardly throw rebellions over not being able to go there.
They already threw a rebellion once over the chance to build a place even remotely like Earth. Having the real thing waiting? Got to be worse.
And all the people who wanted a "new Earth" badly enough to rebel HAVE rebelled and were defeated.
Besides, population numbers is the issue here, not GTVA being assholes. There's a limit to how many people can live on Earth comfortably. As it is now, living space will be even more expensive in the future.
Most people will simply not have the means to move to Earth, or will be smart enough to know it's not the smartest idea. After all, there are lots of people who would like to move into the "big city", but can't or won't. I've yet to see a rebellion over it.
Here in the US one of the biggest political problems is the violence associated with unwanted immigration. Same goes for Europe.
Here in the US one of the biggest political problems is the violence associated with unwanted immigration. Same goes for Europe.
You're comparing immigration across land borders under own power to immigration via spaceships which even have a controllable chokepoint.
The GTVA and Sol ain't the Imperium of Man with giant ships where you could lose whole armies in the holds, so how on earth do you think effective immigration control isn't going to be possible?
I'm not. I'm arguing that when that desire for immigration exists but government control renders it impossible, civil unrest will result.
EDIT: come to think of it, even if immigration is totally forbidden, given the existence of any privately owned shipping I'd expect a lot of illegal transit anyway. An Argo is huge enough to lose an army in and people are corruptible. Even if all the shipping is state-controlled I'd still expect some, though the probabilities are reduced.
No, those in a specific area of space who rallied behind a specific leader in a specific movement were.
Here in the US one of the biggest political problems is the violence associated with unwanted immigration. Same goes for Europe.
Happens.
Ontopic: what would happen if Ancient immigrants would like to go to Sol? ;)
As it so happens, we only really get a pilot's eye view of the whole thing, so we really don't even know how the political situation unfolded after FS1, except that Human splinter groups are apparently unhappy with the situation/are racist bastards.
While the GTVA is clearly a governing body, do we have any evidence that the GTA was anything more than a military alliance like NATO? Sovereign states pooling their military forces?
citation?
The Galactic Terran Alliance was formed many years before FreeSpace begins. It’s largely a defense and research organization, and has few domestic influences, focusing it’s attention on matters in outer space, and the exploration thereof.
And, finally, let's not forget the second Knossos Portal that SOC finds. It clearly shows that the Ancients were located deeper within Shivan territory.No, it just shows that the jumpnodes there were too unstable for the ancients to traverse without a portal. But that isn't showing wether it was a core system or a system on the outer bounderies of their terretory.
Definitely true. GTA was described as being very hands-off in terms of political and cultural power. One of the inspirations for what happened to the GTVA in BP.
It turns out that a small surviving group of ancients hid away in a distant part of the galaxy, and they managed to develop in secrecy away from the shivans and us. While we have been busy fighting the shivans, they have been busy spreading, with a new way of travel. They call it
The Stargate.
;7