Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: NGTM-1R on November 14, 2010, 04:10:44 pm
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Summarizing a recent conversation from EVE about the feasibility of zombie outbreaks:
NGTM1R > "It's zombies, you can only shoot them in the head!" "**** that, it's zombies, they stand there while you drop nine shades of artillery hell on them and reduce them to wet rags, then run the rest down with armored vehicles."
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Summarizing a recent conversation from EVE about the feasibility of zombie outbreaks:
NGTM1R > "It's zombies, you can only shoot them in the head!" "**** that, it's zombies, they stand there while you drop nine shades of artillery hell on them and reduce them to wet rags, then run the rest down with armored vehicles."
Hah, read World War Z
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Hah, read World War Z
The realistic possibility of a zombie apocalypse died in the trenches of World War 1. This death was confirmed on the battlefields of World War 2, the Vietnam War, and Gulf One.
Fire kills. It kills wholesale. Cluster munitions, artillery, the machinegun. Nothing survives raw, unbridled firepower in huge quantities. No amount of mystical hoodoo will save you from the raw physics of the Steel Rain or a sixty-ton vehicle impacting you at forty miles an hour.
World War Z is bull**** and was written by an author who has no conception of what human weaponry is capable of.
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if i was fighting zombies, i think i would want a shotgun with an extended ammo tube with a capacity of no fewer than 10 rounds, a 9mm with extended clip (or two extended clips taped together), and a few grenades and molotov cocktails. i would love a minigun, or a flame thrower, or even an artillery piece or fifty, but i think mobility is key to surviving a zombie apocalypse.
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Hah, read World War Z
The realistic possibility of a zombie apocalypse died in the trenches of World War 1. This death was confirmed on the battlefields of World War 2, the Vietnam War, and Gulf One.
Fire kills. It kills wholesale. Cluster munitions, artillery, the machinegun. Nothing survives raw, unbridled firepower in huge quantities. No amount of mystical hoodoo will save you from the raw physics of the Steel Rain or a sixty-ton vehicle impacting you at forty miles an hour.
World War Z is bull**** and was written by an author who has no conception of what human weaponry is capable of.
Actually...I buy World War Z. The realistic possibility of a global pandemic was pretty much born in the trenches of World War I. Whether or not you can kill the resulting zombies, I think the pathogen would ultimately drive civilization back to a few strongpoints.
And while humanity's various abilities might be tactically impressive I'm not convinced of any kind of strategic endurance against an opponent that ends up numbering in the billions. That problem too would probably end up being tackled the way World War Z did it.
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Is this the book where the zombies only die with headshots? I was mildly interested (have a friend who's up to his arms in zombie survival books and gear), but how do they justify only headshots killing the bastards? Surely if you force them to bleed out, they physically can't keep going?
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Nah, traditionally in zombie lore zombies only die with headshots but World War Z is a bit more nuanced. You should read it, it's full of really brilliant and incisive analysis even setting the Yonkers chapter aside.
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Hah, read World War Z
The realistic possibility of a zombie apocalypse died in the trenches of World War 1. This death was confirmed on the battlefields of World War 2, the Vietnam War, and Gulf One.
Fire kills. It kills wholesale. Cluster munitions, artillery, the machinegun. Nothing survives raw, unbridled firepower in huge quantities. No amount of mystical hoodoo will save you from the raw physics of the Steel Rain or a sixty-ton vehicle impacting you at forty miles an hour.
World War Z is bull**** and was written by an author who has no conception of what human weaponry is capable of.
Sir, you win. :pimp:
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That problem too would probably end up being tackled the way World War Z did it.
Nuclear option? Oh wait... :P
Simple automatic weapons destroy the premise of World War Z. You cut them to pieces with massed automatic fire. You're not going to run out of .30cal.
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That problem too would probably end up being tackled the way World War Z did it.
Nuclear option? Oh wait... :P
That's not much good. Nukes aren't going to do anything. Zombies aren't an army and would be so widely dispersed you'd need to nuke a lot of acreage for any kind of results.
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Nah, traditionally in zombie lore zombies only die with headshots but World War Z is a bit more nuanced. You should read it, it's full of really brilliant and incisive analysis even setting the Yonkers chapter aside.
Ah right. Bearstrike was telling me about it earlier. May have to pick up soonish.
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That's not much good. Nukes aren't going to do anything. Zombies aren't an army and would be so widely dispersed you'd need to nuke a lot of acreage for any kind of results.
They also don't move much. Infested population centers.
Also see edit. :P
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They'll disperse in a Brownian fashion, actually. And I think you would run out of 30 cal, but the problems aren't tactical (killing them at any given point), they're what you do in the long run and what the consequences of having your population halfimated (or worse) are. Technological civilization as we understand it would collapse a few levels.
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Nah, traditionally in zombie lore zombies only die with headshots but World War Z is a bit more nuanced. You should read it, it's full of really brilliant and incisive analysis even setting the Yonkers chapter aside.
I think the main take away from Yonkers was that the military wasn't logistically prepared for the threat. They were fighting an opponent that literally numbered more then they had ammunition and simply wasn't going to be rout like normal. The bits about Steel Rain not working was silly. If they took that part out of the plot and focused on the overall premise of being logistically unprepared for an opponent that knows no fear it would have been much more believable.
Up until a couple platoons on M1A2s with mineplows rolled up the highway throttles open, line abreast and turned the zombie hordes into tread grease. Or the fact that most zombies would rot into combat ineffectiveness PDQ. That said I always enjoyed World War Z from a societal perspective then a military one.
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Yeah, like all zombie lore its value is as a way to explore human nature and society.
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Haven't read world war Z, but I read the Zombie Survival Guide by the same author.
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That problem too would probably end up being tackled the way World War Z did it.
Nuclear option? Oh wait... :P
That's not much good. Nukes aren't going to do anything. Zombies aren't an army and would be so widely dispersed you'd need to nuke a lot of acreage for any kind of results.
big firepower would make a difference only early on, but once urban zombies disperse, you would need an entirely different strategy. from the military standpoint its very difficult to draw the line from friend and foe. you could blow up your own cities early on but then you would also blow up any live ones still holed up there. so you might want to let them disperse. there is a gun in the world for every 7 people, and enough ammo to kill everyone on the planet many times over. in the usa with every redneck, every cop, every gangbanger and anyone else with a gun armed to the teeth and more gun stores than macdonalds, i very much doubt the zombies would be your biggest problem. its a situation where you could shoot anyone you run into on a whim, shoot em, and just say they were a zombie and get away with it. thats how the black guy died in night of the living dead. with society falling apart people may be shooting anything that moves whether theyre zombies or not. there will be looting and hoarding of supplies and ammo. zombies only want your brains and other assorted meats, but other people want your guns your food your water your fuel and will shoot you in the head for it.
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Since gangbangers seem to be much more adept at putting rounds into some 12 year old girl asleep in the house behind the stupid dirtbag they are trying to shoot, I would place my bets on the shambling undead hordes before I'd expect some chump who holds his weapon horizontally to make an effective headshot.
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Since gangbangers seem to be much more adept at putting rounds into some 12 year old girl asleep in the house behind the stupid dirtbag they are trying to shoot, I would place my bets on the shambling undead hordes before I'd expect some chump who holds his weapon horizontally to make an effective headshot.
But he'll look damn cool doing it.
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You really should read the Zombie Survival Guide, if only for the lulz. And the fact that the gangbangers vs. zombies fight was overkill. As in, the gangbangers wiped the floor with their decomposing carcasses.
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That problem too would probably end up being tackled the way World War Z did it.
Nuclear option? Oh wait... :P
That's not much good. Nukes aren't going to do anything. Zombies aren't an army and would be so widely dispersed you'd need to nuke a lot of acreage for any kind of results.
big firepower would make a difference only early on, but once urban zombies disperse, you would need an entirely different strategy. from the military standpoint its very difficult to draw the line from friend and foe. you could blow up your own cities early on but then you would also blow up any live ones still holed up there. so you might want to let them disperse. there is a gun in the world for every 7 people, and enough ammo to kill everyone on the planet many times over. in the usa with every redneck, every cop, every gangbanger and anyone else with a gun armed to the teeth and more gun stores than macdonalds, i very much doubt the zombies would be your biggest problem. its a situation where you could shoot anyone you run into on a whim, shoot em, and just say they were a zombie and get away with it. thats how the black guy died in night of the living dead. with society falling apart people may be shooting anything that moves whether theyre zombies or not. there will be looting and hoarding of supplies and ammo. zombies only want your brains and other assorted meats, but other people want your guns your food your water your fuel and will shoot you in the head for it.
Actually yeah, see, this is a great point. Zombie apocalypses are a literary tool to unleash the evil of man. That's what they're all about; their fundamental nature is an excuse for us to kill our fellow humans en masse without remorse. And that's why in most good zombie stories it's the other people who are the real danger.
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im half tempted to split out the zombie discussion into its own thread, because it would be very intresting to be able to continue. maybe il do it later, i gotta go to the store (and radio shack) right now before the close, i need parts/caffine.
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Ultimately what it comes down to is a number of variables:
What percentage of the population becomes zombies.
How rapidly and synchronously the transformation occurs.
What level of tactics the zombies can use (can the zombies take cover? How is their mobility and aim?)
This also transfers to, what weapons can zombies use?
What it takes to kill a zombie.
What weapons are available to use (zombies in Canada will have to stick to chainsaws more than their USA brethren, Middle-Eastern zombies will have access to AKs and RPGs)
If the zombies are subject to any type of strategy (Stephen King's "Cell")
Type of landscape (urban zombies would be a lot more terrifying than country zombies IMO)
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In a situation where 50% of the population instantly becomes dextrous, cover seeking, center-of-mass aiming, and immune-to-pain-but-not-damage in an average US population center (Denver being of course, my favorite example) I could easily see them taking over, with some significant resistance.
Even the military bases here might not be any significant advantage - what's to stop service members from being infected?
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Maggots happen.
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What about the mindless human being variety?
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See, Armageddon portrays a similar situation to a zombie invasion. Large population dieoff followed by a directed invasion.
Human society is fairly resistant to losses at about 20%, and it's hard to construct a scenario where you get more given the state of health education.
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Are we talking the asteroid movie? Because I'm...not so into that as a great comparison.
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Are we talking the asteroid movie? Because I'm...not so into that as a great comparison.
Stuart's novel about an invasion. From Hell. :P
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Are we talking the asteroid movie? Because I'm...not so into that as a great comparison.
Stuart's novel about an invasion. From Hell. :P
Well that one at least only bored me for a few minutes.
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One thing I don't get - In all the outbreak scenarios, how come the U.S army is so proficient at leaving heavy hardware like tanks and APCs behind? One of those things could theretically beat an entire horde. Ammo gone, no problem: Run em down.
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Well that one at least only bored me for a few minutes.
Considering his obvious respect for your class of sci-fi, I would have assumed even less.
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Well that one at least only bored me for a few minutes.
Considering his obvious respect for your class of sci-fi, I would have assumed even less.
I couldn't get past the intro. It might actually turn out to be awesome but my Baen gag reflex kicked in too rapidly to tell.
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One thing I never understood about "Dawn of the Dead", how exactly could a heavily fortified military fort be overrun by zombies but a shopping mall with glass doors somehow be able to hold out?
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One thing I don't get - In all the outbreak scenarios, how come the U.S army is so proficient at leaving heavy hardware like tanks and APCs behind? One of those things could theretically beat an entire horde. Ammo gone, no problem: Run em down.
indeed, however, if the oil (transport) infrastructure was eliminated by the damage caused in initial outbreak, or looted by panicking civvies then the fuel is a very valuable resource, especially for the not-terribly-fuel-efficient US army vehicles such as the M1A1. BUT things like those new humvee successors would be pretty good with an upside-down plow on them (to ensure they drive over the zombies, squashing them, because tossing them aside could leave many zombies still okay, if they have bull**** damage resistance, because otherwise they'd be consumed by wildlife and myriad of other things.) for the fuel cost.
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One thing I never understood about "Dawn of the Dead", how exactly could a heavily fortified military fort be overrun by zombies but a shopping mall with glass doors somehow be able to hold out?
It's in the sound. A mall can be shut down, you know, with glass and shutters in place, the zombies can't hear or see anyone in there. A military fort, however, would be perceivably teeming. Noise-wise, heavy equipment operating; tanks, helicopters, trucks, and so on. Visibly, convoys and soldiers arriving and departing, manned fortifications at the perimeter and so on. Alerting the dead-heads is pretty much inevitable, and when the shooting starts, they seal their fate by attracting more of them.
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i blame fiat
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i blame fiat
(http://politicolnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ron_paul_photo_4.jpg)
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One thing I never understood about "Dawn of the Dead", how exactly could a heavily fortified military fort be overrun by zombies but a shopping mall with glass doors somehow be able to hold out?
It's in the sound. A mall can be shut down, you know, with glass and shutters in place, the zombies can't hear or see anyone in there. A military fort, however, would be perceivably teeming. Noise-wise, heavy equipment operating; tanks, helicopters, trucks, and so on. Visibly, convoys and soldiers arriving and departing, manned fortifications at the perimeter and so on. Alerting the dead-heads is pretty much inevitable, and when the shooting starts, they seal their fate by attracting more of them.
All they had to do was hop into a tank and start rolling over everything. Not to mention mortors, grenades, artillery, machine guns, etc that could easily mow down any number of zombie hordes.
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Problem is: Tanks will fail, too. Engine failure, overheating, running out of juice, zombies clawing out vital optics, etc. Combined with the fact that you will attract even more of them whichever way you use the tank, you'll be doomed eventually. On top of that: By attacking the zombies, you instantly put yourself on the defensive against a force you have no grasp of... there could be millions of them, they could be capable of alerting other zombies, and for all you know, they could bring a tank of their own as well! :lol:
Brains before brawn when it comes to the undead, basically.
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machine guns vs zombies == waste of ammo. zombies are slow enough that you can take the time and actually aim. heavy machine guns are often used for suppressing fire. the idea is that they would keep the enemy's head down long enough so that they could advance. zombies aint exactly going to duck like a soldier would. you could probably set up a kill zone at a prepared position, and youd probably tear those zombies to shreds, but rest assured those shreds would still try to eat you.
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if i was fighting zombies, i think i would want a shotgun with an extended ammo tube with a capacity of no fewer than 10 rounds, a 9mm with extended clip (or two extended clips taped together), and a few grenades and molotov cocktails. i would love a minigun, or a flame thrower, or even an artillery piece or fifty, but i think mobility is key to surviving a zombie apocalypse.
I'd prefer a Jackhammer for longer ranges and a Lightsaber and Force-push for close ranges. :P
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I'd ride an elephant.
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if i was fighting zombies, i think i would want a shotgun with an extended ammo tube with a capacity of no fewer than 10 rounds, a 9mm with extended clip (or two extended clips taped together), and a few grenades and molotov cocktails. i would love a minigun, or a flame thrower, or even an artillery piece or fifty, but i think mobility is key to surviving a zombie apocalypse.
I'd prefer a Jackhammer for longer ranges and a Lightsaber and Force-push for close ranges. :P
I'd prefer to be the Neveraine, ungodly strength/int and zombie immunity :P
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Problem is: Tanks will fail, too. Engine failure, overheating, running out of juice, zombies clawing out vital optics, etc. Combined with the fact that you will attract even more of them whichever way you use the tank, you'll be doomed eventually. On top of that: By attacking the zombies, you instantly put yourself on the defensive against a force you have no grasp of... there could be millions of them, they could be capable of alerting other zombies, and for all you know, they could bring a tank of their own as well! :lol:
Brains before brawn when it comes to the undead, basically.
A zombie tank? Ha, now that would be something to see. Actually if you attract even more of them with a tank that means you'll wipe them out even faster. A good strategy is to use the tank to get a whole bunch of them in one place, then bomb that group with napalm.
machine guns vs zombies == waste of ammo. zombies are slow enough that you can take the time and actually aim. heavy machine guns are often used for suppressing fire. the idea is that they would keep the enemy's head down long enough so that they could advance. zombies aint exactly going to duck like a soldier would. you could probably set up a kill zone at a prepared position, and youd probably tear those zombies to shreds, but rest assured those shreds would still try to eat you.
As long as they stay in one place then it doesn't matter. If you have to put down a bunch of them in a pinch, the machine gun is a good way to disable them, then you have napalm or flamethrowers come in for the mopup.
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Problem is: Tanks will fail, too. Engine failure, overheating, running out of juice, zombies clawing out vital optics, etc. Combined with the fact that you will attract even more of them whichever way you use the tank, you'll be doomed eventually. On top of that: By attacking the zombies, you instantly put yourself on the defensive against a force you have no grasp of... there could be millions of them, they could be capable of alerting other zombies, and for all you know, they could bring a tank of their own as well! :lol:
Brains before brawn when it comes to the undead, basically.
A zombie tank? Ha, now that would be something to see. Actually if you attract even more of them with a tank that means you'll wipe them out even faster. A good strategy is to use the tank to get a whole bunch of them in one place, then bomb that group with napalm.
He's referring to the one type of zombie that is as big as a van, typically walks like a gorilla, and is musclebound to the absolute extreme.
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Oh, right, that kind of zombie that exists only where the pseudo-science used to justify zombies is even more convoluted and ****ty than normal.
Fact: Zombies cannot get in the tank if you don't want them to. If there is no one in it, they will leave it alone. If there is, they will not be able to open it. At all.
Fact: Unless the zombie is someone who worked on the specific kind of tank you're using, at which point all intelligence is already gone, they won't know what the vital optics on a tank are (and since there are tiny slits in the front of most tanks used to fire and see out of, it doesn't matter)
Fact: An Abrahms tank can travel 265 miles on a single tank of gas. If you can't get somewhere to help get any errant zombies off, you're doing it wrong.
Fun Fact: An Abrahms tank can move at up to 70 mph (that I've seen) on a good highway. Zombies will fall off. Mythbusters has shown us this with much lower speeds and without a rotating turret.
The military base that gets overrun is overrun by bull**** and fiat.
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I think a few folks under appreciate how swift and nimble an modern MBT truly is. Its scary **** to see one of those things tearing up over hill and dale and while that 60 plus ton beast bounces all over the place its stabilized 120mm muzzle just stays perfectly sighted on you.
Musics a bit OTT but you can get the point. Any organic matter that thing hits is going to be paste. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmiFLf1OcfU&feature=related)
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Oh, right, that kind of zombie that exists only where the pseudo-science used to justify zombies is even more convoluted and ****ty than normal.
Fact: Zombies cannot get in the tank if you don't want them to. If there is no one in it, they will leave it alone. If there is, they will not be able to open it. At all.
Fact: Unless the zombie is someone who worked on the specific kind of tank you're using, at which point all intelligence is already gone, they won't know what the vital optics on a tank are (and since there are tiny slits in the front of most tanks used to fire and see out of, it doesn't matter)
Fact: An Abrahms tank can travel 265 miles on a single tank of gas. If you can't get somewhere to help get any errant zombies off, you're doing it wrong.
Fun Fact: An Abrahms tank can move at up to 70 mph (that I've seen) on a good highway. Zombies will fall off. Mythbusters has shown us this with much lower speeds and without a rotating turret.
The military base that gets overrun is overrun by bull**** and fiat.
I like how we're dismissing tanks as unscientific, while giving zombies in general a free pass! :p
Anyway, whether they're military or civilians, large groups of survivors in one place is a bad thing for everyone involved. Also, I'm aware that zombies wouldn't be able to get in the tank, and I'll concede the point about the optics, too. I still think they'll find a way, though. I'll put up another hypothetical - You're gonna find tanks in cities, right? I'm pretty sure even for a tank, traversing all those cars and possible barricades left behind will fail at some point, whether the tank gets stuck or simply cannot pass.
I'm sticking to my guns with the outpost scenario: Wouldn't work. Basta.
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Oh, right, that kind of zombie that exists only where the pseudo-science used to justify zombies is even more convoluted and ****ty than normal.
Fact: Zombies cannot get in the tank if you don't want them to. If there is no one in it, they will leave it alone. If there is, they will not be able to open it. At all.
Fact: Unless the zombie is someone who worked on the specific kind of tank you're using, at which point all intelligence is already gone, they won't know what the vital optics on a tank are (and since there are tiny slits in the front of most tanks used to fire and see out of, it doesn't matter)
Fact: An Abrahms tank can travel 265 miles on a single tank of gas. If you can't get somewhere to help get any errant zombies off, you're doing it wrong.
Fun Fact: An Abrahms tank can move at up to 70 mph (that I've seen) on a good highway. Zombies will fall off. Mythbusters has shown us this with much lower speeds and without a rotating turret.
The military base that gets overrun is overrun by bull**** and fiat.
I like how we're dismissing tanks as unscientific, while giving zombies in general a free pass! :p
Anyway, whether they're military or civilians, large groups of survivors in one place is a bad thing for everyone involved. Also, I'm aware that zombies wouldn't be able to get in the tank, and I'll concede the point about the optics, too. I still think they'll find a way, though. I'll put up another hypothetical - You're gonna find tanks in cities, right? I'm pretty sure even for a tank, traversing all those cars and possible barricades left behind will fail at some point, whether the tank gets stuck or simply cannot pass.
I'm sticking to my guns with the outpost scenario: Wouldn't work. Basta.
Tanks don't operate by themselves with no logistical support.
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Which is exactly why the "military base overrun by zombies" scenario is bunk, bull****, inconceivable, impossible, <pick an adjective>, etc.
They don't operate without support. There are more tanks. There are helicopters. There are artillery batteries. There are regiments of infantry support.
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Unless your military base is run by skynet, it should be susceptible.
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Unless your military base is run by skynet, it should be susceptible.
To what zombies? Like honest to god shuffling dead or all the fancy variants invented for video games? Assuming you haven't had a mass outbreak inside the facilities all you need is a bloody fence with razor wire on top.
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There are many variations of zombies, and not all variations were invented by video games. Many books feature zombies that can aim and shoot. If a battalion of soldiers became zombies, you can imagine the base would fall rather easily.
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Unless your military base is run by skynet, it should be susceptible.
Zombies chewing on T-800s, now there's a nice mental image! :lol:
Almost better than the one of a zombie fighting a shark! ...which you can see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3fin4MjVw
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Thats silly. Sure, reanimated soldiers could probably take a base, but then thats simply a conventional battle, but quite frankly when people think zombie apocalypse that means shuffling dead not Universal Soldier.
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My assumption would be that any training ingrained into the person would probably remain (firing down sights, driving a tank, etc.) but that anything involving higher thinking would be diminished, or non existent.
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Firing down sights means that a gun must be in one's hand. Driving a tank means that one must be in a tank. The higher thinking is involved when picking up or entering one of the above. Zombies cannot get into a tank, so anyone in a tank will not be a zombie. Having a gun is more likely, but still involves an amount of physical dexterity zombies simply don't have.
To be clear, I'm assuming zombies the likes of which feature prominently in World War Z and the Zombie Survival Guide, which the discussion started with.
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yeah, once they can start shooting guns and operate machinery they become less zombie and more reaver.
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Firing down sights means that a gun must be in one's hand. Driving a tank means that one must be in a tank. The higher thinking is involved when picking up or entering one of the above. Zombies cannot get into a tank, so anyone in a tank will not be a zombie. Having a gun is more likely, but still involves an amount of physical dexterity zombies simply don't have.
To be clear, I'm assuming zombies the likes of which feature prominently in World War Z and the Zombie Survival Guide, which the discussion started with.
In that case, the zombie threat would quickly be a non threat, because any sturdy locked door would be a complete barrier.
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That is the whole point of my argument. Zombie apocalypses are impossible for precisely that reason (among [many] others).
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Which is exactly why the "military base overrun by zombies" scenario is bunk, bull****, inconceivable, impossible, <pick an adjective>, etc.
They don't operate without support. There are more tanks. There are helicopters. There are artillery batteries. There are regiments of infantry support.
there's not a doubt in my mind that a military base could wall themselves off from the zombie hordes. but at some point they will need to leave that base. they would need to go on recon, hunt down survivors, find supplies, etc. they would no doubt use their tanks, apcs, helicopters up to the point that fuel becomes an issue. when it does then they would have to send soldiers out on foot.
this opens up the possibility that some of those soldiers would be wounded during the course of their mission. it is likely that those wounded soldiers would be brought back into the base, where they may become zombies. if the military are aware of what it means to get bitten, they would likely quarantine anyone who was wounded, concentration camp style. then enter human nature. in zombie movies people are always concealing that they have been bitten, people keep wounded family members around hoping they might recover, possibly unknowing to anyone else behind their perimeter. you would not only need to control the perimeter, you would also have to make sure nobody is doing anything stupid.
i think i would prefer mobility over fortification. id take a light armored vehicle over a tank. a humvee with a machine gun turret would be my perfected vehicle. id keep a load of mres, water, fuel, weapons and ammo. with doors and windows (4 inch thick windows) locked, there would be no way a small number of zombies could get in. a large number may be able to flip the vehicle. id use it to try to find a ship, which i would park some distance off the coast and use as a base. even if the zombies could swim, it is unlikely they could climb onboard. i would use that as a base of operations, if the area around it gets overwhelmed by zombies, it can always be moved.
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Still sorta depends, how big is the base, how much of the overall military infrastructure remains, how large and concentrated the zombie hordes are. I mean supplies can be airlifted at worse, but to be honest I'd think rail transportation would still be viable and depending on a few factors heck even a vehicle convoy could still be manageable. Then again time is against zombie hordes anyway, after the initial zombie population is stabilized, as in the remains of humanity has hunkered down and isn't easily accessible, they are no longer going to be easily creating new zombies, and well nature's a *****. Dead organic material isn't conducive to long term existence and their going to decompose, quick.
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Still sorta depends, how big is the base, how much of the overall military infrastructure remains, how large and concentrated the zombie hordes are. I mean supplies can be airlifted at worse, but to be honest I'd think rail transportation would still be viable and depending on a few factors heck even a vehicle convoy could still be manageable. Then again time is against zombie hordes anyway, after the initial zombie population is stabilized, as in the remains of humanity has hunkered down and isn't easily accessible, they are no longer going to be easily creating new zombies, and well nature's a *****. Dead organic material isn't conducive to long term existence and their going to decompose, quick.
and/or be eaten by animals that catch the scent of meat available and wandering around.
Add to this the fact that people offshore (say, the navy/some marines) are completely cut off from the hordes, and therefore able to use thier ships as safe bases, and hummanity as it is today is actually pretty safe from zombies unless we became genre blinded or some tv-based-trope.
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there are a lot of assumptions required for that logic to work, for instance that zombies would follow the standard rules of decomposition, that animals eating the flesh of zombies would not become zombies themselves the same as if they had been bitten by a zombie. if you follow that then it should become fairly obvius how the earth would be ****ed fairly quick by the zombie apocalypse.
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Hey, Bob, if you're going to participate in the discussion, please recall that this is all assuming that the zombies behave the way they do in World War Z and the Zombie Survival Guide. That's been fairly evident from the beginning, and you keep ignoring it.
And the above is disregarding that the alternative to both of those assumptions you pointed out is more bull**** than zombies in the first place.
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Actually I think Bob's still right under those rules. I think the virus in World War Z would cross to dogs? Do I remember wrong?
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It killed 'em, but I don't remember if it zombified them.
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Actually I think Bob's still right under those rules. I think the virus in World War Z would cross to dogs? Do I remember wrong?
I don't think so. It does in Resident Evil, and the movie adaptation (:ha:) of I Am Legend. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.
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Hey, Bob, if you're going to participate in the discussion, please recall that this is all assuming that the zombies behave the way they do in World War Z and the Zombie Survival Guide. That's been fairly evident from the beginning, and you keep ignoring it.
And the above is disregarding that the alternative to both of those assumptions you pointed out is more bull**** than zombies in the first place.
ive mostly been assuming traditional zombie rules in this discussion, more night of the living dead than anything else.
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The two are almost identical, except the ones in Night of the Living Dead are everyone who's dead, regardless of cause, and the ones in Zombie Survival Guide/World War Z are only by transmission of bodily fluids (I think. Might be just saliva, actually).
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in night of the living dead it was the recently deceased were coming back to life, that pretty much included anyone who was already buried, and anyone they managed to kill. many of the zombies in notld were in funeral attire, but by the time of the defacto sequels such as Dawn of the Dead (the original, not the ****ty remake), the zombies were no longer dressed like corpses, but appeared to be people changed after the initial outbreak.
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Oh, right, that kind of zombie that exists only where the pseudo-science used to justify zombies is even more convoluted and ****ty than normal.
Fact: Zombies cannot get in the tank if you don't want them to. If there is no one in it, they will leave it alone. If there is, they will not be able to open it. At all.
Fact: Unless the zombie is someone who worked on the specific kind of tank you're using, at which point all intelligence is already gone, they won't know what the vital optics on a tank are (and since there are tiny slits in the front of most tanks used to fire and see out of, it doesn't matter)
Fact: An Abrahms tank can travel 265 miles on a single tank of gas. If you can't get somewhere to help get any errant zombies off, you're doing it wrong.
Fun Fact: An Abrahms tank can move at up to 70 mph (that I've seen) on a good highway. Zombies will fall off. Mythbusters has shown us this with much lower speeds and without a rotating turret.
The military base that gets overrun is overrun by bull**** and fiat.
Actually IIRC pretty much all tanks are designed so that they are completely sealed off in the event of a chemical or bio attack. As for clawing out the optics? Given that it is a tank I would think it would take an enormous amount of force to do that kind of damage.
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How are they even going to get on the thing to claw out the optics when it's charging around at forty miles an hour?
Actually I think Bob's still right under those rules. I think the virus in World War Z would cross to dogs? Do I remember wrong?
It just killed wildlife, those that viewed zombies as a free buffet mainly.
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Righto.
And yeah I don't think zombies would do much to a tank, or to any particularly coherent and organized force assuming secure logistics. I think a zompocalypse would be bad but something like the Loom (omg self-referential plug, bad form) would be a lot worse.
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Zombies, :lol:
I still don't get why some of us would be converted to zombies and others just be a fresh meal, might have something to do with BRAAAAAAINS I guess.
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well it depends on how hard you fight back how many of them are around, it you get wounded and flee you become a zombie, if you don't get away and especial if there are a lot of them around you'll get eaten.
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Righto.
And yeah I don't think zombies would do much to a tank, or to any particularly coherent and organized force assuming secure logistics. I think a zompocalypse would be bad but something like the Loom (omg self-referential plug, bad form) would be a lot worse.
I assume its a different Loom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loom_(video_game))?
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Righto.
And yeah I don't think zombies would do much to a tank, or to any particularly coherent and organized force assuming secure logistics. I think a zompocalypse would be bad but something like the Loom (omg self-referential plug, bad form) would be a lot worse.
I assume its a different Loom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loom_(video_game))?
Yes (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=69844.0).