Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Kolgena on December 01, 2010, 11:44:10 pm

Title: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 01, 2010, 11:44:10 pm
So while responding to Hades' thread with resized beams, it refreshed my memory that the MVP Orion has a triple barrel chin turret that fires a beam. It also has these tiny midget turrets on its side(s) that sport either terslashes or bgreens. I can't remember.

How hard would it be to take the Hecate dish turrets and stick them where appropriate on the Orion so that it doesn't look as nonsensical as it does now? I think that part of the reason was that FSPort needed an Orion that only spewed blobs. But, can't we have like, an Orion with the current turrets as a separate model in the FSPort directory to override the mediavps_3612 one?
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: mjn.mixael on December 01, 2010, 11:46:38 pm
it would require a specialized POF for sure, wouldn't be too terribly hard, but compatibility might be an issue.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 01, 2010, 11:50:34 pm
I could probably do this in PCS 2, I'll have to try it in a bit.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Qent on December 01, 2010, 11:57:16 pm
Doesn't Trashman's Orion do this? The one without extra turrets.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 01, 2010, 11:59:40 pm
I think so, but I also recall most of the community disliking the general feel of that Orion variant.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Commander Zane on December 02, 2010, 12:53:25 am
I think so, but I also recall most of the community disliking the general feel of that Orion variant.
I'm still trying to figure out why, the map setup is neater, it looks neater, and it uses unique models for the beam weapons. And there's .pofs and tables for an FS1 and FS2 version with their respected turret count.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 02, 2010, 12:57:26 am
The Orion is a touchy subject...
Some people hate the current one.
Some people hate TrashMan's.
Some people hate them all.
I hate all the haters. They are, as far as I'm concerned, the reason why the Shivan fighters never get looked at.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 02, 2010, 01:25:17 am
Can't agree more with Droid. Let the HTL ships alone and go work on ships that REALLY need love already !
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Nohiki on December 02, 2010, 01:35:54 am
I like both retail and Trashman's, the way they are. I say leave the tripple barrels, they are more than useful for mods, for example i use 1 barrel for blob, one for flak and one for beam/torpedo. If you change it, not only you get compatibility issue with port, but also with mods that might use that.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: TrashMan on December 02, 2010, 01:57:11 am
Slight correction - my Orion comes in 3 variants

FS1 stock - same turret types and numbers as in FS1
FS2 stock - same turret count, but turrets type corresponds to stock weapon mounts (beam cannon models for beam cannons)
FS2 upgrade - same as above, but with extra turrets.


And FYI - I generally avoid making shivan models because I don't feel I make good ones. And because I'm very human-centric. :drevil:
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Commander Zane on December 02, 2010, 02:00:05 am
I know there's three, but what a lot of people seem to miss is that there are those other two versions that use Retail turret counts, and immediately dismiss it because of the version with added turrets.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: T-LoW on December 02, 2010, 03:15:17 am
I like the version with that one big muzzle instead of three. It looks more orionish to me than those standard beam-pods :nod:
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 02, 2010, 06:46:12 am
BTW, never managed to grab a DL link for TrashMan's Orions. Care to provide one anyone ?
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Commander Zane on December 02, 2010, 07:08:51 am
http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.363

:nervous:
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 02, 2010, 09:42:06 am
Trashman, I don't want to come across as rude, but could we get permission take the turrets/layout on your FS2 version and copy them onto an FS2 version for the MVP Orion?

Also, I'm not sure why compatibility would be an issue. The worst case that's apparent to me is that modded Orions will be shooting from nonsensical turrets, but to me, that's far less important than canon Orions shooting from nonsensical turrets. I mean, this is unless the different turret table would flat out crash a mission upon loading.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Nohiki on December 02, 2010, 09:56:03 am
I preffer not getting an error message every time i load a mission with modded orion instead of having that tiny little unimportant piece i wouldn't notice more than two times in the entire campaign look better.......
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 02, 2010, 09:57:56 am
I don't understand how missions decide to spit out errors, so could you explain why you'd get an error message every time?
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Nohiki on December 02, 2010, 10:10:16 am
When the mission is loading it gives me a table error. Now you confused me, gotta look at it again if the problem isn't alsewhere :nervous:
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Commander Zane on December 02, 2010, 10:20:13 am
I don't get error notifications when I use TrashMan's Orions ever.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Nohiki on December 02, 2010, 10:24:59 am
I'm talking about the modded one. Nevermind that, i screwed up the table while remaking it for trashman's model. Still, i don't get why you whine about one turret when there are entire ships to be done -.-
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 02, 2010, 10:26:49 am
Because this is easy (1h's work tops), and hasn't been done for some reason.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Commander Zane on December 02, 2010, 10:40:47 am
Like I said TrashMan's Orion has a version that has the standard turret count with beam weapon models for the BGreens, TerSlashes, and AAAfs so you don't need to borrow stuff from one ship to put on the Orion, the asset is already provided.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 02, 2010, 10:44:41 am
I think so, but I also recall most of the community disliking the general feel of that Orion variant.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 02, 2010, 07:57:00 pm
and the package linked which contains Tashman's Orion actually only contains the FS2 27 turret count model and the FS1 model (no FS2 default turret count, Orion_FS1.pof and Orion_FSStock.pof are the same model)
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 02, 2010, 08:52:06 pm
That's not right, as I clearly have the version with default FS2 loadout...
I had to have gotten it from somewhere!
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: TrashMan on December 03, 2010, 02:32:02 am
Trashman, I don't want to come across as rude, but could we get permission take the turrets/layout on your FS2 version and copy them onto an FS2 version for the MVP Orion?

Knock yourself out.


Quote
and the package linked which contains Tashman's Orion actually only contains the FS2 27 turret count model and the FS1 model (no FS2 default turret count, Orion_FS1.pof and Orion_FSStock.pof are the same model)

You sure?
I'll have to check later, cause I know I have 3 versions. What's that file version anyway?
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Commander Zane on December 03, 2010, 11:31:02 am
and the package linked which contains Tashman's Orion actually only contains the FS2 27 turret count model and the FS1 model (no FS2 default turret count, Orion_FS1.pof and Orion_FSStock.pof are the same model)
This is the same pack I downloaded and it had three .pofs.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 03, 2010, 01:13:03 pm
It has three pofs, but both the Orion_FSStock.pof and Orion_FS1.pof are strictly identical, and have the 16-turrets FS1-style layout. The modified beam mounts only appear in the Orion_FS2.pof, which is also the version with 27 turrets.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Delta_V on December 03, 2010, 01:51:26 pm
Are the first 16 turrets on the upgunned model the same as on the standard model (i.e., beams are still beams, blobs are still blobs), just with and extra eleven turrets?  If that's the case, you could probably just delete the extras and use the first sixteen.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 03, 2010, 02:47:36 pm
IIRC they are, and yes you can do that. Would be better that a correct version get uploaded though.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 03, 2010, 03:55:20 pm
and the package linked which contains Tashman's Orion actually only contains the FS2 27 turret count model and the FS1 model (no FS2 default turret count, Orion_FS1.pof and Orion_FSStock.pof are the same model)
This is the same pack I downloaded and it had three .pofs.
And that's exactly what I said, you might want to reread again.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 03, 2010, 04:59:31 pm
Boo hoo it has 27 turrets.
How hard is it to hit the [X] on PCS2 to delete the subobject 11 times for christs sake.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 03, 2010, 05:08:24 pm
Trashman, I don't want to come across as rude, but could we get permission take the turrets/layout on your FS2 version and copy them onto an FS2 version for the MVP Orion?

Knock yourself out.

Woot.

Now will someone teach me how to do this? >.> <.< (Or do it for me :P)
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 03, 2010, 05:10:08 pm
Trashman, I don't want to come across as rude, but could we get permission take the turrets/layout on your FS2 version and copy them onto an FS2 version for the MVP Orion?

Knock yourself out.

Woot.

Now will someone teach me how to do this? >.> <.< (Or do it for me :P)

You have a modelling program?
Blender? 3dsMax?
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 03, 2010, 05:26:29 pm
Boo hoo it has 27 turrets.
How hard is it to hit the [X] on PCS2 to delete the subobject 11 times for christs sake.
No ****, I wasn't saying that wasn't doable at all, I was just pointing out the lack of an already made pof like such in the package and telling Zane to reread my post because I assume that he had misinterpreted it. You do this every time there's a HTL of a ship that has more turrets for modding purposes, you don't know anything anyone else doesn't know.

**** off.

EDIT: My bad, Droid803. Didn't mean to be so mean. :(
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 03, 2010, 05:29:41 pm
Chill bro, it wasn't directed at you.
It was a statement in general directed at people going 'GASP IT HAS TOO MANY TURRETS'.

It takes all of five seconds to kill them all.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: TrashMan on December 03, 2010, 05:59:58 pm
It has three pofs, but both the Orion_FSStock.pof and Orion_FS1.pof are strictly identical, and have the 16-turrets FS1-style layout. The modified beam mounts only appear in the Orion_FS2.pof, which is also the version with 27 turrets.

Hmm..I must have made a mistake when putting together the download rar. :o :o



Quote
Chill bro, it wasn't directed at you.
It was a statement in general directed at people going 'GASP IT HAS TOO MANY TURRETS'.

It takes all of five seconds to kill them all.

Correct. Not that those 11 extra turrets don't change much balance-wise (in the added tables, they are all terran turrets IIRC)
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 04, 2010, 09:15:52 am
Trashman, I don't want to come across as rude, but could we get permission take the turrets/layout on your FS2 version and copy them onto an FS2 version for the MVP Orion?

Knock yourself out.

Woot.

Now will someone teach me how to do this? >.> <.< (Or do it for me :P)

You have a modelling program?
Blender? 3dsMax?

I have PCS2 or w/e the latest version is (that barely counts lol). I could probably grab blender real quick, but do I need to if all the assets exist already?
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 04, 2010, 11:26:43 am
Yes, since PCS2 can't shuffle textures around (as far as I know of).
While you can import subobjects in PCS2 and move them around, they will still use the texture index from the source ship...and more often than not will wind up with the wrong textures.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Spicious on December 05, 2010, 12:33:53 am
While you can import subobjects in PCS2 and move them around, they will still use the texture index from the source ship...and more often than not will wind up with the wrong textures.
It'll never change if you don't ask for it.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2010, 01:20:16 am
I don't particularily mind that one, seeing as that's easily fixed by just doing it in a modelling program :P
I'd rather see retention of subobject info (such as fov, fvec/uvec those things) between exporting to max and back as that's pretty much the biggest kink in a reconversion process.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Spicious on December 05, 2010, 06:15:07 am
Too bad, it's done (and importing subobjects is less broken in other ways too) :p

I'd rather see retention of subobject info (such as fov, fvec/uvec those things) between exporting to max and back as that's pretty much the biggest kink in a reconversion process.
It's supposed to be doing that.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Nyctaeus on December 05, 2010, 11:51:54 am
While you can import subobjects in PCS2 and move them around, they will still use the texture index from the source ship...and more often than not will wind up with the wrong textures.
It'll never change if you don't ask for it.
But for me it's awesome idea. I don't know how to use modelling programs, so I'm using PCS2 even for changeing turrets/returreting [if I must]. Texture index is a big problem for me. Easy submodel rotation tool and something for change that index are everyghing what I need to be happy :).
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2010, 05:52:40 pm
Too bad, it's done (and importing subobjects is less broken in other ways too) :p

I'd rather see retention of subobject info (such as fov, fvec/uvec those things) between exporting to max and back as that's pretty much the biggest kink in a reconversion process.
It's supposed to be doing that.

Oh cool, where to get new version? :P
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Spicious on December 05, 2010, 08:54:50 pm
The usual place.
 |
 V
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 05, 2010, 09:10:06 pm
Cool.

Now, that's great and all, and a little over my head, but I was wondering if someone could silver platter the MVP Orion with Had-- turrets for me  :nervous:

I seriously have no clue where to even start.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2010, 10:12:46 pm
Hades made turrets for the orion? :wtf:
I could grab TrashMan's turrets, if thats what you mean
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 05, 2010, 10:17:52 pm
I said I was going to try and put more fitting turrets on Bob's Orion and I assume that's what he meant
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2010, 10:19:35 pm
Ah well, I'll leave it to you then if you wish to do it :P
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 05, 2010, 10:22:16 pm
Nah, I can't d it model-wise and PCS2 doesn't happen to like sub-object importing all that much
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2010, 10:24:34 pm
Alrighty then, I'll do it. Should be quick.



And done. Didn't even have to fire up MAX, did it all in PCS2. The new texture name recognition thing is awesome.
UR awsm spicious.
The turret list is a little messy due to object ordering but bite me, you'll never see it in game :P

Enjoy: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/126554/FS2/Capital01MOD.pof
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 05, 2010, 11:17:22 pm
Is that drop/play, or do I need to do a bit more modding in tables? How will FSPort like this?
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 05, 2010, 11:24:50 pm
FSPort shouldn't need it since it doesn't have any big, heavy weapons like beams at those turrets.

For FS2, it's just drag and drop.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 05, 2010, 11:25:01 pm
Rename the file to Capital01.pof and it should be drop/play.
FSPort will like it just fine, but it'll look awful queer with beam turrets firing blobs.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Hades on December 05, 2010, 11:27:47 pm
There's also how the FSPort version has three banks for each barrel on the bottom nose multipart like in FS1, I believe. FS2 still retails the 3 firing points but only has the bgreen as one bank.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Kolgena on December 05, 2010, 11:31:49 pm
Exactly. I was wondering how the hiearchies work out. Will FSPort be all queerlike with blob-flinging beam turrets if the .pof is in the data directory of mediavps_3612?

(If there isn't a conflict, then I would like to propose the turret change as something to stick into the mediavps svn)

Of course, huge thanks to Droid from me for putting the turrets up.
Title: Re: Orion Turrets
Post by: Droid803 on December 06, 2010, 12:17:40 am
There's also how the FSPort version has three banks for each barrel on the bottom nose multipart like in FS1, I believe. FS2 still retails the 3 firing points but only has the bgreen as one bank.

I kept the three banks, just in case something needed it for both... why? I donno.