Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Fury on December 30, 2010, 06:49:30 am
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Lately we have seen very good fan-made campaigns such as Wings of Dawn, Vassago's Dirge, War in Heaven, possibly others that try to utilize full capabilities of fred2_open and fs2_open.
Upgrading visuals and audio only goes so far, the original campaigns are 10 years out of date in terms of gameplay which is very important part of the experience. While mediavps is doing its best to keep FS2 alive through visual and audio upgrades, the campaign itself is today severely lacking in terms of atmosphere, depth and gameplay when you compare it to the best campaigns made by this community.
I've mentioned this several times on irc in the past, but I'd like to do to FS1 and FS2 campaigns what Silent Threat: Reborn did to Silent Threat. Better yet, I'd like to go beyond what ST:R did by revamping gameplay too, not just mission design like ST:R did.
So why aren't fan campaigns enough for better gameplay? If you have ST:R and original ST, which one would you play? I think the answer is obvious. What do people new to FS play first? The answer is again obvious, they either start with FSPort or FS2 campaign, both of which in terms of gameplay don't compare to the best anymore.
A project where you'd upgrade both FS1 and FS2 campaigns would be extremely lenghty. Particularly if original voice acting isn't used and I think it shouldn't be used because having it would severely limit what fredders can do with missions. ST:R wouldn't be anything if it had used original voice acting.
A project like this depends on fredders since all other assets are readily available, there's no need to create any new assets at all beyond good tabling. Assuming this ever gets off the ground, I'd love to have some of our best fredders on board.
Just imagine what FS1 and FS2 campaigns could be if redone from ground up to match and hopefully surpass the best fan made campaigns today. It's a shame all talented fredders are already preoccupied with other projects, but I don't think this will have any chance unless someone brings it up properly.
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I think this is a nice idea and I'd help if I'd be good for anything, but unfortunately now I can only wiki. However I do suggest keeping the Reborn tag if doing so:) No need for confusions. Best of luck!
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While mediavps is doing its best to keep FS2 alive through visual and audio upgrades, the campaign itself is today severely lacking in terms of atmosphere, depth and gameplay when you compare it to the best campaigns made by this community.
I strongly disagree.
FS1 & 2 original campaigns had great story and atmosphere.
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While mediavps is doing its best to keep FS2 alive through visual and audio upgrades, the campaign itself is today severely lacking in terms of atmosphere, depth and gameplay when you compare it to the best campaigns made by this community.
I strongly disagree.
FS1 & 2 original campaigns had great story and atmosphere.
Agree. We souldn't try to improve something what is perfect. Newer campaings are mostly worse than main FS campaigns in terms of atmosphere.
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*supports the notion and the idea*
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Seriously? They're both not perfect, they both have their quirks (lolololol argon only in Sol what the ****) and both have broken/extremely poor missions (mainly FreeSpace 2 in this reguard), they're both far from perfect.
I strongly support this, in fact, I was thinking about starting up something exactly like this, and I'd love to help in any way I can (modeling, some table work, testing, FREDding, etc).
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Perfect? Really far from it. Execution of the story, mission design and gameplay by today's standards are severely lacking. Most campaign missions are average, some being downright bad and few good. By taking what fred2_open and fs2_open is capable of today to enhance these original campaigns you can end up with a true masterpiece.
By saying you think these campaigns are perfect is pretty much same as saying retail asset quality is perfect. They never are and never will be. Capabilities of fred2_open and fs2_open as well as skills of content creators only get better by time.
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I think it's a bad Idea. These player made campaigns represent the history of FS1 and FS2. You don't rewrite history, you shouldn't rewrite these campaigns.
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Of course they're not perfect - nothing is. But depth and atmosphere are not the places where it's lacking.
From a gameplay and balance standpoint - yes, there are things I think could be improved.
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Dear Fury
In such a project, besides fredders, you'll need (very talented) writers and voice actors. And perhaps 3d animators if you're about to expand the story in cutscenes as well.
Since the comparison with the retail will be a great challenge for the best of our community, i fully agree with your proposition. I also propose, if you're about to start something like this, to plan it as publicly as possible, which means .... special talents in meditation to keep you calmed and mentally healthy.
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I think it's a bad Idea. These player made campaigns represent the history of FS1 and FS2. You don't rewrite history, you shouldn't rewrite these campaigns.
If Silent Threat can be rewritten then so can the other retail campaigns.
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I think it's a good idea because we can always play the old campaigns if we will :yes:
So improving these original campaigns are not a problem IMHO.
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As somebody who has never played a custom campaign, this scares me in all the obvious fanboy ways.
What are some of the selling points of "improved gameplay" that has been demonstrated by the community that is lacking in the official campaigns?
I'm not against mods, I just haven't gotten to them yet :). Will be starting ST:R soon :D
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What are some of the selling points of "improved gameplay" that has been demonstrated by the community that is lacking in the official campaigns?
1. AI
2. Ingame cutscenes
3. Inmission jumps and updates
4. More easteregs (specifically, the continuation of the story after the commands order to jump out).
These are the ones i can think of in 1 minute and i am not a Fredder.
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As somebody who has never played a custom campaign, this scares me in all the obvious fanboy ways.
What are some of the selling points of "improved gameplay" that has been demonstrated by the community that is lacking in the official campaigns?
I'm not against mods, I just haven't gotten to them yet :). Will be starting ST:R soon :D
play ST:R, and play BP or any of the newer mods.
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I thought the reason for ST:R was that the retail sucked even compared to the main campaigns. IMHO if you want to remake them than be my guest, but give them the : Reborn tag and state visibly that the originals should be played first... And about redesigning the missions, i think that's the highest level of herecy possible. The TOP of what i'd allow if it was up to me is changing the red alerts to in-mission jumps, but hands off the AI.
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I've wanted to do this for a while, but RL and such keep me from thinking it out. I think even something like the campaigns reimagined would be great, like this is meant to be, or so I'm reading.
If you guys need a High Noon replacement, I can work mine up to standard (cut me some slack guys, it was my first mission!) and resubmit it?
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I thought the reason for ST:R was that the retail sucked even compared to the main campaigns.
Yes, but if we're allowed to remake one portion of canon then we are logically able to remake others.
IMHO if you want to remake them than be my guest, but give them the : Reborn tag
Well no ****, of course we wouldn't go around trying t pass them off as Volition's own handiwork.
And about redesigning the missions, i think that's the highest level of herecy possible.
Heresy is a just another way of labeling something you disagree with as bad.
but hands off the AI.
Why not touch the AI? The AI as we have it in the main campaigns are extremely stupid and easy to kill, insane is no longer a challenge for me on either game.
There seems to be a misinterpretation of what this is about, this is not meant to replace the retail campaigns. It is essentially what ST:R is to ST - a remake of the old campaign/gameplay to be much better. Why throw away what's good just so you can have the same old thing you've had for years? I mean I personally much prefer FreeSpace 1 to FreeSpace 2, but that doesn't mean I'd want it remade any less.
EDIT: Not trying to rip into you or anything, as someone pointed out to me that it seemed like I was.
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If this thing really gets of the ground, the firs thing I'd propose is re-balancing of various weapons and ships and stuff...and naturally, tweaking missions to accommodate those changes.
I've tried some of those changes (capital ship turrets with better range and more punch, reduced maxim range, less, but more powerful missiles, etc..) in both FS1 and FS2 campaign and they work surprisingly well.
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Yeah, I know we could do a lot better than V did. The retail campaigns are kinda thin compared to modern fan stuff.
I'm not sure we'd necessarily want new voice acting though. Maybe we can just add new gameplay in the context of the existing VA.
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@Had: Well, the noobies might have some difficulties with better AI, but i guess that can be dealt with by freding...
@TrashMan: PI makes a heavy use of these things and it's true that it does work quite well. I really liked the maxim with FOF, it returned the akheton to the position of anti-turret gun.
@Batutta: I second that. Snipes isn't Snipes without his voice :P
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So long as these re-makes are labelled as such, I'd be for it. Canon campaigns are canon, no matter how thin they may be by modern standards.
Re-doing both retail campaigns would be a colossal undertaking, though- most of us are already familiar with the development cycle for ST:R?
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One more thing, how's it with the open-thingy? I mean the code was free, but as far as i know we technically aren't allowed to use the original voiceact. Please tell me i'm wrong at this :(
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One more thing, how's it with the open-thingy? I mean the code was free, but as far as i know we technically aren't allowed to use the original voiceact. Please tell me i'm wrong at this :(
Well, since the voice-acting is NOT included in the source code of the game engine...
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Upgrading Fs1 and Fs2 will not be as easy as upgrading Silent Threat. Thats because ST was considered to be crap and to make a campaign thats better than retail when its already good will not be easy
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I like this idea. And you know I would want to be there for cutscenes/ANIs and any other kinds of work you think I can do!
On a side note I would LOVE to see FS1 with capships that are worth a darn...
[Galatea warps in...
PILOT:Glad the calvary could make it!
GALATEA: Uh.. Pilots can you cover us please?]
:lol: Never made any sense to me....
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I think this is a fantastic idea! god knows some of FS2 missions need a bit of redoing, ie colossus vs the Sathanas :nervous:. So i am all in favor of this :nod:
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I think it's a bad idea. It'll cause grief and arguments, because while ST was more or less universally considered Crap, both FS1 and FS2, despite a few problems, were generally considered quite good. Change them, and prepare for a whole bunch of unhappy people.
Besides, while there afe a few weak spots in FS2, it's still the campaign that, ten years later, gets remembered as the defining aspect of the best space sim of all time. You really want to mess with that?
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Yes. It had a lot of ****. FS1 even more so, as far as I'm concerned. We can do (and have done) better.
If people don't like the remakes, they can always replay the originals. They're not going anywhere.
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I think it's a bad idea. It'll cause grief and arguments, because while ST was more or less universally considered Crap, both FS1 and FS2, despite a few problems, were generally considered quite good. Change them, and prepare for a whole bunch of unhappy people.
A lot of unhappy people for all the most inane reasons.
Besides, while there are a few weak spots in FS2, it's still the campaign that, ten years later, gets remembered as the defining aspect of the best space sim of all time. You really want to mess with that?
Yes, so long as it is made better.
Geez, you people don't seem to get that
These aren't replacing the old, merely supplementing them as ST:R did to ST. If you don't like the idea then don't play it.
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I fully support this. I have been playing through Fsport with the v8 AI and it kicks ass. I can only guess how cool it would be with all the other wrinkles ironed out. Re-imagining classics isn't anything new and who better to try than the members of this community. If I heard the IP rights had been sold to (your least favorite game studio) and they were going to rebuild it then I'd be worried.
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derp, oops
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Eh, well, if people want to work on this, go ahead. Personally, I suspect it'll prove to be too emotive an issue, and so I don't think it'll go far. But that's just my opinion, and I'm prepared to be proven wrong. Have at it.
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Yeah, I know we could do a lot better than V did. The retail campaigns are kinda thin compared to modern fan stuff.
Depends in what regards and what one is expecting.
And could you do a lot better? I dunno. It's not a given. We can certainly TRY, but an outright claim of superiority is premature.
I for one don't consider BP or any other fan made campaign for that matter superior to the stock FS campaign in terms of story and atmosphere.
If people want to give it a shot, I'm game and willing to help. But we need a more in-depth analysis or what and how. Exactly what missions should be changed, how, to what extent, etc.. all those things need to be decided and planned.
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I wouldn't be arrogant enough to put value on something I worked on. I leave that to others.
Actually that's a bald-faced lie, I totally would. But I don't tend to look at campaigns as binary good/bad sets. They all have strengths and weaknesses. I think we can improve FS retail campaigns while retaining their existing strengths.
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I'm waiting for someone to come along and chop your head off just because of mentioning this.
FYI I'm 100% behind this, I love the idea... I just never got to promote this because I knew the majority of the HLP community would be against it.
If you need a fredder, I'm here :yes:
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Changed my mind already. Fury you should plan this in private - top secret - SOC thing :sigh:
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Frankly, I'm surprised this hasn't been done already.
Then again, maybe I'm not. Getting anyone to agree on exactly what should be updated and what should be left alone is a massive PITA I wouldn't want to go anywhere near. If you knew what I'd change about FS1, I'd get ripped to shreds. :p
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If this happens it will be a small cabal who ignore the **** out of everyone else. Which is how things get done around here.
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No comment.
If this happens it will be a small cabal who ignore the **** out of everyone else. Which is how things get done around here.
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If this happens it will be a small cabal who ignore the **** out of everyone else. Which is how things get done around here.
...sadly.
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Like has been said many times. If people don't like it, they don't have to play it.
I don't like AoA, but I do like WiH. I don't play AoA. I also don't cry and moan about it either.
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If this happens it will be a small cabal who ignore the **** out of everyone else. Which is how things get done around here.
Which is unfortunately the only way a lot of stuff gets done right.
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I'd be willing to FRED for this if it gets off the ground.
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This would be great. Please keep the original VA.
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What such an upgrade should NOT do:
- change the story
- **** with canon
What it could do that would be good:
- balance fixes
- more challenging missions
- in-game cutscenes for added atmosphere
- consequences for all actions
- more scripted battle sequences
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What such an upgrade should NOT do:
- change the story
- **** with canon
If (and I stress 'if') this upgrade were to be along the lines of ST:R, didn't ST:R already **** with canon? I mean the Hades innit actually did something. And the plot made sense.
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If (and I stress 'if') this upgrade were to be along the lines of ST:R, didn't ST:R already **** with canon? I mean the Hades innit actually did something. And the plot made sense.
ST:R didn't **** with canon so much as normalize it so that FS1 and FS2 properly link. This was a net good.
Altering FS1 and FS2 is inevitably going to result in a net evil, as being the beginning and the end of the story, any changes made will result in serious repercussions for the rest of it.
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I think it should be done in style of High Noon and Their Finest Hour remakes (they could even be included into the remake).
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If I were to do this, I'd create a story that runs concurrent to the canon missions. There is a lot of material to play with that doesnt **** with canon at all.
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I think that Freespace 1 and Freespace 2: Reborn would be awesome.
Many of the missions in Freespace 2 felt like they had a plot in the beginning, and gradually lost it. The end result were a series of missions that had major events to tie them together, but that was about it. The plot was apparent, but it didn't flow. On top of that, the Tech Room didn't connect with in game reality at all, mostly.
Freespace 1 was a little different. It did a good job of telling the story, but if you tried to dig deeper, you'd find nothing but rot. The GTA apparently possessed no bombers for the majority of the Terran Vasudan war. Fighters were outfitted with our current naval point defenses (Avenger = Phalanax). Capital ships were large targets with ridiculous blobby weapons. Jump nodes would exist in one mission, and disappear the next. There was a sense of global strategy in the briefings, but if examined it quickly fell apart.
- I did love the very militaristic feel of FS1, but it might have been overdone to the point of boring.
- Certainly, I wish FS1s style of voice acting (very reserved) be maintained.
- Capital ships should not be as good as they are in Freespace 2: Reborn, but they need a serious overhaul. They shouldn't be able to kill each other in seconds as in FS2, but they shouldn't take more than 15 minutes either (A Leviathan duel is incredibly boring in FS1)
- Tech description overhaul; yes I know it's ****ing with canon, and some of them are fine. The Avenger description reads like a place holder.
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Freespace 1 was a little different. It did a good job of telling the story, but if you tried to dig deeper, you'd find nothing but rot. The GTA apparently possessed no bombers for the majority of the Terran Vasudan war. Fighters were outfitted with our current naval point defenses (Avenger = Phalanax). Capital ships were large targets with ridiculous blobby weapons. Jump nodes would exist in one mission, and disappear the next. There was a sense of global strategy in the briefings, but if examined it quickly fell apart.
There's no canon proof that the GTA actually did lack bombers for the majority of the war as the player is never sent on any missions which bombers would be needed. I think the ref bible says they were also in a fleet-wide refit of fighters/bombers or something, getting rid of the old and putting in the new.
Capital ships having ****ty weapons was likely due to early-game balance without shields, where fast blobs are absolute murder on easy, and even worse on higher difficulties, and it would be rather weird to have all capital ships starting to use different weapons out of nowhere during the middle of the campaign.
The jump nodes thing may just b from them not naming all the systems every time a system map showed up, which could lead to confusion and the appearance of such happening.
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I thought the reason for ST:R was that the retail sucked even compared to the main campaigns.
This. If the original Silent Threat had been as good as FS1, we probably wouldn't have done any more to it than we did to FS1. We would have made something like Vasudan Imperium our flagship campaign.
I think it's a bad idea. It'll cause grief and arguments, because while ST was more or less universally considered Crap, both FS1 and FS2, despite a few problems, were generally considered quite good.
This too.
Frankly, I'm surprised this hasn't been done already.
Actually, it has. :) This was the original purpose behind the FreeSpace Upgrade Project. The plan was to create a campaign with strictly retail assets, but which could be played in both retail and SCP to compare the differences between both. This was to be accompanied by a super-duper huge project that went all-out using as much improved and upgraded stuff as possible.
It never went anywhere because it turned into development hell via design-by-committee. People did too much talking and not enough working, and when they did produce something they couldn't agree on it. This is likely how FS1:Reborn or FS2:Reborn would turn out. If Galemp and I, a two-person team, had so much development conflict, how much conflict do you think would be present in a large team?
If this happens it will be a small cabal who ignore the **** out of everyone else. Which is how things get done around here.
Perceptively stated.
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Large teams don't necessarily mean any conflict (in my perhaps fortunate experience.) This would probably be done by a very small group of high-quality mission and gameplay designers who have worked together well in the past.
Unfortunately those groups tend to be pretty busy.
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It'd need to have a good leader, someone who is decisive yet very open minded to suggestions, and one who isn't too attached to canon so it doesn't hold back good decisions.
also i'd like to mentio nthati f we change the avenger fluff then we should change a lot of FS2 fluff that's stupid, like argon only being in sol
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If I were to do this, I'd create a story that runs concurrent to the canon missions. There is a lot of material to play with that doesnt **** with canon at all.
Then that's not really a "upgrade" of FS2, as much as another campaign set during the FS2 one. Heck , I did that (the first Flames of War), other people did it... That's really not the way to do it.
Adding one or tow mission...ok, if they are nicely done and all that. But going in a different direction and telling another story. No. Just no.
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Well given that we're changing the weapons and balance and stuff, I think changing canon is probably already going to happen, to some extent.
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Would such a remake be on a per-mission basis (or combine/split missions) ?
I would also assume the primary goal of these remakes are to make the missions "better" and should only involve FRED, and not need any Voice/Art/Cutscene work.
The way I see it, every now and again somebody pops up with an HTL model of something, why not just piecemeal release "HTL" missions? (I'm sure I'm using HTL out of context, wtf does it mean, but I'm sure you understand what I'm getting at)
If it was done in the above fashion then I'd be a happy horse, ST was crap which is surely a big reason why ST:R was (from what I've read) very well received.
My memory is hazy as hell, although I hope to have it totally refreshed over the next couple weeks, but what are some of the stand-out missions that need redoing from FS1/2?
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The remake would involve implementing Fury (or equivalent) AI and increasing the scale and complexity of the missions without, hopefully, altering any cutscene, model or voice assets.
At least in mah brain.
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I'm sure I'm using HTL out of context, wtf does it mean
Hardware Transformation and Lighting.
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It has always annoyed me that people keep calling hi-poly models HTL models, HTL means something very different and has nothing to do with models.
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Not on HLP it doesn't. Live with it.
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It has always annoyed me that people keep calling hi-poly models HTL models, HTL means something very different and has nothing to do with models.
But it sounds coooool. :(
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Well given that we're changing the weapons and balance and stuff, I think changing canon is probably already going to happen, to some extent.
Not really....damage, RoF and range numbers of weapons should not be considered "hard" universe canon, but gameplay decisions that are divorced from the universe (setting) itself.
However, changing overall story events is a far more serious matter. The chain of events has to be kept the same. Adding more ships to a battle, directing it a bit differently - all fine. But the overall plot and atmosphere should be left as they are.
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Why don't you make a thread that consists on a kind of competition, with all missions displayed and listed, everyone grabs a mission and tries to alter it to the best possible thing (perhaps after changing the weapons and stuff), and then people vote in the end and bang, we get FS:R?
Perhaps chaotic, but would present a possibility for everyone to contribute to the campaigns that are the most central ones to everyone in here.
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Why don't you make a thread that consists on a kind of competition, with all missions displayed and listed, everyone grabs a mission and tries to alter it to the best possible thing (perhaps after changing the weapons and stuff), and then people vote in the end and bang, we get FS:R?
Perhaps chaotic, but would present a possibility for everyone to contribute to the campaigns that are the most central ones to everyone in here.
Sounds good at first, but runs the risk of dying early (bystander effect?) or coming out with a botched, disharmonious project.
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Yeah I know :)
But I pain a little by knowing that someone with incredible different tastes than my own will do these things....
At least try to maintain the fast pace of the game, and don't do those kind of in-game animations that prolong for minutes while the camera spans 2 degrees per hour. They kinda fit with the new campaigns because it sets a new mood, but the old mood doesn't fit with it. I hope the fredders realise this ahead of time.
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On the subject of in-game cutscenes, I'll throw in my 2 cents.
They don't bother me at the beginning or end of missions as much, but when they happen while I'm trying to shoot at some one, dang-it, it pisses me off... (I'm lookin at you WiH, regardless of how much I like you...)
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Why don't you make a thread that consists on a kind of competition, with all missions displayed and listed, everyone grabs a mission and tries to alter it to the best possible thing (perhaps after changing the weapons and stuff), and then people vote in the end and bang, we get FS:R?
Perhaps chaotic, but would present a possibility for everyone to contribute to the campaigns that are the most central ones to everyone in here.
It has one flaw - lack of overall direction. And making consequences like "ship X destroyed in mission 3, will not appear in mission 10" becomes more difficult.
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Why don't you make a thread that consists on a kind of competition, with all missions displayed and listed, everyone grabs a mission and tries to alter it to the best possible thing (perhaps after changing the weapons and stuff), and then people vote in the end and bang, we get FS:R?
Perhaps chaotic, but would present a possibility for everyone to contribute to the campaigns that are the most central ones to everyone in here.
This might work except for the fact that FRED academy hasn't worked out too well.
FWIW, I agree with Black Wolf and Goober5000 but would love to be proven wrong. Changing some of the events so they are timed better, changing the balance issues so they work better, changing the AI, etc would all be good improvements. But changing the VA or rewriting entire missions or adding new ones? I don't see that happening without a LOT of contention, to be honest.
And I don't think you can look to ST:R as the be-all example as it doesn't necessarily fit the bill for several reasons. ST:R changed the original ST from a FS1 expansion to a bridge between the two games and their established facts, even if there were creative liberties. With FS1 and FS2, those stories don't have closed bookends like Silent Threat did.
I can see individual missions being redone ala High Noon and Bearbaiting, but given how much contention there is on the forums between small teams or when different models for consideration come up, I'm very curious to know how it would all play out.
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This would only happen if a few skilled, compatible FREDders became available from their existing projects. It would under no circumstances be done the way Luis Dias proposes. It will probably not happen for some time and may never happen at all.
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yeah that's more like what I think it will happen.
But hey at least the idea is in the air ;)
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For what it's worth, I also approve of the idea.
Though probably, instead of going with the goal of redoing everything, just focus on the least fun or most broken missions and work up from there. For example, the two examples mentioned already.
Make it a FS1/2 FREDders' Cut, instead of so much a Reborn.
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I like the idea but like many others I fear this project may become too big in scope if it tries to tackle the monumental task of completely rewriting the main campaigns. Perhaps recreating existing mission profiles using the currently available resources would be the best approach at least as a start.
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Well first the team lead (guessing it's Fury?) needs to lay down what exactly this is going to be, first, I reckon. We've got Freespace: Reimagined, Freespace:Furified, and Freespace:Reloaded, floating around here. ;)
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Exactly. Before anything starts, things have to be put "on paper".
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Exactly. Before anything starts, things have to be put "on paper".
Ok, just poll it!!
(That was a joke)
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Freespace:Furified
:shaking:
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Freespace:Furified
:shaking:
http://media.photobucket.com/image/furry%20purge/GhostSock/Daemonhunterantifurry.jpg
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if this gets done it's not going to get done by putting anything on paper in public or listening to the dictates of a 'team lead'.
for now, let it rest. if conditions are right it may begin.
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'dictates of a team lead'? Seriously?
At the moment, Fury's the only bloke actively onboard here, to my knowledge. He's been pretty vague about what this 'upgrade' is going to entail. We've got people suggesting how it should be done, when it hasn't even been clear what this upgrade is going to be, with people talking about what that should be as well.
This is like trying to run and walk at the same time, in my opinion.
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fury, myself and others have been discussing this for some time
if it happens it'll happens when some fredders free up and it'll probably work pretty democratically
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Exactly. What this needs is real fredding talent, which simply isn't currently available. So until few good fredders are freed up from their current projects, this isn't going anywhere. And when they become free, we'll discuss what this project really will be about in private.
The only reason I posted this topic was to get fredder attention. Though of course I could have done that via PM's instead, which at the moment seems like it had been smarter choice.
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that is a most salubrious course of action
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salubrious
sa·lu·bri·ous/səˈlo͞obrēəs/Adjective
1. Health-giving; healthy: "salubrious weather".
2. (of a place) Pleasant; not run-down
Just cause I had to look it up too. :lol:
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dilmah you giant baby, unblock your pms, i have something for you
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fury, myself and others have been discussing this for some time
if it happens it'll happens when some fredders free up and it'll probably work pretty democratically
That's what I mean by saying "on paper"...meaning than the details on what is to be modified need to be determined (between those that will work on this) before anything can begin.
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fury, myself and others have been discussing this for some time
if it happens it'll happens when some fredders free up and it'll probably work pretty democratically
Sure.
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fury, myself and others have been discussing this for some time
if it happens it'll happens when some fredders free up and it'll probably work pretty democratically
Sure.
unlock pms
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Done'd, I think.
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I'm pretty much with Black Wolf and Goober on this one. More importantly I may have spotted a danger that others haven't mentioned yet.
From Fury's post there seems to be an intention to replace the standard FS1 and FS2 campaigns with these ones as the ones newbies play first (in the same way that you can still play Silent Threat instead of ST:R but I'll be buggered if I can think of a time anyone has ever recommended someone do so).
The problem with this approach is "What if the new campaign turns off newbies for the same reason quite a few veterans will probably hate it too?" Unlike Blue Planet, Transcend, etc where we are dealing with people who already know the FS universe in this case you'd be tinkering with people's first exposure to the game.
What do you do if 20% of the community love the changes, 20% hate them and the rest are ambivalent or feel there's as much good as bad?
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It's not that it automatically replaces original campaigns, exactly the opposite. It'll only be recommended if it lives up to the expectations. And depending on how much of a rework it'll end up to be, the less chance there is for it to be recommended as first to play. Regardless of how it'll be received in the community, I still want to pursue it.
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I'm willing to lend a hand to the project.
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I'd be willing to help too, but whether that help is necessary (or desired...) is another matter. :lol:
:(