[Fury]

Lately we have seen very good fan-made campaigns such as Wings of Dawn, Vassago's Dirge, War in Heaven, possibly others that try to utilize full capabilities of fred2_open and fs2_open.

Upgrading visuals and audio only goes so far, the original campaigns are 10 years out of date in terms of gameplay which is very important part of the experience. While mediavps is doing its best to keep FS2 alive through visual and audio upgrades, the campaign itself is today severely lacking in terms of atmosphere, depth and gameplay when you compare it to the best campaigns made by this community.

I've mentioned this several times on irc in the past, but I'd like to do to FS1 and FS2 campaigns what Silent Threat: Reborn did to Silent Threat. Better yet, I'd like to go beyond what ST:R did by revamping gameplay too, not just mission design like ST:R did.

So why aren't fan campaigns enough for better gameplay? If you have ST:R and original ST, which one would you play? I think the answer is obvious. What do people new to FS play first? The answer is again obvious, they either start with FSPort or FS2 campaign, both of which in terms of gameplay don't compare to the best anymore.

A project where you'd upgrade both FS1 and FS2 campaigns would be extremely lenghty. Particularly if original voice acting isn't used and I think it shouldn't be used because having it would severely limit what fredders can do with missions. ST:R wouldn't be anything if it had used original voice acting.

A project like this depends on fredders since all other assets are readily available, there's no need to create any new assets at all beyond good tabling. Assuming this ever gets off the ground, I'd love to have some of our best fredders on board.

Just imagine what FS1 and FS2 campaigns could be if redone from ground up to match and hopefully surpass the best fan made campaigns today. It's a shame all talented fredders are already preoccupied with other projects, but I don't think this will have any chance unless someone brings it up properly.

[ktistai228]

I think this is a nice idea and I'd help if I'd be good for anything, but unfortunately now I can only wiki. However I do suggest keeping the Reborn tag if doing so:) No need for confusions. Best of luck!

[TrashMan]

While mediavps is doing its best to keep FS2 alive through visual and audio upgrades, the campaign itself is today severely lacking in terms of atmosphere, depth and gameplay when you compare it to the best campaigns made by this community.

I strongly disagree.
FS1 & 2 original campaigns had great story and atmosphere.

[Nyctaeus]

While mediavps is doing its best to keep FS2 alive through visual and audio upgrades, the campaign itself is today severely lacking in terms of atmosphere, depth and gameplay when you compare it to the best campaigns made by this community.

I strongly disagree.
FS1 & 2 original campaigns had great story and atmosphere.

Agree. We souldn't try to improve something what is perfect. Newer campaings are mostly worse than main FS campaigns in terms of atmosphere.

[pecenipicek]

*supports the notion and the idea*

[Hades]

Seriously? They're both not perfect, they both have their quirks (lolololol argon only in Sol what the ****) and both have broken/extremely poor missions (mainly FreeSpace 2 in this reguard), they're both far from perfect.

I strongly support this, in fact, I was thinking about starting up something exactly like this, and I'd love to help in any way I can (modeling, some table work, testing, FREDding, etc).

[Fury]

Perfect? Really far from it. Execution of the story, mission design and gameplay by today's standards are severely lacking. Most campaign missions are average, some being downright bad and few good. By taking what fred2_open and fs2_open is capable of today to enhance these original campaigns you can end up with a true masterpiece.

By saying you think these campaigns are perfect is pretty much same as saying retail asset quality is perfect. They never are and never will be. Capabilities of fred2_open and fs2_open as well as skills of content creators only get better by time.

[Macfie]

I think it's a bad Idea.  These player made campaigns represent the history of FS1 and FS2.  You don't rewrite history, you shouldn't rewrite these campaigns.

[TrashMan]

Of course they're not perfect - nothing is. But depth and atmosphere are not the places where it's lacking.

From a gameplay and balance standpoint - yes, there are things I think could be improved.

[peterv]

Dear Fury
In such a project, besides fredders, you'll need (very talented) writers and voice actors. And perhaps 3d animators if you're about to expand the story in cutscenes as well.
Since the comparison with the retail will be a great challenge for the best of our community, i fully agree with your proposition. I also propose, if you're about to start something like this, to plan it as publicly as possible, which means .... special talents in meditation to keep you calmed and mentally healthy.

[Hades]

I think it's a bad Idea.  These player made campaigns represent the history of FS1 and FS2.  You don't rewrite history, you shouldn't rewrite these campaigns.

If Silent Threat can be rewritten then so can the other retail campaigns.

[Satellight]

I think it's a good idea because we can always play the old campaigns if we will 

So improving these original campaigns are not a problem IMHO.

[carn1x]

As somebody who has never played a custom campaign, this scares me in all the obvious fanboy ways.

What are some of the selling points of "improved gameplay" that has been demonstrated by the community that is lacking in the official campaigns?

I'm not against mods, I just haven't gotten to them yet . Will be starting ST:R soon

[peterv]

What are some of the selling points of "improved gameplay" that has been demonstrated by the community that is lacking in the official campaigns?

1. AI
2. Ingame cutscenes
3. Inmission jumps and updates
4. More easteregs (specifically, the continuation of the story after the commands order to jump out).

These are the ones i can think of in 1 minute and i am not a Fredder.

[pecenipicek]

As somebody who has never played a custom campaign, this scares me in all the obvious fanboy ways.

What are some of the selling points of "improved gameplay" that has been demonstrated by the community that is lacking in the official campaigns?

I'm not against mods, I just haven't gotten to them yet . Will be starting ST:R soon

play ST:R, and play BP or any of the newer mods.

[Nohiki]

I thought the reason for ST:R was that the retail sucked even compared to the main campaigns. IMHO if you want to remake them than be my guest, but give them the : Reborn tag and state visibly that the originals should be played first... And about redesigning the missions, i think that's the highest level of herecy possible. The TOP of what i'd allow if it was up to me is changing the red alerts to in-mission jumps, but hands off the AI.

[Dilmah G]

I've wanted to do this for a while, but RL and such keep me from thinking it out. I think even something like the campaigns reimagined would be great, like this is meant to be, or so I'm reading.

If you guys need a High Noon replacement, I can work mine up to standard (cut me some slack guys, it was my first mission!) and resubmit it?

[Hades]

I thought the reason for ST:R was that the retail sucked even compared to the main campaigns.

Yes, but if we're allowed to remake one portion of canon then we are logically able to remake others.

IMHO if you want to remake them than be my guest, but give them the : Reborn tag

Well no ****, of course we wouldn't go around trying t pass them off as Volition's own handiwork.

And about redesigning the missions, i think that's the highest level of herecy possible.

Heresy is a just another way of labeling something you disagree with as bad.

but hands off the AI.

Why not touch the AI? The AI as we have it in the main campaigns are extremely stupid and easy to kill, insane is no longer a challenge for me on either game.

There seems to be a misinterpretation of what this is about, this is not meant to replace the retail campaigns. It is essentially what ST:R is to ST - a remake of the old campaign/gameplay to be much better.  Why throw away what's good just so you can have the same old thing you've had for years? I mean I personally much prefer FreeSpace 1 to FreeSpace 2, but that doesn't mean I'd want it remade any less.

EDIT: Not trying to rip into you or anything, as someone pointed out to me that it seemed like I was.

[TrashMan]

If this thing really gets of the ground, the firs thing I'd propose is re-balancing of various weapons and ships and stuff...and naturally, tweaking missions to accommodate those changes.

I've tried some of those changes (capital ship turrets with better range and more punch, reduced maxim range, less, but more powerful missiles, etc..) in both FS1 and FS2 campaign and they work surprisingly well.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, I know we could do a lot better than V did. The retail campaigns are kinda thin compared to modern fan stuff.

I'm not sure we'd necessarily want new voice acting though. Maybe we can just add new gameplay in the context of the existing VA.