Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Rga_Noris on January 26, 2011, 10:59:16 pm

Title: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 26, 2011, 10:59:16 pm
Alright, here it is. Thanks to everyone who provided useful feedback and help. I would especially like to thank Zacam, Hades, MjnMixael, Galemp, Vasudan Admiral, Esarai, and the rest of the FSU team.

Some brief instruction: Download whatever texture size you want, but keep in mind that your computer may be able to handle more than you think. The SathMod folder points to the 3.6.12 MVPs, so just select it as your mod.

Credits:

Mesh: Rga_Noris
Diffuse and Glow Maps: Rga_Noris
Resized Diffuse and Glows, All Shines and Normals: Zacam
Thruster Glows: Hades

1024^2 textures:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/m1457ndly47mryu/SathMod.7z

2048^2 textures:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/m8so1c586dhkwt5/SathMod-2048.7z

4096^2 textures:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/d6xbb6ilniiro48/SathMod-4096.7z

(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/SathShow04-2.png)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Ravenholme on January 26, 2011, 11:12:28 pm
Please change the flak, but otherwise I quite like it, though I think some may take umbrage at the "bug" like aesthetic. Personally, it was a giant space-going tick from the start, so emphasising that gets no criticism from me.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Asteroth on January 26, 2011, 11:46:30 pm
Awesome.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on January 26, 2011, 11:46:58 pm
Yes, the flak turrets are especially Aperture Science.

Overall, it's beastly though. I also like how the pipe neck got changed.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rampage on January 26, 2011, 11:57:50 pm
 :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

-INFTeam
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: rscaper1070 on January 26, 2011, 11:58:09 pm
That's some serious kick ass nightmare fuel you've built there. :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: esarai on January 26, 2011, 11:59:35 pm
This is going to make the FS2 campaign so much more fun.

Prepare for epic Triple-D.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 27, 2011, 12:01:20 am
Yes, the flak turrets are especially Aperture Science.

Overall, it's beastly though. I also like how the pipe neck got changed.

Boom. THAT is the perfect description of the flak. I could not put my finger on it. I have an issue with thinking of a cool things that have no theme to them what so ever, and still implimenting them where they do not belong.

Also, between this and the Colly, High Noon will likely kill your computer and get your girl friend pregnant.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Flipside on January 27, 2011, 12:03:22 am
When you are dead I will be still alive.....

Seriously though, that looks really, really nice to me :)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on January 27, 2011, 12:09:40 am
I just noticed the placement of the fighter bay. It's a giant space flea that craps fighters.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: esarai on January 27, 2011, 12:10:53 am
Also, between this and the Colly, High Noon will likely kill your computer and get your girl friend pregnant.

Just keep the texture count under extreme lock and key, secured behind 5 layers of 5000 MT-rated blast doors.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: T-LoW on January 27, 2011, 06:58:45 am
I'm curious what the new plating texture will look like. Will it be an upgraded version of the zigzag plates the retail Sath has or will it have an entirely different look?

I can't believe that :v: doesn't comment these incredible improvements of their original game models (Cain, Lilith, Hatshepsut and all the other shining gems).
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on January 27, 2011, 08:32:12 am
I think the nose would bear a more aesthetic liking if the top didn't have that gap still, but everything else is great.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: peterv on January 27, 2011, 10:17:13 am
... High Noon will likely kill your computer and get your girl friend pregnant.

In which case I'll have to discuss something with High Noon? HTF am i suppose do do that?  :wtf:

Super model BTW.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 27, 2011, 11:09:08 am
Yeah, I'm curious to know what the texturing will look like too. I basically turned te model over to c914 and said go crazy. He said he would have something to show by Sunday, but I have not heard from him in over a week and he has not returned any PM's. That's kind of his style though. Vanish for a week or so, only to return with a jar of awesome sauce.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Shivan Hunter on January 27, 2011, 12:02:21 pm
OMG

Now I know how 100 of these were able to destroy Capella. CAPELLA is a GPU! And they melted it with all their uber awesome hi-poly awesomeness! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!11onetwothree
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: MatthTheGeek on January 27, 2011, 12:15:12 pm
Well, a single Karuna would melt it much faster than 80 untextured Saths, however high-poly they may be.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on January 27, 2011, 12:40:14 pm
Which are being further optimized. :P
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Satellight on January 27, 2011, 02:31:35 pm
I find this model so detailled that it almost hurt my eyes  :eek2:

In others words : good work  :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 27, 2011, 02:42:34 pm
The detail0 of the Colly with all of its turrets is 99299 polies. The Sath is going to be rather close to this. What you see above comes in at about 75K without any turrets, which is damn close to what the Colly is sans turrets.

The texturing will consist of 3 2048 textures, a small debris texture, and a possibly a special LOD textures, depending on how I do tackle that one. So yeah, it should not actually be too horrible to your comps.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on January 27, 2011, 03:03:41 pm
Out of curiosity, what's the poly and texture count on the Karuna? Just so we can anticipate the hit on our systems.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on January 27, 2011, 03:34:26 pm
I wouldn't bother with what the Karuna does now since it's planned to be optimized even more (With a remade model by Hades) - as I said before.
So what it does now will be different in time.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Col. Fishguts on January 27, 2011, 03:40:36 pm
Out of curiosity, what's the poly and texture count on the Karuna? Just so we can anticipate the hit on our systems.

The Karuna has 41567 53751 polygons (including all submodels) and uses 25 (!!!) individual diffuse textures of various sizes, and it has no LODs. Given that "Delenda Est" runs reasonably smooth with 4 Karunas on screen on my 2.5 year old PC, I wouldn't worry too much about the new Collie or Sath.

More on topic: That's a mighty impressive model, I mostly like what I see... there are a few parts I would have done differently, but then again this is your baby and you can do whatever the hell you like. I'm curious as to how this will look when textured.

EDIT: Derp, Hades is right about the polycount... it's late and I should go to sleep ;)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Hades on January 27, 2011, 03:53:11 pm
Actually, you're looking at the child polycount for the Karuna, the actual total polycount is 53751 triangles.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: NGTM-1R on January 27, 2011, 03:55:47 pm
Odds this model will have the necessary animation to starnuke ingame? There are a number of mods out there that would be very happy with you if it could...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Hades on January 27, 2011, 04:07:52 pm
From what I recall about FSU discussions about it is that it may be possible.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 27, 2011, 04:36:18 pm
Yep, it is possible. Rotation is all that should be needed to make the anim work in game, but it seeing as how the turrets at the end of the arms are, well, turrets, the version with the functional animation would not be functional as a Sath. It would be just a set peice.

The current running idea is to have the arms do their thing, but also the spine plates will stand up like hair on a dog. Not straight up, but clearly raised.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Galemp on January 27, 2011, 04:43:05 pm
The detail0 of the Colly with all of its turrets is 99299 polies.

More than half of that is in detail boxes, which you shouldn't see more than two of at a time. I don't know if the Sath is capable of such optimization, but you might want to consider it.

Quote
The texturing will consist of 3 2048 textures, a small debris texture, and a possibly a special LOD textures, depending on how I do tackle that one. So yeah, it should not actually be too horrible to your comps.

You ought to be able to handle LOD1 with the main hull texture. Try to reserve some space on one of the textures for a top, bottom, and side view of the whole textured model to map to LOD 2 and 3, instead of adding yet another texture.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mongoose on January 27, 2011, 05:26:33 pm
This is a really awesome-looking model, and I feel bad about saying something that isn't glowingly positive about it, but just as a matter of personal tastes, I'm not sure I like where you went with all of the spines and such on the sides and the scales along the spine.  Maybe it's just me, but I always viewed the Sathanas as this massive, dense, solid lump of black-and-red evil.  For lack of a better term, some of the details you added almost make certain parts of the ship look fragile, as if some of those greebles might snap off with a single bomb hit.  In some crazy alternate fantasy world where I had actual creativity and modeling skills, I feel like I would have kept those side plates as fairly smooth sheets of armor.  But again, that's all personal preference, and it's still a terrific-looking model as it stands. :)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Asteroth on January 27, 2011, 07:22:26 pm
Maybe it's just me, but I always viewed the Sathanas as this massive, dense, solid lump of black-and-red evil.  For lack of a better term, some of the details you added almost make certain parts of the ship look fragile, as if some of those greebles might snap off with a single bomb hit.
Well, quite a few shivan ships have that same "fragile" look.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mongoose on January 27, 2011, 11:48:03 pm
Yeah, they do, but the Sathanas always seemed much more solid to me as a whole, at least in the body section.  It sort of has a Demon thing going on, in a way.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on January 28, 2011, 12:42:02 am
Keep in mind that the massive size is poorly illustrated here. You can hide cruisers within the nooks and crannies. In game, what seems like a small detail is actually the size of a Cain. This will likely decrease the perceived fragility. Also, the texture should bring in all sorts of evil aesthetic.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mongoose on January 28, 2011, 02:02:16 am
Yeah, I did kind of realize as I was writing that up that the scale of those screenshots is really throwing off the actual final in-game ship.  I'm sure it'll look pretty crazy when you're flying around it. :)

On a more practical note, I don't envy you (or whomever) the task of getting those front beam cannon subsystems aligned right, lest Bearbaiting become completely impossible. :p
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on January 28, 2011, 11:04:43 pm
On a more practical note, I don't envy you (or whomever) the task of getting those front beam cannon subsystems aligned right, lest Bearbaiting become completely impossible. :p

Indeed. Between this and the Colossus, there is (no pun intended) a massive amount of testing that will be taking place.

In fact, we may need an official Beta Test team. It has worked out reasonably well in the past, the only issue being having a dedicated core able, capable and willing and well versed in handling the FSO engine, especially if we have them running directly from (albeit Read-Only) SVN content.

Cause as good as any of us are, we are still just individuals and we can't in and of ourselves catch everything.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: GT-Keravnos on February 05, 2011, 03:50:29 pm
I think it's a good thing that you updated what sathanas looks like.
It was too blurry before, especially when compared with all the new and improved spaceships and fighters already done.
I hope for more and better designs in the future. Ships to kill Sathanas with.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Shivan Hunter on February 06, 2011, 11:41:33 pm
Yeah, with the FS engine especially, a poorly optimized model is far, far worse than a massively detailed one. *cough*Karuna*cough*

Either way... can't wait to see what gets done texture side!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 10, 2011, 09:31:49 pm
I am sad to say that c914 has not been in contact for some time, and many PM's have gone unanswered. A while ago he stated that in two weeks he would be able to show me some progress, but I have not heard from him since then and it has been well over two weeks.

That being said, I went ahead and gave it a go myself. Be nice, this is my first texture job!

(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/TextureSamp.png)

Planned: Obviously finish it... and darken it. All of the red will be in the glow map.

FAQ (from those that have seen it):

Q: What's with the yellow bits?
A: This is a direct note from the book of c914. His Cain actually features this yellow/gold a fair amount. It keeps the somewhat desaturated doomish look while adding subtly changes. I may have over done it a bit though.

Q: When is it going to be done?
A: I have no idea. Soon? Hopefully before March.

Q: Why have you not added any red?
A: This will be in the Glow map.

Q: Will you use any tiling?
A: No.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 10, 2011, 09:53:08 pm
Keep the basic shape of the flak turrets, but make them uglier and more angular, and make the barrels triangular or rectangular. The Shivans are not bugs and do not have organic ships; try incorporating some of the jagged mechanical motifs of FS1 Shivans into the design to add a more aggressive edge, especially in the turrets. Hard edges and acute angles = good, flowing sculpted arty shapes = bad.

The texture looks damn good so far, but the yellowish panels should be purple or something; they remind me of the Triton right now. The Triton is not scary.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Shivan Hunter on February 10, 2011, 09:55:36 pm
So I just looked at the latest posts in this thread

and I

JIZZED

IN

MY PANTS
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 10, 2011, 09:59:58 pm
Turrets will look aggressive.

As for using FS1 stylings, I will use some. But this is not an FS1 ship, and FS2 is just as canon as FS1. Also, FS tends to take a departure from the Aggressive pointyness at times. Look at the Lucy. It's forward arms are no more aggressive than the Saths, and it has an overall smooth appearance, with curved carapace looking peices. It also undeniably looks a bit like a crustacean.

Shivan Hunter: Sigtau said the same thing. While I appreciate the compliments, I am not to be held liable for any ruined undergarments.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: sigtau on February 10, 2011, 10:15:18 pm
Shivan Hunter: Sigtau said the same thing. While I appreciate the compliments, I am not to be held liable for any ruined undergarments.

/me testifies to this. :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rodo on February 10, 2011, 10:17:17 pm
I wish I knew how to texture that good.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on February 10, 2011, 10:32:46 pm
O.O

I'm okay with it if you texture the whole thing.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Galemp on February 11, 2011, 06:14:35 pm
After I cleaned the juice out of my nose, I thought about the yellow. It's pretty cool--matches the Nephilim. I wouldn't mind seeing some more desaturated green or purple in different areas of the hull, either.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 11, 2011, 10:41:16 pm
Hades and I talked a bit about the purple and green. It may find a place.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 28, 2011, 05:13:11 pm
Just a quick update. Texturing is just under about 1/3 done.

(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/SathShowOff.png)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Dragon on February 28, 2011, 05:18:42 pm
Wow, can't wait for the finished version (and the Collosus).
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: SkycladGuardian on February 28, 2011, 05:20:33 pm
 :jaw:
This is absolutely awesome.

The essence of shivanity, fear and coolness moulded into this ship.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: StarSlayer on February 28, 2011, 05:39:10 pm
Has a bit of a stained glass effect from that angle, like a giant Cathedral of Death. 
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2011, 05:46:34 pm
Those are nice red blobs. Where did you get the inspiration to do those?

I can alraedy imagine the new cutscenes fredders will invent with this one...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 28, 2011, 05:47:30 pm
Those are nice red blobs. Where did you get the inspiration to do those?

Renal Medulla and a volcano.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: T-LoW on February 28, 2011, 05:48:47 pm
This is a priest of death - and it's praying for war.

! D-A-M-N !
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Luis Dias on February 28, 2011, 05:49:29 pm
Those are nice red blobs. Where did you get the inspiration to do those?

Renal Medulla and a volcano.

:)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: AthlonBoy on February 28, 2011, 05:57:45 pm
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

God damn, man. Epic.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Lucika on February 28, 2011, 05:58:12 pm
I'd say "I wanna have sex with that ship" but that would sound gross :nervous:

Awesome job :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: StarSlayer on February 28, 2011, 06:03:49 pm
I'd say "I wanna have sex with that ship" but that would sound gross :nervous:

Awesome job :yes:

I'd love to see what medical advice Mordin Solus would give for that coupling.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 28, 2011, 06:05:05 pm
"All she ever wants to do is destroy stars! It's like I'm just an accessory when she needs a break..."
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: bobbtmann on February 28, 2011, 06:25:03 pm
That looks great! How many seperate textures are you using?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Topgun on February 28, 2011, 07:36:31 pm
Just a quick update. Texturing is just under about 1/3 done.

(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/SathShowOff.png)

Its like my soul just came.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: esarai on February 28, 2011, 07:54:53 pm
Dear god...

They should've sent a poet.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 28, 2011, 08:06:14 pm
I refuse to offer congratulations until I see it in proper lighting.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on February 28, 2011, 08:35:26 pm
I refuse to offer congratulations until I see it in proper lighting.

No one asked you to offer anything anyways. Soon you will be able to see it 'properly' blow a Colossus to bits.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rodo on February 28, 2011, 08:44:18 pm
wtf is that!, it's a giant pasta frola!  :p


no seriously, lovely work so far man.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on February 28, 2011, 09:30:03 pm
bum bum bum bum

Agnus Dei
La La La
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Black Wolf on February 28, 2011, 11:33:14 pm
That being said, I went ahead and gave it a go myself. Be nice, this is my first texture job![/i]

I kind of hate you a little bit right now. :|

Seriously though, really incredible work.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on March 01, 2011, 12:22:52 am
I see both beauty and the embodiment of fear before me. Amazing.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 01, 2011, 08:45:07 am
bobbtman, I'm using three diffuse textures. I will release a 4096 and a 2048 version.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: GT-Keravnos on March 01, 2011, 11:16:01 am
All Squadrons! Lock and load. Engines first.

Guns! Fire as you bear.

FSU, thanks for clearing up the picture.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Snail on March 01, 2011, 01:59:47 pm
Well, **** me...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: FSW on March 01, 2011, 05:09:26 pm
Amazing. This is going to be something very special when it's finished.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mongoose on March 01, 2011, 06:07:15 pm
Wow...I had reservations about certain aspects of the model beforehand, but those textures really make it pop. :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Spoon on March 01, 2011, 06:30:20 pm
Sweet
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Nyctaeus on March 01, 2011, 06:51:35 pm
Oh my God... It's freakin cool! :D
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: guitarfan01 on March 01, 2011, 10:48:53 pm
Amazing.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: esarai on March 02, 2011, 01:02:26 am
Just a suggestion, the current iteration of the texture is pretty uniformly red.  It could use some nice black and gray and steel up in there.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: T-LoW on March 02, 2011, 01:50:28 am
Just a suggestion, the current iteration of the texture is pretty uniformly red.  It could use some nice black and gray and steel up in there.

I knew I wanted to say something constructive before I started drooling.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on March 02, 2011, 01:56:03 am
Just a suggestion, the current iteration of the texture is pretty uniformly red.  It could use some nice black and gray and steel up in there.

What he said, but don't reduce the red! I like the red. As someone said above, it makes it look like a cathedral of death, which is so insanely awesome.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Pred the Penguin on March 02, 2011, 04:22:33 am
Wow...
Damn are the FS2 campaign missions gonna be a lot more interesting to watch. o_o
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 02, 2011, 05:48:00 pm
No one asked you to offer anything anyways.

Yeah, otherwise it wouldn't be offered. :P It'd be requested.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 02, 2011, 11:35:55 pm
... But refusing something implies that something has been asked of you, so I see your  :P and raise you a nanny nanny boo boo.

And yeah, it's just a teaser. There are are many metallic looking parts in the texture, just hidden by the angle and the lighting of the scene.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 05, 2011, 09:46:17 pm
So I thought I would show everyone the current progress in motion. I narrated it to explain the directions I took with the Sath and what I like about it, and what I am working on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwtXzNTbSFI&hd=1

Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on March 05, 2011, 09:59:49 pm
I watched it. Looks awesome. Nice narration too. Very informative.  :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rodo on March 05, 2011, 10:04:10 pm
Yeah, pretty scary *****.

Also, new trenches to hide into!  ;7
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 05, 2011, 10:07:13 pm
The trenches are present in the retail Sath, but they are now made to be pretty.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on March 05, 2011, 10:46:28 pm
The gap on the top of the nose still bothers me immensely, but everything else is incredible.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: SypheDMar on March 06, 2011, 01:29:58 am
Lies! Your ramblings are interesting.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Pred the Penguin on March 06, 2011, 02:17:28 am
I can't even tell there's a gap...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on March 06, 2011, 02:18:18 am
My (personal) minor gripe is that the red circles on the texture feel kind of un-Shivan. Maybe it's just me, but I can't recall any Shivan vessel that has circles like that - it's all more angular, spiky.
But since so much of it is done already, and given that the rest of the model and texture is real class, I can live with it.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Snail on March 06, 2011, 05:12:53 am
Omgsh you are teh awesome
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Lucika on March 06, 2011, 05:15:20 am
Fantastic job :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: GT-Keravnos on March 06, 2011, 08:58:25 am
Thanks for working on this.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: castor on March 06, 2011, 10:16:46 am
My only complaint is that this looks fascinating, a characteristics the original sath doesn't have!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Sushi on March 06, 2011, 10:20:33 am
Wow. :eek:

I need an epic dogfight around the hull of that Sathanas. Immediately.

Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: rscaper1070 on March 06, 2011, 01:27:59 pm
Incredible, beautiful, frightening work. I can't wait to blow one up. :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: sigtau on March 06, 2011, 01:35:49 pm
The members of HLP have collectively jizzed in their pants.

Well done.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: esarai on March 06, 2011, 02:01:03 pm
This is a frakking masterpiece.  You've created such a legitimately awesome version of the Sathanas.  It has a new sense of scale the original could not provide, and looks 100X more dangerous. 

Massive kudos, Rga_Noris, you are a BAMF.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: General Battuta on March 06, 2011, 04:01:20 pm
Oh dude this is the coolest ****ing thing
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: starbug on March 06, 2011, 04:06:18 pm
HOLY S**T !!! I need to get a change of trousers!!! That is real work of beauty, i couldn't bring myself to see it destroyed as its so awesome looking.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Raiden on March 06, 2011, 09:55:32 pm
Another masterpiece from HLP! I just watched your video, honestly I really appreciate hearing about the creative process behind these things and I'd love to hear more of that stuff. I feel like you maybe thought the video was boring but I could listen to that stuff for a long time.

About the Sathanas itself, it's absolutely fantastic, and I have to say I really find your design to be quite disturbing looking. When you showed the front of the ship it really does look like an ugly, hateful thing. I particularly like the arms and of course the detail as you flew over the hull was just gorgeous. I think you captured and exceeded the original intent and atmosphere of the original.

Also was interesting to hear about the star-nuking animation being worked on. If the FS2 cutscenes are ever re-made that would presumably be very useful. Would love to see that last cutscene done with the upgraded models.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Droid803 on March 06, 2011, 10:29:55 pm
Sexcellent.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Belisarius on March 12, 2011, 12:12:30 pm
It looks pretty good, I love it even as it's not yet finished.

But you know what this...

(http://www.2x-pensive.de/beli/pics/sathsmile.jpg)

...reminds me of?

This!

(http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/np62480,1284065846,vendetta.jpg) :lol:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mars on March 12, 2011, 12:46:38 pm
THAT'S IT. . . THE SHIVANS ARE ANONYMOUS
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on March 12, 2011, 12:57:50 pm
Just to be sure, the Sathanas isn't actually going to be copper red, right? That's just the lighting?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 12, 2011, 01:54:37 pm
Kolgena, yes, that's lighting. It is a metallic dark gray.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: TomJeffersonJones on March 12, 2011, 02:54:23 pm
You took on the Sathanas and made it yours.  Diving under this thing is going straight to the top-shelf of my Fs2 memory banks.  I will ramble about it in the dementia ward 60 years hence. 
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Bobboau on March 13, 2011, 05:37:03 am
I don't suppose the armor plating on the arms could be made more jagged and irregular, could it?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Belisarius on March 15, 2011, 11:15:44 am
It's his way of smoothing up the old model. If you don't like it and think you could do better, please go ahead. The bigger the choice, the better for the community. :nod:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Lucika on March 15, 2011, 11:20:47 am
Two topics popped up in my new replies list:

The Other Sathanas
The Definitive Typhon

FIGHT!!!! :hammer:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 15, 2011, 11:43:10 am
@Bobboau:

I'm going to add some irregularity using the texture, but for the most part the mesh will remain as is.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mars on March 15, 2011, 12:47:16 pm
Two topics popped up in my new replies list:

The Other Sathanas
The Definitive Typhon

FIGHT!!!! :hammer:

*BFRed charge up sound 

I'm glad this is coming out in the same release as the Colossus; or High Noon would look very sad and one sided graphically. As it is, it will really feel like an epic battle between two Juggernauts and less like a couple of clumps of polygons beaming each other.

I honestly cannot wait to see this in game.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on March 21, 2011, 09:30:22 am
I watched your video, RgaNoris. Sweet, sweet stuff you have there.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 21, 2011, 03:00:09 pm
Fenris = Snack.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3949/sathshow06.th.png) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/sathshow06.png/)

That being said, I am taking a quick break from the rest of the texture to complete the turrets and begin in-game beta testing (internally with the FSU... sorry folks, not yet!), but it shouldn't be too much longer before it hits your HD.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mongoose on March 21, 2011, 03:12:43 pm
OMNOMNOM FENRIS

(That shot gives a fantastic sense of scale.)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Shivan Hunter on March 21, 2011, 03:54:41 pm
OMFG, that is epic.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Snail on March 21, 2011, 03:56:16 pm
That is utterly amazingness, you can really feel the size there!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: T-LoW on March 21, 2011, 03:58:40 pm
Will the glow be animated to go torwards the arms? Love that shiny metal texture (like the Cain and Lilith have, too)

I can see the love you spent on your model :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rodo on March 21, 2011, 03:59:30 pm
That is utterly amazingness, you can really feel the size there!

yes
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on March 21, 2011, 04:05:05 pm
Someone I showed this to said the glow seemed to be senselessly slapped together, I can kind of feel that same vibe, but with so much going on I can't really pick out specific spots. The black hull texturing on the other hand is superb, it looks the kind of "Death-Black ship" that Gamma 3-9 would describe had he said it in FS2.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: T-LoW on March 21, 2011, 04:06:51 pm
[...] I am taking a quick break from the rest of the texture [...]

I'm sure it isn't all finalized, yet. This man knows what he's doing - I mean look at that friggin' thing! It's so awesome!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 21, 2011, 04:15:10 pm
Someone I showed this to said the glow seemed to be senselessly slapped together, I can kind of feel that same vibe, but with so much going on I can't really pick out specific spots. The black hull texturing on the other hand is superb, it looks the kind of "Death-Black ship" that Gamma 3-9 would describe had he said it in FS2.

There are some issues with the glow map towards the front. If you notice the UV is not perfectly lined up near the arms, so it just drops off. Aside from that though, I am not sure what you mean. As for 'senselessly' I am not sure exactly what sense has been applied to other glow maps for Shivans. Can you provide an example of a glow map with more 'sense'? These glows match the metal texture underneath. The diffuse has specific parts to make it appear as though there is a mechanical/electrical feature creating it, which is somewhat lost in that screen due to the lighting.

And thanks for the polite feedback :)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on March 21, 2011, 04:28:18 pm
I'm looking at it again, and I think it's mostly the outside of the beam arms themselves that don't quite fit with the rest of the glowmapping. The glow inside the arms (From the exposed parts not covered by the hull plating), as well as that of the joints connecting the arms are rather quite good. I think maybe reducing the amount of glowing shapes on the outside of the hull plates would improve it, unfortunately I can't provide any visual examples.

I think in short, it currently seems to be too illuminated.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 21, 2011, 04:31:14 pm
Hrm... i'll play round with that when I get back to texturing and post some updates.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: mjn.mixael on March 21, 2011, 04:33:31 pm
The original has a good amount of glow on the arms too.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on March 21, 2011, 10:31:27 pm
Are we going to have any glow on the bundles of stuff under the upper "carapace"? It's looking mighty drag right about now :P (I understand that it's WIP)

I agree with everything Commander Zane said. Right now, it's looking a little too noisy on the spikes, and it's obscuring the model geometry.

The body though, man. Simply stellar. Just, stellar.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 21, 2011, 10:54:14 pm
The entire underside is completely untextured. Just a base for now.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Hades on March 21, 2011, 10:58:19 pm
The original has a good amount of glow on the arms too.
Of course, they just slapped a tile there, and due to the nature of tiles, even if they didn't want it like that they couldn't have done much about it.

Also, I agree with Junko's assessment of the arms, I think the armor plates as well as the stuff below it all having glows is a bit weird, I'd personally try taking the glows off of the armor plates and keeping it on the surface under them.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on March 21, 2011, 11:31:51 pm
Junko
Gah. :P
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 21, 2011, 11:40:31 pm
I think the armor on the arms will get a MAJOR glow-down. They will retain some glowy bits, but as subtle accents instead of a dominating theme.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on March 21, 2011, 11:43:34 pm
That sounds promising.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Hades on March 21, 2011, 11:54:58 pm
Junko
Gah. :P
:nervous:

Can't wait to see it, Rga.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on March 22, 2011, 12:00:42 am
Will wait on further progress.

(Don't go too overboard though, the spikes are still on average supposed to be redder than the body.)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on March 22, 2011, 12:08:24 am
I will go with what looks good over what looks retail. If retailish looks good, then so be it.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on March 22, 2011, 02:10:18 am
I actually liked the glowmaps on the arms, but I understand where others are coming from when they say it's a bit overdone. In the end, you're a fantastic texturer, and I'm sure you'll get it done superbly.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: wistler on March 22, 2011, 05:33:52 am
You've just replaced the whale in my nightmares!  :eek:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Ulala on March 22, 2011, 09:41:54 pm
This is simply fantastic. Can't wait to play through the campaign again with this bad boy. (and all the other latest models!) Much kudos, Rga! Also, feel free to make and upload videos any time. :)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 16, 2011, 05:02:28 pm
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/SathShow02-1.png)

Get ready to hit your burners, pilots.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Gloc on April 16, 2011, 05:18:50 pm
 :yes:

Time to go bearbaiting.  :D
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Dragon on April 16, 2011, 06:09:22 pm
Wow, it's amazing!
Can't wait for release.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Lucika on April 16, 2011, 06:16:17 pm
I'd put here a jawdropping smiley but that is not enough. ;)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: swamper123 on April 16, 2011, 08:58:37 pm
Maybe this is a dumb question , but this model is like the concept art one?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: General Battuta on April 16, 2011, 09:07:31 pm
God I'm so sorry, I really love almost everything about this model and all you've put into it, but I do just want to register some hopefully constructive criticism.

I feel like the red's been broken up too much. I worry it'll look noisy.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 16, 2011, 10:05:52 pm
Get ready to hit your burners, pilots.

I won't. It's so beautiful, I'd crash into it.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on April 16, 2011, 10:10:41 pm
I feel like the red's been broken up too much. I worry it'll look noisy.

The world is full of noise. The trick is hearing the rain.

And this is so many levels of awesome.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: starwolf1991 on April 16, 2011, 11:06:56 pm
Ooooooh man.........screw trying to fight this thing, I'm going to be running the other way. It looks that terrifying now!  :lol:

Fearsome looking model and beautiful textures = win. Congrats on this revamp of the Sathanas, RGA.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 16, 2011, 11:14:34 pm
That is amazing...

Spoiler:
back half reminds me of a marker from Dead Space, but doesn't mean it's any less awesome. It actually makes it even scarier, at least for me.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: bobbtmann on April 17, 2011, 12:06:16 am
God I'm so sorry, I really love almost everything about this model and all you've put into it, but I do just want to register some hopefully constructive criticism.

I feel like the red's been broken up too much. I worry it'll look noisy.

I agree. Your Sath has some nice shapes to it, and you spent a lot of time on the mesh. Having super high contrast between the glowy reds and the silver and the dark parts is breaking up the form too much. Think of how camouflage works. It makes it harder for your eyes to follow the lines, since they dragged around by the texture.

You could try reducing the strength of the red, and see if that helps.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: bobbtmann on April 17, 2011, 12:08:17 am
Alternately, you could try baking a glow map. It'd throw some of the red onto the hull, and help unify it.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Ulala on April 17, 2011, 01:39:41 am
Looks incredible. Much kudos for your hard work. I do agree it does look a little "noisy" in the screenshot, but if it's still like what you showed in your video, I think flying around it in game will look just fine. My one critique is on the last (furthest to the left/rear) uh... "rib" of the ship (directly above the bottom engines), for some reason the texture looks a little off to me, but I can't quite articulate why.. it almost looks as if the texture was stretched to fit the space or something.. sorry for being so vague. Again, in game it probably looks fine.

And again, superb work. :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on April 17, 2011, 02:09:23 am
Niiiiiiiice. Me likes.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 17, 2011, 03:35:55 am
Alternately, you could try baking a glow map. It'd throw some of the red onto the hull, and help unify it.

This would be quite badass, though at those scales, I'm not sure how far the light radius could realistically reach.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Tomo on April 17, 2011, 05:12:18 am
Alternately, you could try baking a glow map. It'd throw some of the red onto the hull, and help unify it.

This would be quite badass, though at those scales, I'm not sure how far the light radius could realistically reach.
Circular glows would look a bit odd, true.

However, spotlights 'picking out' important features can look *amazing* - that goes for all capships, not just the Sathanas.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 17, 2011, 10:29:19 am
Baking into the diffuse is a nono. Imagine how odd it would look if a SEXP to disable the glow map was used, yet area remained illuminated.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 17, 2011, 10:43:50 am
Whoever said anything about baking onto the diffuse?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 17, 2011, 10:58:51 am
Upon further review, no one. I thought it was implied... IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 17, 2011, 11:41:55 am
Softened up one of the glow maps to be a little smoother with the surrounding hull. The first glow map I made, the one that covers the trenches/shell area, I made using an old method I had. As I textured the Sath I improved this method, but never applied it to the old one. So I did, and I like the result.

(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/SathShow04-1.png)

Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rodo on April 17, 2011, 11:44:38 am
That looks better :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: General Battuta on April 17, 2011, 11:47:22 am
Definitely improved.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Dragon on April 17, 2011, 02:04:06 pm
Better indeed.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Jadehawk on April 17, 2011, 04:46:41 pm
oK....THIS is epic in my view and in my view I so wanna get in a Bomber and defang this awesome beast once again!
Great job!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 17, 2011, 05:15:58 pm
The sense of scale is remarkable. Next time I play bearbaiting, I think I will actually feel like I'm flying towards a space city.

Some red baked illumination into the glow map would look rad in those trenches, and the inner surfaces of the plates on the claws.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Ulala on April 17, 2011, 08:45:41 pm
Okay, no complaints here. Looks excellent.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: sigtau on April 17, 2011, 08:51:42 pm
It looks like a giant glowing insect.

A Shivan is a giant glowing insect.

I have absolutely no complaints.  Now let's see the new Colly and this ship duke it out. :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 17, 2011, 09:27:01 pm
... in spite of its 200K+ polies, it has been confirmed on several computers (from high to low end), that for whatever reason, you will see an increase... yes, and increase... in FPS over the retail Sathanas. One test mission had multiple Sath's visible. The nuSath saw a 5 fps increase.

EDIT: THat poly counts includes subobjs.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: sigtau on April 17, 2011, 09:56:51 pm
Optimized meshes ftw?

Am I seeing engine optimizations stemming from FSO taking shape?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Galemp on April 17, 2011, 10:02:32 pm
... in spite of its 200K+ polies, it has been confirmed on several computers (from high to low end), that for whatever reason, you will see an increase... yes, and increase... in FPS over the retail Sathanas. One test mission had multiple Sath's visible. The nuSath saw a 5 fps increase.

This is awesome. :yes: We need to spread this news far and wide.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rampage on April 17, 2011, 10:21:33 pm
Looks like a cathedral of death.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 17, 2011, 10:28:50 pm
This is awesome. :yes: We need to spread this news far and wide.

Facebook wall spammed (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=8990888471). :p
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 17, 2011, 10:34:05 pm
Hrm... so I need to update that claim a bit.

I tested it on a Dell Inspiron 1440:

Win7 64-bit
Intel Pentium T4400 / 2.2 GHz
4GB of RAM
Cruddy Intelgrated GPU 4 series.

Now, with one entire Sath visible on screen, retail actually outperforms:

Retail: 36fps average.
HTL: 22fps

Here's the magic: Up close, as in destroying turrets, flying over, or goofing off:

Retail: 40fps average
HTL: 56fps average.

With 12 Saths on screen:

Retail: 9fps Average
HTL: 13fps average

There you have it, folks. That is with 3 4096^2 textures, each with a glow and normal. Imagine the performance when I release a 'lite' version with 2048^2 textures. Excellent work and hats off to the optimizations the SCP team have integrated.

Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 17, 2011, 10:44:39 pm
Updated the wall too. :D
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Ypoknons on April 18, 2011, 09:05:23 am
If we were playing Mahjong, it'd pong it!

It is excellent, much-improved umm... not sure if the red lights are 100% awesome yet, kind of feel the size is too much or else they need some more definition... but it's good.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: perihelion on April 18, 2011, 09:31:30 am
That thing looks like it crawled straight out of my nightmares!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Sushi on April 18, 2011, 03:27:41 pm
Hrm... so I need to update that claim a bit.

I tested it on a Dell Inspiron 1440:

Win7 64-bit
Intel Pentium T4400 / 2.2 GHz
4GB of RAM
Cruddy Intelgrated GPU 4 series.

Now, with one entire Sath visible on screen, retail actually outperforms:

Retail: 36fps average.
HTL: 22fps

Here's the magic: Up close, as in destroying turrets, flying over, or goofing off:

Retail: 40fps average
HTL: 56fps average.

With 12 Saths on screen:

Retail: 9fps Average
HTL: 13fps average

There you have it, folks. That is with 3 4096^2 textures, each with a glow and normal. Imagine the performance when I release a 'lite' version with 2048^2 textures. Excellent work and hats off to the optimizations the SCP team have integrated.

Just curious, exactly what optimizations are you talking about? So everyone making high-poly models knows how it's done...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 18, 2011, 03:54:40 pm
mostly detail boxes and having more lower poly subobjects as opposed to fewer high poly subs. Also, no tile mapping.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 27, 2011, 01:52:58 am
Just a brief reminder on why we all love MjnMixael:

(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/SathPNG-1.jpg)

This is just a mock up he whipped up to make me (and now you) drool. I cannot wait to see it finished.

Also, I intend on releasing ASAP. It is pretty much ready, just some glow map tweaking and thruster stuff... then done!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on April 27, 2011, 02:07:14 am
HOLY--

Sorry, my computer crashed coz of the awesomeness.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 27, 2011, 02:41:26 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoPWALM2riQ
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: T-LoW on April 27, 2011, 02:55:21 am
Any chances to get the sun-burster as an ingame effect? :D

So so awesome!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: ssmit132 on April 27, 2011, 03:15:59 am
It's been done before (in fact, the ingame version is included in the original Inferno), but that was a long time ago so it doesn't look that great now.

But that shot looks so awesome!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: PsychoLandlord on April 27, 2011, 03:26:17 am
Holy Crap, thats beautiful.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: blowfish on April 27, 2011, 03:33:59 am
With a little bit of technological updating, the effect could probably look decent in-game.  The arms could be made to rotate relatively easily, and the effect itself could be accomplished with a new warp effect.  That last part might require a bit of coding though...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 27, 2011, 05:01:57 am
Need MOAR  :eek2:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Black Wolf on April 27, 2011, 05:31:33 am
****ing fantastic! :D
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Destiny on April 27, 2011, 07:58:25 am
Y'know suddenly I don't...really oppose the Shivans blowing up Capella anymore...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: peterv on April 27, 2011, 09:05:24 am
Just a brief reminder on why we all love MjnMixael:

(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af118/RgaNoris/SathPNG-1.jpg)

This is just a mock up he whipped up to make me (and now you) drool. I cannot wait to see it finished.

Also, I intend on releasing ASAP. It is pretty much ready, just some glow map tweaking and thruster stuff... then done!

We all  love you too Rga  :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Ulala on April 27, 2011, 08:50:11 pm
Truly impressive. :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on April 27, 2011, 10:34:44 pm
Y'know suddenly I don't...really oppose the Shivans blowing up Capella anymore...

I feel the same. And this is just a mock-up. Can't wait to see what the real version looks like.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: StargateSpankyHam on April 28, 2011, 04:17:22 pm
Oooooh, when will this be done?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: General Battuta on April 28, 2011, 04:19:53 pm
Oooooh, when will this be done?

3.6.14 MVPs
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on April 28, 2011, 05:38:51 pm
3.6.14 MVPs or 3.7.0, which ever version it is that gets released to coincide with an SCP Release as the FSU Team nears it's completion of Projects and Testing

There, I fixed that for you.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 28, 2011, 06:26:48 pm
... It will be included in those MVP's, yes. But it will be released much, much sooner.

On an unrelated note, I wonder what I will do tomorrow morning...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rampage on April 28, 2011, 07:48:31 pm
On an unrelated note, I wonder what I will do tomorrow morning...

Texture the Basilisk?  "hint" "hint"
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: mjn.mixael on April 28, 2011, 09:10:59 pm
I've been working on the Basilisk on and off already.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 29, 2011, 04:31:23 pm
TEMPORARILY REDACTED

Umm.... look!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COKBtTdTq2w&hd=1

***whistles***
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Shivan Hunter on April 29, 2011, 05:30:38 pm
it's ingame you're awesome I love you no homo
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: General Battuta on April 29, 2011, 05:37:31 pm
Yeah all my worries have been addressed, it's awesome.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: PsychoLandlord on April 29, 2011, 05:51:27 pm
Well, that was more terrifying than it ever was before...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Droid803 on April 29, 2011, 09:42:09 pm
My sole remaining worry is Bearbaiting and the fact that the original four turrets were wonky and had weird angles where you couldn't quite bomb them (more like they took severely reduced damage from the Helios). If this has changed in any way, the mission might be easier than its supposed to be (or, maybe it was just harder than it was supposed to be, who knows?)

I mean, I'd love it if the attack angles were more consistent, I'm just afraid it might break something, since the weirdness on the retail model was rather noticable, at least for me.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 29, 2011, 09:53:48 pm
Test after test, run after run, explosion after explosion, it takes me roughly the same amount of time to eliminate all four beams and the flaks. It is still hard.

The only difference is that the AI seems to attack the forward flak when ordered to, where in the retail version they would seem to ignore the command. And it has nothing to do with the flaks exposure; the AI used to not even attempt an attack. For whatever reason, they will attack it and are somewhat successful now. I have no desire to recreate an obvious bug, but even if I did, I have no idea why the AI used to ignore that specific command on the retail Sath.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 29, 2011, 10:41:43 pm
Do trebs still explode in front of the flak turrets instead of on them? I found forward flak to be nigh invincible because of weird bounding box issues. (This might be related to AI weirdness too)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 29, 2011, 11:21:23 pm
Quote from: Little Green Men
THE CLAAWWWW.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Droid803 on April 30, 2011, 12:32:01 am
Test after test, run after run, explosion after explosion, it takes me roughly the same amount of time to eliminate all four beams and the flaks. It is still hard.

The only difference is that the AI seems to attack the forward flak when ordered to, where in the retail version they would seem to ignore the command. And it has nothing to do with the flaks exposure; the AI used to not even attempt an attack. For whatever reason, they will attack it and are somewhat successful now. I have no desire to recreate an obvious bug, but even if I did, I have no idea why the AI used to ignore that specific command on the retail Sath.

:) :yes:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: jr2 on April 30, 2011, 08:20:06 am
Nice work.  :)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Destiny on April 30, 2011, 08:45:53 am
Why did you dive?! You...had to get...hit...







...especially by something so awesome.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 30, 2011, 11:04:42 am
Just an update:

The Sathanas is, by most accounts, ready for release. That being said, Zacam is going over some of the details to assure a successful release. My goal is to release today, as tomorrow I fly out to DC and will not have access to anything. It will also give you guys some time to pick it apart, as you all often do :)

Three versions will (likely) be released, however not necessarily all at once. They are:

Advanced: Uses 4096^2 textures.
Mid: Uses 2048^2 textures.
Low: Uses 1024^2 textures.

Zacam has been working on the low end versions, and I must say, the quality retention even at 1024^2 is incredible. Anyways, stay tuned, I hope to release soon.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: JCDNWarrior on April 30, 2011, 11:12:03 am
Awesome! I'm glad something releases relatively quickly after being shown ;) I'm still waiting for some finished models to be released (Probably will be 3.6.14 or 3.7, so that's a while away). Looking forward to play the game with such awesome Sathanas to oppose the Colossus.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 30, 2011, 01:18:23 pm
I would strongly encourage people to direct their attention to the first post... keep an eye on it.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Raiden on April 30, 2011, 01:54:48 pm
I would strongly encourage people to direct their attention to the first post... keep an eye on it.
Epic.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: sigtau on April 30, 2011, 02:29:50 pm
The moment that I nearly cried in FreeSpace 2.

I might re-live it.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 30, 2011, 05:54:31 pm
I would strongly recommend keeping an eye on the first post.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 30, 2011, 09:26:51 pm
Sathanas confirmed in system. Confrontation Imminent.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 30, 2011, 09:55:20 pm
Cool... drawn-out slide show.  What is it like 1 fph?  :lol:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on April 30, 2011, 10:04:45 pm

Yay. I'm going to let my PC rest for a while now. All that work for 3 unified sets of maps really stressed things a bit. (I didn't -have- to try to end up having them all open in Photoshop at the same time, but I did it anyway.)

Each size has been independently created at that size and natively saved only once to provide the best clarity. I was rather surprised that the 1024 size actually looks as good as it does. A credit to Rga's fine UV and Texturing skills, no less so for this being his first full on one from start to finish.

There are 3 sets to each map set for a total of 12 map files to the model. All of them were created in a unified fashion to be consistent with each other.
System tests still show and retain the gains in FPS when using this model (even with the 4096 maps, which are the original map sizes) over the Retail model.

While working on these, I made a discovery that I'd like to share with folks. Baked AO. It's lovely stuff. But I highly recommend that you have it available as a separate layer, and -only- apply it to your final output for the Diffuse map.

Do not apply it to the -Shine map at all.

This will help with creating a poor-mans "Self Shadowing" effect to a great degree (especially when combined with a -Normal map) as the additive nature of the -Shine map will mute out and overlay the AO on the Diffuse when the appropriate viewing angle is hit that will "wash" it out. This has been applied to great effect with the Sathanas maps and I'm busily recreating it on other maps at present. I'm even going to go so far as to insist that any future submissions to the FSU follow having the AO as a layer that can be separately applied.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 30, 2011, 10:12:01 pm

While working on these, I made a discovery that I'd like to share with folks. Baked AO. It's lovely stuff. But I highly recommend that you have it available as a separate layer, and -only- apply it to your final output for the Diffuse map.


Yes! Someone who agrees with me on this aspect of textures. Baked AO makes things look so much better. It should be on everything, even if it's just barely noticeable.

Where are the downloads?:)

(As a side note, those BFReds look awfully tiny)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on April 30, 2011, 10:24:46 pm

Actually, this may surprise you, but I don't actually care for static map-baked AO. But it's unavoidable and I can't convince people NOT to do it. That being the case, I decided to share a simple accidental discovery I made that removes a lot of my reservations about what I don't like about AO baking. Namely that, with the above technique, it's no longer as "static" and can provide some means of "faking" interaction.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 30, 2011, 10:50:10 pm
Wasn't it standard to only ever bake AO to diffuse and not specular?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on April 30, 2011, 10:56:37 pm

Not when people are making their -Shine maps by copying the Diffuse into a new image, and doing horrible things to it.
(I still see way too many "This is exactly like the Diffuse map, just now in Greyscale" for my comfort)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 30, 2011, 11:08:36 pm
Right.

More importantly, I was promised a DL today and I feel like being obnoxious about it.

(Jk, take your time)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 30, 2011, 11:15:14 pm
Right.

More importantly, I was promised a DL today and I feel like being obnoxious about it.

(Jk, take your time)

Well fine. Go check the first post. :)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on April 30, 2011, 11:22:25 pm
omgomgomg
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mort on April 30, 2011, 11:24:14 pm
Sweet!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on April 30, 2011, 11:44:21 pm
Downloading it in all its 4096^2 glory.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Aurora Paradox on April 30, 2011, 11:51:06 pm
Just finished downloading the 4096 ^2 version.   Was the inclusion of the settings.ini file intentional?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 30, 2011, 11:52:09 pm
oops... Big negatve.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Aurora Paradox on April 30, 2011, 11:53:59 pm
oops... Big negatve.

Thankfully a right click and delete will take care of that.  The model itself is a fine piece of work.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on April 30, 2011, 11:59:14 pm
Just played Into the Lion's Den. Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Raiden on May 01, 2011, 06:28:11 am
Just downloaded, the model looks awesome. Is there any (simple) way to get the model in Blue Planet AoA? By editing the mod.ini or anything? I really wanna see A Time for Heroes. That mission's like a showpiece for the Sathanas anyway.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: The E on May 01, 2011, 06:33:01 am
You have to modify the Saths' ships.tbl entry so that it points to this model. Simply create a file named sath-shp.tbm, paste the following text into it:
Code: [Select]
#Ship Classes

$Name: SJ Sathanas
+nocreate
$POF file:              Sathanas.pof

#End

You should place this file into mediavps_3612/data/tables, just as the model should go into mediavps_3612/data/models and the textures into mediavps_3612/data/maps
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Raiden on May 01, 2011, 06:43:40 am
Thanks, The E.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on May 01, 2011, 07:15:20 am
that may not work. NuSath as anmation code on some of it's turrets that the old sath did not, and it's in the table.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: The E on May 01, 2011, 07:20:01 am
It will work as a replacement for the old Sath, given that turret names and weapon placements didn't change.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on May 01, 2011, 08:14:58 am
NuSath turrets are all in the same spot, but the forward flak uses animation code for limiting it's turning. I think he shhhould just be able to copy te .tbm from te SathMod dir and have it be okay.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Raiden on May 01, 2011, 09:29:14 am
You know what, don't worry about it, I'll just sit tight and wait for the mvps like everyone else (I'm not really fond of messing with the tbms. and stuff as I am a n00b). Thanks for the help though.

I've just had a good look round in the model in Their Finest Hour and High Noon, but I think the best mission to show it off is Bearbaiting. You get a lot of dogfighting around it so you can see how pathetically tiny the fighters are. When you're flying through those trenches you are just a bug to be swatted. Really glad the Sathanas has been brought into 2011. It's an iconic vessel.

EDIT: I just realised, is that the new Collossus in the first post? Damn, that looks sleek. Me wants.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: SypheDMar on May 02, 2011, 09:44:00 am
This is probably just because it's  test model, but the LOD3 for the 2048 one doesn't exist. Awesome work!
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on May 02, 2011, 04:18:09 pm
it never existed in retail, either, but I suppose there is no reason it shouldn't.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Dragon on May 02, 2011, 04:49:58 pm
IIRC, if a LOD exisit in a model but not in table, debug will complain.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: The E on May 02, 2011, 04:54:00 pm
But if neither the new one nor the original had it, there is no cause for complaints. And honestly, the Sath doesn't really need that low a LOD, given the way it is used in missions.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on May 02, 2011, 06:44:50 pm
Um, I think the Sathanas works fine in BP if the .vp is in the mediavps folder. I would check for sure if I could remember what mission it is found in though; I merely looked at the f3 ship lab, and the new version was there.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Raiden on May 02, 2011, 07:04:08 pm
Well I've embarrased myself.

EDIT: Thanks Kolgena, A Time for Heroes is even more awesome.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on May 02, 2011, 07:23:27 pm
Haha, no worries. Just glad to help.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Droid803 on May 02, 2011, 08:31:18 pm
But if neither the new one nor the original had it, there is no cause for complaints. And honestly, the Sath doesn't really need that low a LOD, given the way it is used in missions.
Yep. There's the SJD Sathanas for that. :P
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mongoose on May 03, 2011, 01:29:53 am
Where's our HTL model of that, anyway? :p
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: ssmit132 on May 03, 2011, 04:21:40 am
minicap.pof :p
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: TrashMan on May 17, 2011, 10:24:35 am
too much red glow everywhere.....
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on May 17, 2011, 12:02:18 pm
You probably should have said that sometime prior to 2 weeks after the final release :P
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Commander Zane on May 17, 2011, 04:36:59 pm
Been brought up, I even mentioned it, it was addressed. Even so the end result looks better than I originally thought.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: CommanderDJ on May 17, 2011, 07:05:27 pm
For me, red glow is like dakka.







Spoiler:
NEVER ENUF
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kolgena on May 17, 2011, 08:32:59 pm
I think the red glow looks fine. Remember, this thing is the size of a mountain. If it had few, large, glows, the glow spots would have to be massive and look strange.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: TrashMan on May 18, 2011, 03:22:18 am
You probably should have said that sometime prior to 2 weeks after the final release :P

I'm kinda late to the party. I've been mostly lurking latetly, visting far less often than I used to..so..yeah.
I missed it.

Quote
I think the red glow looks fine. Remember, this thing is the size of a mountain. If it had few, large, glows, the glow spots would have to be massive and look strange.

I just don't particualary like how it turned out. Looks..uninspired. There seems to be no rhime or reason to how the glows and places and their shape.
Granted, whne it comes to shivan textures, people usually can't come with anything more than "black panneling...with red dots". It feels overused.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on May 18, 2011, 02:28:41 pm
Trashman, can you point to an example of where the red glows are put to better use? Also keep in mind I am recreating the Sathanas, and take note of its glow map patterns.

Also, I am open to changing things, but please make statements that are concrete and specific.

Quote
"Looks..uninspired. There seems to be no rhime or reason to how the glows and places and their shape. "

This is pretty baseless. Look at the retail Sathanas. Can you please describe the reasoning behind its red glows? Why are they shaped the way they are? At least mine are coming from designated places and textured in fixtures. V has increased glows towards the front, underside, and trenches. So does mine. I don't doubt that it isn't perfect, but please be helpful. That statement just makes you look like someone who says something purely to "hear their own voice", or otherwise feel important.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Mongoose on May 18, 2011, 09:42:54 pm
That statement just makes you look like someone who says something purely to "hear their own voice", or otherwise feel important.
Welcome to the world of TrashMan commentary. :p
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: TrashMan on May 19, 2011, 05:06:52 am
Trashman, can you point to an example of where the red glows are put to better use? Also keep in mind I am recreating the Sathanas, and take note of its glow map patterns.

I don't recall such glow patterns on the orginal.
It's hard to be spcific without going over it in detail, something I cannot do know since I'm at work and don have FS installed.



Quote
Quote
"Looks..uninspired. There seems to be no rhime or reason to how the glows and places and their shape. "

This is pretty baseless. Look at the retail Sathanas. Can you please describe the reasoning behind its red glows? Why are they shaped the way they are? At least mine are coming from designated places and textured in fixtures. V has increased glows towards the front, underside, and trenches. So does mine. I don't doubt that it isn't perfect, but please be helpful. That statement just makes you look like someone who says something purely to "hear their own voice", or otherwise feel important.

Not baseless, but just my oppinion.
Not every post in the unvierse has to be perfect or super-constructive either. If that was teh criteria for posting, the internets would implode.

But to make this simple and avoid draggin this further -  it's a nice model, but it just doesn't do it for me.

B.t.w. - Your statmenet makes YOU look like someone who can't take anything that's not praise. At least when people criticize my stuff, my first reponse isn't to question their character.


Welcome to the world of TrashMan commentary. :p

f*** you. :ick:
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on May 19, 2011, 07:51:39 am

On that note, let's call a break while everybody takes a breather.

Trashman: It would be helpful if you can look at Retail and MediaVP editions compared to this one and see if there is anything more you can come up with.
Take your time, but only if you want to.

While the glow shapes are different, there doesn't seem to be a real rhyme or reason to the disparity in the Shivan glows, there are a few granted conventions.
Rga choose to make ones that seemed to him to fit the space that was created when detailing the carapace and other sections. As with any artistic work, the artist opinion and the opinion of others is often going to differ.

But that it's over-used or uninspired when it's the nature of the species is a bit of a slap in the face, as there is not much canonically that can be done about it. I could say the Vasudan love of BROWN in their textures is uninspired, doesn't change anything.

I'm interested to hear what you have to say if you feel like taking the time to compare Retail/Current/New and go from there. Otherwise, it's what we have, it's been a lot of effort, and I hope you'll still enjoy and appreciate the effort and detail.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: TrashMan on May 19, 2011, 09:20:46 am
Of course I appreciate the effort and detail.

But ya know...tastes...
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on May 19, 2011, 11:22:54 am
 :banghead: I never said it was perfect, or that I would not make changes based on your feedback... in fact, I said precisely the opposite.

What I did ask you to do is back  up what you said. You said there is no rhyme or reason to the placement of the glows, yet you will not provide an example of any such characteristics in other Shivan vessels, largely because as of now, you are at work. What still continues to bother me is that you now admit you do not recall what the Sath's original glow patterns are like, yet you persist it is uninspired?

Your logic does not follow: You say uninspired, I say it is inspired by the retail Sathanas, which you say you have insufficient knowlege of, yet you maintain its uninspired. The fact is that I WANT to improve the Sathanas glow map, I really do. So when I see a comment that states "no rhyme or reason" and "uninspired" I go looking for the source of critique to fix it. With yours, the source is elusive to me, so I asked you to explain (and yeah, I insulted you in the process... but come on, it was a very uninspired critique you gave), which you are currently unable to do.

This leads to believe it is a comment for comments sake, rather than anything concrete.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: General Battuta on May 19, 2011, 11:25:17 am
Look, you're dealing with TrashMan, just let it go.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Zacam on May 19, 2011, 11:35:15 am
Battuta: Incitement commentary, not helpful.

Mongoose: Same for you as well.

Let's just try and keep this going in a more civil direction while we can, please.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: General Battuta on May 19, 2011, 11:37:37 am
Correct advice, definitely helpful.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Sololop on May 19, 2011, 11:48:01 am
I think a video showing the arms/spines on the back animating would be really cool, if they can do that yet.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Snail on May 19, 2011, 02:10:35 pm
Yeah that would be "really cool."
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: TrashMan on May 20, 2011, 04:40:49 am
What I did ask you to do is back  up what you said. You said there is no rhyme or reason to the placement of the glows, yet you will not provide an example of any such characteristics in other Shivan vessels, largely because as of now, you are at work. What still continues to bother me is that you now admit you do not recall what the Sath's original glow patterns are like, yet you persist it is uninspired?

Correction. I never said I do not recall the original sathanas patterns.

If it really means that much to you, I can try to put a more detailed anlysis on paper, but why you care so much about my oppinion it's beyond me. I'm just one guy, and it seems the vast majority of people here (if not everyone else) have no problems with it. Hence, it shouldn't really be an issue. ;)
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Raiden on May 20, 2011, 12:15:48 pm
Hey, sometimes something just doesn't 'work' for some people, and there's not much more to it than that. Most of the people here love it and that's about the most you could hope for.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: bobbtmann on May 20, 2011, 03:57:18 pm
I wouldn't say TrashMan's critique was without merit. I think what he's saying is that the red glows don't really reflect what is happening with the model. They form a pattern on the surface and break up the form underneath. The effect is in a way similar to camouflage. So instead of emphasizing crevasses and the shapes of the model, they obscure and hide them. They flatten out the model. With a mesh as detailed as yours you want to show off all the work.

Consider it a postmortem. Instead of going back into the Sath, TrashMan's critique could be considered for future models. When you make your Rakshasa you could consider how the textures affect the model. You could darken low areas, and bring out high areas with lighter colours. The glowy red bits could serve to describe elements on the ship.

Glowing Red is like a person shouting and waving their hands. It draws attention, and if you use it sparingly it maximizes it's effect. If there's a person shouting something different on every street corner it loses its effect. But if there's only one person shouting then you notice the car wreck next to him.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Rga_Noris on May 20, 2011, 11:57:52 pm
I understand what you are saying, but that is not what he said, it's what you said...

And Raiden, I am more then grateful for what people have said, but asking Trashman to clarify why he made the claims he did is not exactly out of the realm of reason. Maybe the statement of what I suspected his motives for saying them was, but let's face it: I was not alone in that conclusion.

Not sure why I bother repeating myself, but here goes: I never said it was without merit... I said the precise opposite. What I did say was that the particular word choice/description did not depict anything... He made claims of no rhyme or reason, but yet could not provide any reason for any Shivan glow map on any model.

The issue I have is that, even if I do what you say and apply it to the next model, there is nothing to apply, because he could not be more specific... Because his commentary was more to serve himself then anything else.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kiloku on September 06, 2013, 03:57:10 pm
I think there is a bug with this model. In the mission Bearbaiting, you are supposed to destroy the Forward Flak Cannons as a secondary objective, and the best way to do that would be using Trebuchet Torpedos. The problem is that the impact is not recognized, the Cannons stay at 100% despite being frontally hit by two Trebuchets at the same time. The only way to actually damage it is from behind the cannons, so you have to fly colliding to the Sathanas while your missile locks.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Scourge of Ages on September 06, 2013, 05:34:41 pm
I think there is a bug with this model. In the mission Bearbaiting, you are supposed to destroy the Forward Flak Cannons as a secondary objective, and the best way to do that would be using Trebuchet Torpedos. The problem is that the impact is not recognized, the Cannons stay at 100% despite being frontally hit by two Trebuchets at the same time. The only way to actually damage it is from behind the cannons, so you have to fly colliding to the Sathanas while your missile locks.

Even the original Sathanas model had an issue there: the barrels of the flak cannons would block the trebuchets, but not contribute toward damage of the turret. You would have to fire trebs at an angle (usually from slightly below the barrels) to score a hit on the turret itself. Are you sure that's not the same problem here?
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Kiloku on September 06, 2013, 06:25:51 pm
Might be. It's been a looong time since I played the campaign and I didn't remember encountering that problem, so I assumed it was the new model.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: SypheDMar on September 06, 2013, 08:35:54 pm
I hated Bearbaiting because of the Trebuchet issue, and the Helios doesn't do full damage at some angles either. It turned a somewhat simple mission into a more frantic hope-you-angled-it-right-and-hope-it-blows-up headache.
Title: Re: The Other Sathanas
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on September 06, 2013, 09:24:19 pm
Head-on apply directly to the foreheadapproach seems to give the best probability of dual Helios doing maximum damage, whereas firing them from a pursuing angle seems to do only half damage.