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So, I was going to do a long preview post with David Gaider's trenchant remarks and a summary of what we know, but I'll cut to the chase:
It looks bad. Possibly really bad.
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Considering what I thought of DAO, I'm not terribly surprised.
So can we get a link to trenchant remarks or something instead?
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This is my favorite thread on SA right now. (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3335887&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=328#post388141183)
Just be aware that Snakes and Cakes is a decent stealthtroll, he acts super enthusiastic about the game but is really in the DtB camp.
Good David Gaider quotes earlier in the thread.
ahaha ogod
"We had a simple design principle: when you press a button, something awesome has to happen."
"Think like a general, fight like a Spartan"
DtB
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Bioware are developing different combat systems for the 360/PS3 and the PC. It's not perfectly clear in how far the combat will actually differ between the versions, mostly because we haven't seen a single PC presentation yet.
Uhhhh...okay. I'm not sure what this means. They later apparently refuted it, but...
And here's the catch: Someone else is actually making it up. The main characters of Dragon Age 2 are actually Cassandra and Varric, two people ten years down the line from the first game, that have to save a world on the brink of war not by fighting their own battles, but by finding out just what Hawke's been up to since Dragon Age: Origins. In other words, the game is told in flashback, by a not-always reliable third party.
Goddamn it, Bioware! You're literally just going to go throw up your hands and scream "**** it!"?
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Hey Alpha Protocol used a framed narrative and had a good story (maybe the best story in terms of actual responsiveness to your decisions.)
There's no more tactical view on the PC; you can still zoom out but not quite as far. In a triumph of PR they explained this at one point as an art decision; they didn't want to 'waste all that effort on ceiling textures PC players wouldn't see.'
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Hey Alpha Protocol used a framed narrative and had a good story (maybe the best story in terms of actual responsiveness to your decisions.)
Whenever someone gives themselves a free pass to ignore continuity or other elements of good storytelling, the odds they will use it grow exponentially. It's not the framed narrative that worries me. It's the emphasis on "sure this might not make sense but we gave ourselves an out".
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Yeah, they've already done that a bunch. Plus some really roundabout answers to questions like "How does Varric know what Hawke was doing at [x time when Hawke was alone/in private with someone else?]"
"Oh well Varric has an extensive spy network"
love scenes are gonna be more awkward than ever :blah:
Man where the **** did our hot thread go, I had that thing way up in the top ten all time on HLP for post and view count :(
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Yeah, I watched the 55 mins live footage and I'm inches away from cancelling a pre-order made before their hype machine began to kill it for me. I'm waiting to give the demo a try, and if I don't like it I will get rid of my purchase.
It's like the ME1 -> ME2 transition but bad, because at least some positives came out of the aforesaid transition. This one just looks BAD
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Yeah, it looks hilariously awful. If I didn't know any better I'd think it was a parody of BioWare games. It was the Giant Bomb quicklook that made me lose hope: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-road-show-dragon-age-ii/17-3772/
Even the UI looks ****. That was the one thing about DA:O that was actually good.
Goddamn it, Bioware! You're literally just going to go throw up your hands and scream "**** it!"?
Ordinarily I wouldn't agree with you because I'm a big fan of unreliable narrators, but this being the same studio that couldn't even pull off a decent LotR-wannabe I'd be surprised if they didn't just use the device to cheat. DA:O had so many situations that could've been really interesting in good hands, but the writing staff fumbled it every time.
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hahaha oh god the short stories bioware nooooo
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hahaha oh god the short stories bioware nooooo
i knooooooooooooow
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I'm not usually in the habit of :bump: ing things or jumping in midstream, but the demo for DA2 just came out on Steam. (You can get it off Bioware's site too.) I grabbed and played it...and was promptly unimpressed. While DA:O required some thought and careful planning before jumping into a fight, DA2 just seems cut down and way oversimplified. The whole combat system just seems to be run up to a group of enemies and start hitting quickslot abilities as fast as you can. To boot, the animation for characters isn't all that great either. I've got a pretty powerful system (i7-920, GTX285, 6GB RAM) and it just seems like everyone's being jerked around like marionettes. The UI is truly awful too. It's so minimalist as to be ridiculous and the ability icons just look ugly and don't fit well with the rest of the game. Even the main character's voice doesn't seem right. I picked a male warrior and he just sounds like he's a snotty nobleman, not a villager fleeing a disaster. The greatest irony? One of the first things the game tells you is that the "inventory will be unavailable for the demo." Not a good sign, considering that you can loot axes, armor, etc. off of bodies. About the only good thing I can say is the branching skill system looks like it'll work better than the old, linear system.
I actually got a good amount of enjoyment out of DA:O and dropped in a couple of mods. I even had DA2 on my wishlist. It's gone now. I just hope Bioware doesn't screw up this badly on ME3.
Has anyone else had a chance to play the demo? What do you think?
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I played it, it's awful. There are literally load times between individual lines in a conversation (probably unoptimized ****ty demo code) the writing is awful (probably gonna stay that way) and Isabela doesn't wear pants.
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so it's a faithful sequel is what you are saying
Is Isabela supposed to be the same person who taught you the Duelist specialisation in Origins? Because that's hilarious.
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I watched some gameplay, and it did look pretty bad. Part of why DAO was so good was because there was lots of complexity in the game system. A lot of that got lost when they tried to make it into ME2.
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I liked the demo enough that I'm no longer nervous about my pre-order. Normal is the new easy, though, so if you're looking for anything resembling a challenge upping the difficulty is going to be necessary.
Is Isabela supposed to be the same person who taught you the Duelist specialisation in Origins? Because that's hilarious.
Yes
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Random demo thoughts:
- People behind unskippable logos should be shot tortured.
- A "press any key" screen does not belong in a PC game.
- Fallout Brown is still ugly.
- Why are there so many loading jitters?
- Why doesn't escape go back into the game from the menu?
- Why can only one ability tree be viewed at a time? There's a lot of wasted space there.
- At least the gui isn't as terrible as mass effect 2.
- Looking forward to the next dialogue system based only on choice of facial expression.
- Bring back the loading lifts!
- Flemeth seems to have had a mid-life crisis between games.
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I am not impressed by he demo..Oversized-weapon, super-fast, over the top combat.... Feel like I'm playing a JRPG!
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I died twice at that second troll. Very annoying.
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Just played the demo. It's not as bad as you lot make it sound. I like the faster paced combat because traditionally combat in RPG's is dull and boring, this is a step in right direction to make combat a bit more interesting as it plays a large role in these games. I like that mages basic attack is more useful than spitting and yelling bad words, which is how it usually goes.
The demo doesn't really tell me much about writing, but it didn't seem particularly bad. I think DA2 is going to be good enough to buy it, from what I can tell from the demo anyway.
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Looks like another game that fails to impress, not only because of the extreme limitations of consoles? Or is that just me..
Nonetheless, a shame. I dont think the game was ready to ship, they just rushed it out. Could've known with the extremely early pre-order deals.
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Wait, I do have a major complaint: why the goddamn ****ing hell do the three different styles of dialogue (benevolent, jocular, austere, let's say) sound like three entirely different people? You can't switch between styles in a conversation without sounding like a lunatic.
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Wait, I do have a major complaint: why the goddamn ****ing hell do the three different styles of dialogue (benevolent, jocular, austere, let's say) sound like three entirely different people? You can't switch between styles in a conversation without sounding like a lunatic.
Doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that they gave us icons that indicate whether a line of text is good, bad, or neutral. This saves us from the tiresome task of actually reading and comprehending what the lines of text mean ourselves. I have an idea for Dragon Age 3 though: go the next step and cut out dialogue completely! This revolutionary new conversation system would consist entirely of 3 emoticons. So you could go to a character and just say :lol: , :mad2: , or :blah:
Because people don't want to read today. They want an accomplishment medal for scanning 5 asteroids, reloading their gun, using a health pack, or using the toilet successfully.
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When your character is voice acted, it's awkward to read the whole line and then listen to the character speak the damn thing again.
The whole appeal of the Mass Effect conversation system, though, was the fact that you were surprised by some of the actions Shepard took, even though you could generally predict the tone. It made for an interesting story. Dragon Age 2 just takes it and sends it through to the extreme. At least in ME your tone doesn't flipflop too much because of the paragon-renegade system.
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This revolutionary new conversation system would consist entirely of 3 emoticons. So you could go to a character and just say :lol: , :mad2: , or :blah:
Because people don't want to read today. They want an accomplishment medal for scanning 5 asteroids, reloading their gun, using a health pack, or using the toilet successfully.
Thats not revolutionary, Fable has been using that conversation system for three games now :P
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not only because of the extreme limitations of consoles? Or is that just me..
That's just you.
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The more I look at the demo the more I'm dissapointed.
Frak it...I still want to see where the story goes.
I'm not buying it. I'll just buy used or borrow it.
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I'm not buying it. I'll just buy used or borrow it.
Might be a tad more complex since you apparently need to have an EA account and login to it in order to play the game.
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When has that ever stopped anyone (with internet access) from "borrowing" a game?
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"Borrowing" and borrowing are different things, the former is illegal. The latter depends on EULA which cannot be enforced by law anyway as far as I am aware. Which in turn means in conversation the latter is assumed when talking as such.
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You sure that is not just for the special content? I know they took that route with Mass Effect 2. Some quite fun but unnecesary stuff for people who activate their game, but no restrictions to the full game if you do not have internet acces, borrowed it, bought it second hand, etc.
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Dragon Age 2 Physical & Digital PC/Mac DRM are as follows:
No disc check, you do not need the disc in drive to play.
No limit on the total number of PCs you can install the game on.
There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can play the game within a time window (if online) [5 PCs in 24hrs].
After each new install there is a 1-time online check needed the next time you play, requiring a log in to your EA account to verify game ownership. If you are a member of these forums, you already have an EA account – just use the same email/password.
You can play offline thereafter - the game will NOT require any subsequent login checks. If online, a game ownership check happens each time you play.
Steam versions use Steam DRM, no other DRM is added, which means:
No disc check, it is used for digital game versions purchased from Steam only.
No limit to the total number of PCs you can install the game on.
There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can play the game at any one time (if online) [1 PC].
Each install requires logging into your Steam account to verify game ownership.
You can play offline thereafter. If online, a game ownership check happens each time you play.
Steam pre-loads use Steam release control – you will not be able to play until the release day/time has passed for that region.
Dragon Age 2 Release Control (non-Steam versions)
Does not use securom.
It does not install anything to the PC.
Sole purpose is to check with a server to validate whether the game release date has passed or not.
It completely removes itself after the game release date has passed.
You will not be able to play until that date has passed.
Dates & times are set to the retail street date per country.
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That looks pretty reasonable unless I'm missing something.
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That does look pretty reasonable to me too, which is going to lead me to one of my stranger statements: IMHO, the best thing about DA2 seems to be the DRM.
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well I pre-ordered the Signiture Edition of DA2, DA1 was really good for my tastes after playing it for like 1 year and 7 months doing every single mission and DLC that came out for it, just loved the entire plot and layout of the game so thereby I went and Pre-rded the sequel because I just want more and more of it heh!
Just hpoing the game play will be like DA1 or better, a first person mode would be very welcome though, so it's more like Fallout3 or Fallout New Vegas, these two are great too btw :D
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That looks pretty reasonable unless I'm missing something.
You aren't. The only real negative I can spot is that it trips up lending and used game sales.
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well I pre-ordered the Signiture Edition of DA2, DA1 was really good for my tastes after playing it for like 1 year and 7 months doing every single mission and DLC that came out for it, just loved the entire plot and layout of the game so thereby I went and Pre-rded the sequel because I just want more and more of it heh!
Just hpoing the game play will be like DA1 or better, a first person mode would be very welcome though, so it's more like Fallout3 or Fallout New Vegas, these two are great too btw :D
I have bad news.
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well I pre-ordered the Signiture Edition of DA2, DA1 was really good for my tastes after playing it for like 1 year and 7 months doing every single mission and DLC that came out for it, just loved the entire plot and layout of the game so thereby I went and Pre-rded the sequel because I just want more and more of it heh!
Just hpoing the game play will be like DA1 or better, a first person mode would be very welcome though, so it's more like Fallout3 or Fallout New Vegas, these two are great too btw :D
I have bad news.
I'm afraid we do.
Save your money, buy The Witcher 2 instead
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I can third the bad news, even though I do have the Collectors Edition coming in.
I'm a sucker, I'll admit it. But I can practically guarantee you that I won't be opening the box or playing it.
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I feel a bit awkward about this as my opinion differs massively but..
I did actually enjoy the game play. It felt a lot more fast-paced and a lot of the "finishing moves" felt brilliantly potent as opposed to DA1 where it does feel a bit more clunky and slow.
That said, if I'm honest, I didn't get a chance to play far into the Demo as any of the three classes so perhaps I'd have run into more limitations further down the line.
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well I pre-ordered the Signiture Edition of DA2, DA1 was really good for my tastes after playing it for like 1 year and 7 months doing every single mission and DLC that came out for it, just loved the entire plot and layout of the game so thereby I went and Pre-rded the sequel because I just want more and more of it heh!
Just hpoing the game play will be like DA1 or better, a first person mode would be very welcome though, so it's more like Fallout3 or Fallout New Vegas, these two are great too btw :D
I'd think a first person mode would ruin the entire premise of the game as an 'Baldur's Gate Sucessor'. Just like the 3D fallouts have completely different gameplay as opposed to their older brethren.
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I'm not buying it. I'll just buy used or borrow it.
Might be a tad more complex since you apparently need to have an EA account and login to it in order to play the game.
I can just one a friends account.
Or cracks.
I use no-CD ones all the time.
EDIT: No cd-check? Well that's new.
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I'm shocked, nay, horrified, that we haven't had one of these yet.
Or did we put everyone off with our thread about it before release?
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You mean this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=74564.0) one?
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I just figured the pre-release thread would continue to house discussion for the release.
I mean, we don't need two, do we?
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Still, nobody's talking about it.
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I'm not playing this game until it's like $20, it looks awful.
I can't believe they accidentally shipped the game without autoattack on consoles. I can't believe there are exploits everywhere to get infinite gold and XP! Oh wait I can believe that.
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I can't believe there are exploits everywhere to get infinite gold and XP! Oh wait I can believe that.
I can't believe anyone seriously cares about this in a single-player game.
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Well, I've bought it. Signature Edition, no less. My verdict, after ~6 hours of play? It's intriguing. Not a masterpiece, in the same way DA:O or Mass Effect 1 and 2 were, but definitely worth a play.
Right, that's the TL;DR version. More thoughts to follow now:
1. The ridiculous
Well, so I bought this game, right? I pop the disc in the drive, let it install, and start it up. But nooooo, I cannot play it yet, because us filthy european types are only allowed to play it starting March 10th. What a load of crap.
Well, a few hours' waiting took care of that, but nonetheless. Why allow retailers to sell it, and players to install it, but then require an activation check (which runs with admin rights, no less) to check the release date? Makes no sense to me.
While I was waiting, I decided to download the OST (one of the Signature Edition goodies). A minor WTF here is that the only download option they give is a zip archive with the soundtrack in .wav format, clocking in at a massive 725 MB. Would it really have been that hard to put up .oggs or .mp3s?
While on the subject of Signature Edition goodies, as a proud owner of DA:O Ultimate, I got a few rather game-breaking items for free; among them a bow with ~60 DPS (available when the average weapon clocks in at <10 DPS), and a staff that deals a massive 400+ ice damage (which is a glitch, surely).
2. The game so far
Well.
As I said, it's intriguing. And it's definitely fun enough for me to continue playing, but the story has a few problems. For one, the Prologue/Act 1 break is accompanied by a one-year timeskip, during which neither my main character (female Rogue) nor my sister apparently earned any experience. Which, considering I spent that year as part of a mercenary gang, is sort of strange. Related to that, I keep running into people (shopkeepers, mostly), who my character seems to know and care about, but which I, of course, have no relationship with. It's a bit jarring, to be honest.
The second problem is that so far, no overarching plot has materialized. Where DA:O had a clear goal, and a clear antagonist for you to defeat, my current goal in DA2 is to get a job. Which, as far as motivations go, is certainly enough to get Joe average going in the morning, but is sort of not very epic, if you know what I mean. Yes, there certainly are signs of something brewing in the distance; but honestly? If a hero's worth is measured by his or her opponents, then Hawke is worth about 50 Sovereigns, at this point.
Now, in terms of technical stuff, the game looks pretty good to me. The slight tweaks to the art style BioWare made are definitely working for me, and I like the looks of it. Kirkwall is a pretty enough town to wander around in, at least for now. In terms of gameplay, I guess you could say it's something of the same process that gave us the gameplay changes from Mass Effect 1 to Mass Effect 2. I know there'll be someone out there screaming "Dey made it easier for those console-playing peasants," but I, for one, couldn't care less. It's fun, and that's all that matters to me.
More stuff to follow when I feel like it.
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If a hero's worth is measured by his or her opponents, then Hawke is worth about 50 Sovereigns, at this point.
Worth 50 Sovereigns?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEc1OTFaWnI) Better have her as a party member in ME3
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I can't believe there are exploits everywhere to get infinite gold and XP! Oh wait I can believe that.
I can't believe anyone seriously cares about this in a single-player game.
The fact that you could get them accidentally is what bugs me.
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If a hero's worth is measured by his or her opponents, then Hawke is worth about 50 Sovereigns, at this point.
Worth 50 Sovereigns?! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEc1OTFaWnI) Better have her as a party member in ME3
We all know that the Darkspawn are really Husks and that the "Black City" is actually a Reaper.
*ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF YOUR MAGES*
*WE KNOW THIS HURTS YOU HAWKE*
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Holy Crap:
(http://i.imgur.com/QHMDI.jpg)
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Well. Not that I was intending to, but I guess I'm never posting on a forum run by EA or any of its subsidiaries.
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How can a company be so ****ing stupid?
Three outcomes:
1. (Intended, although incredibly unlikely) Person will repurchase the game.
2. (Accepted possibility, and likely) Person will never buy or play EA games again, or at least for the next decade.
3. (Unintended, though most likely) Person will pirate all future EA games they wish to play.
In any case, for EA, this decision is stupid. Stupid. STUPID.
STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID.
Stupid.
Dumb asses.
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You guys might get a kick out of this --
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dragon-age-ii
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/dragon-age-ii
Check the review scores, then compare that to the user score. At times like this, I understand why people can call conspiracy when dedicated reviewers miss the mark so much.
Anyway, enough about the possibly-mistaken community reaction -- The game looks boring so far. I saw my brother play the first one, and the thing that sprung out at me was that the animations are crap in the new one. That's my initial impression anyway. Putting the game on "Very High", it becomes unplayable, and borderline-playable on "high". I'm gonna wait for a few months for the patches to come out, along with new graphics drivers(and I'm already using the latest beta ones that came out for this game).
I noticed how Dragon Age Origins started -- Very slowly, teaching you how to do things. Here, you're just thrown directly into the action and I can see why. It's a hack 'n slash game.
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Check the review scores, then compare that to the user score. At times like this, I understand why people can call conspiracy when dedicated reviewers miss the mark so much.
I call the low user score a conspiracy. The guys doing the reviews are mostly the guys who volenteered to do so, which is why they might be more positve then the average gamer. This time, however, the average gamer seems to be in the "THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS" league without having actually played the game, basing stuff entirely on the trailers. Just like some of those ARMA dudes which call OpFlash Red River another call of duty based entirely on the trailers, even though those trailers lack any insurmountable obstackles that makes the CoD series so special...
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"THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS" league without having actually played the game, basing stuff entirely on the trailers.
Just like several distinguished members of the community. Particularly certain B-man. In any case, my copy of DA2 should arrive in mail today.
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"THEY CHANGED IT NOW IT SUCKS" league without having actually played the game, basing stuff entirely on the trailers.
Just like several distinguished members of the community. Particularly certain B-man. In any case, my copy of DA2 should arrive in mail today.
Uh I did play it (the demo), it was ****ing terrible.
And never post on the Bioware Social forums, they're one of the most terrifying places on the Internet.
EDIT:
Dragon Age was an epic role-playing game. Sequels to those kind of things normally take years to be released (just ask Elder Scrolls fans!). So why did Dragon Age II come out less than 18 months after Dragon Age?
The game's composer, Inon Zur, may have an answer for you. "Unlike other titles from Bioware, this [score] was kind of a rush job", he tells IGN. "EA really wanted to capitalize on the success of Origins, so the game was really being pushed hard to be released now."
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But I didn't see you posting a 0 rating on Metacritic. I just can't imagine that so shortly after release people suddenly all organize and spam everything with how much they hate the game after having played it.
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No, I wouldn't post a review until having played it.
However, all signs point to this game being a rushed hack job on Bioware's part. Constantly reused assets, that **** ending
, the out-and-out lies about their design methodology, the quote from the composer I posted above - these things don't bode well.
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Huh, here's something new. Take it with a grain of salt for now, but the source seems reliable...
EA Fails to Disclose Securom DRM In Dragon Age 2
Those of you who know me, know that I love Dragon Age: Origins and the Dragon Age universe. You also know that I loathe DRM, especially SecuRom. You can imagine how dismayed I was when I read a Reclaim Your Game report today revealing that despite not disclosing the fact anywhere on the game packing or even in the 28-page EULA, disc-based copies of Dragon Age II contain the destructive, intrusive DRM known as SecuRom.
While Reclaim Your Game, which acts as a gamer’s consumers’ rights advocacy group campaigning against oppressive DRM had praised EA for excluding SecuROM from Dragon Age: Origins, recent testing of the sequel compelled the site to give it an “Unacceptable” rating due to the inclusion of DRM and, most importantly, EA’s failure to disclose it anywhere to consumers.
In a recent email sent to their subscribers, representatives from RYG wrote:
“We have CONFIRMED from testing that it DOES contain SecuROM, and that it DOES leave files behind. We can also confirm that nowhere on the package, in the EULA or on the Website for the game is thee ANY mention of the inclusion of SecuROM. EA had been ordered by the courts to disclose the use of SecuROM on any game that uses it. And it is contradictory of what Bioware has been saying for the last 3 weeks.”
In their report, RYG cites multiple areas of concern, including:
* Inconsistent information about DRM
* No EULA for SecuROM
* SecuROM files hidden from user
* SecuROM files not removed after online activation
* DRM removal tool not included; SecuROM remains even after user uninstalls game
And these are just some of the concerns noted in their report, which you can read in full as a pdf, here, or read their more detailed analysis (with screenshots), here.
Even though EA and Bioware had explicitly stated before the fact that SecuROM would not be included in the non-steam versions of Dragon Age II, and simply be there to verify the game wasn’t played ahead of release day (and would not install anything on your computer), RYG’s tests show otherwise.
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I'm 2/3rds trough the game (and get this, I got it from a friend, who just told me to keep it and his account. He thinks it's that bad).
Honest oppinion?
It's not that bad. As an console action game it's OK.
As a PC RPG? Mediocre.
So the 1 scores on Metacritic are definately too harsh.
I'd give it a 6 out of 10.
Decent story, good characters, delivery and gamplay suck. UI is horrible.
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I think I'll just torrent this and say that I'm playing a visual novel when anyone asks about it.
That's all this game is, a visual novel. That's the only logical explanation, right?
Right?
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Errr.
No.
It really isn't.
Visual novel, to me, means a locked-down experience, JRPG-style. Dragon Age 2 is anything but, since it gives you a lot of choices how the story proceeds.
Also? You are now the owner of an official warning. We really do not recommend that people incriminate themselves here.
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Been playing DA2 last six hours. It is quite enjoyable, not a bad game at all. Different from DA:O sure, but not bad.
If you have a video card with 1GB VRAM or more, get the hi-res textures pack.
http://social.bioware.com/page/da2-patches
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Been playing DA2 last six hours. It is quite enjoyable, not a bad game at all. Different from DA:O sure, but not bad.
If you have a video card with 1GB VRAM or more, get the hi-res textures pack.
http://social.bioware.com/page/da2-patches
How are the spiders
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Huh, here's something new. Take it with a grain of salt for now, but the source seems reliable...
Sorry, but there is some confusion on this. We use Sony Release Control which shares some functionality with other Sony products (SecuROM), but once the Sony Release Control check is passed, Release Control self-destructs, removing the Release Control wrapper and it is never used again. Game updates will not use Release Control because obviously the release date is passed.
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That is good to hear.
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Errr.
No.
It really isn't.
Visual novel, to me, means a locked-down experience, JRPG-style. Dragon Age 2 is anything but, since it gives you a lot of choices how the story proceeds.
Also? You are now the owner of an official warning. We really do not recommend that people incriminate themselves here.
I never said I actually would/have torrent(ed) it, rather than I was thinking about it. Besides, even if I buy it, I'd eventually end up torrenting it to get rid of potential DRM.
Also, some visual novels have multiple paths and story arcs, some even with integrated and important gameplay segments (Sengoku Rance for an entertaining example), which sometimes are completely different than the others. Considering that DA2 has a forgettable gameplay experience, the only reason to buy it is for the story.
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The thing that worries me more is that apparently a user who got banned from the Bioware forums for 72 hours also got his ability to register his new game removed for the same amount of times. Apparently, according to a post by a Bioware mod, EA bans can not only effect your Forum access, but can also deny you the right to play or register any of their games whilst it is in force. The Mod also suggested they use it as an added incentive to 'obey the rules' of the Forum....
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/11/forumite-gets-dragon-age-2-ban-after-asking-bioware-if-they-had-sold-their-souls-to-the-ea-devil/
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Wow, well here’s a crazy update. After being repeatedly told that he was intentionally locked out of his EA games because he broke the rules on the BioWare forum, and that this was in accordance to the Terms Of Service that he’d agreed to, this morning’s internet famous man, Arno, has just been told that it was in fact a mistake.
He received an email from EA’s Senior Director of Customer Support, Boyd Beasley, explaining that his “inappropriate language” meant he had received a 72 hour ban from the BioWare Social Network, but that,
“Unfortunately, there was an error in the system that accidentally suspended your entire EA account. Immediately upon learning of the glitch, we have restored the entire account and apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused while accessing other areas of the EA service.”
Unconvinced I believe them, but bureaucratic **** ups aren't exactly unknown.
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They realized that they went overboard and, in a poor attempt to save face, rescinded their ban.
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And never post on the Bioware Social forums, they're one of the most terrifying places on the Internet.
but don't you want to know what tali's sweat smells like
The second problem is that so far, no overarching plot has materialized. Where DA:O had a clear goal, and a clear antagonist for you to defeat, my current goal in DA2 is to get a job. Which, as far as motivations go, is certainly enough to get Joe average going in the morning, but is sort of not very epic, if you know what I mean. Yes, there certainly are signs of something brewing in the distance; but honestly? If a hero's worth is measured by his or her opponents, then Hawke is worth about 50 Sovereigns, at this point.
I'm at about the same point you are. To be honest I'm enjoying the modest practicalities of DA2's early chapters more than I did any of Origins' grandness, which just struck me as epic for epic's sake - I was never given any reason to invest emotionally in all that Blight nonsense so my City Elf's origin story ended up being more compelling than absolutely anything that happened later.
Plenty of room yet for BioWare to BioWare it up, though.
I'm pretty sure this will cost me some credibility but so far I think I like this. I'm not sure that it's good, but I like it. The gameplay's shallow, most of the dialogue is on the same technical level as a high schooler's fantasy dabblings, it's clearly been rushed, but it's fiddling with some fun narrative ideas and I, well, I like Hawke. I like that a protagonist in a fantasy RPG actually feels grounded in the world. There's also a nice emotional drive to the writing that Origins lacked, which at least partially makes up for its fumbling execution and teenaged preoccupations.
(I'm also finding the simplified gameplay more fun please don't hurt me)
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hrmph
maybe when it's on steam sale
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I'm at about the same point you are. To be honest I'm enjoying the modest practicalities of DA2's early chapters more than I did any of Origins' grandness, which just struck me as epic for epic's sake - I was never given any reason to invest emotionally in all that Blight nonsense so my City Elf's origin story ended up being more compelling than absolutely anything that happened later.
Plenty of room yet for BioWare to BioWare it up, though.
Now that I am a bit farther in, and have acclimatized to DA2's story, I do like it as well. It's just totally different from what was expected.
I'm pretty sure this will cost me some credibility but so far I think I like this. I'm not sure that it's good, but I like it. The gameplay's shallow, most of the dialogue is on the same technical level as a high schooler's fantasy dabblings, it's clearly been rushed, but it's fiddling with some fun narrative ideas and I, well, I like Hawke. I like that a protagonist in a fantasy RPG actually feels grounded in the world. There's also a nice emotional drive to the writing that Origins lacked, which at least partially makes up for its fumbling execution and teenaged preoccupations.
(I'm also finding the simplified gameplay more fun please don't hurt me)
Agreed on all points.
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(I'm also finding the simplified gameplay more fun please don't hurt me)
White Wolf.
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ngtm-1r have i ever told you that you can be quite mysterious
Now that I am a bit farther in, and have acclimatized to DA2's story, I do like it as well. It's just totally different from what was expected.
It's definitely not the sort of story I would've expected from BioWare, no. I mean that in a good way, but still - it feels almost like a Euro RPG impression of a BioWare game. Very odd.
Actually, if I imagine the dialogue is just the result of a janky translation that almost works.
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Latest polls on Bioware forums and user reviews on the internet show just how utterly polarized this is.
Compared to polls from Origins (after it's release), DA2 is doing FAR worse.
Here's my longer review of it:
Where to even begin?
Now, to start off, DA2 is a decent game. But that's just it – barely decent. Nothing more. So let me comment on the good and bad things. I'll try to keep this short, so I'm brining up the most importnat stuff only.
Another note - atmosphere is utterly important for me.
BAD:
- Animations for the player are way faster than for the enemies. If the enemies attacked as fast then the player would be dead before he could react. But since they are so slow, the only way to offer a challenge is to have enemies with mountains of HP's or throw hordes of lesser ones at the player. A completely flawed approach. It's a party based game, so slow combat served a purpose - give the player time to react to what's going on the battlefield, while keeping enemies dangerous. Fast-pace and party combat don’t mix well.
- the whole enemy leveling and difficulty system. It just feel lifeless and artificial. AND THE DAMN ENEMY
WAVES. Worst thing added. EVER. It's just utterly boring and ridiculous. Hawke killed more enemies in just the first chapter than the Warden did in whole of DA:O. It just feels like padding that doubles the length of fights.
- oversized weapons.
They look horrible. Some weapons cannot even be held by characters, since the handle is thicker than their arms! And the design of some is downright silly.
- Multiple lore defilments.
EXAMPLE: We know from DA:O that when a mage enters the fade physicly, death in the fade is fatal. Then the Keeper tells us that killing in the fade makes one effectively tranquil. And yet if you kill a companion in the fade, they are perfectly fine after that.
- low weapon/item selection early in the game. I had to play the entire first part with a maul (and I hate mauls) because there wasn't a better weapon available. Weapon scaling doesn't work well.
- Inventory icons suck. I'm sorry, but that's the truth. They are all the same! Humans are visual creatures. It's faster to ID something by the icon than to read the items name. There's a reason why people loved the icon mod for DA:O
- no equipping party members. I understand limiting the equipment to what would realyl be usefull (like only medium/heavy armor on your warrior), but removing it completely????
- the skill tree is a hit-and-miss. Half of the upgrades shouldn't even be upgrades, but should come standard.
EXAMPLE: Why does one have to upgrade Mighty Blow to give extra damage to brittle enemies? It's a full-force swing with a giant metal object - exactly how do you "upgrade" that? Exactly why doesn't it do extra damage to brittle things to beign with?
- the whole attribute and item restriction system. Constantly dumping attribute points for insignificant gains is boring. And escalating attribute requirements for items suck. I yearn to make a strong character to start with…but that is impossible in this game.
- the game makes it hard to play a templar-supporter, as it pits you constantly against them. I'm not talking about side-quests either. The main quest forces you to kill templars (Anders quest), and with the game making demons and abominations into wusses (and thus not a credible threat), and templars into incompetents (given that you can have a party full of mages blasting away in front of templars and they can't figure you out) - it's no wonder people don't like em!
- repeats and re-uses of entire areas. Generally bland and lifeless outside areas.
- conversation wheel. It's badly implemented. The intention icons are good, but the short snippets still give the wrong impression..an you still have only 3 responses. Always only the same 3 responses! That is unacceptable.
-Removal of synergies between same classes (like mage-mage). Oh, I have nothing against inter-class combos, but why can’t two fighters have a combo too?
GOOD:
- companions having homes and the life of their own.
- passage of time. Too bad Kirkwall changes too little visually over the years.
- having a family is cool. Story-wise, it's like playing a more fleshed-out Origin story from DA:O.
- some witty banter.
LONG STORY SHORT:
Interesting setting, interesting premise, good writing - gameplay and delivery are mediocre.
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I'm enjoying the game so far but I do have one gripe that seems to have carried over from DAO. That is the damn camera getting stuck looking top down at the selected character with the only way of fixing is to save and restart the game. It's really annoying only being able to see up to a couple of feet around your character, would it have been so hard to add a camera reset button or something to fix glitches like this.
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I think Bioware should have spent extra six months working on DA2. There's definitely a lot of potential in there, but it just seems rushed. Doesn't mean DA2 is bad, but it's definitely mediocre. Some things are better than in DA:O, some worse, but total sum of everything is less than DA:O in my opinion. I think we all would expect better from Bioware, I don't think involvement with EA has been so rosy.
I'm still enjoying my first playthrough though, but I doubt I'll be playing again anytime soon. Then again, I only finished DA:O once and I still don't want to play it again. Same can be said for ME1 and ME2, so...
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Yeah, it definitely feels half-cooked. They've actually done well for a year and a half, but there's a lot of opportunities they clearly planned to explore but just didn't have the time.
Suddenly I'm concerned about ME3's 2011 release date.
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As am I but there is some hope. I'm pretty sure work began on ME3 just as they finished up ME2 , at that point bioware already knew there would be a ME3 where as they didn't know just how successful DAO would be and whether or not a sequel would be in the franchise's future.
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That's still under two years, which is not a long time in game development.
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I wonder how much of this we can blame on TOR. Are they under significantly financial pressure as a result of that development?
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I wonder what Bioware is going to look like after TOR inevitably crashes and burns and loses EA umpity million dollars.
Suddenly I'm concerned about ME3's 2011 release date.
Different teams. The Effect folks put out their first game in 11/07 and its sequel in 1/09. The third installment will be out Q4/11, which seems about the same development time as 2 got. A bit less, but not much less.
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If that was the case it'd be fine, but ME2 was released in January 2010.
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....
I hate you.
Or myself. I think it's myself. Excuse me while I go cry myself to sleep.
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I got the signature editon for PC yesterday, from Amazon for £24.99 and i have to day for that price, its a good game and i am really enjoying it! i played it for 8 hours and loved it so far. Yes i do agree the endless waves of enemies gets a bit repetitive and the inventory isn't as good as the first on. Apart from that though i really like it, well apart from the giant spiders with the PC visual upgrade set, (I'm Arachnophobia and they send shivers down me :( )
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Apparently you can increase a character's armor infinitely by switching between two shields in the inventory screen :blah:
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If that was the case it'd be fine, but ME2 was released in January 2010.
So ME2 had 26 months to be made and ME3 (December 2011) will have had 21 months. It's not that bad.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw
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So ME2 had 26 months to be made and ME3 (December 2011) will have had 21 months. It's not that bad.
The longer the better as far as I'm concerned, but I suppose not. They did mention things would be simpler since they wouldn't need to worry about remembering decisions.
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I hope so...I was overjoyed when DX:HR was delayed because those extra months often mean the difference between a good game and a great one.
EDIT: unless you're alpha protocol in which case they make the difference between a buggy great game and a buggy great game that shouldn't have been buggy
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I hope so...I was overjoyed when DX:HR was delayed because those extra months often mean the difference between a good game and a great one.
Yeah most of the previews have left me anticipating a great game in the making so any delays spent spit shining it is time well spent as far as I'm concerned.
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The longer the better as far as I'm concerned, but I suppose not. They did mention things would be simpler since they wouldn't need to worry about remembering decisions.
Wut?
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The longer the better as far as I'm concerned, but I suppose not. They did mention things would be simpler since they wouldn't need to worry about remembering decisions.
Wut?
Mass Effect 3 concludes the trilogy, so there's no need to worry about carrying decisions over to ME4.
I am hearing rumblings that there have been significant changes made to the plot in the novels which may bode ill for ME3, though.
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Apparently you can increase a character's armor infinitely by switching between two shields in the inventory screen :blah:
Are you trolling? It's a game, games have bugs and most will be fixed in due time. It's like you're purposefully trying to diminish DA2 and find faults so that you can justify saying it's really bad and skip getting it.
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Mass Effect 3 concludes the trilogy, so there's no need to worry about carrying decisions over to ME4.
I see, I thought he was referring to ME3 not using ME2 saves or some such thing, which made me raise an eyebrow. And also feel dumb now. I'll go cry myself to sleep again.
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Apparently you can increase a character's armor infinitely by switching between two shields in the inventory screen :blah:
Are you trolling? It's a game, games have bugs and most will be fixed in due time. It's like you're purposefully trying to diminish DA2 and find faults so that you can justify saying it's really bad and skip getting it.
Good point, Fury, gameplay-breaking bugs that you could easily trigger while performing ordinary actions are never a sign of a rushed or low-quality project by a troubled studio. FreeSpace 2 would still be a great game if you made yourself invulnerable by switching between secondary banks too many times.
Where are my $60, you've convinced me to buy it right now! :rolleyes:
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I've been playing this game for four days now and I have yet to notice anything game breaking. I wouldn't even know of this bug if you hadn't mentioned it. It's not a major bug, moderate at best. These things slip past easily especially when they're introduced late in development. This isn't even only bug I've seen, but none of these have been major issues.
My point in previous post still stands. It's obvious you don't like the game based on the demo and what you've read, we get it.
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Errr.
No.
It really isn't.
Visual novel, to me, means a locked-down experience, JRPG-style. Dragon Age 2 is anything but, since it gives you a lot of choices how the story proceeds.
Also? You are now the owner of an official warning. We really do not recommend that people incriminate themselves here.
I don't know how many visual novels you've played, but they tend to have quite a few choices (and in the more complex ones, interconnecting webs of choices) that lead to different routes and endings. Good or Bad. (Gonna use Fate/Stay Night as an example here. 3 Core routes, one has a single good ending, the other two have two "good endings", but there are 40 odd "bad" endings throughout based on your choices. Some of which are endings in their own right.)
So, DA2 sounds like a VN without the static background imagery and with more gameplay between Story Road Cones. And, given what I've heard about some of the choices, more rail-roading than some. Oh, and a far worse story/execution than a Good VN.
And before Fury accuses me of not having played it, I own the PC signature edition, and am dipping into it when not doing coursework.
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Ah, ok. Seems my interpretation of what the term "visual novel" means was wrong. Thanks for the clarification.
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Ah, ok. Seems my interpretation of what the term "visual novel" means was wrong. Thanks for the clarification.
There are a few which are pretty much books without any player interaction, don't get me wrong (And something like Umineko No Naku Koro Ni would come under this heading). But the vast majority do have player involvement through significant (or sometimes insignificant) choices made by the character. Putting them somewhere under Choose Your Own Adventures, so a form of RPG-lite.
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And before Fury accuses me of not having played it, I own the PC signature edition, and am dipping into it when not doing coursework.
Why would I? However you interpret a visual novel or whether DA2 is such is irrelevant to how good or bad the game is. I only snapped at Battuta because of his tendency of exaggerating problems to make his own opinion stronger. Or that's how I saw it anyway. Regardless, time to drop that subject already.
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RockPaperShotgun does Dragon Age 2 (Spoilaz-ish) (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/14/wit-the-opening-hours-of-dragon-age-ii/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RockPaperShotgun+%28Rock%2C+Paper%2C+Shotgun%29)
My views on DA2 summed up so far. Very disappointing.
For those sitting on the fence: wait for The Witcher 2
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And before Fury accuses me of not having played it, I own the PC signature edition, and am dipping into it when not doing coursework.
Why would I? However you interpret a visual novel or whether DA2 is such is irrelevant to how good or bad the game is. I only snapped at Battuta because of his tendency of exaggerating problems to make his own opinion stronger. Or that's how I saw it anyway. Regardless, time to drop that subject already.
Yeah, that description of a bug that users have encountered in the course of normal gameplay, breaking their game by rendering their characters invulnerable, is really exaggerated.
Speaking of exaggerating and bull****ting to make your opinion stronger, it turns out a number of perfect-10 Metacritic user reviews dismissing criticism of the game and declaring it a 'true epic' were from accounts created that day by Bioware employees.
Stay classy, Bioware.
jesus christ dtb
(In the meantime you can get some good schadenfreude reading the game's lead designer performing desperate damage control; props to Eurogamer for coming out and asking why it wasn't as good as DA:O). (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-10-biowares-mike-laidlaw-a-defence-of-dragon-age-ii-interview)
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And before Fury accuses me of not having played it, I own the PC signature edition, and am dipping into it when not doing coursework.
Why would I? However you interpret a visual novel or whether DA2 is such is irrelevant to how good or bad the game is. I only snapped at Battuta because of his tendency of exaggerating problems to make his own opinion stronger. Or that's how I saw it anyway. Regardless, time to drop that subject already.
Yeah, that description of a bug that users have encountered in the course of normal gameplay, breaking their game by rendering their characters invulnerable, is really exaggerated.
Speaking of exaggerating and bull****ting to make your opinion stronger, it turns out a number of perfect-10 Metacritic user reviews dismissing criticism of the game and declaring it a 'true epic' were from accounts created that day by Bioware employees.
Stay classy, Bioware.
jesus christ dtb
(In the meantime you can get some good schadenfreude reading the game's lead designer performing desperate damage control; props to Eurogamer for coming out and asking why it wasn't as good as DA:O).
(http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-10-biowares-mike-laidlaw-a-defence-of-dragon-age-ii-interview)
Put me firmly in the "Should've been more like DA:O" camp. I loved for the dialogue to actually be meaningful and complex, and gladly sacrificed player voice acting for that. I preferred it that way. It's nice to have nuanced responses to dialogue beyond "Nice", "Funny Jerk", and "Jerkass", which half of the time do not say what you thought they were going to say.
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Well, having now reached the beginning of Act 3, I suppose I should post a few more thoughts.
1.The annoying
--Repetitive environments (There's an achievement called "Spelunker". It's unlocked by visiting 10 caves. I still wonder why I have gotten it, since I only visited 2 caves. Over and over again.)
--Enemy waves. Which remind me of the worst FS2 missions with endlessly respawning waves. Now, it wouldn't be too bad if the game did a better job of hiding the spawning, but alas, these people seem to have developed a remarkable aptitude for hiding in plain ****ing sight and plopping into view when they see their mate getting slaughtered.
2. The Good
As the RPS article demonstrates, DA2 has a rather slow, disjointed start. It takes a while for you to get used to the main character, and the story doesn't provide much in terms of antagonists that could act as foils for Hawke.
However, once you leave Act 1 behind and get into Act 2, the story does pick up the pace rather nicely. Conflict seeds that were sown in Act 1 grow more noticeable, with the story constantly throwing choices your way that determine the way things are going to go.
So yeah. After a bad start, the game improves quite nicely.
Yeah, that description of a bug that users have encountered in the course of normal gameplay, breaking their game by rendering their characters invulnerable, is really exaggerated.
Oh my god. A game has a bug that can be exploited. Surely this has never happened before.
Oh, wait, yes it has. I really do not know what you are trying to say here. The bug itself is a rather minor affair (insofar as it hasn't affected me yet), and likely the result of the overall rather shoddy QA run EA seems to have done on this one. It's not a big gamebreaker. Seriously. How many big RPGs are there that have shipped without exploitable bugs?
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Oh my god. A game has a bug that can be exploited. Surely this has never happened before.
Oh, wait, yes it has. I really do not know what you are trying to say here. The bug itself is a rather minor affair (insofar as it hasn't affected me yet), and likely the result of the overall rather shoddy QA run EA seems to have done on this one. It's not a big gamebreaker. Seriously. How many big RPGs are there that have shipped without exploitable bugs?
That's not what I said at all. A bug that can be exploited isn't a big deal. A bug that unintentionally causes your characters to gain armor as a result of an utterly ordinary gameplay action, switching out items, is a very different matter. It is a big gamebreaker because it broke the game for the players that encountered it. They had to stop using the affected characters in their parties.
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Why would you stop using an invulnerable player? :nervous:
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Why would you stop using an invulnerable player? :nervous:
Given what Battuta said, it would appear that it may have broken the game at some point.
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Oh my god. A game has a bug that can be exploited. Surely this has never happened before.
Oh, wait, yes it has. I really do not know what you are trying to say here. The bug itself is a rather minor affair (insofar as it hasn't affected me yet), and likely the result of the overall rather shoddy QA run EA seems to have done on this one. It's not a big gamebreaker. Seriously. How many big RPGs are there that have shipped without exploitable bugs?
That's not what I said at all. A bug that can be exploited isn't a big deal. A bug that unintentionally causes your characters to gain armor as a result of an utterly ordinary gameplay action, switching out items, is a very different matter. It is a big gamebreaker because it broke the game for the players that encountered it. They had to stop using the affected characters in their parties.
To be fair, the exact same bug existed in Awakenings, though you had to do something specific to glitch your character like that. Furthermore, every time you used a tome of re-specialization, you automatically gained something like 2 attribute points. Weird things also happened if you imported characters with shields on. The stats on those shields would get permanently added to your character. There were also pretty big graphical bugs with the Warden's Keep DLC + Awakenings.
Then again, Awakenings wasn't great itself, but bugs don't make/break a game. Origins had its fair share of dialogue bugs and decisions making no sense. (Leliana's love triggers are mostly broken)
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Why would you stop using an invulnerable player? :nervous:
Given what Battuta said, it would appear that it may have broken the game at some point.
Only in the sense of the game being stupid if your character takes like 1 damage every hit. I won't argue it past that.
Kolgena: don't get me wrong, DA:O was buggy as **** and still has a horrible memory leak.
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For what it's worth, I haven't encountered a bug yet.
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Why would you stop using an invulnerable player? :nervous:
Given what Battuta said, it would appear that it may have broken the game at some point.
Only in the sense of the game being stupid if your character takes like 1 damage every hit. I won't argue it past that.
The same reason Fallout 3 was more fun when you had to run like a screaming little girl from Rad Scorpions for lack of ammo for your POS excuse for a sidearm than when you had some much XP and gear you could one shot Death Claws.
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Holy ****, are you StarSlay3r by any chance? The really hot pro-gamer?
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Well, it looks like Starslayer has a fan. Just remember if someone asks if you're a god say YES.
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dont cross the streams
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I will say this, I really like the way your decisions about what Hawke says impact Hawke's personality in non-interactive dialogue. I love the idea of companions visiting each other, and I love the apparent reported amount of banter. Hope all that's in ME3.
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Well, having now reached the beginning of Act 3, I suppose I should post a few more thoughts.
1.The annoying
--Repetitive environments (There's an achievement called "Spelunker". It's unlocked by visiting 10 caves. I still wonder why I have gotten it, since I only visited 2 caves. Over and over again.)
--Enemy waves. Which remind me of the worst FS2 missions with endlessly respawning waves. Now, it wouldn't be too bad if the game did a better job of hiding the spawning, but alas, these people seem to have developed a remarkable aptitude for hiding in plain ****ing sight and plopping into view when they see their mate getting slaughtered.
2. The Good
As the RPS article demonstrates, DA2 has a rather slow, disjointed start. It takes a while for you to get used to the main character, and the story doesn't provide much in terms of antagonists that could act as foils for Hawke.
However, once you leave Act 1 behind and get into Act 2, the story does pick up the pace rather nicely. Conflict seeds that were sown in Act 1 grow more noticeable, with the story constantly throwing choices your way that determine the way things are going to go.
So yeah. After a bad start, the game improves quite nicely.
Yeah, that description of a bug that users have encountered in the course of normal gameplay, breaking their game by rendering their characters invulnerable, is really exaggerated.
Oh my god. A game has a bug that can be exploited. Surely this has never happened before.
Oh, wait, yes it has. I really do not know what you are trying to say here. The bug itself is a rather minor affair (insofar as it hasn't affected me yet), and likely the result of the overall rather shoddy QA run EA seems to have done on this one. It's not a big gamebreaker. Seriously. How many big RPGs are there that have shipped without exploitable bugs?
Finally a sensible post. I agree with all those points. Good god they overuse environments like caves to the point of it becoming ridiculous. It doesn't help at all that you're stuck in Kirkwall and the surrounding areas for majority of the game, so environment repetition becomes unbearing.
The enemy waves? Christ. That's poor gameplay design if anything and really annoying. Particularly when you really don't know how strong those hostiles really are. Some can be brutally blasted to pits with as much as sneezing in their general direction, but some are really tough. For most parts fights have been easy though. Every time there's some kind of boss monster or whatever, there's also some kind of "environment exploit" to kill it without much hassle. Or so I thought, still stuck in this High Dragon encounter.
For all its bad points, I think the game's still mostly fun to play. For now anyway.
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I will say this, I really like the way your decisions about what Hawke says impact Hawke's personality in non-interactive dialogue. I love the idea of companions visiting each other, and I love the apparent reported amount of banter. Hope all that's in ME3.
Hawke in general is the one element of the game I enjoy unreservedly. The character's a welcome change from the flaccid roleplaying in Origins.
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This just in - BioWare employees caught posting perfect reviews on Metacritic!
Bioware/EA asking fans to post good reviews and spam posts about ME3 on facebook and twitter.
Dear lord! How the mighty have fallen!
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Source?
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Based on this imagery:
http://i.imgur.com/BEZOe.png
At the moment, I consider it 'suspicious' but not 'damning' without a bit more testable evidence.
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Aparently, he's not the only employee who did that. Now, it could be some trolling, but I doubt it.
Seems EA is desperately trying to do some damage control.
Not just that but think about this. Bioware was getting absolutely DEMOLISHED from alll of the different scandals on both Facebook and Twitter.
So they come out with a ME2 DLC screen and say if you want to see more screens fans have to spam post about ME2 on Facebook and Twitter. Which conveniently dilutes the amount of hate going on on both to people who dont know what to look for.
Funny how that works out.
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ngtm-1r have i ever told you that you can be quite mysterious
I shall explain.
DA:O in its efforts to call back to BG and related titles managed to create an RPG system that was, essentially, unabashed insane '80s RPG silliness, pretending that the last generation and a half of tabletop games do not exist. (I believe I talked about this at the time.) Now don't get me wrong, when it comes to lethal number-heavy hard-to-play insanity I'm cool with it, I play Rifts. But DA:O somehow managed to keep everything that was wrong with AD&D 2 despite having mechanized the the system.
The game seriously needed to take a few pointers from more modern systems like Feng Shui or those by White Wolf. DA2 has apparently done so.
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Short initial impression: the combat system, while faster and more lethal than I'd like, is fine. The encounter design is not. After about two hours on hard I decided I didn't particularly feel like dealing with the developers shouting LOL ASSASSINS SPAWN ON YOUR MAGES LOL every fight and bumped the difficulty back down to roflstomp normal.
This is a good game that could and should have been a great one.
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Exactly. I really don't know what they were thinking with the encounters - having a bunch of dudes ninja in every single fight really ****s up tactics. Placement and preparation mean next to nothing.
But the more I play this the less I think it deserves the controversy surrounding it.
I shall explain.
Ah. That's interesting, actually - I admit Origins' gameplay did nothing for me, but I'd just put that down to the excruciatingly long dungeons. For all I knew you were making a reference to The Witcher
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The Witcher also has an fairly good combat system by the way. I never got why those oldies always shout about RPG systems that are dumbed down from Baldur's Gate. They, by example, take the levelling mechanics. And somehow, the Baldur's Gate's 'You just levelled up, enjoy your extra hitpoints and the slightly higher to hit chance' are somehow considered vastly more complex then ... say.. The Witcher or Mass Effect 2s. It's almost like saying the M16A1s superior to the FN SCAR because it jammed more often and you really had to work in order to get some results out of it or something, even though it is less flexible and completely inferior in every way (Except production costs, probably).
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Well, in this case it is undeniably reduced from the original. Magic alone has 3 major reductions that spring immediately to mind.
1: There are no spell combos. They just aren't there anymore. That's a pretty big loss as far as I'm concerned, as I used things like Grease Fire, Paralysis Explosion, Sleep/Horror, And force explosion constantly in DA1.
2: You cannot cast spells at all outside of what the game considers combat. Another big loss since you lose the ability to set down traps, runes and lures for a tactical advantage.
3: There is no friendly fire. Meaning you can just toss around spells willy-nilly with nary a thought about tactical positioning.
Pretty big losses. And then the plot...oh dear lord, the epic "LOLWUT" of the poorly thought out plot.
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No friendly fire??!? That was like the biggest thing from DA:O that actually required you to think! (Also really neat when the hurlock emissary fireballs his own guys by accident)
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Not on normal difficulty, at the very least.
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That's unchanged from DA:O then. Normal difficulty had no friendly fire then, either. It's the difficulty I played on, specifically because it didn't have FF.
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Normal did have friendly fire by default in Dragon Age 1. Damage was reduced by 50% though. Easy Difficulty had no friendly fire - sort of. Spell combos would still self affect though.
Wait, are you talking about the console version of DA1? If so, that may be the case, as the console versions of DA1 were easier then the PC version.
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Only nightmare difficulty has friendly fire in DA2. I don't know how badly the AI handles it though, since one bout with respawning ninjas in plate mail with their dual wielded instacrits was enough, and I dropped it to hard, and then normal some time after that - probably one time when all of my characters were running around with six giant spears stuck through each of them.
Still, the whole game wasn't as bad as I expected, apart from the waves and about 3/4ths of the first act. And the end. Good god the end. If there is one thing I like more than a tedious multistage boss fight, its two. Back to back. :mad: Made worse by dying right after the final bosses' 'Why is this taking so long?' line (which was around 5% health) and having to do it all over again.
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3: There is no friendly fire. Meaning you can just toss around spells willy-nilly with nary a thought about tactical positioning.
Given the speed with which enemies close to melee, the number of enemies, and the pervasive nature of AoE attacks, having friendly fire on would be...unpleasant. Though sure, they could and should have just made a damn toggle for the people who wanted it.
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Quite a number of changes from DA:O create that problem. Enemies close faster, somewhat, but part of it is the distance at which contact is established. Every battle in DA2 is a series of ambushes, first by placed enemies you can't engage until you're at a certain distance, then more ambushes from enemies who magically appear at point blank. That's part of why point 2 was there - initiating combat at range meant a buffer zone to control the crowd. The enemy count is problematic because there aren't anywhere near as many effective crowd control abilities, and those that are run into the problem of recharge time versus respawn rate.
The whole affair reliably degenerates into a cluster****, in essentially every encounter. More guttural and faster paced, perhaps, but it's still lacking most of the tactical depth of the first one.
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That's unchanged from DA:O then. Normal difficulty had no friendly fire then, either. It's the difficulty I played on, specifically because it didn't have FF.
Normal only had no FF on console. On PC it had something like 50% FF and spell effects like freeze still worked on party members.
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And then the plot...oh dear lord, the epic "LOLWUT" of the poorly thought out plot.
So far the plot is better than Origins'.
Edit: Which, admittedly, is not saying much.
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I assume you're not playing as a mage then? The combination of the setting plus a mage hero turns the entire game into one giant WTF.
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My Hawke's a warrior, but I must be missing something. You spend most of your time butting heads with the Templars. Isn't that an ideal environment for a mage hero?
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No, you don't spend time butting heads with them. That's the whole point. It takes 4 friggin' years of you running around town in a mage robe, with a staff, throwing lightning bolts for the damn templars to notice.
Despite the setting going above and beyond to point out that the Templars have gone way beyond even normal oppression, they basically are oblivious. For years - and it's not like it's some big secret. Ignoring the mage getup and the staff, your uncle has sold you to a mercenary company and a smuggling group as an apostate within a week of getting there. It's nonsensical that you'd make it to year two without being drug off and tranquilized or given a quick ride on the sword of mercy. And then you factor in that your companions include an abomination and a blood mage.....it's just absurd.
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Haha, well, when you put it that way it does seem silly. Although you find apostates everywhere in the setting - I'd just assumed the problem was widespread enough that the Templars couldn't afford to treat every apostate as significant. Thieves aren't exactly tolerated either but it's hardly a surprise to find them in a big city.
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My impressions of the game, based on the demo.
Dialogue compass: Do not like it. It's like Mass Effect, except not good. In MA, you still had more choices, and had a much better idea of how what you say will come out. I'm going to have to agree with... the first guy to hate the dialogue system.
Graphics: Mmmyes, very nice.
Combat: Definitely faster, feels pretty good. The speed makes it feel a little shallow, but I think I could get used to it. The no AOE spells is cheap, but I can see where they (the designers) are coming from with that decision.
Really don't like: Holding TAB doesn't show everybody's health anymore! I can't tell who's alive/not alive/next target at a glance. For combat that's supposed to be faster, this feels like a boneheaded move.
Also, the new Hurlock animation makes them seem to move less like semi-human evil abominations, and more like zombie orangutans (pretty frightening, but not in the right way...) or Orcs from The Two Towers.
Waves: In the demo, I didn't notice archers conspicuously popping into existence, though I know they must have. Could definitely get annoying, but didn't bug me too much. I could see this making combat more tedious than fun after a few hours.
Conclusion: Based on the graphics, and the tales of the story actually being pretty good after the first chapter, I think I might buy this when I can get the ultimate edition on super sale. Maybe December?
This review brought to you by: The Colon
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No, you don't spend time butting heads with them. That's the whole point. It takes 4 friggin' years of you running around town in a mage robe, with a staff, throwing lightning bolts for the damn templars to notice.
Despite the setting going above and beyond to point out that the Templars have gone way beyond even normal oppression, they basically are oblivious. For years - and it's not like it's some big secret. Ignoring the mage getup and the staff, your uncle has sold you to a mercenary company and a smuggling group as an apostate within a week of getting there. It's nonsensical that you'd make it to year two without being drug off and tranquilized or given a quick ride on the sword of mercy. And then you factor in that your companions include an abomination and a blood mage.....it's just absurd.
What I find fun is using blood magic in front of Cullen....and Meredith. They are both oblivious...EVERYONE is so oblivious.
I had at least a 100 witnesses to my magic - and that is the first year in Kirkwall alone. :D
In the start you are a nobody and people not finding you isn't completely unbelievalbe...after all, that peasant might have seen you use magic, but he doesn't know who you are.
But once you become Champion, everyone knows you...and you can still fling spells like crazy left and right.
EDIT: Is it just me, or do the enviroments suck? I'm not talking about repetition of areas, I'm talking about how bland and empty they are. Take a look at the Dalish camp and Alienage and compare them to those in Origins. So lifeless, so small...
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It's pretty hit and miss, but I actually felt the opposite in some areas. I found Origins visually anemic.
The world does feel cramped, though.
Really don't like: Holding TAB doesn't show everybody's health anymore! I can't tell who's alive/not alive/next target at a glance. For combat that's supposed to be faster, this feels like a boneheaded move.
Good news! Must be different in the demo, because tab does exactly that. I've been using it the entire game.
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In the start you are a nobody and people not finding you isn't completely unbelievalbe...after all, that peasant might have seen you use magic, but he doesn't know who you are.
But once you become Champion, everyone knows you...and you can still fling spells like crazy left and right.
It's actually most troubling in year 4 - after you're a prominent citizen, but before you're champion. They actually do address the issue after you're champion. You're an open apostate, but you're also a war hero and politically very influential. Meredith gives you leeway because you've got a lot of clout, she's already stepped on a lot of toes, and the local nobility ain't happy. Openly opposing you would almost certainly lead to the proverbial hammer falling.
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And then the plot...oh dear lord, the epic "LOLWUT" of the poorly thought out plot.
So far the plot is better than Origins'.
Edit: Which, admittedly, is not saying much.
Disagree, so much. This is even more poorly thought out and put together than Origin's plot. Origins wasn't original, but it was at least decently executed. This manages neither, and does so incoherently.
The only saving graces I've really found are some of the Companions (Sebastian, Varric, Merril [Dat welsh accent, even if she can't hold it and goes Irish sometimes], Aveline and, surprisingly, Carver)
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Origins' plot was poorly executed, and no more focused than DA2. The only times it moved faster than a snail's pace were at its opening and ending. The rest of the time you fussed about with hilariously contrived problems that neither had any real bearing on the story nor supplied any excuse to get emotionally invested. DA2 is disjointed, but at least its centrepiece is something moderately engaging - namely, your character's personal story and rise to fame - to which its major quests actually make a meaningful contribution.
Let's be clear. I don't think DA2's plot is good. It's no counterfeit LotR, which is something, but the fantasy politics of its setting are simplistic and weighed down with their own cliches and its inability to decide what sort of political territory it wants to explore does it no credit. That said, I think there's more merit to what BioWare tried here than in the by-the-numbers bore Origins turned out to be. Both the structure and the subject matter are unfamiliar ground for them. They failed on many levels, but overall I think it's a step in the right direction.
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I think the biggest failure of the plot is that (HUGE SPOILER FOR THE ENDING)
in the end you end up having to fight the same two people no matter what you do, and the mages always get themselves possessed, which makes it kinda pointless to side with the mages. The game only seems to make sense if you go all hardline templar the whole time and even though, welp, Meredith.
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I think the biggest failure of the plot is that (HUGE SPOILER FOR THE ENDING)
in the end you end up having to fight the same two people no matter what you do, and the mages always get themselves possessed, which makes it kinda pointless to side with the mages. The game only seems to make sense if you go all hardline templar the whole time and even though, welp, Meredith.
Yeah.
It's hard to get emotionally invested when The mages are being presented as abominations and demon consorting blood mages at every turn. What's also annoying is how Anders and Merril get pissed off when you subsequently turn in/kill these murderous mages. There is no option to say "I'd kill them/turn them even if they weren't mages. Things like this just aren't done". It's like they want me to excuse mass murder just because they're an oppressed mage [Which my Hawke is also]. Anders crossing the line into outright terrorism at the end makes me wish I could've shanked him sooner. My Fem Hawke who had romanced him did anyway, because she considered her duty to do what is right stronger than her love for a maniac/abomination who is beyond redemption
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On the subject of Merrill, I wonder if her Rivalry/Loyalty system is broken. No matter what I do, I always get rivalry points, even for giving her gifts.
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Dunno, but I got her loyalty maxed out with no real difficulty. In any case, I just finished DA2 after a few days of fooling around with something else.
As was said before, almost every mage turned to blood magic, hence justifying hard-liner templars. As I was playing a mage myself, this really felt kinda ridiculous. Hell, both Merrill and Anders were possessed and the other was even a blood mage for chrissakes. At the end the most influential mage in Kirkwall turned to blood magic. Most mage-encouners had them blood mages. It seems like Bioware didn't even bother giving the mages a chance at all, really disappointing.
Aside of that, I'm most disappointed with the repetitive enviroments. There's gotta be a limit how many times you dwell through same bloody caves and whatnot. Other than those two major beefs I have with DA2, I can live with the rest and say that DA2 is good enough game to be fun throughout at least one playthrough.
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This game gets more and more like WFB every installment. :/
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On the subject of Merrill, I wonder if her Rivalry/Loyalty system is broken. No matter what I do, I always get rivalry points, even for giving her gifts.
Yeah, I just did a sequence in which I theoretically gained quite a bit of rivalry with Isabella and Merrill. Except then I actually looked at their character sheets and I had more friendship than I had before.
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I think the biggest failure of the plot is that [snip]
Haha. Wow, that is bad. Sounds like I lucked out. I played a character for whom that turn of events not only made sense but was the only outcome I'd have been satisfied with.
My Hawke began as sympathetic to the mages but over the course of the story came to loathe them as much as the templars. She was also arrogant, and quite power-hungry - believing she could fix the whole ridiculous mess - and her decision was to play both sides against the other, crippling both and leaving her on top. Even though the game wasn't really equipped to handle that motivation, roleplaying it was a goddamn blast.
Particularly satisfying was the relationship with Anders, which began innocently enough but turned into a quiet hatred once it became obvious what he was capable of. She fed his anger toward the templars, knowing quite well how far he'd take it, and when he committed his little act of terrorism it had the air of carefully manipulated pieces falling into place. At which point she sided with the templars despite everything she'd led him to believe about her and, having no more use for him, cut the poor ****er down. I was grinning like an idiot the entire time. There's nothing quite so much fun in roleplaying as pulling off your own face heel turn.
I was worried the game would decide Hawke and the templars were friends from that point, but it gave me plenty of opportunities to screw with Meredith and of course the whole thing could only end one way. My only real disappointment was that the writers fell back on the boring device of the villain simply having gone a bit nutty, particularly since Meredith had perfectly explicable motivations without it.
None of that is an endorsement of DA2, mind you, but I did have more fun with the roleplaying here than in any BioWare game since BG2. Just sayin'.
Probably wouldn't hold up to subsequent playthroughs, though. It's all a bit of a shame. With a better writing staff and another year in the oven this game could've been great. As it is it's just something I really enjoyed but is nearly impossible to recommend. Alas.
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Having finished the game tonight--and damn that was abrupt, Acts 1&2 had "THIS QUEST ENDS THE ACT ARE YOU REALLY SURE YOU ARE READY?!?!?!?!" warnings, but AFAICT Act 3 did not, so suddenly it was "WE'RE IN THE FINAL STRETCH, HOLD ON TO YOUR HATS!" out of nowhere, which...well, I wasn't done yet, so sad. Anyway. As a slightly interactive movie, it's superior to DA:O. In every other respect it is inferior. I only regret my purchase insofar as it helps Mike Laidlaw keep his job, though. In terms of entertainment it was worthwhile, but I no longer expect DA3 to be particularly engaging.
So, the ending
Since ****ing when is "And then the templar leader pulls out a sword-that-is-not-a-sword-but-is-instead-Lyrium-possessed-by-a-demon (that was what it was, right?), jumps a thousand feet into the air and then brings scores of giant statues to life" something that makes sense in Dragon Age?
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On the subject of Merrill, I wonder if her Rivalry/Loyalty system is broken. No matter what I do, I always get rivalry points, even for giving her gifts.
Rivalry and Freindship are misleading.
Rivalry = friend, but one that disagrees with something important to you.
When it comes to Merrill, rivalry is the proper way to go about with her, even if it is difficult to say "no" to her. Ultimatively, as true friend has to be brutally honest and say "Messing with demons is bad, m'kay?2
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I was bored at work and found myself thinking about DA2. I had an epiphany: the encounter design isn't the problem with the combat. The problem is that someone--hi Mike!--made the decision that DA2 needed to be AWESOME! In order for the game to be AWESOME! our heroes need to be AWESOME!ly powerful. Thus, a substantial proportion of enemies can be one or two shotted by a substantial proportion of our AWESOME! abilities--there's little short of a miniboss that can survive a whirlwind/spirit pulse combo from Fenris, at least on normal. If memory serves, this is true of hard as well (I think the primary difference is that your characters become less durable as you up the difficulty?). Which means, if all the enemies started in the same spot, you could kill or severely wound the majority of them using a single character's AoE attacks. And you have four characters, all of which can develop AWESOME! AoE abilities. Well, maybe not Aveline. She's not AWESOME!
So. If reinforcement waves spawned in sane places, and together, every encounter would go like this: Fenris walks up, uses AWESOME!singletargetstrike on the beefiest enemy, followed by whirlwind and maybe spirit pulse. First wave is now dead, except for maybe archers off in the wings. Second wave spawns, Bethany makes them eat a fireball and then a firestorm, so they're all dead now . Third wave spawns, Merril pops Tempest and chain lighting, now they're dead too, battle is over, ten seconds have passed.
I exaggerate slightly, but only slightly. Make sense to anyone?
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I felt that DA2 lacks the long winded-fun of BG2 fights. Extended fights can take a time, but it's quite fun to slowly bleed your opponent and whittle their minions down. With DA2, it's pretty much AWESOME pwnage.
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The Lead Designer (Mike) and the lead level designer did a bit of talking, commenting on DA2.
Both of them failed miserably in their defense of DA2, talking BS and generally earning my hate....
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6716182
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6673392
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6724175
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Mike has a serious Rice/Hamilton thing going on, which is sad.
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Mike has a serious Rice/Hamilton thing going on, which is sad.
It wouldn't be unbearable if it were just Rice, though it'd probably piss me off...
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Mike has a serious Rice/Hamilton thing going on, which is sad.
Which Rice/Hamilton? :nervous:
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The ones who write novels about vampires and werewolves and humans and orgies and then think that people don't like their books because their books are challenging (http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/004776.html)
I think the Rice thing was on Amazon, but I can't be bothered to find it.
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I don't really know anything about Laidlaw, but if that's in reference to (admittedly rather self-congratulatory) comments like this:
I've certainly seen a fair amount of feedback that says, "I couldn't play Origins, I thought it was too slow, the story was too plodding, too typical, and Dragon Age II is awesome by comparison!"
I mean, that's kind of how I feel. I don't know if awesome is quite the word I'd use, but...
I also happen to agree with his thoughts on genre stagnation even if I think they're funny coming from someone who works at BioWare.
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Nah, I had more in mind stuff like
I'd much rather make a game that challenges people and doesn't just rest on its laurels.
It boils down to a game that challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and I cannot handle it."
And also the way he feels the need to diminish DA:O in order to make DA2 look good in comparison
There's this strange perception that because the combat is faster - characters leaping into place or charging forward - it's an inherently console thing. We designed that because we thought that the ability to whirl around and snap off a fireball at a guy who's charging you, rather than shuffling in and launching it usually a couple of feet behind him, created a much stronger sense of responsiveness.
see what steps we can take to increase the overall speed and the way that characters execute the orders that I give, as opposed to awkwardly waiting to get there.
(apparently part of increasing responsiveness is to significantly increase the likelihood that enemies will stunlock your characters. Everyone say hi to the Arishok*!)
He's done this a few other times in a few other places--I think. But now I can't find them, so maybe not.
I'm overstating the case, but I enjoy hyperbole.
Oh, and there was
So I think there is absolutely room to make an isometric six-player tactical combat RPG, but we shouldn't only be making those. Because if we do, we're going to get very self-referential, and potentially not see any RPGs coming out in the future.
What the ****, Mike? Only making those? When was the last time your company made one of those? Right, DA:O. And before DA:O? Right, BG2. So...a decade, then. Yeah, I can totally see how you'd be worried about becoming self-referential by making so many tactical combat RPGs.
One thing I do want to give the team a lot of credit for is making 4/5 of the romance options available to a Hawke of either gender. Given the generally, mm, retrograde state of entertainment media, that's no small thing.
*That reminds me. Was anyone able to solo the Act 2 boss with a mage or rogue without kiting him forever? Because that's what I ended up doing, and it was tedious and stupid. But there was no way to go toe to toe with the ****er, and I hadn't specced into invisibility/doppleganger talents, so...
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I'm not sure DA:O counts as a six-player either. Six character, if you squint really really hard?
What the hell does he mean by six-player? Seriously.
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He means six-player character, like Baldur's Gate. I love semantics!
But yeah, those quotes are a bit dubious. I think an argument can be made that DA2 does challenge fantasy RPG conventions - particularly its storytelling and the role of the protagonist - even if it's not very good at it. Certainly it challenges the **** out of BioWare conventions. But the way he seems to be using that to dismiss criticism is disappointing.
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I watched some dialogue of Aveline and Isabella *****ing at each other and it actually looked pretty good. A few of the obligatory 'i am witty and whedonesque' lines, but all in all okay.
I'll look forward to trying this one out...on Steam sale.
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What irks me is how Mike insist there there is no problem.
DA2 Metacrtic rating keeps dropping (professional score is now below 80%), Bioware forums are still full of diasisfied people and all he does is paint all who don't like his work as backwater people, not being able to handle "change".
Well Mike, change is not a good thing by default!
There are good things in DA2..I love some of he characters, there were some interesting concepts (that weren't taken full advantage of)...BUT..the area design is HORRIBLE, replay value is small (nothing changes, regardless which options you choose) and there's a whole slew of other problems with it.
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He means six-player character, like Baldur's Gate. I love semantics!
But yeah, those quotes are a bit dubious. I think an argument can be made that DA2 does challenge fantasy RPG conventions - particularly its storytelling and the role of the protagonist - even if it's not very good at it. Certainly it challenges the **** out of BioWare conventions. But the way he seems to be using that to dismiss criticism is disappointing.
Honestly, I don't mind the change in storytelling. It's just that the execuation is luckluster.
A 10-year span narrative, yet what changes in those 10 years? Nothing really. You didn't FEEL that passage of time.
Having a family? Great!
Having problems be more personal and small-scale? Sure, why not (altough smaller-scale is a bit misleading...in DA:O you save Ferelden, in DA2 you basicly start a World War...which is "grander" in scope by comparison?)
Good ideas, mediocre exection.
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No argument here.
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A 10-year span narrative, yet what changes in those 10 years? Nothing really. You didn't FEEL that passage of time.
That is an understatement of epic proportions. I'm willing to wager that if you were to remove the floating "Year 3" messages with "Later that week...", nobody would see anything out of place.
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A 10-year span narrative, yet what changes in those 10 years? Nothing really. You didn't FEEL that passage of time.
We have a skewed perspective on this because the march of progress in our time is much quicker than it was in the timeperiod being portrayed, and the ability to move around much greater. A decade being a short span of time, and very samey, is actually pretty reasonable for the Medieval-ish world being portrayed.
Alternately you're absolutely correct but they just happened to blow it a way that's mildly appropriate.
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The only way that the people change--visibly, I mean--is, uh, Aveline gets a new uniform.
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The only way that the people change--visibly, I mean--is, uh, Aveline gets a new uniform.
Which isn't terribly impossible either depending on age range. :P
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The ones who write novels about vampires and werewolves and humans and orgies and then think that people don't like their books because their books are challenging (http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/004776.html)
I think the Rice thing was on Amazon, but I can't be bothered to find it.
Oh right, yes, them
I get what you're getting at now
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I will say that the Act 1 -> Act 2 time jump didn't bother me, since your place in the city changed dramatically; people reacted to you differently, you walked in different circles, you got a fancy estate. More could've been done with it, but it worked for me. It was Act 2 -> Act 3 that really fell flat.
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I've only played as far as the Deep Roads and I must say that I'm incredibly disappointed about
Hawke's brother suddenly contracting and dying of the darkspawn taint out of nowhere. I was tempted to replay the whole section just to see if I could save him by leaving him behind but apparently even if you do that he'll still die or be removed from the game somehow.
****ing awful writing.
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If you leave him behind, he is not removed from the game. You will in fact meet him a few times at the end of Act 3. He doesn't die.
I didn't know he dies if you take him with you to the Deep Roads. I wonder, does same happen if your surviving sibling is Bethany? And what happens to Bethany if you don't take her with you to the Deep Roads?
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I'd expect she'd die the same way, and it doesn't really surprise me. The game warns you it'll happen when your mother begs you not to take her.
If you don't take her, Bethany gets taken to the Circle and you run into her at several points in the plot, mainly in the finale. Probably the same places as Hawke's brother.
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Third option, if you take Anders with you, is that Beth gets Grey Wardened.
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I've just got past the qunari invasion and have ventured into the deep roads for a second time and come across a puzzling thing, a warden says that your warden allied with the architect, even though in the saved character i imported, i killed him and when you click on the events button or whatever, where it tells you what you did in DA O and DA A, it has him as dead, yet in the game he is mentioned as being allowed to go free by the warden, weird!
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Just like how in DAA and DA@ many characters made references to the Warden's relation with Zevran even though I sent his sorry ass back to Antiva.
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Ok i have just finished the game and i have to say, after a good final fight, why oh why does the end suck so much!!!! sooooooooooo anticlimactic, just like Dragon Age Origins, a let down when it comes to the ending, i know its meant to end so that will lead on to DA3 but come on, Mass Effect 1 and 2 had brillant ends if rather cheesy and their a trilogy. I'll never get this problem with game writers/developers they put so much work into the beginning and the middle but when it comes to the end its like they ran out of steam ie Starcraft 2s ending.
A pretty good game but let down by the constant repeat of levels that are meant to be different locations( sorry Bioware but that is just lazy and not on.) and a rubbish ending.
erm 7 out of 10, IMHO the game should of had a longer development time.
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A 10-year span narrative, yet what changes in those 10 years? Nothing really. You didn't FEEL that passage of time.
We have a skewed perspective on this because the march of progress in our time is much quicker than it was in the timeperiod being portrayed, and the ability to move around much greater. A decade being a short span of time, and very samey, is actually pretty reasonable for the Medieval-ish world being portrayed.
Alternately you're absolutely correct but they just happened to blow it a way that's mildly appropriate.
You'd expect new people..changes in the city. Construction (like new houses or locations)...some crates changing location..SOMETHING!
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I finished the game in 2 days, give or take, with a Mage. I rather liked my ending sequence though.
An entire Circle of Templars bowing before an apostate mage just seems rather awesome.
In my ending, Anders blew up the Chantry along with the Grand Cleric (!), I defeated the Qunari invasion by having a mass brawl in the throne room, Carver became a Grey Warden, I didn't manage to romance anyone, and I never actually managed to recruit Isabella.
I agree that in some parts the writing is bad. The gameplay seems rather dumbed down from the original DA, and feels more like a Devil May Cry clone then a DA sequel. Tactics seem less important when your party will be wiping out enemy waves in no time flat.
I liked the voice acting though, and I thought linking seemingly insignificant sidequests to the main quest line was a rather smooth touch. For example:
When I chose to answer a letter from Thrask, the Nice Templar, and spared the Blood Mages, I didn't realise it'd come back to bite me in the butt later on when I was working for Meredith.
Also, since I didn't have Isabella, I didn't know about the relic, leaving me with that massive brawl I mentioned above.
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I've come around to the view that the writing isn't bad (Act 3's main line is actively awful, though), it's merely atrociously integrated with the gameplay, incomplete, and therefore less than the sum of its parts.
As an example, you know why there are so many crazy mages in Kirkwall? Because there's some sort of malevolent force under/in the city that ****s them up but good. You know why I'm not putting that in spoiler tags? Because it's a codex entry.
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As an example, you know why there are so many crazy mages in Kirkwall? Because there's some sort of malevolent force under/in the city that ****s them up but good. You know why I'm not putting that in spoiler tags? Because it's a codex entry.
It's the death of hundreds of millions of slaves in the past when Kirkwall was a slave city, and their deaths caused the wall between our world and the Fade to be weakened, allowing daemons to more easily cross over to infest the minds of the mages.
... will probably be the explanation somewhere.
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In the end, this reminds me a lot of KOTOR 2. It's a rush job, punted out of development while it was nowhere near finished or polished enough. It's a game that has good ideas, but that is ultimately let down by a lack of time. I'm certain that, if Bioware had another 6 Months, or another year, they could have made this into a truly great experience, but as it is, it's more like a quick cash grab. It's still enjoyable, don't get me wrong, but just like KOTOR 2, you can never escape the feeling that it could have been infinitely more.
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The DA community reckons that DA2 is just to make more money to pad out development costs for DA 3.
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the DA community reckons a lot of things
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feels more like a Devil May Cry clone then a DA sequel.
I have the feeling that DA2 would actually be a lot better if it were a DMC clone. :(
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Some truth in that, sadly.
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/31/analysis-dragon-age-ii/
RPS has a good knack for summing up my thoughts so I don't have to.
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Yes, saw that article too.. Pretty good, apart from the uninteresting companions. I rather liked Aveline, Merrill and Varric.
B.t.w - I just finished playing Drakensang: The River of Time. IT's a true old-school RPG, far prettier than DA2. And with a far more satisfying story and ending.
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The two funniest threads on the whole Bioware boards. Enjoy the madness:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6594400
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6927245/1
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Okay, so, DA2 is _such_ a flop that EA has decided to give everyone who bought it before April 30th a free copy of Mass Effect 2. As consolation prizes go, that's rather decent.
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If this site is to be trusted: http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/44011/dragon-age-ii/ , they have sold over 1 million copies (on all platforms) anyway. I don't know what are 'good sales' right now, but in the past 1 mil was quite a noticeable milestone.
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If this site is to be trusted: http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/44011/dragon-age-ii/ , they have sold over 1 million copies (on all platforms) anyway. I don't know what are 'good sales' right now, but in the past 1 mil was quite a noticeable milestone.
It's underperforming DA:O's sales so far, and massively underperforming their targets.
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Can't blame them for making a sucker game, they rushed it out right?
Nononono...wait, I could... well that only if I had at least bought it, but it's not the case. The demo was enough for me to decide.
And that ME2 move is a good thing at least they are doing something about it... bad luck for the fellows that already have ME2 or bought it after the 30th.
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It's underperforming DA:O's sales so far, and massively underperforming their targets.
I know, but at least it isn't a total failure. I just hope that Bioware will use some of the negative feedback, instead of dismissing it as trolling.
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Well if it is such a massive failure, I'm sure Bioware is quite aware of it.
I just hope they won't **** ME3 too. I'm not such a fan of DA, but I kinda fear these things...
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Given that ME is developed by a different crew working under different constraints, I think we can still safely look forward to ME3. Also, they had pretty much the same amount of time they had to work on ME2, so....
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(http://www.thoseposters.com/emailPosters/poster3687.jpg)
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If this site is to be trusted: http://gamrreview.vgchartz.com/sales/44011/dragon-age-ii/ , they have sold over 1 million copies (on all platforms) anyway. I don't know what are 'good sales' right now, but in the past 1 mil was quite a noticeable milestone.
Not reliable. Wikipedia elaborates:
While referenced in reliable sources, site's own methods of extrapolation and adjustment without source referral mean site is possibly unreliable by a large margin in estimates.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18919 <-- method analysis.
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Okay, so, DA2 is _such_ a flop that EA has decided to give everyone who bought it before April 30th a free copy of Mass Effect 2. As consolation prizes go, that's rather decent.
Methinks it's more of a ME3 marketing thing.
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(http://www.thoseposters.com/emailPosters/poster3687.jpg)
To be fair, DAII was targeted at consoles as much as it was PC, so it's not fair to cut out console sales. Doesn't mean that DA2 isn't failing hard, just not that dramatically.
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No, what you see there is the effect of the rather mediocre press DA2 has been getting. It didn't take long for people who previously thought that DA2 is a must-have title to come to the conclusion that they'll rather wait until it's in a Steam sale or something; offering additional incentives to buy it by bundling it with one of the most critically acclaimed and successful titles ever (which, while still current, is also at the end of its shelf life and about to get moved to the "EA Classics" line) really does make sense. And by making the offer retroactive, they appease the crowd at least partially. All in all, this is a rather clever marketing move.
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(http://www.thoseposters.com/emailPosters/poster3687.jpg)
To be fair, DAII was targeted at consoles as much as it was PC, so it's not fair to cut out console sales. Doesn't mean that DA2 isn't failing hard, just not that dramatically.
no, this are numbers per week, excluding Japan - for consoles. At least I think they are.
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No, it is excluding Japan and consoles. Still for PC sales worldwide, it sucks.
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I'd like to see a chart with *all* sales combined, so we can have a better picture of what it means to "fail".
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It's underperforming DA:O's sales so far, and massively underperforming their targets.
I know, but at least it isn't a total failure. I just hope that Bioware will use some of the negative feedback, instead of dismissing it as trolling.
They won't dismiss it their sales are down. This will turn a lot of heads at Bioware for certain.
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Ok, so I finally got around to play this.
Gameplay style: For all it's faults, Dragon Age: Origins knew what it was - a RPG. I get the feeling DA2 doesn't really know what it is and got stuck between being an arcade game and a FPS - not being really good at either. It's playable, but nothing more than that; the game feels more like they re-skinned Jade Empire into a Dragon Age theme than made a new Dragon Age game. Any fault with Jade Empire can be partially excused since it's pretty old by now, though - DA2 doesn't have that excuse. In addition, the waves of enemies thingie is just horrible, with enemies spawning out of nowhere just so you can kill 30 of them inside 5 minutes making fights too long and boring.
Plot: Could have been epic but fell short. Too many rushed shortcuts resulting in plot holes. On the plus side the game doesn't feel incomplete without DLCs the way Mafia 2 did; there's no obvious "cut out content, pay extra later for it" parts. As it is, the plot simply fails to drag me in and produce the "I want to play just a bit longer to see what happens next" factor.
Companions: Some good ones but overall I couldn't care less about most of them as they tend to be boring. Yes, Fenris and Anders, I'm talking about you - you two are the worst. On the plus side, some of the side dialogue between Isabella, Aveline and Merill can be hilarious at times.
Side Quests: Worst case of Bioware Meaningless Side Quest Syndrome I saw in a long time; they take the concept of generic to a whole new level. Rushed, short, mostly not even worth reading what they're about as they tend to consist of going to quest giver, proceeding to target which you have to kill/talk to/talk to then kill/, and then proceeding back to get your reward. Even worse are ones where you just find some item you simply need to give to someone marked on the map. Anyone saying Mass Effect had rushed and bad side quests should try this out and you'll see that Mass Effect ones are all literary masterpieces in comparison. The game shipped with some side quests bugged too, but those things tend to be patched up so it's not a major concern, more a symptom of this game's biggest problem, the fact it was an obvious rush job.
Overall, my general impression is that the game is playable but there's a notable decline in quality compared to other Bioware games recently. It's borderline boring in some segments; Deus Ex 2 finally got a companion in the "How Not To Do Sequels" category.
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It's underperforming DA:O's sales so far, and massively underperforming their targets.
I know, but at least it isn't a total failure. I just hope that Bioware will use some of the negative feedback, instead of dismissing it as trolling.
They won't dismiss it their sales are down. This will turn a lot of heads at Bioware for certain.
In one of the latest interviews, Bioware actually told the interviewer that DA2 is outselling DA.
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Well, I doubt they'd admit the problems, at the least until they start hyping DA3 (With good or bad reasons/results). I guess that's how it works with marketing too - the game is still full priced and all.
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In one of the latest interviews, Bioware actually told the interviewer that DA2 is outselling DA.
Link? Or at least the name of the publication?
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http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/13/exclusive-bioware-s-doctors-talk-mass-effect-3.aspx?PostPageIndex=3
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(http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/5628612/img/Anonymous/da2dao-sales.jpg)
(http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/5628651/img/Anonymous/da2-sales-week8-est17-wonline.jpg)
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To be fair, DAO came out right before Christmas.
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Yes, but what this shows to me is that DA:O had a better shelf-life. I mean, people kept telling people to get it now, because it was just that good. With DA2, the consensus seems to be to pick it up at a Steam sale or something.
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Quite so. Personally, if I can get it for 10€ or less, then I'll go for it. Doesn't seem to be worth any more than that. And that 10€ better get me some DLC packs too.
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Quite so. Personally, if I can get it for 10€ or less, then I'll go for it. Doesn't seem to be worth any more than that. And that 10€ better get me some DLC packs too.
If your taste is remotely similar to mine, just skip the whole thing. You want DLCs when you want more of a good thing. You do not want DLCs of a mediocre to bad product.
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If you want my advice, get Drakensang: River of Time from gamersgate. Cheap and LOADS better than DA2.
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If you want my advice, get Drakensang: River of Time from gamersgate. Cheap and LOADS better than DA2.
As if that last bit is any achievement. :P
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Alright, I'll give yo uthat.
Let me put it another way - I prefer it even to Origins.
It has great and rather realistic mechanics and a nice "feel" and graphical design.
In fact, the only downsides I could think of would be that there's less companion interaction than in DA:O (no romances) and that mages don't have so many OMGWTF spells.
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In fact, the only downsides I could think of would be [snip] and that mages don't have so many OMGWTF spells.
You clicked the mouse button and something AWESOME didn't happen? **** that. I'm not interested!
For the record, since the board's sarcasm detectors seem to be malfuctioning lately, that's a joke at Bioware's expense.
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(http://fakeposters.com.s3.amazonaws.com/results/2011/04/16/t3ga8dq39w.jpg)