Author Topic: Dragon Age 2  (Read 33028 times)

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Offline AtomicClucker

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I felt that DA2 lacks the long winded-fun of BG2 fights. Extended fights can take a time, but it's quite fun to slowly bleed your opponent and whittle their minions down. With DA2, it's pretty much AWESOME pwnage.
Blame Blue Planet for my Freespace2 addiction.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
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The Lead Designer (Mike) and the lead level designer did a bit of talking, commenting on DA2.

Both of them failed miserably in their defense of DA2, talking BS and generally earning my hate....



http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6716182

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6673392

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/6724175
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline mxlm

  • 29
Mike has a serious Rice/Hamilton thing going on, which is sad.
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Mike has a serious Rice/Hamilton thing going on, which is sad.

It wouldn't be unbearable if it were just Rice, though it'd probably piss me off...
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Mike has a serious Rice/Hamilton thing going on, which is sad.

Which Rice/Hamilton?  :nervous:
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline mxlm

  • 29
The ones who write novels about vampires and werewolves and humans and orgies and then think that people don't like their books because their books are challenging

I think the Rice thing was on Amazon, but I can't be bothered to find it.
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline Ransom

  • M. Night Russel
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I don't really know anything about Laidlaw, but if that's in reference to (admittedly rather self-congratulatory) comments like this:

Quote
I've certainly seen a fair amount of feedback that says, "I couldn't play Origins, I thought it was too slow, the story was too plodding, too typical, and Dragon Age II is awesome by comparison!"

I mean, that's kind of how I feel. I don't know if awesome is quite the word I'd use, but...

I also happen to agree with his thoughts on genre stagnation even if I think they're funny coming from someone who works at BioWare.

 

Offline mxlm

  • 29
Nah, I had more in mind stuff like

Quote
I'd much rather make a game that challenges people and doesn't just rest on its laurels.

Quote
It boils down to a game that challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and I cannot handle it."

And also the way he feels the need to diminish DA:O in order to make DA2 look good in comparison

Quote
There's this strange perception that because the combat is faster - characters leaping into place or charging forward - it's an inherently console thing. We designed that because we thought that the ability to whirl around and snap off a fireball at a guy who's charging you, rather than shuffling in and launching it usually a couple of feet behind him, created a much stronger sense of responsiveness.
Quote
see what steps we can take to increase the overall speed and the way that characters execute the orders that I give, as opposed to awkwardly waiting to get there.
(apparently part of increasing responsiveness is to significantly increase the likelihood that enemies will stunlock your characters. Everyone say hi to the Arishok*!)
He's done this a few other times in a few other places--I think. But now I can't find them, so maybe not.

I'm overstating the case, but I enjoy hyperbole.

Oh, and there was
Quote
So I think there is absolutely room to make an isometric six-player tactical combat RPG, but we shouldn't only be making those. Because if we do, we're going to get very self-referential, and potentially not see any RPGs coming out in the future.
What the ****, Mike? Only making those? When was the last time your company made one of those? Right, DA:O. And before DA:O? Right, BG2. So...a decade, then. Yeah, I can totally see how you'd be worried about becoming self-referential by making so many tactical combat RPGs.

One thing I do want to give the team a lot of credit for is making 4/5 of the romance options available to a Hawke of either gender. Given the generally, mm, retrograde state of entertainment media, that's no small thing.

*That reminds me. Was anyone able to solo the Act 2 boss with a mage or rogue without kiting him forever? Because that's what I ended up doing, and it was tedious and stupid. But there was no way to go toe to toe with the ****er, and I hadn't specced into invisibility/doppleganger talents, so...
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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I'm not sure DA:O counts as a six-player either. Six character, if you squint really really hard?

What the hell does he mean by six-player? Seriously.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Ransom

  • M. Night Russel
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He means six-player character, like Baldur's Gate. I love semantics!

But yeah, those quotes are a bit dubious. I think an argument can be made that DA2 does challenge fantasy RPG conventions - particularly its storytelling and the role of the protagonist - even if it's not very good at it. Certainly it challenges the **** out of BioWare conventions. But the way he seems to be using that to dismiss criticism is disappointing.

 

Offline General Battuta

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I watched some dialogue of Aveline and Isabella *****ing at each other and it actually looked pretty good. A few of the obligatory 'i am witty and whedonesque' lines, but all in all okay.

I'll look forward to trying this one out...on Steam sale.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
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    • FLAMES OF WAR
What irks me is how Mike insist there there is no problem.

DA2 Metacrtic rating keeps dropping (professional score is now below 80%), Bioware forums are still full of diasisfied people and all he does is paint all who don't like his work as backwater people, not being able to handle "change".

Well Mike, change is not a good thing by default!

There are good things in DA2..I love some of he characters, there were some interesting concepts (that weren't taken full advantage of)...BUT..the area design is HORRIBLE, replay value is small (nothing changes, regardless which options you choose) and there's a whole slew of other problems with it.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

  

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
He means six-player character, like Baldur's Gate. I love semantics!

But yeah, those quotes are a bit dubious. I think an argument can be made that DA2 does challenge fantasy RPG conventions - particularly its storytelling and the role of the protagonist - even if it's not very good at it. Certainly it challenges the **** out of BioWare conventions. But the way he seems to be using that to dismiss criticism is disappointing.

Honestly, I don't mind the change in storytelling. It's just that the execuation is luckluster.
A 10-year span narrative, yet what changes in those 10 years? Nothing really. You didn't FEEL that passage of time.
Having a family? Great!
Having problems be more personal and small-scale? Sure, why not (altough smaller-scale is a bit misleading...in DA:O you save Ferelden, in DA2 you basicly start a World War...which is "grander" in scope by comparison?)

Good ideas, mediocre exection.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Ransom

  • M. Night Russel
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No argument here.

 
A 10-year span narrative, yet what changes in those 10 years? Nothing really. You didn't FEEL that passage of time.

That is an understatement of epic proportions.  I'm willing to wager that if you were to remove the floating "Year 3" messages with "Later that week...", nobody would see anything out of place.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
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A 10-year span narrative, yet what changes in those 10 years? Nothing really. You didn't FEEL that passage of time.

We have a skewed perspective on this because the march of progress in our time is much quicker than it was in the timeperiod being portrayed, and the ability to move around much greater. A decade being a short span of time, and very samey, is actually pretty reasonable for the Medieval-ish world being portrayed.

Alternately you're absolutely correct but they just happened to blow it a way that's mildly appropriate.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline mxlm

  • 29
The only way that the people change--visibly, I mean--is, uh, Aveline gets a new uniform.
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
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The only way that the people change--visibly, I mean--is, uh, Aveline gets a new uniform.

Which isn't terribly impossible either depending on age range. :P
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Ravenholme

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  • (d.h.f)
The ones who write novels about vampires and werewolves and humans and orgies and then think that people don't like their books because their books are challenging

I think the Rice thing was on Amazon, but I can't be bothered to find it.

Oh right, yes, them

I get what you're getting at now
Full Auto - I've got a bullet here with your name on it, and I'm going to keep firing until I find out which one it is.

<The_E>   Several sex-based solutions come to mind
<The_E>   Errr
<The_E>   *sexp

 

Offline Ransom

  • M. Night Russel
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I will say that the Act 1 -> Act 2 time jump didn't bother me, since your place in the city changed dramatically; people reacted to you differently, you walked in different circles, you got a fancy estate. More could've been done with it, but it worked for me. It was Act 2 -> Act 3 that really fell flat.