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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: AtomicClucker on November 29, 2011, 07:22:31 pm

Title: I-War
Post by: AtomicClucker on November 29, 2011, 07:22:31 pm
Newton haets me and even fighters make damn good missiles.

Finally stopped being lazy and downloaded I-War from GOG.com over Turkey Day and have painfully learned that it isn't Freespace and my 'fighter' is a 160 meter long semitruck with rockets strapped to it, not too mention my PBCs can quickly overheat. Damn you thermodynamics.

And I have not Trebuchets or Alpha One powers. Dang.

Currently, the snag driving me nuts are some of the bugs in the missions that either make into loop-ville or else breaks it entirely. Par for the course, on one mission involving a booby-trapped base and defending a carrier, I find that I've killed more than I can kill, thanks to a loop that keeps spawning enemies. The flipside is that I've learned how to fly better, but nonetheless, I'm sick of killing re-spawns.

The good parts:

Newton and flying an over sized frying pan, the Dreadnaught is not forgiving and it doesn't turn on a dime, and I can die quickly due to a few wrong turns. But she is still a fine ship, just make sure to take advantage of free flight mode to give an enemy on your tail some missiles and a few PBCs to smoke.

Cinematics are pretty awesome, hard to believe that this came out in the late 90's but arguably makes the game alot more immersive. The briefing cutscenes and in-mission movies help to strengthen each of the points of the overarching plot and also gives plenty of ship porn for the players to oodle over.

Remote Control: In I-War2, I hardly used the game's remote feature to control other ships, in the original, this makes the game a hella lot funner. While it leaves the Dreadnaught a sitting duck, nothing rocks like slicing Indie ships with a super-blaster that is somehow called a fighter. Though in the game's defense, that's what it really is, a giant PBC gatling cannon, rapid fire mode is even more insane.

Plot is pretty sweet and worth surviving through a mission to see, and there are many clues scattered throughout the strings of missions that hint to the larger picture. At first it's pretty cliche, but the execution and story are well told and makes for a very memorable experience when you finish it.

Cons:

Bugs, lots of 'em.

Hammy controls, solved happily in the sequel, but I still slap the keyboard trying to get my lateral thrusters.

Borked cinematics, seems to be a problem with the engines graphics wrapper, but the awesome cutscenes are marred by video issues, I would recommend finding a program to convert the files into a more viewable format so you don't miss out on the ship porn.

I still recommend this game as one of those "must play" titles that falls into the ranks of Freespace, BG series, and others.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: karajorma on November 30, 2011, 07:45:22 am
I always recommend that anyone who likes I-War get hold of an Amiga or Atari ST emulator and try Warhead. The graphics are dreadful by today's standards but the game was written by Glyn Williams who later went on to make I-War and in many ways it is a prototype for I-War except that you fly a fighter rather than a dreadnaught.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on November 30, 2011, 10:29:15 am
Currently, the snag driving me nuts are some of the bugs in the missions that either make into loop-ville or else breaks it entirely. Par for the course, on one mission involving a booby-trapped base and defending a carrier, I find that I've killed more than I can kill, thanks to a loop that keeps spawning enemies. The flipside is that I've learned how to fly better, but nonetheless, I'm sick of killing re-spawns.

You need to listen to the radio chatter and think about what it means... and what you "could" do with your Corvette and it's damaged hyperdrive... in that situation.

Don't wanna spoil it so I'm not gonna say more...

Anyways... it's certainly not a bug, if you stand and fight in that mission then the whole point is that you will get killed. duh.

Plot is pretty sweet and worth surviving through a mission to see, and there are many clues scattered throughout the strings of missions that hint to the larger picture. At first it's pretty cliche, but the execution and story are well told and makes for a very memorable experience when you finish it.

The plot is by far the best plot a Spacesim ever had. I'll just say please really do read that radio chatter or...
 
Spoiler:
... you might find yourself ending up on the wrong side of the war about halfway through LOL.


In any case, I-War was beyond awesome :) The only mission that i really found a headache was one of the optional side missions where you had to dock with what essentially was a magnetic decelerator (a capure device used to catch cargo coming in on ballistic trajectories from other planets in system) that was 10 times as big as the dreadnaught (meaning your ship handling/inertia went really down the crapper) and had to use it to "catch" an unstable reactor (or something, don't remember anymore heh) before it impacted a station. Had to match trajectories exactly and being just a little big off meant the reactor impacted either you or part of the capture device meachanism that wasn't used for catching cargo...  leading to the expected fireworks. THAT took a couple of tries. ;)
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Davros on November 30, 2011, 10:48:12 am
Also has the bestest intro evar all 13 minutes of it (which i never get tired of pimping)

part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7AsRQXOUSY

part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw1m2ZW1u84&feature=related
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on November 30, 2011, 10:56:39 am
Let me add this tribute to I-War with Mal's song... which fits the mood of the game perfectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-7uEF-gDY8
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: AtomicClucker on December 02, 2011, 02:13:16 pm
I finally remembered how to complete the stupid Metallake mission, you fly into the giant tub to win that particular mission, but died from either collisions or my favorite was being killed by a drifting tug that I'd knocked out, but discovered after I was floating helpless in circles until I caught it in the viewport at the last minute.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Wanderer on December 02, 2011, 02:51:57 pm
For me it was the same case with both I-Wars, game was awesome... but mixing in the aliens really bored me out.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Davros on December 02, 2011, 03:09:47 pm
quick heads-up to the o.p
be aware there are 3 endings
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2011, 08:58:03 am
I got bored of I-War II once I realised I was taking ten minutes of flying through space to get to a mission which would kill me within a minute.

Bad game design 101 level mistake right there. :p
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Commander Zane on December 03, 2011, 09:40:03 am
Or it could just be a bad piloting mistake. :P

Three Cutter-class Corvettes can space my Tachyon-class Advanced PatCom or Devastator-class Heavy Dreadnaught if I **** up on a turn or a pass.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2011, 09:56:54 am
Or it could just be a bad piloting mistake. :P

Nope. It really did take that long to get to the mission.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 03, 2011, 11:44:50 am
For me it was the same case with both I-Wars, game was awesome... but mixing in the aliens really bored me out.

I-War 1 really wasn't about aliens. 
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Kszyhu on December 03, 2011, 12:02:47 pm
What mission are you talking about? There was one where you were tasked with retrieving some gunstars, and IIRC that one required quite a long flight (tug with LDS 1), but it didn't take 10 minutes. That said, autosave right at the start of the mission would be nice, but lack of it didn't stop me from completing the game two or three times. It's a shame that there's no new games where you can ram a ship at 10km/s and survive, or dodge 10 missiles without a single flare. Or destroy a space station with an explosive container hurled through space at a ridiculous speed. Or kill a capital ship while going around in a circle at 1 km/s, when one stray shot could end the fight.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 03, 2011, 12:13:38 pm
The reason that I-War has no checkpoints is that it was standard game design to have no checkpoints in space-sims as it was released.

Frankly... I don't really consider that complaint as "fair" as you could use it against pretty much the whole genre, including both the Wing Commander and Freespace series.
Old-school gamers may even point out that the adrenaline rush during combat is greatly improved by a lack of savepoints that let you instantly recover every single time you screw up. ;)
(Yes, back in the day we had no savepoints and we LIKED IT you young whippersnappers! HAH!.)


Anyways...  I think one should take the release date, as well as the rest of the genre into account when talking about savepoints. It's kinda hard to fault one of the finest, if not the finest, Space-Sim ever made for a lack of savepoints with the rest of the critically acclaimed titles in the genre not having savepoints either. :P

Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Wanderer on December 03, 2011, 12:37:35 pm
For me it was the same case with both I-Wars, game was awesome... but mixing in the aliens really bored me out.

I-War 1 really wasn't about aliens. 
I distinctly remember the 'Xmas tree' alien combined with the flashing red dot aliens of weird gooey pink space which you needed to visit for some oddball errant. So... no, not in key role but they were there.  As for that matter neither were they really key issue in I-War 2 either until the very end where they were used as deux ex machina to steamroll the plot to predetermined conclusion (coincidentally similar role, except far grander, as in I-War 1).

Nothing can be traced through capsule jump, which served as constant theme in the game until you --> meet the aliens <-- after which anything can be tracked through capsule jump...
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: AtomicClucker on December 03, 2011, 12:43:30 pm
According to one of the lead designers for the project on the GOG forums, they had an epic final act planned where you took the fight to the Corporates in Earth, but had to whip out the Chaos aliens as a cheap deus ex machina when the publisher rattled about funding and release dates. So we got 3 instead of 4.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Kszyhu on December 03, 2011, 12:51:19 pm
The reason that I-War has no checkpoints is that it was standard game design to have no checkpoints in space-sims as it was released.

Anyways...  I think one should take the release date, as well as the rest of the genre into account when talking about savepoints. It's kinda hard to fault one of the finest, if not the finest, Space-Sim ever made for a lack of savepoints with the rest of the critically acclaimed titles in the genre not having savepoints either. :P

I'm aware of that, I'm not blaming the game for lack of savepoints either. Reaching missions took some time, and possibility of  simply reloading at the start of the mission instead of the base on the other side of the cluster would be nice. Besides, being restricted to saving in one place was side-effect of developing the game for PCs and consoles (at least according to wikipedia).
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: karajorma on December 03, 2011, 07:29:32 pm
The reason that I-War has no checkpoints is that it was standard game design to have no checkpoints in space-sims as it was released.

Frankly... I don't really consider that complaint as "fair" as you could use it against pretty much the whole genre, including both the Wing Commander and Freespace series.

I think you miss the point. It wasn't 10 minutes of action like WC or Freespace. It was 10 minutes of the ship flying itself to a destination only for me to get killed after about a minute of the actual mission starting.

When I'm picking up a magazine to entertain myself while playing a computer game then something is ****ing broken with the game's design.

What mission are you talking about?

It was around 10 years ago so my memory is hazy but it was in the last act near the end where I had to fly to another system and I timed it as taking 10 minutes in real time to get there.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 03, 2011, 08:45:30 pm
It was around 10 years ago so my memory is hazy but it was in the last act near the end where I had to fly to another system and I timed it as taking 10 minutes in real time to get there.

Are you by chance talking about the second game while i talk about the first? /shrugs.

Just can't recall that mission either. I-War 2 had a lot of flying around in an open world... I-War 1 had just awesome missions.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: CP5670 on December 03, 2011, 09:34:10 pm
I gave IWar 2 more than a fair try but eventually gave up on it. This game was really hurt by the lack of saves, more than any other game I have ever played. That turned what should have been a legendary title into something that was honestly a chore to play. The game had other flaws but they would have been much easier to overlook if it had saves. I was quite impressed by all its innovations though and can appreciate what it tried to achieve, even if it's not something I actually want to play.

10 minutes of flying was actually on the low end of things. I recall more than one instance of taking half an hour to get to a combat section in a mission, and then being killed by a random event or a bug. Perhaps some day, I will revisit the game when virtual machines with state snapshots have better 3D support.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Unknown Target on December 03, 2011, 09:40:10 pm
Or it could just be a bad piloting mistake. :P

Nope. It really did take that long to get to the mission.

Yea I quit IWar2 when I spent 30 minutes flying to an objective, only to be killed by a randomly spawned raider party. Of course I hadn't saved because you can't save unless you're at your base, and by that point I was also fed up with the whole deal. Looks like CP5670 had the same problem.

Also, the devs made the mistake of giving you the most fun, awesome ship (IMO) in the game, the Storm Petrel, first, and then taking it away from you and never letting you get it back, forcing you to fly a ****ty tug for half the game. Gotta say it was less enjoyable.

The flight dynamics were a ton of fun, though, and I enjoyed the game otherwise.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: zookeeper on December 04, 2011, 03:24:31 am
forcing you to fly a ****ty tug for half the game. Gotta say it was less enjoyable.

I sometimes kept flying the tug even after getting better ships because I liked it that much... :blah:
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Kszyhu on December 04, 2011, 04:38:25 am
It looks like I have higher tolerance for bad game design, because none of those things mattered to me, flying the Patcom was just too fun. Unfortunately, there were some game-stopping bugs, where continuing with campaign was impossible. Oh, and I was annoyed the autopilot trying to take shortcuts through l-points, even when it would take twice as much time as getting to the destination using LDS. By the way, I wonder how many 'long flight time' complaints were based on poor autopilot performance. Stations and l-points had speed limits and 15-km radius LDSi fields, so getting through capsule space involved crawling 15 kms at 250 m/s to the l-point, then waiting in queue, finally jumping, and then crawling those 15 kms again. Flying manually would cut that time considerably.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 04, 2011, 06:53:33 am
Mileage may vary I guess. What strikes me as funny tho that some people consider bad game design in what I would  consider "minor flaws" at best...  I mean... frankly...    I-War had such incredible immersive complex combat and such a cool story, in the case of the first one arguably the best story ever written for a Space Sim,...  (that's gamedesign too, right? And in my eyes the finest in the genre too - by far ;) )  but uh yeah,... let's play something else where travelling is quicker and easier, right! :)

(Granted though, the second game, while still great,... was (sadly) a much more mainstream game with toned down combat mechanics and (also sadly) an open world with a toned down story and less awesome missions as well. I-War 2 was fun, but it doesn't redefine the genre like I-War 1, which again is a bit sad because it was the sequel and one would expect it to at least match the first games mechanics in complexity.)
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: CP5670 on December 04, 2011, 10:14:38 am
It wasn't just due to the autopilot following the speed limits. I was always breaking those on manual flight. In fact, at one point I started using the warp cheat to get around, and it was still taking forever to get through a mission due to docking delays, waiting at L-points and so on. (all the while worrying about random events that could suddenly kill you at any time and make you start all over)

I haven't played IWar 1 though. If it had short FS-style missions instead of an open world, it might be a lot more fun.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: AtomicClucker on December 18, 2011, 03:20:17 am
For a minor update, I'm really getting pissed on the Neutronium Galore mission.

Without giving mission spoilers, I'm tired of trying to shoot temp bridges and soon having "friendlies" return the favor of me saving their Navy asses by blasting the Dreadnought for a hearty thank you.

Any tips on closs cutting surgery?
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Davros on December 18, 2011, 10:32:15 am
They attack you because you shot them, you need to only hit the temp bridges
try using missiles for the temp bridges or use the destroy target cheat


I haven't played IWar 1 though. If it had short FS-style missions instead of an open world, it might be a lot more fun.

It sort of does have fs type missions (although not short) there is not really any free roaming content like the piracy stuff in iwar 2, its get mission, complete mission, get next mission
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Herra Tohtori on December 19, 2011, 06:12:57 pm
I quit I-War 2 EoC when I got to Granma's Lucretia's sweet space station and didn't have a clear notion on what to do next to get the plot moving anywhere. It seemed like I was expected to start doing random piracy/raiding operations using the space station as a base, which I really didn't have much interest in.

So, I did nothing, shut off the game, and never played it again.


Even Orbiter has better plot progression than that game, but maybe I just missed something obvious.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Unknown Target on December 19, 2011, 08:27:13 pm
Yea you're pretty much supposed to dick around until you start receiving emails from certain interesting/interested parties (The Stepsons). You do what they ask and that starts the plot moving along.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 20, 2011, 12:18:21 pm
Curiously... this thread is making me feel old...   I mean... back in the day gamers at least took their gaming "seriously" and weren't discouraged from enjoying an absolutely fantastic game by some minor technicalities like a lack of savepoints. Right? ... right? ;) LOL

Gotta ask, has the abundance of savepoints in every munchkin game really so spoilt us so much that we can't even enjoy a true masterpiece anymore simply because it lacks them? From what I remember playing I-War 1 and I-War 2 back in the day lack of savepoints or flight times were really never an issue... granted i played differently then, more careful, thinking about what I may run into, having a backup plan...   etc.

... and if i ever did get pasted I just made sure to not get pasted the second time.

Anyways.... you guys are missing out on one of the, if not "the", greatest space-sim franchises ever made...  over..... "savepoints" (you wimps ;) ) , just that there is no doubt about that hehe.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Wanderer on December 20, 2011, 12:54:10 pm
I quit I-War 2 EoC when I got to Granma's Lucretia's sweet space station and didn't have a clear notion on what to do next to get the plot moving anywhere. It seemed like I was expected to start doing random piracy/raiding operations using the space station as a base, which I really didn't have much interest in.

So, I did nothing, shut off the game, and never played it again.
It is IIRC said in dialogue in plain English. Attract attention of some higher-end 'dealers' in the area and get into business.

Lack of savepoints was annoying IMHO much less annoying in I-War 1 than in I-War 2. In I-War 2 it really suxored to get accidentally killed by colliding with megafreighter at the L-Point after good 1h long looting mission. Or failing due some menial detail in the 'longer than life' sneaking mission in Dante.

Usually it didn't really matter, with überpimped Adv PatCom with Assault/Gatling Cannons and tons of other goodies there was very little in the game that could challenge you in any manner. Which was also the downside of the game. Every one else is still flying in stock ships or with equipment equivalent roughly to I-War 1 era junk. Capships and fighters were a slightly different case, caps however died swiftly with dual cutting beams and fighters with missiles as hitting the pesky critters was always a chore.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Grizzly on December 20, 2011, 12:56:29 pm
Curiously... this thread is making me feel old...   I mean... back in the day gamers at least took their gaming "seriously" and weren't discouraged from enjoying an absolutely fantastic game by some minor technicalities like a lack of savepoints. Right? ... right? ;) LOL

Gotta ask, has the abundance of savepoints in every munchkin game really so spoilt us so much that we can't even enjoy a true masterpiece anymore simply because it lacks them? From what I remember playing I-War 1 and I-War 2 back in the day lack of savepoints or flight times were really never an issue... granted i played differently then, more careful, thinking about what I may run into, having a backup plan...   etc.

... and if i ever did get pasted I just made sure to not get pasted the second time.

Anyways.... you guys are missing out on one of the, if not "the", greatest space-sim franchises ever made...  over..... "savepoints" (you wimps ;) ) , just that there is no doubt about that hehe.

I also thought hte piracy was dull actually.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mongoose on December 20, 2011, 01:01:20 pm
Curiously... this thread is making me feel old...   I mean... back in the day gamers at least took their gaming "seriously" and weren't discouraged from enjoying an absolutely fantastic game by some minor technicalities like a lack of savepoints. Right? ... right? ;) LOL
I think it was just that, back then, we didn't know any better and weren't able to recognize poorly-designed elements like that. :p
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: MatthTheGeek on December 20, 2011, 01:08:04 pm
Back in the day you probably had a lower (number of games to play)/(free time) ratio. When you have to choose where to dedicate your free time, you quickly focus on well-designed games.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 20, 2011, 01:21:30 pm
To me... it sounds more like say...  refusing to go to the best restaurant in town because "it takes a bit longer to get food" there.

Ideally of course you want both... fast service and good food, just like you want games that have awesome gameplay and content + savepoints.... but the point here is, especially as far as I-War 1 is concerned, you are missing out on the possibly best and definitely deepest space-sim ever made.

I can most definitely guarrantee you that - at least from my purely subjective viewpoint - after 20 years of gaming, I-War 1 still stands out as the space-sim with the best gameplay and the best storyline... by far.

That people advocate that a convenience feature like "savepoints" should trump raw gameplay, depth and storyline nowadays is very sad indeed.

i.e. In my eyes very much like dissing a 5 star Steakhouse because you don't get your food as fast as at McDonalds :P :coughs:


Back in the day you probably had a lower (number of games to play)/(free time) ratio. When you have to choose where to dedicate your free time, you quickly focus on well-designed games.

Actually, what I focus on in my quite limited freetime, are unique experiences, which I find that the mainstream gaming market hardly provides anymore.
I-War was one of these games that was chock full of unique experience that you will literally not find in any other game and that you will still remember after decades.

... short of modders and indie developers todays gaming market just appears to be in short supply of some.... balls.

Title: Re: I-War
Post by: phatosealpha on December 20, 2011, 01:40:06 pm
Never played iWar1.  iWar2 was a blast - had to work around some rough edges though. 

The initial LDS drive you got was painfully slow, yeah.  Fortunately modding that up to a tolerable speed required nothing more then notepad, and didn't affect game balance at all.

And you don't actually have to wait in line at jump points - all you have to do is fly through the right side of it manually once you have the capsule drive.


And screw the storm petrel.  Give me my patcom with cutting beams any day.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mongoose on December 20, 2011, 01:43:44 pm
It's not just "convenience," though.  I've never played the game myself, but from what people are describing, there were instances where an hour's worth of gameplay could be wiped out by a random occurrence, all because the game didn't bother to save your status at any point along the way.  I'm sorry, but that's just a broken design element, and a fairly significant one too.  Absolutely nothing kills my immersion in a game faster than having to replay a significant chunk of it because of a cheap death...I play games to escape from the real world and have some fun, not as an alternate job.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 20, 2011, 01:52:40 pm
It's not just "convenience," though.  I've never played the game myself, but from what people are describing, there were instances where an hour's worth of gameplay could be wiped out by a random occurrence, all because the game didn't bother to save your status at any point along the way.  I'm sorry, but that's just a broken design element, and a fairly significant one too.  Absolutely nothing kills my immersion in a game faster than having to replay a significant chunk of it because of a cheap death...I play games to escape from the real world and have some fun, not as an alternate job.

First, what we need to do is to differentiate which of the two games we are talking about.

And frankly... even in the second game, instances of having an "hour's worth of gameplay" wiped out can only be attributed to gross incompetence.
Travelling really isn't *THAT* big of an issue as some people make it out, if you fly manually and properly (instead of using the autopilot which makes you wait in orderly ship ques and observes the speed limit like an old lady). If you travel directly to objectives, complete them and go back to base it really is not *THAT* big of a deal as it is being portrayed here, at least it wasn't to me.

Comparing I-War 1 to I-War 2 I would even say that the second game got quite a bit too easy once you got the Patcom and especially once you had the Corvette. the Corvette with it's (was it 5?) shield projectors was outright "easy mode" compared to the complexity of handling I-War 1's much less forgiving "Dreadnaught" Corvette with it's 1 top and 1 bottom shield projector (each capable of only blocking the fire from a *SINGLE* enemy ship) and it's huge shielding hole up the rear.

I-War 1 was much more of a "sim", or at least that's how it felt to me.... I-War 2, while being an awesome game in it's own way, left me with a bit of an aftertaste of "Alpha 1 powers activate". - in direct comparison to the first game anyways - both games gameplay is still quite a bit more complex than the average "space-sim" ala Freespace or Wing Commander.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Grizzly on December 20, 2011, 02:30:41 pm
Note to make here: I-war is probably one of the few games that actually classifies as a space sim, with it having a realistic orbit of planets and a newtonain flight models. Freespace and Wing Commanders are no more space sims then Call of Duty or Brothers in Arms are realistic shooters. We really need another name for it. That Space Sim thing probably derives from Elite.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Thaeris on December 20, 2011, 09:34:04 pm
I'm happy to call X-Wing a sim, and FS a sim. However, they're more precisely arcade sims.

I'd love to get I-War some time, though last time I tried getting things off GOG, the transaction simply refused to go through. But yes, truly realistic space sims are generally lacking. Orbiter is of interest to me, though I've not found the time to really learn the software. Space Combat can, like any sim, be "cheated" with in terms of reality and realism, but more so was incomplete and thus limited in scope. Most of the truly realistic sims out there are general sims (like X-Plane or MS Flight), and require a bit of imagination to hold your attention. Most of the time that works on my end, but sometimes one needs a bit more.

Of late, I've been playing with Starshatter. The physics are definately semi-realistic - they're better than FS's semi-newtonian physics, but they're certainly still not perfect. Until Infinity and the iNovae engine comes out, "true space sims" will probably be limited to old games most people don't bother to play with. Which is a shame.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: CP5670 on December 20, 2011, 11:14:38 pm
That was the thing. IWar 2's flight and combat mechanics provide a level of depth completely unlike all the other "space sims" out there, including FS. The massive open world had lots of possibilities for exploration and the game's plot universe was very well fleshed out. I even read all the entries in the game's encyclopedia. This seemed like my kind of game in so many ways, and I gave it a lot more patience than I normally do with games that lack saves, playing the campaign on and off for over two months before I finally got fed up with it.

As for this patcom ship, I never even got that far. I think I had gotten through about a third of the game (the point where you leave the system) but still had the tug, which was slow and unwieldy. Considering how long it took to get to that jump point, I can certainly imagine the game wiping out over a hour's worth of progress if you stray too far from the home system.

I would not say I have become less tolerant of flaws in games today. I played it in 2010 but would have tossed it aside a lot sooner in 2001, considering the quality of the games we had back then. PC gaming had matured considerably by then and I can't think of any other game from that period that wastes your time in replaying long portions and destroys any sense of accomplishment the way IWar 2 did. At the end of the day, it was full of innovations and great ideas but missed the whole point of what games are all about: it is simply not fun. I would say that playing it feels like work, but my actual work is a lot more enjoyable. :p

I can't say anything about IWar 1, having never played that, although if anyone is calling that the "sim" compared to the "easy" IWar 2, I should certainly stay far away from that game. :p
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 21, 2011, 12:52:42 am
CP5670, while I certainly can acknowledge your trouble with having no savepoints...  you also must acknowledge that without even having played the first game and with only having played one third of  the second (in direct comparison inferior) game, that it's as futile to discuss the game as it would be futile to discuss a book that you haven't even read or where you only read the first third.

That I-War 1 was the pinacle of space-sim design is pretty much without question among those who actually played the whole game ;). It had very much everything that is missing in todays mainstream games: complex well thought out gameplay, world building on par with what you otherwise only find in good sci-fi novels, a complex branching storyline with decision points that really mattered, and... like no other game I have seen in my gaming before or after... it had these truly memorabe "WTF! OMG!" moments that still stand out even years later and back in the day almost made me fall out of my chair laughing because it was just so cool. This game... so much more than any others I played... is really oozing the love and passion that the devs poured into it all over.

It simply has no equal in the genre and I am saying that as someone who enjoyed Wing Commander and Freespace propably just as much as any other person on this board ;) ... and you are dissing it because you didn't like the first third of a second entry in the franchise which was a) quite unrelated storywise to the first game (other than sharing a single character) and b) is generally considered inferior gameplaywise and storywise.

As said before... it's just sad. Imagine we were discussing books... how silly would that be? Dissing a book because the beginning of another, different book by the same author was kinda slow and discussing it with people who actually read the thing and know the entire complex tale? I don't know how to say it any other way.... but, you just do not know what those of us who played these games even talk about. You really don't... and again, that's a shame. They don't make games like these anymore. (Although with the cool stuff made by Indie devs nowadays you never know...  yet, it's doubtful any Indie game could approach the scope of a project like I-War).

Here's the original trailer btw, haven't seen it posted yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kohENjJK7kY
(With some ingame shots and good parts after 4:40)
Second trailer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nazn6iejoVA

Thankfully... the music was much better in the released game :P :)

Title: Re: I-War
Post by: karajorma on December 21, 2011, 09:08:02 am
Seriously Mikes, do yourself a favour and check out Warhead. I think you'd like it.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: CP5670 on December 21, 2011, 10:53:15 am
CP5670, while I certainly can acknowledge your trouble with having no savepoints...  you also must acknowledge that without even having played the first game and with only having played one third of  the second (in direct comparison inferior) game, that it's as futile to discuss the game as it would be futile to discuss a book that you haven't even read or where you only read the first third.

Playing a third of a game is more than enough to get a sense of it and form a considered opinion, especially given the large amount of time I spent with it.

Quote
That I-War 1 was the pinacle of space-sim design is pretty much without question among those who actually played the whole game ;). It had very much everything that is missing in todays mainstream games: complex well thought out gameplay, world building on par with what you otherwise only find in good sci-fi novels, a complex branching storyline with decision points that really mattered, and... like no other game I have seen in my gaming before or after... it had these truly memorabe "WTF! OMG!" moments that still stand out even years later and back in the day almost made me fall out of my chair laughing because it was just so cool. This game... so much more than any others I played... is really oozing the love and passion that the devs poured into it all over.

I would say every one of your comments applied to IWar 2 too, except maybe the branching story. It was an awesome game. And yet, it is not a game that I actually want to play. That's what so infuriating about it. If the game had just sucked all around, I would have given up a lot sooner and wouldn't feel like I was missing anything. :p
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 21, 2011, 11:12:59 am
Seriously Mikes, do yourself a favour and check out Warhead. I think you'd like it.

A fine game, I-War is also a fine game. The commonwealth are a fine force, and Sec-Pat are stupid space hippies.



Commonwealth for life baby :yes:
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: Mikes on December 21, 2011, 12:51:40 pm
Seriously Mikes, do yourself a favour and check out Warhead. I think you'd like it.

That an Amiga Game? Might try to get it to run on my cellphone... although from what I read the control scheme was quite difficult to learn even on the Amiga, which may make it impossible on the phone or tablet with non native controls.
Title: Re: I-War
Post by: karajorma on December 21, 2011, 07:57:49 pm
It's an Amiga and Atari ST game. You'll probably find an ST emulator easier to get running and the Amiga version was a port of the ST version so you won't see much difference between them. You'll really need a keyboard to play though as you need access to all the F-Keys and number keys just to change autopilot mode and weapons.