[Unknown Target]

Or it could just be a bad piloting mistake.

Nope. It really did take that long to get to the mission.

Yea I quit IWar2 when I spent 30 minutes flying to an objective, only to be killed by a randomly spawned raider party. Of course I hadn't saved because you can't save unless you're at your base, and by that point I was also fed up with the whole deal. Looks like CP5670 had the same problem.

Also, the devs made the mistake of giving you the most fun, awesome ship (IMO) in the game, the Storm Petrel, first, and then taking it away from you and never letting you get it back, forcing you to fly a ****ty tug for half the game. Gotta say it was less enjoyable.

The flight dynamics were a ton of fun, though, and I enjoyed the game otherwise.

[zookeeper]

forcing you to fly a ****ty tug for half the game. Gotta say it was less enjoyable.

I sometimes kept flying the tug even after getting better ships because I liked it that much...

[Kszyhu]

It looks like I have higher tolerance for bad game design, because none of those things mattered to me, flying the Patcom was just too fun. Unfortunately, there were some game-stopping bugs, where continuing with campaign was impossible. Oh, and I was annoyed the autopilot trying to take shortcuts through l-points, even when it would take twice as much time as getting to the destination using LDS. By the way, I wonder how many 'long flight time' complaints were based on poor autopilot performance. Stations and l-points had speed limits and 15-km radius LDSi fields, so getting through capsule space involved crawling 15 kms at 250 m/s to the l-point, then waiting in queue, finally jumping, and then crawling those 15 kms again. Flying manually would cut that time considerably.

[Mikes]

Mileage may vary I guess. What strikes me as funny tho that some people consider bad game design in what I would  consider "minor flaws" at best...  I mean... frankly...    I-War had such incredible immersive complex combat and such a cool story, in the case of the first one arguably the best story ever written for a Space Sim,...  (that's gamedesign too, right? And in my eyes the finest in the genre too - by far )  but uh yeah,... let's play something else where travelling is quicker and easier, right!

(Granted though, the second game, while still great,... was (sadly) a much more mainstream game with toned down combat mechanics and (also sadly) an open world with a toned down story and less awesome missions as well. I-War 2 was fun, but it doesn't redefine the genre like I-War 1, which again is a bit sad because it was the sequel and one would expect it to at least match the first games mechanics in complexity.)

[CP5670]

It wasn't just due to the autopilot following the speed limits. I was always breaking those on manual flight. In fact, at one point I started using the warp cheat to get around, and it was still taking forever to get through a mission due to docking delays, waiting at L-points and so on. (all the while worrying about random events that could suddenly kill you at any time and make you start all over)

I haven't played IWar 1 though. If it had short FS-style missions instead of an open world, it might be a lot more fun.

[AtomicClucker]

For a minor update, I'm really getting pissed on the Neutronium Galore mission.

Without giving mission spoilers, I'm tired of trying to shoot temp bridges and soon having "friendlies" return the favor of me saving their Navy asses by blasting the Dreadnought for a hearty thank you.

Any tips on closs cutting surgery?

[Davros]

They attack you because you shot them, you need to only hit the temp bridges
try using missiles for the temp bridges or use the destroy target cheat

I haven't played IWar 1 though. If it had short FS-style missions instead of an open world, it might be a lot more fun.

It sort of does have fs type missions (although not short) there is not really any free roaming content like the piracy stuff in iwar 2, its get mission, complete mission, get next mission

[Herra Tohtori]

I quit I-War 2 EoC when I got to Granma's Lucretia's sweet space station and didn't have a clear notion on what to do next to get the plot moving anywhere. It seemed like I was expected to start doing random piracy/raiding operations using the space station as a base, which I really didn't have much interest in.

So, I did nothing, shut off the game, and never played it again.


Even Orbiter has better plot progression than that game, but maybe I just missed something obvious.

[Unknown Target]

Yea you're pretty much supposed to dick around until you start receiving emails from certain interesting/interested parties (The Stepsons). You do what they ask and that starts the plot moving along.

[Mikes]

Curiously... this thread is making me feel old...   I mean... back in the day gamers at least took their gaming "seriously" and weren't discouraged from enjoying an absolutely fantastic game by some minor technicalities like a lack of savepoints. Right? ... right? LOL

Gotta ask, has the abundance of savepoints in every munchkin game really so spoilt us so much that we can't even enjoy a true masterpiece anymore simply because it lacks them? From what I remember playing I-War 1 and I-War 2 back in the day lack of savepoints or flight times were really never an issue... granted i played differently then, more careful, thinking about what I may run into, having a backup plan...   etc.

... and if i ever did get pasted I just made sure to not get pasted the second time.

Anyways.... you guys are missing out on one of the, if not "the", greatest space-sim franchises ever made...  over..... "savepoints" (you wimps ) , just that there is no doubt about that hehe.

[Wanderer]

I quit I-War 2 EoC when I got to Granma's Lucretia's sweet space station and didn't have a clear notion on what to do next to get the plot moving anywhere. It seemed like I was expected to start doing random piracy/raiding operations using the space station as a base, which I really didn't have much interest in.

So, I did nothing, shut off the game, and never played it again.

It is IIRC said in dialogue in plain English. Attract attention of some higher-end 'dealers' in the area and get into business.

Lack of savepoints was annoying IMHO much less annoying in I-War 1 than in I-War 2. In I-War 2 it really suxored to get accidentally killed by colliding with megafreighter at the L-Point after good 1h long looting mission. Or failing due some menial detail in the 'longer than life' sneaking mission in Dante.

Usually it didn't really matter, with überpimped Adv PatCom with Assault/Gatling Cannons and tons of other goodies there was very little in the game that could challenge you in any manner. Which was also the downside of the game. Every one else is still flying in stock ships or with equipment equivalent roughly to I-War 1 era junk. Capships and fighters were a slightly different case, caps however died swiftly with dual cutting beams and fighters with missiles as hitting the pesky critters was always a chore.

[Grizzly]

Curiously... this thread is making me feel old...   I mean... back in the day gamers at least took their gaming "seriously" and weren't discouraged from enjoying an absolutely fantastic game by some minor technicalities like a lack of savepoints. Right? ... right? LOL

Gotta ask, has the abundance of savepoints in every munchkin game really so spoilt us so much that we can't even enjoy a true masterpiece anymore simply because it lacks them? From what I remember playing I-War 1 and I-War 2 back in the day lack of savepoints or flight times were really never an issue... granted i played differently then, more careful, thinking about what I may run into, having a backup plan...   etc.

... and if i ever did get pasted I just made sure to not get pasted the second time.

Anyways.... you guys are missing out on one of the, if not "the", greatest space-sim franchises ever made...  over..... "savepoints" (you wimps ) , just that there is no doubt about that hehe.

I also thought hte piracy was dull actually.

[Mongoose]

Curiously... this thread is making me feel old...   I mean... back in the day gamers at least took their gaming "seriously" and weren't discouraged from enjoying an absolutely fantastic game by some minor technicalities like a lack of savepoints. Right? ... right? LOL

I think it was just that, back then, we didn't know any better and weren't able to recognize poorly-designed elements like that.

[MatthTheGeek]

Back in the day you probably had a lower (number of games to play)/(free time) ratio. When you have to choose where to dedicate your free time, you quickly focus on well-designed games.

[Mikes]

To me... it sounds more like say...  refusing to go to the best restaurant in town because "it takes a bit longer to get food" there.

Ideally of course you want both... fast service and good food, just like you want games that have awesome gameplay and content + savepoints.... but the point here is, especially as far as I-War 1 is concerned, you are missing out on the possibly best and definitely deepest space-sim ever made.

I can most definitely guarrantee you that - at least from my purely subjective viewpoint - after 20 years of gaming, I-War 1 still stands out as the space-sim with the best gameplay and the best storyline... by far.

That people advocate that a convenience feature like "savepoints" should trump raw gameplay, depth and storyline nowadays is very sad indeed.

i.e. In my eyes very much like dissing a 5 star Steakhouse because you don't get your food as fast as at McDonalds :coughs:

Back in the day you probably had a lower (number of games to play)/(free time) ratio. When you have to choose where to dedicate your free time, you quickly focus on well-designed games.

Actually, what I focus on in my quite limited freetime, are unique experiences, which I find that the mainstream gaming market hardly provides anymore.
I-War was one of these games that was chock full of unique experience that you will literally not find in any other game and that you will still remember after decades.

... short of modders and indie developers todays gaming market just appears to be in short supply of some.... balls.

[phatosealpha]

Never played iWar1.  iWar2 was a blast - had to work around some rough edges though. 

The initial LDS drive you got was painfully slow, yeah.  Fortunately modding that up to a tolerable speed required nothing more then notepad, and didn't affect game balance at all.

And you don't actually have to wait in line at jump points - all you have to do is fly through the right side of it manually once you have the capsule drive.


And screw the storm petrel.  Give me my patcom with cutting beams any day.

[Mongoose]

It's not just "convenience," though.  I've never played the game myself, but from what people are describing, there were instances where an hour's worth of gameplay could be wiped out by a random occurrence, all because the game didn't bother to save your status at any point along the way.  I'm sorry, but that's just a broken design element, and a fairly significant one too.  Absolutely nothing kills my immersion in a game faster than having to replay a significant chunk of it because of a cheap death...I play games to escape from the real world and have some fun, not as an alternate job.

[Mikes]

It's not just "convenience," though.  I've never played the game myself, but from what people are describing, there were instances where an hour's worth of gameplay could be wiped out by a random occurrence, all because the game didn't bother to save your status at any point along the way.  I'm sorry, but that's just a broken design element, and a fairly significant one too.  Absolutely nothing kills my immersion in a game faster than having to replay a significant chunk of it because of a cheap death...I play games to escape from the real world and have some fun, not as an alternate job.

First, what we need to do is to differentiate which of the two games we are talking about.

And frankly... even in the second game, instances of having an "hour's worth of gameplay" wiped out can only be attributed to gross incompetence.
Travelling really isn't *THAT* big of an issue as some people make it out, if you fly manually and properly (instead of using the autopilot which makes you wait in orderly ship ques and observes the speed limit like an old lady). If you travel directly to objectives, complete them and go back to base it really is not *THAT* big of a deal as it is being portrayed here, at least it wasn't to me.

Comparing I-War 1 to I-War 2 I would even say that the second game got quite a bit too easy once you got the Patcom and especially once you had the Corvette. the Corvette with it's (was it 5?) shield projectors was outright "easy mode" compared to the complexity of handling I-War 1's much less forgiving "Dreadnaught" Corvette with it's 1 top and 1 bottom shield projector (each capable of only blocking the fire from a *SINGLE* enemy ship) and it's huge shielding hole up the rear.

I-War 1 was much more of a "sim", or at least that's how it felt to me.... I-War 2, while being an awesome game in it's own way, left me with a bit of an aftertaste of "Alpha 1 powers activate". - in direct comparison to the first game anyways - both games gameplay is still quite a bit more complex than the average "space-sim" ala Freespace or Wing Commander.

[Grizzly]

Note to make here: I-war is probably one of the few games that actually classifies as a space sim, with it having a realistic orbit of planets and a newtonain flight models. Freespace and Wing Commanders are no more space sims then Call of Duty or Brothers in Arms are realistic shooters. We really need another name for it. That Space Sim thing probably derives from Elite.

[Thaeris]

I'm happy to call X-Wing a sim, and FS a sim. However, they're more precisely arcade sims.

I'd love to get I-War some time, though last time I tried getting things off GOG, the transaction simply refused to go through. But yes, truly realistic space sims are generally lacking. Orbiter is of interest to me, though I've not found the time to really learn the software. Space Combat can, like any sim, be "cheated" with in terms of reality and realism, but more so was incomplete and thus limited in scope. Most of the truly realistic sims out there are general sims (like X-Plane or MS Flight), and require a bit of imagination to hold your attention. Most of the time that works on my end, but sometimes one needs a bit more.

Of late, I've been playing with Starshatter. The physics are definately semi-realistic - they're better than FS's semi-newtonian physics, but they're certainly still not perfect. Until Infinity and the iNovae engine comes out, "true space sims" will probably be limited to old games most people don't bother to play with. Which is a shame.