Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Apollo on September 22, 2012, 08:42:03 pm
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I have a question.
Viewed as a cruiser, the UEC Sanctus is quite impressive. It has decent point-defenses, relatively heavy armor, and a good amount of firepower. At close-range, the Sanctus can destroy a Fenris, Leviathan, Hyperion, and even a Deimos. However, the Sanctus is almost as large as a corvette (and its table classifies it as one), and it lacks the armor and extreme resistance to light weaponry that actual corvettes have. When you consider its size (and therefore cost) the Sanctus seems much less powerful.
Now, the Sanctus's tech description says that the Federation built it with enough cargo space to double as a military freighter. I imagine that this accounts for its large size. This makes sense when I consider that the Feds weren't expecting to fight a war, but it still seems like a poor choice. I'm not an expert, but I'd guess that without the large cargo bay, the Sanctus could either be built smaller or built into a true corvette. So, why did the UEF design it that way?
I don't presume to know everything about Blueplanet. There may be some other reason for the Sanctus's size, and I can imagine that BP's writers might have wanted to avoid making the Sanctus as powerful as a Chimera or Bellerophon (since the GTVA is militarily superior to the UEF), or as cheap as a Hyperion. Again, I'm not insulting the mod. It just seemed a little strange the the Federation Navy would limit the Sanctus's effectiveness in that way, even with their Ubuntu philosophy.
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Because for non-wartime going about, having the ability to haul cargo on a well-armed frame is a good thing?
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The Sanctus is only a cruiser because the UEF doesn't have a corvette designation. It is a corvette, just a light one, and is inferior to the Deimos in most cases.\
The reason why it's not heavily armed or armored is because it's an old platform, probably older than Capella, and that pre-return Sol only required policing and counter-terrorism.
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Did you know that right now the United States military is engaged in building a whole horde of cluster**** platforms seriously compromised by their attempts to do everything at once?
My point is not so much that the Sanctus is one of these platforms as it is this: military assets go through a design process in which they are tugged by competing requirements dictated by competing doctrines. If there is anything that screams 'this is a fictional, contrived universe!' it's a universe full of designs that make sense and work together well.
In fact I think this plays into a broader discussion about Blue Planet's fiction. If you read the history of decisive battles like Midway you will find them full of things that seem implausible and nonsensical: admirals arguing each other to a standstill or breaking down in near-tears on their own flag bridges because they misread a message, flights of attack craft missing their targets entirely or wasting time in just such a fashion as to fortuitously strike at the right moment. We want to write FreeSpace fiction that feels naturalistic, and that includes the naturalism of competing factions within a military, political doctrines going in and out of fashion, designs being hashed up by new administrations, admirals making decisions mandated as much by politics as tactical exigency, admirals making decisions that seem (given perfect information) insanely aggressive or risibly timid, whole militaries and nations acting out of needs that from some angles simply boil down to the simple momentum of systems trying to perpetuate themselves. (A lot of the latter was drawn from Rian's studies in political science at MIT.)
Specifically about the Sanctus: it's really not a bad platform. It can even fight pretty well in the right context, when it's not thrown into a heavy-tonnage fight. (The Vatican in Darkest Hour can make an enormous difference!) Consider a peacetime navy trying to sell a spaceframe - 'oh,' they say, 'it can transport troops, and carry sensitive cargo without the need for an escort! We could lease it out and help the economy! And look, it's so big, we can sell the spaceframes off for just about anything when we don't need them any more!'
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Wasn't there something about a wartime upgrade of the Sanctus?
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Wasn't there something about a wartime upgrade of the Sanctus?
The Sanctus has a wartime configuration, but I'm not sure how big of a modification it is.
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Wasn't there something about a wartime upgrade of the Sanctus?
The Sanctus has a wartime configuration, but I'm not sure how big of a modification it is.
Yeah, I suppose this is probably the heart of the OP's question. If the Sanctus has all these benefits as a peacetime design, why not utilize that extra space in wartime for things like more armament, armor, limited carrier capacity, Karuna-level torpedo spam, electronic warfare, or whatever? In the 18 months the 1st and 2nd Fleets had while the Jovians held the line, why didn't they give the Sanctus a much-needed refit?
In terms of capability, a Sanctus is like a corvette-sized cruiser, but one with good point defenses. It works well in a supporting role, but not as well as a Deimos or, arguably, an Aeolus. While its overall design makes a lot of sense in the setting and the faction, I would think that even the UEF could turn the Sanctus into a stronger beast if given 18 months and extensive info about the enemy's capabilities.
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That's assuming that they a) didn't do that, that b) the GTVA would not prioritize such uprated cruisers, and, of course, c) that all you can see as a player is all there is to see, and of course, that there is yard space available to do the necessary modifications in the first place.
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Actually, I think that the Sanctii (is that right?) you see are actually updated from their peacetime configuration, but those changes are relatively minor, whatever could be done in the field. The wartime configuration is a much more serious refit, with much stronger weapons.
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Well yeah. Remember most of the UEF frigates weren't even really loaded with live ammunition by the time the UEF received the first probes from GTVA space. I would be surprised if most Sanctus cruisers in activity were equipped with Warhammers in their peacetime configurations.
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That's assuming that they a) didn't do that, that b) the GTVA would not prioritize such uprated cruisers, and, of course, c) that all you can see as a player is all there is to see, and of course, that there is yard space available to do the necessary modifications in the first place.
Wouldn't that make Sanctus cruisers notably space-inefficient? Although, come to think of it, Custos patrol boats are much larger than Cretheus patrol boats, and all they have to show for it is a pair of slow-firing, low-grade torpedo launchers (oh, wait; ECM capability. That might be the big difference).
Well yeah. Remember most of the UEF frigates weren't even really loaded with live ammunition by the time the UEF received the first probes from GTVA space. I would be surprised if most Sanctus cruisers in activity were equipped with Warhammers in their peacetime configurations.
Point taken. I guess the confusion comes from the differences between the Karuna and Sanctus (in their wartime configurations), given the differences in size and capability/armament.
It kind of makes me that much more appreciative of the Orion design--it became by far the best capital ship brawler in the GTVA by mounting 6 heavy beams without any noticeable sacrifices outside of some warhead interception capability. (wait, isn't the Orion class about 66 years old at this point? Holy crap, that's amazing.)
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Yap. They're also nearly all decommissioned, aside from the Carthage and definitely not more than one or two others.
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That's still a testament to the adaptability of the basic design.
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Pretty much the only thing left from the original Carthage is the skeleton and the nameplate. The other Orions in service either serve in this kind of role, or as backwater system guards, in case you can't have the fighters fly off an Arcadia or a planetary base.
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there is a lot of wrong information about how the GTVA employs its orions in the above posts; they still have the equivalent of Surface Action Groups, special taskings built around Orions
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In many ways, the Raynor/Titan combo is a refinement of the Hecate/Orion combo of earlier times; while there probably are no new Orions being built, they would only be decommissioned when the replacement has finished its acceptance trials. Also note that decommissioning does not mean "sent to the breakers", mothballing them is a much more likely thing for the GTVA to do (after all, the Orion has some sentimental value attached to it, and unlike the Battleships of WW2, their combat role hasn't disappeared).
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So, in case of a future invasion...will the Orions be used as fire ships or to bolster the rear guard?
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So, in case of a future invasion...will the Orions be used as fire ships or to bolster the rear guard?
I suspect it would in part depend on the level and type of opposition and how their deployment would benefit the GTVA battle line but I suspect their biggest usage would be rear guard work, stick one behind a friendly jump node and those beams have a nice view of the enemies engines as they jump in with minimal chance of return fire.
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In case of a future invasion, as in Shivan invasion ? If the GTVA gets to there, and have failed to contain the threat, then they'd have already lost and any surviving Orion would probably be used to carry refugees for an exodus.
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Use 'em as node busters, like the Bastion.
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In case of a future invasion, as in Shivan invasion ? If the GTVA gets to there, and have failed to contain the threat, then they'd have already lost and any surviving Orion would probably be used to carry refugees for an exodus.
Touchée my friend, I admit, I thought about some other large scale war...not against the Shivans...strange^^
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Use 'em as node busters, like the Bastion.
I would be surprised if the GTVA didn't have dedicated ships built or converted for that purpose on standby either gathered in Delta-Serp or scattered amongst the various fleet home bases ready to deploy.
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Yeah, actually I think that's what they would do too, except keep them in the outer systems. Still, it's just that we've already seen how well old Orions works as meson bomb boxes, and as they get more and more obsolete it seems like as good a use as any. Actually, might be a good job for Fenrii, since they're pretty worthless. :p
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Nice in theory, but a single mesonbomb is larger than a Fenris and the Bastion was stuffed full of these things...
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A lot of single bombs are larger than the Wright flier, too, but planes still drop bombs. If there's one thing the BP crew has shown, it's that neither side is technologically stagnant.
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Nice in theory, but a single mesonbomb is larger than a Fenris and the Bastion was stuffed full of these things...
not so sure about that, yes the model is bigger but there is a lot of crash protection type framework in there and I think the actual bomb is spherical bit in the middle so is about 1/3rd of the model size so you could get probably 2 in a Fenris. also as stated in Scotty's post tech is ever developing and I get the impression that the FS2 mesons were not far beyond proof of concept prototype stage of development and 18 years is a long time to refine the design.
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You don't seem to appreciate the scale here.
Unless I'm misinterpreting the commandbriefing animation, the Bastion didn't just have 4 or 5 or even two dozens of meson bombs on board. It was stuffed with more than 60 of them (and the animation showed a form that looked like a meson bomb with the struts, which indicates they are more than just framework).
Even if you are right about a Fenris being able to house two of the old meson bombs and the GTVA could now build them at half the size (which would be an impressive accomplishment in itself) that would still mean only 4 bombs per Fenris and thus you'd need to send at least 15 of those meson Fenrises into the node at the same time and detonate them simultaniously.
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Converting the Fenris into a meson bomb fire ship is one way to make the thing useful again. Boost its engine power and you're set, just probably not for collapsing nodes.
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Even if you are right about a Fenris being able to house two of the old meson bombs and the GTVA could now build them at half the size (which would be an impressive accomplishment in itself) that would still mean only 4 bombs per Fenris and thus you'd need to send at least 15 of those meson Fenrises into the node at the same time and detonate them simultaniously.
I have no idea at all where you're coming up with this number. We have no confirmation whether the Bastion was packed with the bare minimum required, or if it was massively, massively, massively overstocked with explosives for the job.
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Didn't we blow up the Knossos with just two bombs? Or three if you count the one that failed.
However the Shivans have been known to use uncharted jump nodes or ones too unstable for us to travel in. With all the systems in GTVA control, there's gotta be a few unknown access points to Shivan controlled systems, so I can't imagine that bombing a node is a strategy they're relying on too heavily.
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Didn't we blow up the Knossos with just two bombs? Or three if you count the one that failed.
Yes, and that toooootally prevented the Shivans to pass through the node regardless.
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Didn't we blow up the Knossos with just two bombs? Or three if you count the one that failed.
Yes, and that toooootally prevented the Shivans to pass through the node regardless.
How much of that was because the bomb detonated in realspace rather then while transiting between or in subspace. While the Bastion briefing does indicate more than 3, how important is the fact that the ship is transiting into subspace?
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Valid questions, but they have no definite answers. All we have is wild speculation.
The amount of required meson bombs is ultimately irrelevant. The GTVA knows they can't defeat the Shivans militarily, they know destroying nodes is the best way to keep them away from their core systems, and they know a sufficient amount of meson bombs can destroy nodes. Hence you can be pretty sure they have produced stockpiles of node-busting meson bombs for that purpose and are ready to deploy them should the need arise.
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Even if you are right about a Fenris being able to house two of the old meson bombs and the GTVA could now build them at half the size (which would be an impressive accomplishment in itself) that would still mean only 4 bombs per Fenris and thus you'd need to send at least 15 of those meson Fenrises into the node at the same time and detonate them simultaniously.
I have no idea at all where you're coming up with this number. We have no confirmation whether the Bastion was packed with the bare minimum required, or if it was massively, massively, massively overstocked with explosives for the job.
I'm coming up with the number by counting the red mesonbomb symbols in the commanbriefing animation telling you about the Bastion blowing up the node.
Sure we do not know how many of those where actually necessary, but I really don't think that the GTVA would use a fifteen times as big safety margin from what they calculated to be enough to blow the node.
And considering the importance of jumpnodes, the number of bombs sufficient to seal one isn't exactly something that you can just test out.
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Even if you are right about a Fenris being able to house two of the old meson bombs and the GTVA could now build them at half the size (which would be an impressive accomplishment in itself) that would still mean only 4 bombs per Fenris and thus you'd need to send at least 15 of those meson Fenrises into the node at the same time and detonate them simultaniously.
I have no idea at all where you're coming up with this number. We have no confirmation whether the Bastion was packed with the bare minimum required, or if it was massively, massively, massively overstocked with explosives for the job.
I'm coming up with the number by counting the red mesonbomb symbols in the commanbriefing animation telling you about the Bastion blowing up the node.
Sure we do not know how many of those where actually necessary, but I really don't think that the GTVA would use a fifteen times as big safety margin from what they calculated to be enough to blow the node.
And considering the importance of jumpnodes, the number of bombs sufficient to seal one isn't exactly something that you can just test out.
given that the GTVA was operating a 1 in 3 failure rate when blasting the knossos that would mean you would need 1 redundent bomb for every 2 needed, given that these were probably built in a hurry compared to the ones used previously (if my understandign that they are still prototype weapons and thus not previously built in any notable number) then you will probably want a bigger safety margine.
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They might have built special very armored freighters with meson bombs in it, ready to be deployed next to every single GTVA node (or -somewhat- near any space station next to the nodes). They might have created a "Meson Protocol" ready for action, the moment the Shivans start to appear again.
Other kinds of freighters specially designed for quick evac from planet annihilation might have been also built. The "Meson Protocol" would comprise of both the placement of the bomb, the coordination of these special evac freighters that could be (perhaps) stationed in multiple places around every planet ready to take off at all times, along with all the emergency management of all the people in the planets for really fast procedures.
Instead of taking hours, days for evac, a designed procedure with lots of resources poured into it would minimize the time to several minutes, perhaps one or two hours before all the evac freighters are leaving their planets. Not only the populations would massively require some sort of this kind of planning, the military would also pretty much want this to happen, for the losses suffered against the Shivans trying to slow them down while the populations evacuate in the events leading to the Cappella incident were tremendous.
edit: wait, I read the title and realize, this is extremely off topic!! Sorry
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I asked Battuta (who seems to have changed his forum name for some reason) about that and he confirmed that the GTVA have dedicated meson bomb ships for node collapses. We just haven't seen them yet.
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I asked Battuta (who seems to have changed his forum name for some reason) about that and he confirmed that the GTVA have dedicated meson bomb ships for node collapses. We just haven't seen them yet.
You shouldn't count on anything that's not in a released campaign or piece of fiction. Also this was inflicted upon me by Goob
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Converting the Fenris into a meson bomb fire ship is one way to make the thing useful again. Boost its engine power and you're set, just probably not for collapsing nodes.
Worst idea ever. The Fenris is about as durable as a wet paper bag. They wouldn't even get remotely close to a target. The only reason the Bastion did its job was the fact it had 3 Aeolus' as cover and Alpha 1 since their wingmen are about useless.
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I always thought they basically just took ALL the meson bombs and put half in the Bastion and half in the Nereid so they'd have the best possible chance of blowing the nodes. It was an all or nothing gamble. I mean think if for example, it takes the yield of 55 bombs to blow a node. You load up 60 bombs and just barely make it, sweet. Or you load up 10-20 bombs since you don't want to be wasteful, you don't blow the node, and now oh **** I don't have enough bombs to blow ANY nodes and I can't build more of them fast enough to stop the shivan rush. (In which case I guess you could try and pull a Good Luck II and kill a Sath in transit, which would actually be pretty cool.)
Regarding the Fenris idea, like most of the things argued about here, it doesn't really matter because it can be fluffed either way. Maybe there are higher yield meson bombs in the future. Maybe with further subspace research, the GTVA found that yeah, five bombs would have actually been enough. Maybe you can jacket a meson warhead in whatever subspace drives are made out of and it emits tons of [REDACTED]-rays, which destabilize nodes way more than a conventional explosion. Or maybe not.
Converting the Fenris into a meson bomb fire ship is one way to make the thing useful again. Boost its engine power and you're set, just probably not for collapsing nodes.
Worst idea ever. The Fenris is about as durable as a wet paper bag. They wouldn't even get remotely close to a target. The only reason the Bastion did its job was the fact it had 3 Aeolus' as cover and Alpha 1 since their wingmen are about useless.
Hardly. Once again, you could fluff this in a way that still reasonably fits in the FS-verse. They could be up-armored Fenris hulls (which also doesn't necessarily make them Levis either, it's not a binary choice...). You could inject all the crew areas with the stuff warships use for in-field repairs, since no one's going to be living there anymore. You could also just not wait for things to get as bad as they were at the end of FS2 before deploying your node busters.
Whatever. It's more worthwhile to poke holes in other peoples' ideas than to try and see how they could work.
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Shock jumping fire ships for the win.
"Nah, it's only a Fenris" BOOM
This would be funny I guess.
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Converting the Fenris into a meson bomb fire ship is one way to make the thing useful again. Boost its engine power and you're set, just probably not for collapsing nodes.
Worst idea ever. The Fenris is about as durable as a wet paper bag. They wouldn't even get remotely close to a target. The only reason the Bastion did its job was the fact it had 3 Aeolus' as cover and Alpha 1 since their wingmen are about useless.
So use a long range AWACS to get precise jump vectors, and jump the Fenris in right on top of the enemy, like a 200m long SSM. Or use one as area denial. Or use on distracted enemy warships. Seriously, a fire ship this powerful could have many, many uses.
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Shock jumping fire ships for the win.
"Nah, it's only a Fenris" BOOM
This would be funny I guess.
where's JAD when you need them :drevil:
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Oooooh, meson kamikaze fenrii. I'm sold.
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Converting the Fenris into a meson bomb fire ship is one way to make the thing useful again. Boost its engine power and you're set, just probably not for collapsing nodes.
Worst idea ever. The Fenris is about as durable as a wet paper bag. They wouldn't even get remotely close to a target. The only reason the Bastion did its job was the fact it had 3 Aeolus' as cover and Alpha 1 since their wingmen are about useless.
So use a long range AWACS to get precise jump vectors, and jump the Fenris in right on top of the enemy, like a 200m long SSM. Or use one as area denial. Or use on distracted enemy warships. Seriously, a fire ship this powerful could have many, many uses.
considering the 5km fighter-kill radius of the meson's anyhow :p
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Hrmm with that big a radius if you were able to cloak a meson warhead from sensors somehow, like a Pegasus for instance, they'd make for excellent mines. If one went unnoticed anywhere near an enemy formation then you could literally blow every enemy fighter out of the air instantly as soon as they're deployed.
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A big problem with meson bombs is that they take a really long time to blow up and they're very obvious about it. I'm not just talking about the deathroll; it takes a while to go from 'welp, this bomb is turning on' to the moment of 'the firing sequence has now reached the point of no return'.
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A big problem with meson bombs is that they take a really long time to blow up and they're very obvious about it. I'm not just talking about the deathroll; it takes a while to go from 'welp, this bomb is turning on' to the moment of 'the firing sequence has now reached the point of no return'.
If it's sequence is determinable, the usage of a Fenris as a shock jump bomb in-your-face is still feasible. You just count to ten (or twenty or whatever) before making the appropriate subspace jump.
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Definitely a good idea, but the GTVA's failure to do so back during A Flaming Sword militates against it.
In general we are going to cherrypick canon information to make meson fireships useful in specific strategies but not a great general-purpose kaboom option. If the Tevs pull off a meson surprise it'll be because Steele figured out something clever. ;)
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In general we are going to cherrypick canon information to make meson fireships useful in specific strategies but not a great general-purpose kaboom option. If the Tevs pull off a meson surprise it'll be because Steele figured out something clever. ;)
I like you when you leak like that. Juicy.
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Definitely a good idea, but the GTVA's failure to do so back during A Flaming Sword militates against it.
In general we are going to cherrypick canon information to make meson fireships useful in specific strategies but not a great general-purpose kaboom option. If the Tevs pull off a meson surprise it'll be because Steele figured out something clever. ;)
Does this imply that there are ALREADY meson fireships to be used by the GTVA in WiH2? :D
And ninja'd
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In many ways, the Raynor/Titan combo is a refinement of the Hecate/Orion combo of earlier times; while there probably are no new Orions being built, they would only be decommissioned when the replacement has finished its acceptance trials. Also note that decommissioning does not mean "sent to the breakers", mothballing them is a much more likely thing for the GTVA to do (after all, the Orion has some sentimental value attached to it, and unlike the Battleships of WW2, their combat role hasn't disappeared).
Absolutely. Especially with regards to the Titan, I've always had the impression that the next gen destroyers were all about combining the best of the Orion and Hecate designs and taking lessons learned into account. Were it not for the threat of dozens of Sathanas juggernauts overshadowing the threat posed by any other Shivan fleet composition, even the Raynor would be an excellent next-gen line combatant and brawler.
And the Orion class is just...man, I imagine even the Vasudans would have a lot of sentimental attachment to the Orion. Between the Galatea, Bastion (both in Great War and Second Incursion), Nereid, Carthage, and Orions that brought down the Hades, they've helped the Vasudans a lot more than anything the class did during the T-V War. Hell, the Galatea's final mission was a desperate stand against the Eva and Lucifer to buy time for Vasuda Prime's evacuation (and it succeeded in destroying the Eva, to boot); the Bastion protected refugee convoys from Vasuda Prime after it was glassed by the Lucifer, destroyed another Demon, and ultimately saved the Alliance when it brought the Lucifer down. Then it sacrificed itself to seal the nodes from Capella (along with the Nereid). Oh, and the Bastion's pursuit of the Lucifer had a number of Vasudan wings operate from the Bastion as well, which is all kinds of interesting. Makes me wish there were more custcenes with Vasudan and Terran pilots in the same briefing room.
The fact that it still actively serves as a frontline destroyer class (even if heavily modified), at least 66 years after its debut, is just awesome.
Definitely a good idea, but the GTVA's failure to do so back during A Flaming Sword militates against it.
In general we are going to cherrypick canon information to make meson fireships useful in specific strategies but not a great general-purpose kaboom option. If the Tevs pull off a meson surprise it'll be because Steele figured out something clever. ;)
Does this imply that there are ALREADY meson fireships to be used by the GTVA in WiH2? :D
And ninja'd
Sorry, but what exactly is meant by 'meson fireships'? Are we talking about large ships stuffed with Meson warheads for node-sealing purposes, or a ship that utilizes meson bombs (...or just meson beams? Confused...) as a primary armament?
If the former, well, I'd imagine the GTVA would place a heavy premium on that stuff. If the Shivans have potentially endless numbers, the only lasting, effective counter is sealing off nodes that Shivans do (or might) come from. And its probably a tactic that the Shivans wouldn't be driven to 'humanity and zods need to be exterminated' mentalities over (after all, nothing quite says "We really aren't some aggressive, destroying empire" like sealing off nodes to new systems that you might try to conquer).
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Sorry, but what exactly is meant by 'meson fireships'? Are we talking about large ships stuffed with Meson warheads for node-sealing purposes, or a ship that utilizes meson bombs (...or just meson beams? Confused...) as a primary armament?
We dont tend to see them used in modern day warfare but the term fireship was coined to describe ancient through to colonial era wooden ships, usually obsolite or where crews can't be found, which were set on file and rigged to sail into the enemy's formation in an attempt to as a minimum break up their battle line and preferibly set some of their ships on fire.
in the context of a "Meson Fireship" it is a ship loaded up with meson warheads and set to ram a signifficant enemy ship in the hopes that when the fireship detonates it will destroy or cause significan damage.
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Think GTCv Argentus at the end of Derelict.
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Or that one Aten, stuffed with explosives that tried to ram the Galaea, only with the kind of explosives that will instantly vaporize any fighter within 5 kilometers and do significant damage to capships, even if it just explodes close by.
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Have the GTVA developed autopilots that can move a ship in a straight line for a few hundred metres since the Argentus or do meson fireships still require the pointless sacrifice of a crew
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I'm pretty sure the Argentus was uncrewed.
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Have the GTVA developed autopilots that can move a ship in a straight line for a few hundred metres since the Argentus or do meson fireships still require the pointless sacrifice of a crew
given the state of remote and computer control today I would say that it should be a relitively simple affair to rig a ship for remote control or to use preset peramiters to guide the ship in though
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IIRC there's a transmission from the Argentus saying how they hope their sacrifice was not in vain, which of course it was because they could've achieved a similar result by leaving a brick on the accelerator. The lack of autopilot in the FS universe is so conspicuous it's best just to ignore it (bombers requiring a trained pilot to afterburn towards a target and pull the secondary fire trigger a few times are another instance).
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IIRC there's a transmission from the Argentus saying how they hope their sacrifice was not in vain, which of course it was because they could've achieved a similar result by leaving a brick on the accelerator. The lack of autopilot in the FS universe is so conspicuous it's best just to ignore it (bombers requiring a trained pilot to afterburn towards a target and pull the secondary fire trigger a few times are another instance).
At least with bombers you have the excuse of susceptibility to electronic warfare. Though I can't remember a case of the Shivans doing anything like electronic warfare, so...?
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IIRC there's a transmission from the Argentus saying how they hope their sacrifice was not in vain, which of course it was because they could've achieved a similar result by leaving a brick on the accelerator. The lack of autopilot in the FS universe is so conspicuous it's best just to ignore it (bombers requiring a trained pilot to afterburn towards a target and pull the secondary fire trigger a few times are another instance).
At least with bombers you have the excuse of susceptibility to electronic warfare. Though I can't remember a case of the Shivans doing anything like electronic warfare, so...?
I suppose EW plays a part in the early stages of the Great War, it's just not specifically mentioned, with the Shivan craft being undetectable until crates containing shivan electronics are scanned to get a look at the signature of Shivan systems
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Maybe the figures that, if it doesn't work against the Vasudans, it won't work against the technologically superiour Shivans either, so we better put our ressources into other projects.
Or maybe all those ridiculously overpowered weapons (nuclear yield furies for example) are causing so much interference, that they make a proper remote controll on the battlefield impossible.
Though neither possibility would explain why they don't just programm an attack course into a drone. If you leave out any wireless interface and allow the drone only to be programmed by pluggin in a cable, it would make it impossible to be hacked (though it would also prevent emergency shutdown commands to be sent to the dones...).
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Maybe the figures that, if it doesn't work against the Vasudans, it won't work against the technologically superiour Shivans either, so we better put our ressources into other projects.
Or maybe all those ridiculously overpowered weapons (nuclear yield furies for example) are causing so much interference, that they make a proper remote controll on the battlefield impossible.
Though neither possibility would explain why they don't just programm an attack course into a drone. If you leave out any wireless interface and allow the drone only to be programmed by pluggin in a cable, it would make it impossible to be hacked (though it would also prevent emergency shutdown commands to be sent to the dones...).
though there seems to be very little remote comms interference seen in the games so that might not be an issue
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If drones are impossible, why the Diomedes as drone controller?
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Because Aesaar added drone racks to the Dio doesn't mean the BP team will use it that way.
Doesn't mean they won't, either ! Drones have been confirmed before. The way they'll be used however is still up to debate.
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Actually, Battuta (IIRC, it was him) sort of confirmed that, stating that BP will need the drone racks. It was the whole reason they were added in first place, I noticed that the new model is missing it's forward docks, and after I pointed that out, Battuta asked Aesar to add them.
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Because Aesaar added drone racks to the Dio doesn't mean the BP team will use it that way.
Oh, ****, yes. Please maintain all the dockpoints from the original Diomedes, those are very important to some capabilities in R2 (external drone racks)
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There will be drone bombers with semi-new ordnance. This solves both a fluff problem for the GTVA (we can't keep sending in all these bombers that just explode and die, also the Cyclops is wooorthless against the UEF) and a gameplay problem (these gunships just tear up everything in front of them, how do we provide enough targets to be fun without making the GTVA look like morons?)
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If drones are impossible, why the Diomedes as drone controller?
Advances of controll, communication and/or autopilot technologies in the course of the last 32 years since the 2nd Shivan incursion (the time period I was talking about... which I forgot to mention in my post).
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If drones are impossible, why the Diomedes as drone controller?
Because BP and Derelict are part of two separate continuities?
Unless Derelict is BP canon, which I doubt. While we have a few references, like the 212th Silver Scythes, I think the events of Derelict would warrant a big mention in the BP fiction.
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At the mention of drones, will there be obligatory drones swarms to torment us?
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If drones are impossible, why the Diomedes as drone controller?
Because BP and Derelict are part of two separate continuities?
Unless Derelict is BP canon, which I doubt. While we have a few references, like the 212th Silver Scythes, I think the events of Derelict would warrant a big mention in the BP fiction.
Man, this was a simple question, just to point out.
If there are drones in R2(which Batutta confirmed) fine,
if not, I don't give another thought about it, 'cause unlike other people around, I don't question every single bit of this mod.
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Questioning every single bit of this mod is actually a good thing, since it provokes interesting discussion. BP universe has been given a lot of thought, much more than most "big budget" universes. This lets the team know that their attention to details paid off.
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If drones are impossible, why the Diomedes as drone controller?
Because BP and Derelict are part of two separate continuities?
Unless Derelict is BP canon, which I doubt. While we have a few references, like the 212th Silver Scythes, I think the events of Derelict would warrant a big mention in the BP fiction.
Man, this was a simple question, just to point out.
... and that was a simple answer ?
What are you on about.
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THx to you Mister Smart ass, there won't be many people who dares to point out anything :rolleyes:
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Hang on for a second. Crizza, there is no need for you to be all hurt about this. You misunderstood something, or were unaware of something we said publically, and Aesaar corrected you on that. Nowhere in this were you ever actually attacked, or been subject to insult. So please stop acting as if you were insulted.
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There will be drone bombers with semi-new ordnance. This solves both a fluff problem for the GTVA (we can't keep sending in all these bombers that just explode and die, also the Cyclops is wooorthless against the UEF) and a gameplay problem (these gunships just tear up everything in front of them, how do we provide enough targets to be fun without making the GTVA look like morons?)
That sounded to me, as if there will be drones in R2 and the Diomedes will be act as drone controller.
And I don't feel hurt or something, just annoyed about Maths matter of fact style.