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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Aesaar on September 23, 2012, 07:08:41 pm

Title: The UEF mole
Post by: Aesaar on September 23, 2012, 07:08:41 pm
We know that Carey was the GTVA mole that gave the UEF the Agincourt's jump schedule, but there's another mole in WiH: the person who gave Steele the information about the UEF - Vasudan meeting.

Quote from: Deals in Shadows debriefing
The mission was compromised from the start. Someone in the Federation leaked the details of the secret negotiations to Admiral Steele. He was ready.

So who was responsible?

It would have to be someone who knew the exact details of the proceedings.  So who does that include?  Simms, Laporte, and our 3 admirals, certainly.  Who else?

Commence speculation!  Let's pin this mole down, people.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: CT27 on September 23, 2012, 08:23:33 pm
Just throwing another name out there:

Captain Lloyd Sorenson?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: NGTM-1R on September 23, 2012, 08:35:21 pm
The debriefing, as an in-universe document, can contain errors. Being ready does not necessarily equate to the op being compromised.

It also dismisses out of hand the possibility that the operation was compromised by a Vasudan, which seems much more likely than that it was compromised by a UEF officer.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: General Battuta on September 23, 2012, 08:41:06 pm
The debriefing, as an in-universe document, can contain errors. Being ready does not necessarily equate to the op being compromised.

It also dismisses out of hand the possibility that the operation was compromised by a Vasudan, which seems much more likely than that it was compromised by a UEF officer.

Somebody got an agent aboard the UEF VIP transport, though.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Scotty on September 23, 2012, 09:29:17 pm
Given the alacrity at which the Vasudan captain acted and unilaterally broke off the proceedings, I'd be inclined to think that the Vasudan leak is likely.  That said, it need not be exclusively Vasudan in nature.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: CT27 on September 23, 2012, 10:58:08 pm
FS1's Alpha 1?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: swashmebuckle on September 23, 2012, 11:21:41 pm
Bosch
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on September 23, 2012, 11:26:57 pm
FS1's Alpha 1?

He's in his early to mid 70s. Unless you believe an old man would be monitored by the Council and simultaneously be a sellout.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Suongadon on September 23, 2012, 11:52:43 pm
What about Elder Henriksson? Seems too convenient that the best person for the job would happen to be too sick, and she has ties to Netreba and the Vasudans.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: An4ximandros on September 24, 2012, 12:05:08 am
Who in the UEF could possibly want to betray them... hmph, it's sad we don't have details on the CofEe itself. (:p)

But if it REALLY was a UEF leak, it would really undermine admiral Steele's character, it seems more likely that the Vasudan Admiral, who was a friend of Steele, told him about the nature of his mission
and Steele got to work as soon as he told him it would be safer if he attended on a Destroyer (he was supposed to come on a light ship from what I remember.)
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Drogoth on September 24, 2012, 12:42:05 am
Vasudan members of the Fedayeen? The ones that came through with FS1 Alpha 1?

Maybe they aren't so cool with the UEF, having seen the darker side, and are determined that their brethren not ally themselves with a council that would use the Fedayeen?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on September 24, 2012, 01:17:30 am
Something tells me there should have been a background check on all the crew escorting the Elder. And shouldn't Netreba's intelligence guys be at some sort of fault?

Vasudan members of the Fedayeen? The ones that came through with FS1 Alpha 1?

There's only 4, assuming they all lived (which should be part of the Bastion Twenty, 4 each from Alpha, Beta, and Epsilon, 8 from Delta).

Who in the UEF could possibly want to betray them... hmph, it's sad we don't have details on the CofEe itself. (:p)

SOC rats from the 14th? Some shadow from the Gaian Effort?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: headdie on September 24, 2012, 01:33:59 am
Could also be a GTVA loyalist on the Vasudan Admiral's staff who alerted Steele
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: -Norbert- on September 24, 2012, 01:37:43 am
We know that Carey was the GTVA mole that gave the UEF the Agincourt's jump schedule, but there's another mole in WiH: the person who gave Steele the information about the UEF - Vasudan meeting.
Are you really so sure it was Carey herself who gave away the information.
I always assumed that, when Carey gave the UEF informatinon, she did so in a way that didn't give away her identity (I certainly wouldn't want to broadcast my identity to someone I'm not 100% sure I can trust over a transmission that might be intercepted), not even to the UEF. And thus, after she was discovered and caught, the GTVA could just send someone acting the same way Carey did, but giving out misinformation, without the UEF ever noticing the difference untill it's too late.

I know Careys interrogation hints at the GTVA doing brainwashing, but considering how little time passed between Carey giving the real information and the mole giving out the bait, I think Carey still being in the brainwash camp and someone else contacting the UEF through her channels is more likely than her being turned so quickly and completely.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: The E on September 24, 2012, 02:48:20 am
Quote
Are you really so sure it was Carey herself who gave away the information.

Carey leaked information that led to the Agincourt's capture. Which is why she was arrested (reference: Conversations from WiH). What happened to that channel after that, I will leave to your imagination.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: -Norbert- on September 24, 2012, 10:14:30 am
That's exactly what I was getting at.
We are looking for GTVA sympatisizer working against the UEF here, right?
Carey was the exact opposit, before she was caught and wether she was the one to sell out the UEF after isn't clear, though I dout it for the reasons stated above.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: redsniper on September 24, 2012, 10:24:55 am
Zods.

It was the Jester.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Alex Heartnet on September 24, 2012, 11:31:56 am
I know Careys interrogation hints at the GTVA doing brainwashing, but considering how little time passed between Carey giving the real information and the mole giving out the bait, I think Carey still being in the brainwash camp and someone else contacting the UEF through her channels is more likely than her being turned so quickly and completely.

Brainwashing can be done swiftly in the future?  Think about it - advanced sci-fi technology combined with centuries worth of neuroscience and brainwashing research would add up to some rather terrifying potential to do this sort of thing quickly.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: CT27 on September 24, 2012, 03:21:07 pm
FS1's Alpha 1?

He's in his early to mid 70s. Unless you believe an old man would be monitored by the Council and simultaneously be a sellout.

You think there's a greater chance it's one of the three admirals like the OP guessed?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Aesaar on September 24, 2012, 04:14:03 pm
You think there's a greater chance it's one of the three admirals like the OP guessed?

I didn't say it was any of the Admirals.  They are suspects, though.

It's worth noting that Calder is just as likely as FS1 Alpha 1.  He's also a former GTA officer.

Hmm, he is quite dissatisfied with the Elders, too.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: -Norbert- on September 24, 2012, 05:34:55 pm
If it was Calder, he would have plenty of opportunities to defect already.
Imagine the moral blow (not to mention losing one third of their destroyers) if that would have happened. Compared to that the loss of the wargods is like a summer picknick.
And I highly doubt Calder would have been unable to fill his ship with enough likeminded people to comandeer the ship and take it straight to Neptune.

He might be fed up with the way the war was fought (or rather not fought), but I got the imige that he's still a feverent believer in the UEF's cause.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Black_Yoshi1230 on September 24, 2012, 05:52:26 pm
You think there's a greater chance it's one of the three admirals like the OP guessed?

I didn't say it was any of the Admirals.  They are suspects, though.

It's worth noting that Calder is just as likely as FS1 Alpha 1.  He's also a former GTA officer.

Hmm, he is quite dissatisfied with the Elders, too.

As far as I read, only Netreba has a known intelligence section in the UEF (though I believe Telfer or Simms said that). Someone under him may be a rat. Calder and Netreba are both dissatisfied with the Elders' course, and wanted to take hard-pressed action (even hoping to wreak as much havoc in the time that the Agincourt was under Federation control, and hopefully wanting to use it as their mobile supply post, but that was reserved for something that was classified on a need-to-know basis way beyond my clearance).
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: An4ximandros on September 24, 2012, 06:24:59 pm
Maybe Calder and Netreba are actually dancing to the SHIVishnANS tune? Maybe they don't want the council to make peace with the evil forces of the GTVA and their dark lord Steele and his master!
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: CT27 on September 24, 2012, 07:23:21 pm
Or, as some have hinted at before, maybe Admiral Recamai himself?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 24, 2012, 08:00:43 pm
It was Taudigani. She felt that Laporte would benefit from a good character-building unsolved mystery.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: An4ximandros on September 24, 2012, 08:37:34 pm
I figured it out!

It was obviously the enemies of our enemy!
Spoiler:
The same that sends you that transmission, the hammer of light!
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Drogoth on September 24, 2012, 10:27:12 pm
Oh please let it be the HoL.

They need to make a come back.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Aesaar on September 24, 2012, 10:39:25 pm
That would actually be pretty cool.

I doubt it's the case, but it would be pretty cool.  The Vasudamns are the only ones with pretty much everything going right.

EDIT: Totally leaving that typo in.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: yuezhi on September 24, 2012, 10:41:03 pm
FS1's Alpha 1?
It was me! ;)
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Droid803 on September 24, 2012, 10:55:55 pm
Have any of you considered...an actual mole.
I haven't.

I don't know what I'm thinking lately.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: SaltyWaffles on September 25, 2012, 12:45:18 am
The debriefing, as an in-universe document, can contain errors. Being ready does not necessarily equate to the op being compromised.

It also dismisses out of hand the possibility that the operation was compromised by a Vasudan, which seems much more likely than that it was compromised by a UEF officer.

Somebody got an agent aboard the UEF VIP transport, though.

Yeah, that part still baffles me a bit. It's one thing for the meeting location to be compromised--Vasudans, easy explanation. But how did they find out which ship was going to be used? How did they get aboard? How did they get a pocket nuke aboard, and in Engineering?

And after that, why did the second transport stop several clicks away from the shuttle to receive the Elder? They were in a compromised combat zone, with a whole lot of suspicious activity. Did they really think flying a paper-mache shuttle several kilometers through the open with a small escort was the right way to go about it?

Somehow, the UEF seems to be rather seriously compromised by the GTVA's SOC--if they can get an agent with a pocket nuke aboard a high-security transport that's been randomly selected on short notice for a top-secret mission involving an Elder, could they get an agent with a pocket-nuke aboard an Oculus? In the Main Engineering of, say, the Eris? Or a random Karuna?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: headdie on September 25, 2012, 01:13:55 am
The debriefing, as an in-universe document, can contain errors. Being ready does not necessarily equate to the op being compromised.

It also dismisses out of hand the possibility that the operation was compromised by a Vasudan, which seems much more likely than that it was compromised by a UEF officer.

Somebody got an agent aboard the UEF VIP transport, though.

Yeah, that part still baffles me a bit. It's one thing for the meeting location to be compromised--Vasudans, easy explanation. But how did they find out which ship was going to be used? How did they get aboard? How did they get a pocket nuke aboard, and in Engineering?

And after that, why did the second transport stop several clicks away from the shuttle to receive the Elder? They were in a compromised combat zone, with a whole lot of suspicious activity. Did they really think flying a paper-mache shuttle several kilometers through the open with a small escort was the right way to go about it?

Somehow, the UEF seems to be rather seriously compromised by the GTVA's SOC--if they can get an agent with a pocket nuke aboard a high-security transport that's been randomly selected on short notice for a top-secret mission involving an Elder, could they get an agent with a pocket-nuke aboard an Oculus? In the Main Engineering of, say, the Eris? Or a random Karuna?


Who?

The war has been going off long enough that GTVI will have officers running around in UEF territory.  Combine that with the fact that the UEF are loosing the war and have been for some time means there will be many secretly questioning the UEF and Ubuntu which is an intel officer's dream scenario because with care and a little luck they can find plenty UEF personel who will be willing to talk about things they shouldn't and a few of them will be hacked off/scared enough to be susceptible to the suggestion they actively work against the UEF.

How?
There is a bunch of Terrorists and criminal types in Sol, if the Intel Officer can tap into their supply and transport networks then it is easy enough to move this kind of material around.  As for sourcing it then depending on what works best the GTVI can sneak in the bomb or again it might be possible to source it locally.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Drogoth on September 25, 2012, 02:05:30 am
Yeah but they would still need one hell of a highly placed agent to get about that transport
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: headdie on September 25, 2012, 04:59:40 am
Yeah but they would still need one hell of a highly placed agent to get about that transport

not really, getting it on board could be a maintenance tech and/or a baggage/loading handler.  You probably want the team leader as well to cover the event on the paperwork side and to redirect uncomfortable questions, neither of which need to know what the package is as only the Intel Officer and the person detonating the bomb if different to either of the previous mentioned need to know.  The biggest problem might be making sure your compromised team is assigned to that job but again with a little luck and imagination that is doable if you are on good terms with the person that schedules the work.

edit

just finished rereading your post and realised I miss read it :rolleyes:

again not really, when setting up a operation like this one of the things you make sure of is that the bomb is located somewhere the agent on board can access routinely with little suspicion or a scenario can be created where that person going to that location is justifiable.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: crizza on September 25, 2012, 05:36:54 am
THe UEF mole is a tricky one...
Every Elder knows, that once the GTVA claims victory, they won't see the light of day again...
The admirals? Hell, Calder might be frustrated with Byrne, but that won't make him a mole.
My bet? What about the possibilty that some of the defectors were SOC from the beginning and trained too fool the UEF...so one planted the nuke...and...the AWACs was allready on station 'cause... Steele expected them to return to this huge floating piece of junk?
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: The E on September 25, 2012, 05:48:06 am
What about the possibilty that some of the defectors were SOC from the beginning and trained too fool the UEF...so one planted the nuke...and...the AWACs was allready on station 'cause... Steele expected them to return to this huge floating piece of junk?

that possibility exists, but is highly unlikely. Defecting military personnel would not be put on the frontlines, or near security-critical postings. While this is certainly a vector for GTVI personnel to infiltrate the UEF, it would be pretty hard to conduct big operations from the place you end up in, since we can assume that UEF counterintel forces will keep a close eye on defectors.

The point is, it is absolutely possible for GTVI to make contact with the people onboard these transports, and it is also possible that these people can be coerced into performing acts of sabotage. Remember, the UEF already had a domestic terrorism organization at home that can be subverted, and given the general outlook of the Ubuntu populace, it is definitely possible to get them on the side of the GTVA.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: LordPomposity on September 25, 2012, 08:19:31 am
it was laporte all along

/shyamalan
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Luis Dias on September 25, 2012, 09:30:31 am
So we can all agree that it's a massive plot hole?

(ducks)
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: esarai on September 25, 2012, 09:48:46 am
No we may not.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Dragon on September 25, 2012, 10:10:40 am
So we can all agree that it's a massive plot hole?

(ducks)
You can't talk about plot holes until you've seen the whole plot. You didn't. This question will be answered, and you'll all be surprised by what the answer is, some more than the others...  :) [/tease]
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Luis Dias on September 25, 2012, 11:25:38 am
If I remember well, it is a very perturbing element in the plot, in the sense that makes you completely paranoid at that moment thinking that you are much much more alone and surrounded than you had even imagined previously. Not only were the UEF outgunned, there were even enemies within the safest places that you thought were in control. The worms were everywhere around you, and you shouldn't even sleep without one eye wide open.
Title: Re: The UEF mole
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 25, 2012, 12:32:26 pm
A plot hole is a place where the plot fails to make sense, i.e. some part of the implied narrative is inconsistent with another. This is simply a mystery.