Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: StarSlayer on April 15, 2013, 02:53:46 pm
-
Couple of explosions at the finish line of the Boston Marathon. Tentatively being labeled a bombing, no idea if it was foreign or domestic if it ends up confirmed as a bombing. So far it looks like no fatalities just injuries, hopefully it stays that way.
What a ****ty thing to do.
-
caught a quick news post on it a few mins ago. My thoughts are with those affected.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/athletics-explosions-boston-marathon-191328127.html
-
**** :(
-
This is certainly something else. Unfortunate without a doubt
I am also trying very hard not to say any of what first crossed my mind to say
-
That link has updated into 2 fatalities and 22/23 injuries. Also that they found at least 2 more bombs, which confirms it is bombs.
I hope they find the bastards that did this.
-
I hope they find the bastards that did this.
very much so
-
Possibly an additional device detonated at the JFK library. Reports are still cloudy
-
This might be of some use:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9996363/Boston-Marathon-bombing-live.html
The Telegraph is running a live updates service on this.
-
This really is a unlucky week. Seems like awful tragedies routinely happen roughly this week in April.
-
Best coverage right now is the WBUR livestream http://www.wbur.org/listen/live
-
A local source came with this eyewitness account (http://www.local15tv.com/mostpopular/story/UM-Coach-Bomb-Sniffing-Dogs-Were-at-Start-Finish/BrirjAzFPUKKN8z6eSDJEA.cspx). Probably wanted to avoid mass hysteria. Seems to indicate they were at least aware of bomb threats being made.
It's always sad to see a bombing occur and innocent people lose their lives or are otherwise hurt, I hope all affected will recover well.
-
What's bothering me is the sheer level of malicious intent being displayed- who the **** bombs a marathon!? That, combined with the nature of the reported injuries (a lot of ...leg injuries) comes off as particularly sadistic.
It's always sad to see a bombing occur and innocent people lose their lives or are otherwise hurt, I hope all affected will recover well.
-
oh joy, more terrorists. didnt you guys get in enough water boarding already? srsly, if you gies are in to bsdm i can refer you to an asian hooker i know.
-
Damn. :( I really liked the time I spent in Boston, hope they catch the ****er that did this. Has anyone claimed responsibility yet? Timing annd target suggest domestic rather than foreign/Islamic, but who knows?
-
Yeah. This sucks. :(
What's bothering me is the sheer level of malicious intent being displayed- who the **** bombs a marathon!?
People who want to kill people?
Has anyone claimed responsibility yet?
No. There were reports someone was in custody/PoI at one of the hospitals, but now reports are not saying so. (Which is/was a different person than the random muslim-looking person some ****-for-brains tackled into the street who was taken to the hospital because he got tackled into the street)
Timing annd target suggest domestic rather than foreign/Islamic, but who knows?
Lies. It was totally a false flag operation to restrict civil liberties. Absolutely not ****ting anyone that was the first question asked at the governor or mayor or whatever's in his press conference. :banghead:
(and the thing about the library was coincidence: electrical fire or something like it, not a bombing)
-
Timing annd target suggest domestic rather than foreign/Islamic, but who knows?
Lies. It was totally a false flag operation to restrict civil liberties. Absolutely not ****ting anyone that was the first question asked at the governor or mayor or whatever's in his press conference. :banghead:
Did they think they were in Arizona, or something? :nono:
-
Bruce Schneier has a good take on this (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/the-boston-marathon-bombing-keep-calm-and-carry-on/275014/).
-
I don't want to spread misinformation but I'd like to see if we can get some authentication; as far as I've heard they've released a potential suspect who happened to be a Saudi student, and I believe there was also some rumours about it being associated with Tea Party sympathisers...as apparently it's tax day in your part of the world and it wasn't very popular.
Doubt the second one very much. Can anyone confirm or deny?
-
Dilmah: Please read this (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/04/psa-ignore-the-news.html). Right now, I doubt there's any firm information to be had about the idiots behind this.
-
I've heard a lot of talk about the whole 'Patriot's Day' thing, that the Boston Marathon takes place on the anniversary of the start of the Civil War, but, as the E says, trying to allocate reasons right now is probably not a good idea, it was also the Anniversary of Kim Il Sung, the founder of North Korea, so it's a very delicate situation that could have unintended outcomes.
-
Bruce Schneier has a good take on this (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/the-boston-marathon-bombing-keep-calm-and-carry-on/275014/).
This is pretty much the reaction that Londoners had to the 7/7 bombers. The same day that 4 bombs blew up 3 underground trains and a bus, people were asking when they'd be running again. Many of us grew up during the time of the IRA, we weren't worried about terrorists then and the new breed of Muslim terrorists didn't scare us much either. Americans need to realise that they can just do the same thing.
-
Given the population difference between the two countries, I think doing that will be significantly more difficult for the United States than one would think
There's also a larger number of... to put it lightly... gullible folk
-
Lemme guess, whomever did this had severe mental health issues? This seems to be a common pattern among shootings as of late.
-
Dilmah: Please read this (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/04/psa-ignore-the-news.html). Right now, I doubt there's any firm information to be had about the idiots behind this.
I see. Seems like a good idea to wait out in that case.
-
I've heard a lot of talk about the whole 'Patriot's Day' thing, that the Boston Marathon takes place on the anniversary of the start of the Civil War, but, as the E says, trying to allocate reasons right now is probably not a good idea, it was also the Anniversary of Kim Il Sung, the founder of North Korea, so it's a very delicate situation that could have unintended outcomes.
Patriot's Day is actually Boston's celebration of the start of the American Revolution, which took place with the battles of Lexington and Concord on April 19, 1775. (Their holiday falls on the Monday before the date every year, apparently.) April 15 also happens to be the day that federal tax returns are due, but whether either of those has anything to do with the bombing is anyone's guess.
-
Bruce Schneier has a good take on this (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/04/the-boston-marathon-bombing-keep-calm-and-carry-on/275014/).
This is pretty much the reaction that Londoners had to the 7/7 bombers. The same day that 4 bombs blew up 3 underground trains and a bus, people were asking when they'd be running again. Many of us grew up during the time of the IRA, we weren't worried about terrorists then and the new breed of Muslim terrorists didn't scare us much either. Americans need to realise that they can just do the same thing.
in terms of body counts im sure there are a number of serial killers who are way more effective at murder than terrorists are. plenty of mass murderers too, with huge body counts. there are plenty of crimes of passion that one can fall victim to, especially with gunz for all. there are plenty of cults that can get you dead pretty fast. then theres drunk drivers, and not drunk drivers who suck. what about suicide, our society makes how many citizens kill themselves every year? so plenty of ways to die in murica. idk why terrorists even scare people.
incidents like 9/11 and oklahoma city are quite rare. and your chances of being involved in a terrorist incident are like winning the lottery or being struck by lightening. really the worst response to terrorist activity is changing your behavior. thats a good way to let the terrorists win.
-
Whats going to make me sick of this isnt the act which by itself its awful like any other terrorist act but the hipocrisy that you people will sanctify the whole attack, nobody gave a **** about the 17 killed in Afghanistan (12 kids included on that) on april 6th, why should people care this happens in the US?
Of course, its not like we have a choice since your media will do its wonderful job of flooding everything about how awful, unique and tragic this was.
-
Whats going to make me sick of this isnt the act which by itself its awful like any other terrorist act but the hipocrisy that you people will sanctify the whole attack, nobody gave a **** about the 17 killed in Afghanistan (12 kids included on that) on april 6th, why should people care this happens in the US?
Of course, its not like we have a choice since your media will do its wonderful job of flooding everything about how awful, unique and tragic this was.
I dislike it when people go "Yeah, but what about the people halfway around the world who died"
There may be a point behind it, and I see it. It's just that the average human being only generally cares about what directly affects them.
If you care so much about what happens to people over there, then I would also expect you to attend every funeral that happens in your town, or at least give the family a call with your condolences. It's the same concept
-
I was actually in a discussion today about how this would be considered a 'good day' in certain other countries with regards to casualties, but I don't think it is because we 'don't care', I suspect several people here are perfectly aware of the tragedy of April 6th, but it more than that, it is acclimatization that causes the problem. After all, you yourself did not start a thread about those bombings, if you had not been de-sensitised by bombardment, you yourself would have posted a thread about it.
This has attracted attention for its irregularity, sadly bombings are a daily occurrence in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries, and there is no question of who did it. No bombing is ever 'tolerable', but it is more the circumstance than the event that causes discussion, it's almost as if 'when and where' has been answered, but we don't have the 'who or why'.
-
The average human being only generally cares about what directly affects them, americans make a show of it while increasing the problem, thats my problem.
-
...it's generally a bad idea to Darfur Clause someone else's tragedy. Something worse generally is happening, for any given event in consideration, but regard for human suffering is not a zero-sum game, and we do not pour out our hearts in metered doses.
-
Personally, I think the whole image of the 'Average American' is every bit as much as the creation of the Media as many American perceptions of other countries are. Y'see, that's the whole problem, there is no such thing as an 'average' American any more than an 'average' Brazilian, or any other countryman on the planet. Bias is everywhere, that's the whole problem, people tend towards what suits them best both personally and socially.
People say that people of a like mind cluster together, but it's probably closer to the truth to say that people clustered together end up of a like mind. The thing is, with somewhere like the US, there is room for, and largely exists, the entire Spectrum of standpoints, so there's little point trying to put them into a box, yes there's groups that make perfect media images of 'gung-ho' Hard-line Christian America, but they are not 'average' any more than an Evolution-believing, Atheistic City-dweller is.
EDIT : And, in the hope of getting this thread back on course before it veers off wildly, the concern here in London at the moment is the approaching Funeral Tomorrow and Marathon on Sunday, people are, without a motive, left wondering about their own safety, it's a very human reaction.
-
i kinda think this marathon thing has been overplayed in the press. they butchered the tv schedule yesterday to cram in extra news broadcasts. now its been the only thing they talk about on the news, i have no ****ing idea what nk is up to thanks to this crap. at least kim was amusing.
-
i kinda think this marathon thing has been overplayed in the press. they butchered the tv schedule yesterday to cram in extra news broadcasts. now its been the only thing they talk about on the news, i have no ****ing idea what nk is up to thanks to this crap. at least kim was amusing.
^This almost made it as my new signature block.
-
Thing is, if this was terrorists, why haven't they come forward to claim responsibilty? They are not normally reticent in taking credit?
-
AFAIK McVeigh didn't make any attempt to take credit for the Oklahoma City bombings?
-
So what would be the point of carrying out the bombing if not to draw public attention to your cause?
-
So what would be the point of carrying out the bombing if not to draw public attention to your cause?
I was wondering about such things not too long after it happened. Bombing a sporting event seems like a big cry for attention, you'd think whoever did it would be shouting from the rooftops by now that it was them.
I wonder if this is a thrill killer at work rather than terrorists.
-
Well that how Al Qaeda works and how the IRA etc. used to work in Northern Ireland and Mainland Britain. But if this is done by an individual such as McVeigh, then I suppose it would be pretty stupid of them to hold their hands up and say "It was me!" I don't know if the UnaBomber Ted Kaczynski ever did so!
-
Come to think of it, this is the first time I have actually heard about a terror attack on a sporting event? This sort of thing seems to be surprisingly rare even for prominent sporting events like the Olympics and the World Cup.
Also, only 17 casualties? Again, I am (pleasantly) surprised that there were not more.
Seriously, this is not as huge of a deal as the television media is making it out to be! Yeah, newsworthy stuff happened. No, this is not the sort of thing that deserves constant 24/7 coverage and interrupting scheduled programming. Now people are going to believe that this is some sort of huge life-shattering event when life is going to continue going on as normal for Boston residents unaffected by the disaster (and of course the rest of the country)
-
Come to think of it, this is the first time I have actually heard about a terror attack on a sporting event? This sort of thing seems to be surprisingly rare even for prominent sporting events like the Olympics and the World Cup.
Um, the Olympics in Munich and Atlanta say hi, along with multiple other examples I'm sure.
Also, only 17 casualties? Again, I am (pleasantly) surprised that there were not more.
...where are you getting that number? Three people were killed, but more than 170 were injured, including at least a dozen with amputations.
In other shocking news, the media's doing a bang-up job on this. There were reports all over the place earlier today that a suspect had been arrested, all of which the FBI later refuted.
-
The bombing has resurrected a sense of vulnerability the United States has not felt since 9/11. People are easily scared and now that we have Facebook & Twitter, it's easy for someone to start a fire without gasoline.
-
AFAIK McVeigh didn't make any attempt to take credit for the Oklahoma City bombings?
Pretty hard to when you get arrested within 2 hours of the bombing for something else and have a card in your car where you've written down the going rate of TNT. :p
-
Ah. Sadly I can't really read his WP article for very long because, besides being repugnant, the man was also incredibly annoying.
-
Well the irony is that it was McVeigh's own "**** the law" attitude which got him caught.
He was stopped for driving a car with no number plates ("**** you DMV! You're not the boss of me!")
He was arrested for having a concealed weapon ("Second Amendment! Woohoo!")
Once arrested his car was searched and they found a card from an army surplus store with "TNT at $5 a stick. Need more." written on the back ( ........... ) Nope, I've got nothing. I can't imagine what was going through his mind over that one. :p
I suspect they would have caught him otherwise as he left quite a paper trail, but had he been sensible enough to otherwise follow the law when committing a crime he might have evaded capture for longer than 90 minutes. :p
-
karajorma you've just made me even more annoyed at him
-
So McVeigh was quite an idiotic dickwad! At least the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski had a little more sense than that if a little unstable, but he still got caught!
-
Also, only 17 casualties? Again, I am (pleasantly) surprised that there were not more.
...where are you getting that number? Three people were killed, but more than 170 were injured, including at least a dozen with amputations
From listening to Fox News, whom apparently forgot to add in that extra zero. Reporting as usual for that channel :/
-
At one point, I heard that there were only 2 reported casualties. Somebody forgot the difference between fatalities and casualties (which can include injured). :nono:
-
Oh hey... last week's xkcd "what if" :blah:
Edit: link (http://what-if.xkcd.com/40/)
-
oh my god randall munroe did it
-
So McVeigh was quite an idiotic dickwad! At least the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski had a little more sense than that if a little unstable, but he still got caught!
the unabomber lived in the woods, he stayed completely off the grid which is why he evaded capture so long. on the other hand he didnt have the same bodycount as mcveigh.
-
Apparently the TV news outlets keep contradicting themselves. There was arrests, there was not arrests, the suspect is a brown male, the suspect is a white male...
There's a short article and accompanying video here (http://deadspin.com/todays-boston-bombing-media-****show-in-90-seconds-475212590) that sums it up nicely.
-
Oh hey... last week's xkcd "what if" :blah:
Edit: link (http://what-if.xkcd.com/40/)
That's so awesome
-
The media has been in rare cock up form over this one. I think my favorite part was when they reported that the Police and Federal investigators had acquired images of the subjects that they where distributing internally so that the suspects wouldn't know they had them...
-
Hasn't one of the bombers been shot and killed? I'm hearing that they were found on a college campus in Cambridge, a police officer was shot and killed and one of the bombers, another got away. There was also a car chase involved where the bombers were throwing bombs out of the car at the pursuing police!
-
The media has been in rare cock up form over this one. I think my favorite part was when they reported that the Police and Federal investigators had acquired images of the subjects that they where distributing internally so that the suspects wouldn't know they had them...
i'd hardly call the media ****ing up everything they report rare. you could maybe say this is a rare case of getting called out on it though.
-
The media has been in rare cock up form over this one. I think my favorite part was when they reported that the Police and Federal investigators had acquired images of the subjects that they where distributing internally so that the suspects wouldn't know they had them...
i'd hardly call the media ****ing up everything they report rare. you could maybe say this is a rare case of getting called out on it though.
I think the internet and full time coverage really exacerbated it in this case. Typically I think they would have a better filter but when they need to fill air time and try and keep up with the speed of rumor and speculation on the web it just ends up being information diarrhea.
-
Apparently there's now martial law over in Boston. Can anyone confirm this? There's a buncha photos that seem to be from Boston.
Example (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/martiallaw.jpg/).
Curious to hear what you think.
EDIT: Looks like MP-Ryan mentioned this in the shooter thread.
-
Complete bull****. Residents have been advised to stay indoors and police are sweeping neighborhoods looking for the remaining suspect. Nothing more.
-
"The police told all the residents to stay put and not leave the house. Looking out of our window we saw masses of SWAT teams and police agents scouring all the backyards, bushes and streets. There are helicopters. The police seem to have isolated one particular area. The police were looking and talking to the suspect through a megaphone – this is where we are right now," Gliel said.
"Everybody is tense. No one can leave their house, all the businesses around here are closed."
Source from RT, also reported by money.msn.com and other sources.
It doesn't sound like it was 'advised', but rather forced or at least intimidated into it. I don't mean to say it IS martial law, i'm just curious to find out what's up in that regard out of interest.
What would you (anyone) call lockdown and what a martial law scenario, though?
-
"The police told all the residents to stay put and not leave the house. Looking out of our window we saw masses of SWAT teams and police agents scouring all the backyards, bushes and streets. There are helicopters. The police seem to have isolated one particular area. The police were looking and talking to the suspect through a megaphone – this is where we are right now," Gliel said.
"Everybody is tense. No one can leave their house, all the businesses around here are closed."
Source from RT, also reported by money.msn.com and other sources.
It doesn't sound like it was 'advised', but rather forced or at least intimidated into it. I don't mean to say it IS martial law, i'm just curious to find out what's up in that regard out of interest.
What would you (anyone) call lockdown and what a martial law scenario, though?
to my understanding martial law often involves military enforcement of the situation. as it stands this is more along the lines of stay inside, stay safe both from the risk of injury and from the risk of being harassed by the police
-
What would you (anyone) call lockdown and what a martial law scenario, though?
Lockdown: The police tell you to sit the **** down in your house and wait till they find the guy. Going outside may result in being held at gunpoint in the middle of the street while a few robots are summoned to cut off your clothes. (happened to some ~60yr old guy today, cause he had a tv remote/garage opener/cellphone in his hand/pocket and a coat, and they thought the remote could be a dead-mans switch for an explosive vest - which the police think the kid still at-large has)
Martial law: The coax gunner on that tank in the intersection can use you as target practice if you are outside at the wrong time.
-
Martial law: The coax gunner on that tank in the intersection can use you as target practice if you are outside at the wrong time.
Not exactly. It's Martial Law afterall. This only means the military gets to do law enforcement duties using their equipment and men. That said, other measures are often taken along with martial law (such as curfews, suspension of civil rights, that sort of thing) that can result in a situation you described, and in fact did, in a particularly nasty way, just before the fall of communism in Poland.
That said, martial law can also be used without those measures, for instance if you need to take out a guy who stole a tank from a military base. Police isn't equipped with AT weapons, and the military can't be sent in under normal circumstances (this didn't actually happen, because the tank got stuck, but it was close).
-
Ok ok ok. So I should have said 'the above, except instead of robots...'
Also: super pertinent possibly actually real news thing: https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/325376035979927552
and edit to quote the edit:
. Police isn't equipped with AT weapons...
Yours might not be. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if US metropolitan SWAT armories had a few AT rockets on hand, because: paranoia. :nono:
E2: Possibly watch this guy get shot on live tv. (http://abcnews.go.com/live) He's hiding in a boat.
-
Sounds like it's the endgame. Jeez, I hope they can take him without any more calamities.
-
they got him in custody
-
ffffffffffffff....
figures. Step away for a quickie after hours of being hopelessly glued to my F5 key and its over.
-
Glad they finally got this asshat. I was tired of having to pack extra mags and wear my friggen armor vest to work everyday (was only 15 miles away). Still, you'd think if these two twits had any brains at all they would have walked away from the bombing and disappeared instead of staying local.
As far as the marshal law discussion, I'd rather get potential targets and hostages out of the way while doing this kind of search. Sucks trampling people's rights, but you have to search every inch to find these scumbags. And there is a way to do it respectfully.
My only regret for this whole thing was that I kept waiting for Gov. Patrick to say "Yeah, and we're not gonna fall for a banana in the tailpipe." for this whole incident.
I still want to curb stomp Dzhokar 'The Walking Dead' style tho.
-
and let the waterboarding begin...
-
****ING LOOP TESSIE ALL NIGHT
-
Still, you'd think if these two twits had any brains at all they would have walked away from the bombing and disappeared instead of staying local.
If they had done in this in the seventies or eighties, they would have effectively disappeared despite staying local. People managed that. Once their picture was out it probably didn't matter how far they ran, and that was inevitable.
The smartphone and the proliferation of surveillance cameras for cheap has made this kind of thing considerably more painful for the doer.
-
Righto,
Let's do the time warp, (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/20/cbs-news-fbi-interviewed-tamerlan-tsarnaev-2-years-ago/) again. (http://rt.com/usa/tsarnaev-brothers-parents-innocent-124/)
-
Righto,
Let's do the time warp, (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/20/cbs-news-fbi-interviewed-tamerlan-tsarnaev-2-years-ago/) again. (http://rt.com/usa/tsarnaev-brothers-parents-innocent-124/)
Yes dear, this was a false flag operation
-
I like how RussiaToday has already jumped on the conspiracy train. They stopped pretending to be credible a long time ago.
-
I thought some elements of the latter article were interesting, but the FBI does not make itself a steady defence in this matter:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/terrorist-plots-helped-along-by-the-fbi.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
-
Is the point here that the FBI is doing a really good job with its stings, or that it should be pursuing them even more aggressively?
-
Either have the courage to commit to your conspiracy theories or stop posting them; don't try to weasel around it by presenting it all as "oh well I found this article, it makes a number of interesting points, what do you think?"
-
Is the point here that the FBI is doing a really good job with its stings, or that it should be pursuing them even more aggressively?
I think the point is that fbi stings and undercover operations manage to persuade some people to terrorism that wouldn't have without fbi involvement.
-
That is indeed the point, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Entrapment is a well-defined and pretty thoroughly tested legal condition. If you are willing to enter the detonation code for a bomb with intent to kill, you're well past the point where an entrapment defense will stand. It's not like you just bought some weed for an undercover cop, you agreed to kill people with extensive premeditation.
I would definitely have qualms in the case of the mentally ill, or if you're dealing with a lesser offense like minor drug purchases or Prohibition-era **** (when the government was much, much more actively hostile to its citizenry than today).
-
That is indeed the point, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Entrapment is a well-defined and pretty thoroughly tested legal condition. If you are willing to enter the detonation code for a bomb with intent to kill, you're well past the point where an entrapment defense will stand. It's not like you just bought some weed for an undercover cop, you agreed to kill people with extensive premeditation.
I would definitely have qualms in the case of the mentally ill, or if you're dealing with a lesser offense like minor drug purchases or Prohibition-era **** (when the government was much, much more actively hostile to its citizenry than today).
I don't think its a question of the subject's guilt as much as a question of whether or not the FBI is prioritizing and carrying out its investigations properly. If they need to expend so much resources to convince the subject to commit the act is it really worth it? I'm not try to be a conspiracy nut here I'm just not clear on what these investigations typically entail. I mean obviously the FBI isn't just picking a dude up from a gas station and try to get him to blow stuff up, but I would like to know how far they would go to get a suspect.
-
If they need to expend so much resources to convince the subject to commit the act is it really worth it?
I don't think that those resources were spent convincing. Making it possible, perhaps.
-
It took 11 months of meandering discussion and a promise of $250,000 to lead him, with three co-conspirators he recruited, to plant fake bombs at two Riverdale synagogues.
This is what I'm getting at, from the article thaeris linked to. The judge seems to have similar feelings. It just seems like all this guy would've been without the fbi's nudging was a bigot. The FBI could turn a lot of bigots into terrorists if it wanted to, how do they choose who to investigate? I guess I should take it with a grain of salt since it's from an opinion piece but it comes off as a bit thoughtpolice-ish.
-
Yeah I can see what you're getting at there, I think it's something worth discussing. But even that's quite a ways from the story Thaeris wants to tell where this is all government puppetry. It's not a big surprise that this guy was under surveillance, nor that his parents (who are, according to their profoundly hilarious television interviews, a bit nutty) think the goobermint put them up to it.
-
Hey, I don't think we can call this Goober's fault. :P
-
In other news, GOP senator says **** the constitution, let's hold him as an enemy combatant while we figure out if he's an enemy combatant (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/us/gop-lawmakers-push-to-hold-boston-suspect-as-enemy-combatant.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0).
-
He's an idiot. I saw this that yesterday and the article I read said that that had no chance of passing with current US law. It was domestic terrorism and will be treated as such. I thought it was weird that they were invoking the clause (i can't remember the name of it) that allows them to not read the prisoner the Miranda rights and interview him without the presence of a lawyer, but it seems likely that that was just to see if there was anybody else involved besides the two brothers
-
He's an idiot. I saw this that yesterday and the article I read said that that had no chance of passing with current US law. It was domestic terrorism and will be treated as such. I thought it was weird that they were invoking the clause (i can't remember the name of it) that allows them to not read the prisoner the Miranda rights and interview him without the presence of a lawyer, but it seems likely that that was just to see if there was anybody else involved besides the two brothers
Public safety, and I believe it was because there could be other bombs somewhere. Not that the reasoning matters much when he can't give answers to any questions, even if he wanted to.
Apparently he's awake now. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/boston-bombing-brothers-planned-attacks-article-1.1323763) Time will tell if all the hand-wringing and chest-thumping over the no-Miranda bit will amount to anything.
-
I don't mind the concept of withholding Miranda rights at first, but as time passes the "imminent threat to public safety" portion of it kind of vanishes by default, so at this point it'd hardly be worth it.
-
I don't understand this fear that some US politically-affiliated persons have of providing suspects of criminal activity with their guaranteed rights. If we are that convinced they are guilty, there should be ample evidence to convict without illegally-obtained or coerced statements.
Now, if they want to pass a law stating that those who are convicted of a criminal offense related to certain terrorism offenses may be subjected to coercive interrogation in order to gather further information related to intelligence, I really don't have a problem with that, particularly in cases where the death penalty can and likely will be sought.
But seriously. Read the ****er his rights, give him a lawyer, and convict his ass properly. Once we've established - fairly - that he's guilty of everything he's alleged of doing, then put him through the wringer for every scrap of information he has, but not one second sooner.
-
I would like some hard data on the efficacy of torture before making any such proclamations.
-
I would like some hard data on the efficacy of torture before making any such proclamations.
I said coercive interrogation, not [physical] torture. I'm talking about those tactics that fall outside the realm of the judicial sense of fair play in standard police interrogation, but do not run afoul of the Geneva conventions - of which there are many.
-
I would like some hard data on the efficacy of torture before making any such proclamations.
There are any number of things that don't qualify as torture by any reasonable standard but will still get your interrogation tossed by a judge. Something as simple as excessive length of questioning can do it sometimes.
-
I would like some hard data on the efficacy of torture before making any such proclamations.
I've been reading the excellent Dirty War by Scahill, and he's got a great story from the immediate post-9/11 period. A key terror suspect was arrested in Afghanistan by, oddly enough, the FBI. The FBI director gave firm orders that he be treated with every legally required procedure - every T crossed, every I dotted - so the FBI could maintain the moral high ground. He was actually prepared to cooperate when the CIA grabbed him from the FBI, moved him to a black site, and tortured him until he 'confessed' that Al Qaeda had assisted Iraq in enriching uranium. The administration really wanted to hear this, because almost from the moment the first plane struck the tower, administration figures were explicitly interested in using the attack as an excuse to invade Iraq.
-
Gotta love social media
http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU
I'm curious as to what you guys have to say about this
For me, usual "internet is being internet" stuff
-
What is that I don't even.
-
Gotta love social media
http://imgur.com/a/Nx8EU
I'm curious as to what you guys have to say about this
For me, usual "internet is being internet" stuff
when i first heard the news about the bombing i thought "Well i guess the US wants to get stricter laws again" so it's no surprise that the "attack" might have been staged :)
-
.... seriously?
Internet conspiracy theories and those who believe them are the most stupid idiots to walk this earth. If your proof is a bunch of photos with lines on them, screencaps from TV news stations known for unreliability, and your own preconceptions about what the evil government wants to do, then you have no proof.
-
The parts of that that aren't conspiracy bull**** are factual bull****. They try to claim that the 'first suspect' was taken into custody, but the picture they claim is him is just some innocent jogger or pedestrian the cops arrested and later released.
-
Yeah, that's the biggest thing that jumped out at me too. Like, you couldn't even bother to get the easiest part correct?
-
I think my brain stem just detached itself and is now strangling me to de
-
While I generally believe that conspiracy theorists are full of ****, the idea that the US government would never do something like that was pretty much disproved when the Joint Chiefs approved Operation Northwoods.
Kennedy might have said "No ****ing way!" but it's hard to claim every other president would have.
-
The problem with these theories is that it assumes that the people involved do not in any way fear the consequences of their actions being revealed.
It also assumes that the people involved are so hilariously incompetent that a bunch of people with internet access can poke holes into the official story with ease.
-
The problem is that there's no way to tell which one's a real conspiracy and which one isn't. If a major intelligence agency wants to for example do something nefarious and pin it on someone else or simply spread misinformation, then they can. I have no doubt that the vast majority of conspiracy theories are baseless, but we can't tell whether any given one (discounting the really really obviously ludicrous ones) has anything to it. As pointed out, history seems to contain plenty of real conspiracies which are just as crazy and were handled just as incompetently or competently and involved just as many people as would be required by some of the conspiracy theories which we casually toss to the looney bin.
-
Conspiracy theories cannot be entirely discounted (Just as Russel's Teapot cannot be entirely discounted), but I haven't seen one that was developed on the internet and that actually held water for any amount of time. the problem I have is that conspiracy theories are not "Theories" in the scientific sense, and they sure as hell aren't investigations in the criminal sense.
I understand why many people think these conspiracy theories to be so compelling. It's certainly more comforting to believe in a big evil conspiracy that is out to get you, your freedom and your guns (not necessarily in that order) that orchestrates events to further their nefarious goals, than it is to believe in the possibility of people doing random **** out of their own volition. Being able to tie everything into a neat little narrative, that's always good; Admitting and being okay with the fact that sometimes things happen that just don't make sense is much harder than that.
Admittedly, I am biased against the whole subgenre of american conspiracy theories that follow the "Government does X to use as a precedent for tightening regulations on Guns/passing laws designed to broaden the powers of the executive" narrative.
-
That's why I pointed out Operation Northwoods. The Joint Chiefs agreed that the destruction of a US ship in Guantanamo Bay was a good idea. As was building a fake MIG and having it shoot down an American jet, planting bombs in Miami or even Washington, hijacking planes, and sinking refugees boats on the way to America.
This isn't a conspiracy theory. This actually happened! Fortunately Kennedy thought the CIA and military were complete off their heads to even contemplate the idea of committing terrorist actions against their own country.
Do I think the US has ever carried out a Northwoods style operation? Maybe, maybe not, I wouldn't be surprised if they had.
Do I believe that conspiracy theorists have ever stumbled across it? Absolutely not.
-
Do I think the US has ever carried out a Northwoods style operation? Maybe, maybe not, I wouldn't be surprised if they had.
Do I believe that conspiracy theorists have ever stumbled across it? Absolutely not.
Exactly. Most conspiracy-theorists are so incompetent that they probably couldn't be expected to recognize an actual conspiracy if they ever did stumble on it. While intelligence agencies make mistakes, you have to give them more credit than conspiracy cretins apparently do.
-
So much stupid (http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/post/48547675807/the-definitive-people-who-thought-chechnya-was-the), it hurts from laughing.
-
So much stupid (http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/post/48547675807/the-definitive-people-who-thought-chechnya-was-the), it hurts from laughing.
Related to this
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/czech-ambassador.jpg)
-
these people look like they're out of the loop. bet they haven't memorized the 50 states like good citizens.