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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Grizzly on November 09, 2015, 10:40:51 pm

Title: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Grizzly on November 09, 2015, 10:40:51 pm
Rock Paper Shotgun's spoiler-free review is rather postive (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/09/fallout-4-review-pc/) and there is a crosdressing too! (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/09/fallout-4-clothing/)
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 09, 2015, 10:47:22 pm
Jim Sterling (http://www.thejimquisition.com/2015/11/fallout-4-review-s-p-e-c-i-a-l/) also liked it (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUBqXkijAw). Others (http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/9/9696186/fallout-4-bugs) are less tolerant of the usual slew of BethSoft bugs.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2015, 01:14:37 am
Pls...

- you can't even kill anyone outside of designated enemies:
https://8ch.net/v/src/1447131558983.webm

-Ending with only 2 retarded options (even worse than Fallout 3)

- 4 ****ty conversation options (completely misleading b.t.w.). FAR less depth overall.

- removal of skills, perks and any sensible progression. No level cap or limits

- Survival mode is just more enemy HP

- smallest map for any Beth game

- generally bad writing, voice-acting and non-existant lip-sync


People today are too forgiving of developers pumping out ever worse products.
About the ONLY good thing in FO4 is the gunplay (it is better), gun construction and base building. Everything else is worse.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 10, 2015, 01:29:53 am
Pls...

- you can't even kill anyone outside of designated enemies:
https://8ch.net/v/src/1447131558983.webm

-Ending with only 2 retarded options (even worse than Fallout 3)

- 4 ****ty conversation options (completely misleading b.t.w.). FAR less depth overall.

- removal of skills, perks and any sensible progression. No level cap or limits

- Survival mode is just more enemy HP

- smallest map for any Beth game

- generally bad writing, voice-acting and non-existant lip-sync


People today are too forgiving of developers pumping out ever worse products.
About the ONLY good thing in FO4 is the gunplay (it is better), gun construction and base building. Everything else is worse.
you realize we can play the game now and can literally see how much this is bull****, right?
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: headdie on November 10, 2015, 01:46:28 am
TrashMan, for everyone's sake, please remove yourself from this thread.

and as for
People today are too forgiving of developers pumping out ever worse products.
This was discussed in that other thread
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2015, 02:26:27 am
you realize we can play the game now and can literally see how much this is bull****, right?

Unfortunately, nothing I said is bull****.
You got video evidence of what I'm saying. If you prefer to live in denial, well...


TrashMan, for everyone's sake, please remove yourself from this thread.

This is a free forum, I am on topic and you are not the boss of me.
If you don't like what I'm saying you're free to ignore me.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 10, 2015, 03:16:40 am
you realize we can play the game now and can literally see how much this is bull****, right?

Unfortunately, nothing I said is bull****.
You got video evidence of what I'm saying. If you prefer to live in denial, well...

And now I have gameplay evidence that you're full of ****!  There are absolutely perks, the conversation system is reminiscent of Mass Effect (which was a good conversation system), voice acting is head and shoulders better than it has been ever, conversations are actually fluid and interesting instead of the typical Bethesda "STARING AT THE CAMERA MEANS TALKING RIGHT" method, enemy level scaling is if not nonexistent certainly incredibly reduced, power armor is handled with some modicum of gravitas missing from every single other Fallout game, and the crafting and construction system (while a bit confusing to start) is pretty awesome.  I'm not far enough through yet to really pass judgment on the quality of the story yet, but if you say it's awful I have no choice but to regard it highly until it disappoints me.

So, once more, with feeling:
TrashMan, for everyone's sake, please remove yourself from this thread.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Aesaar on November 10, 2015, 04:39:22 am
Guys, ignore your experience actually playing the game, Trashman has a 20 second video.  He knows better than you do.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2015, 07:02:09 am
And now I have gameplay evidence that you're full of ****!  There are absolutely perks, the conversation system is reminiscent of Mass Effect (which was a good conversation system), voice acting is head and shoulders better than it has been ever, conversations are actually fluid and interesting instead of the typical Bethesda "STARING AT THE CAMERA MEANS TALKING RIGHT" method, enemy level scaling is if not nonexistent certainly incredibly reduced, power armor is handled with some modicum of gravitas missing from every single other Fallout game, and the crafting and construction system (while a bit confusing to start) is pretty awesome.  I'm not far enough through yet to really pass judgment on the quality of the story yet, but if you say it's awful I have no choice but to regard it highly until it disappoints me.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA

OK, you're right that there are Perks...kinda. A pale skeleton tied directly to attributes (want to craft guns? You need high STR!) Inifnitely inferior to previous systems.

4 "choice" conversation system like ME. It was s** there, ti's s*** here. Writing is terrible, choices are non-existant. You're rail-roaded to the exact same thing all the time anyway.

You get laser weapons and power armor and a nuke launcher early in the game - we can't let player actually have to WORK to get them or go off the beaten path, after all, modern kids have ADD. Enjoy raiders in power armor.

Half the world is unkillable NPC's.

Let me quote another guy here:

Quote
>too lazy to write clever plot devices into the game so that the story progresses even if you kill some people (e.g. you kill a synth that is capable of transferring its consciousness into a new avatar)
>too lazy to even make them fight back and give you an interesting and challenging fight
>too lazy to give them some kind of unique loot or alternate path that unlocks if you kill story characters
>too lazy to write a proper branching story that can take all eventualities into account
>too lazy to allow the player to have the same kind of freedom that was present in games in the late ****ing 90s.

just make them unkillable lol :^)



>PLAYER FREEDOM IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL
>OUR SERIES OFFERS UNLIMITED CHOICE
>DO WHATEVER!
>GO WHEREVER!
>unless it's doing something other than following the single linear story with a boring conclusion and terrible pacing if you want to do more than that you're just entitled also mods will fix it


Quote
So, once more, with feeling:
TrashMan, for everyone's sake, please remove yourself from this thread.

Ladies first.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: karajorma on November 10, 2015, 07:20:37 am
Welcome to Hard Light Monkeys, population, You.

And I mean that literally, the only person in that group at the moment is you.

Enjoy your week long stay.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: StarSlayer on November 10, 2015, 07:21:12 am


So, once more, with feeling:
TrashMan, for everyone's sake, please remove yourself from this thread.

Ladies first.

Smooth move on using misogyny as an insult.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: headdie on November 10, 2015, 07:51:34 am


So, once more, with feeling:
TrashMan, for everyone's sake, please remove yourself from this thread.

Ladies first.

Smooth move on using misogyny as an insult.

Not worth joining TrashMan in monkeysvill over
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: EatThePath on November 10, 2015, 08:38:24 am
Stepping around all that vitriol, is the unkillable NPCs bit true, or was that just some sort of tutorial area? A world filled with immortal NPCs would be a somewhat disappointing direction for bethesda to take. Maybe not a game-sinking one, but I don't have a history with fallout, so I don't know if the spontaneous village-wiping murderspree is as beloved a thing there as it is in elder scrolls games.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 10, 2015, 09:01:34 am
Not sure.  Since I don't do that in the first place, I can't even rightly say I'd have ever discovered it.

TrashMan is also at least not wrong about skills.  That said, the lack of "I only need two more points in lockpicking before I can open this arbitrarily harder to open lock" is not something I consider a negative.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Aesaar on November 10, 2015, 09:10:43 am
Who the hell plays Bethesda games for the main quest anyway?  In every game since Oblivion, they've invariably been terribly written and very railroaded. 

Actually, most quests.  Remember the Thieve's Guild plotline in Skyrim?
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: The E on November 10, 2015, 09:14:52 am
Who the hell plays Bethesda games for the main quest anyway?  In every game since Oblivion, they've invariably been terribly written and very railroaded. 

Actually, most quests.  Remember the Thieve's Guild plotline in Skyrim?

Oh, but the fun I had, playing as a Khajit warrior with a Greataxe as his weapon of choice being named the mightiest wizard in all the land.....

(Seriously, that was such a laughably bad questline)
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on November 10, 2015, 09:46:14 am
so I don't know if the spontaneous village-wiping murderspree is as beloved a thing there as it is in elder scrolls games.
It was certainly doable in 1 & 2, and I think 3 let you kill basically anyone that's not a child or a vital NPC.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 10, 2015, 01:59:13 pm
Who the hell plays Bethesda games for the main quest anyway?  In every game since Oblivion, they've invariably been terribly written and very railroaded. 

Actually, most quests.  Remember the Thieve's Guild plotline in Skyrim?

Skyrim's provided you some pretty decent setpieces. FO3 was amazing, if only for Liberty Prime.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: FlamingCobra on November 10, 2015, 03:03:43 pm
I haven't bought the game yet since apparently my GTX 660M cannot run it. But my understanding is that the gameplay is great but the UI is utter garbage when using a keyboard and mouse.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 10, 2015, 04:37:09 pm
It's not a good one, no.  It takes some getting used to, but getting used to it is possible.  I'd not think it so difficult if I wasn't trained by hundreds of hours of New Vegas and Skyrim.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 10, 2015, 05:22:39 pm
I would not classify it as "utter garbage"; it's got some counter-intuitive elements and you need to unlearn muscle memory from previous games (the number of times I have grabbed something out of my storage chest when I wanted to put something in is embarassing), but the UI in general is much more streamlined than previous unmodded BethSoft UIs; a UI mod would need to offer some substantial usability improvements for me to bother installing one, which is certainly not the case with their previous games.

Biggest problems are a few hardcoded controls and not making it obvious that some controls exist; for instance, in the workshop menu, you can hold shift and use WASD to select objects to build instead of needing to take your hand off the mouse to hit the arrow keys, but this isn't mentioned in-game anywhere.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 10, 2015, 05:53:42 pm
If there's one thing at all I want to see just go away it's the colored screen fuzzing when you're in workshop mode.  It's annoying as hell.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: deathfun on November 11, 2015, 05:28:37 pm
I managed to win both the base game and the season pass for a grand total of 0$

So anything bad that happens I don't care. I also wouldn't care because after watching a streamer friend of mine play it, the cog cranked laser musket is literally the coolest thing ever, even if it is a ****ty gun. It's still functionally pretty cool. A laser musket.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Phantom Hoover on November 11, 2015, 05:34:59 pm
my playthrough of new vegas was mostly a love affair with a laser rifle, will i be able to repeat this in fo4
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 11, 2015, 08:06:24 pm
my playthrough of new vegas was mostly a love affair with a laser rifle, will i be able to repeat this in fo4
Well, I got a unique laser rifle from a quest, but I haven't used it yet because I am busy having a love affair with my heavily-customized 10mm pistol (also I'm waiting to hit Science! level 2 so I can put some slightly more interesting weapon mods on it).
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 11, 2015, 09:03:37 pm
Gotta echo the 10 mm love.  It's great when literally the first gun you pick up can carry you clear through midgame thanks to various upgrades you can put on it, and be fairly competitive while you do it.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Grizzly on November 12, 2015, 01:55:20 am
my playthrough of new vegas was mostly a love affair with a laser rifle, will i be able to repeat this in fo4

And then you find the holorifle...
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Phantom Hoover on November 12, 2015, 02:02:19 am
I played stealthy and long range so the laser rifle was much more useful.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 12, 2015, 06:23:03 am
I played stealthy and long range so the laser rifle was much more useful.
I was sniping everyone with the holorifle at long range; dunno why a laser rifle's pathetic damage would be more useful for that.

ALSO

holy **** laser rifles in Fallout 4

save your fiber-optics

you will want them later
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Grizzly on November 12, 2015, 07:08:00 am
IIRC the scope for the Holorifle has to be found or purchased and not everybody gets one.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Phantom Hoover on November 12, 2015, 07:26:21 am
It doesn't even matter, holorifle shots move so slowly they can't hit a moving target outside of VATS.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Turambar on November 12, 2015, 09:27:35 am
Well the game is being surprisingly accomodating of my fist of the north star roleplay.

I'm not worrying so much about guns and long range, because my strategy is to run up to them and punch them to death.

I may be stepping outside the bounds of the role play with all the psycho jet i'm shooting up, but i just consider that "getting mad"
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Mongoose on November 12, 2015, 05:32:52 pm
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Omae wa mo
Shindieru
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 12, 2015, 05:35:33 pm
It doesn't even matter, holorifle shots move so slowly they can't hit a moving target outside of VATS.
Did Project Nevada change that? Because I only realized my holorifle wasn't hitscan when VATS did a slow-mo kill for the first time.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Phantom Hoover on November 12, 2015, 05:46:10 pm
That's quite likely.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on November 12, 2015, 06:18:28 pm
Reviews on the Run/EP Daily gave it a pair of 10s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_24KlR9uc0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_24KlR9uc0)
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 12, 2015, 06:21:48 pm
ftfy
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 12, 2015, 06:23:37 pm
I feel like technical issues alone are enough to keep this from being a 10, but the story's typically mediocre writing doesn't do it any favors either.

That said, if you're playing Fallout for the story I really have to question your motivation.  I'd give it a solid 8.5, on a scale where 9 isn't actually 5.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Ghostavo on November 12, 2015, 07:47:56 pm
Two things that startled me so far. Enemies have a chance to go super saiyan on you, and I'm lucky enough that it was a Radroach and a Bloatfly for me. I'm too scared to think what would happen with a Super Mutant, Power Armor wearing Raider or a Death Claw receiving such bonuses.

Second, there seems to be meaningful weather patterns, and I was caught by surprise when a storm/green fog started giving radiation warnings while I was crafting things in my hideout.

P.S.
Spoiler:
**** the Mirelurk Queen
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 13, 2015, 12:20:47 am
I feel like technical issues alone are enough to keep this from being a 10
I haven't encountered any real technical issues so far; I once had my audio die until I closed and reopened the game, and one time I reloaded a game and a bottlecap mine had vanished (showing up again, and needing to be disarmed, the next time I came back to the area). That's it, in... *checks Steam*... 48 hours of running this game.

Oh wait, and there was one annoying line whose subtitle refused to go away until that character talked again, making it harder for me to tell what another character was saying. So three issues.

Honestly, that's pretty downright miraculous for a BethSoft title this soon after release (there's been one patch, but the only thing on the changelog is "Fixes crash related to xaudio drivers").
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Hades on November 13, 2015, 01:41:55 am
That said, if you're playing Fallout for the story I really have to question your motivation.  I'd give it a solid 8.5, on a scale where 9 isn't actually 5.
Poor storywriting is something native to Bestheda, not Fallout.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: deathfun on November 14, 2015, 05:12:26 am

Anyone else encountering this? Strafing around a target only to have it stutter around like this? Notice how the firearm remains smooth
Took a look into it, and apparently the usual response as a fix was "Go borderless" but given that's what I've been playing on

Wondering if anyone else has encountered that
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 14, 2015, 06:03:38 am
That looks really annoying; I haven't experienced anything like that. Have you tried turning off borderless? See if it affects anything?
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: deathfun on November 14, 2015, 06:19:59 am
That looks really annoying; I haven't experienced anything like that. Have you tried turning off borderless? See if it affects anything?

Actually just figured out what the issue is related to (after a few hours of mucking around in the ini, google, etc)

In order for the game to *not* experience that, you either need to run it at *exactly* 60FPS 100% of the time (with vsync on of course), or you turn vsync off (both the GPU's control panel one and the iPresentInterval option being set as 0 in the .ini file) and find yourself suffering from screen tears/unexpected consequences as apparently (like Skyrim) when frame rates go too high, the game tends to break. But at least objects don't jitter

This is the only game where that type of jitter has ever occurred for me. Farcry 4? GTA V? No problem, vsync does what it's supposed to and doesn't make objects in the game start tripping balls

Though no (to answer the question), changing it out of Borderless didn't improve anything


Anyhow, figured I'd say all that in case I wasn't the only one here.

EDIT:

As it turns out, it does actually happen in the other games, I just don't really notice it nearly as much. Huh. Goes to show that I am actually an idiot, and it's entirely to do with the fact I need to upgrade my computer (though I noticed that the controller has a much more pronounced jitter in comparison to the kb/m which seems to dull it a bit. Guess that's why I didn't notice it in FC4 all that much)
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: CP5670 on November 14, 2015, 11:17:54 am
I'll get this after a few months, once the mod community has fixed the issues in it. I spent tons of time with FO3 and NV and loved them both, but have too many other games on my plate right now.

That engine has always had a lot of problems with microstuttering because of how its physics ticrate is not time-based (same issue as the Doom 3 engine). The previous Fallout games have stutter remover mods that improve things a lot at about 80fps or less, but the games still go too fast at higher framerates. There are other mods that can be used to cap the engine at 60fps.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 14, 2015, 01:51:10 pm
That engine has always had a lot of problems with microstuttering because of how its physics ticrate is not time-based (same issue as the Doom 3 engine). The previous Fallout games have stutter remover mods that improve things a lot at about 80fps or less, but the games still go too fast at higher framerates. There are other mods that can be used to cap the engine at 60fps.
Fallout 4 is framerate-limited by default.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: CP5670 on November 14, 2015, 04:40:02 pm
That engine has always had a lot of problems with microstuttering because of how its physics ticrate is not time-based (same issue as the Doom 3 engine). The previous Fallout games have stutter remover mods that improve things a lot at about 80fps or less, but the games still go too fast at higher framerates. There are other mods that can be used to cap the engine at 60fps.
Fallout 4 is framerate-limited by default.

Although that's better than the previous games, they should have really fixed this problem to begin with, so that higher framerates work properly.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Fury on November 15, 2015, 12:34:34 am
I've got 144Hz display and F4 runs at smooth 72fps. I don't know what you mean by framerate-limited.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 15, 2015, 12:56:04 am
I've got 144Hz display and F4 runs at smooth 72fps. I don't know what you mean by framerate-limited.
That's exactly what I mean: on a 144Hz display, Fallout 4 will limit itself to 72 FPS, because the Creation Engine's physics calculations are apparently tied to framerate. Do some Googling for further information if you care about technical details and/or how to turn the limit off.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: deathfun on November 16, 2015, 07:19:40 am
So I decided to spend another several hours figuring out my st-st-st-stuttering issue, and as it turns out, my initial thoughts weren't off as I later thought they were. What I thought I was seeing in other games was me just screwing myself over

That stutter problem is only there for me in Fallout, and what I ended up doing to fix that was putting iFPSClamp=50 (still working out the best framerate to go with to avoid too much slow/speed up) in the ini file. This eliminated my stuttering, but gave the interesting side effect of things speeding up or slowing down depending on your current framerate. Go go game engine's speed being tied into framerate. That's what was causing my massive stuttering

This prompted me to look into it further, and that was "Just why is it my frames drop here?"

On average, my game runs pretty decently, 50-60 fps. However, upon going to Diamond City, it'd drop down to 40. Usually, if you turn down absolutely everything setting wise, you'd see that number go up... but it didn't. Turning my settings up, also didn't seem to do much until I started making godrays and shadows to their ultra counterparts

The next odd framerate hit culprits? Bushes. [Insert political joke here]

If I ran up into the shrubbery not far from the Red Rocket gas station, the lowest settings I could put would receive a hit from 60FPS to 45ish. I move out of the shrubs, I'd go back to normal

Later today I'm going to see just what affects what and try to figure out why. A lot of settings seemingly have no effect in those two scenarios.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Mongoose on November 16, 2015, 10:06:09 pm
Shouldn't tying game engine speed to framerate have stopped being a thing in, like, 1996?
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 16, 2015, 10:11:31 pm
Shouldn't tying game engine speed to framerate have stopped being a thing in, like, 1996?

Well it does have the pleasant side effect of not allowing the game to totally outstrip someone who's experiencing frame rate drop.  I'll have infrequent drops to three or four FPS (if not lower) for whatever reason, but the game runs at that speed too, instead of just displaying whatever frame it can render while it tries to keep up.  So that feral ghoul that already runs like 20 meters per second doesn't suddenly get a free pass to tackle me just because my framerate tanks.  It's moving just as slow as I am.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: rev_posix on November 16, 2015, 10:13:59 pm
Shouldn't tying game engine speed to framerate have stopped being a thing in, like, 1996?
Welcome to games being made for a console first then ported over to 'real' computers later, often with the same shortcuts and limitations of the consoles.

As consoles are now, basically, low end old computers, I would be surprised if this trend didn't continue, if not get 'worse'.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2015, 03:08:33 am
Well, it's been a week. Plenty of time for more informed opinions.

Check out the Metacritic score on this one - tanking, even after a call to fans to rate it high and accusations of brigading (because any 1/10 is just a hater, but 10/10's by fanboys are all fully objective and fine).
Naturally, the critic scores are almost all perfect. Seems like a lot of the marketing money went into bribes.

SPOILERS AHOY

Spoiler:
The story is absolutely retarded.
200 years after the bombs, and everything looks like it fell yesterday,
As soon as you're out of the vault you run into the nearest town and kill raiders with your new Laser Musket (high dmg, infinite ammo). Then, in this harsh, unforgiving post-apocalyptic world complete strangers give you the most valuebale piece of equipment just like that - power armor and a minigun. 10 minutes out of the Vault and you're killing Deathclaws. Then the writers didn't know how to proceed, so they threw in a "prophecy" told to you by a drugged up old woman. Basically "I don't know how to coherently tie the plot together, let's just tell the player directly where he has to go!" So off you go to find Mr. Kellogs Rice Crispies. You find a detectives office and the secretary tells you she doesn't know where he is, before telling you where he is. You rescue him and track down Kellog and kill him. Then you pick up his brain and find magic tech that lets you see his memories (like Assasins Creed), to find out he's been hired by THE INSTITUTE.
So you run into Synths (basically a lore-raping terminator rip-offs), a genius super-mutant scientists gives you plan for a magical teleporters (more lore rape) and the top it all off, you're given the tasks to assemble a teleporter from scrap. Just to remind you that the husband is a war vet jarhead and the wife is a normal housewife (with no power armor training), so it's equally stupid regardless who you pay as.
With that teleporter you get into the institute to find out your son is the villain and you can either kill him or nuke Boston (but he'll die anyway even if you don't kill him).


The game is a complete **** show. The gunplay is probably the best it has ever been, but the RPG elements have never been worse. You will not know what your character is actually going to say half the time thanks to the dialogue wheel (which occasionally has options as vague as "Sarcastic"). You cannot split your focus between, say, improving stealth and giving yourself a gun-related perk because skills are now perks, so you can only concentrate on one thing at each level. More over, you can't pour all your points into improving stealth/lockpicking/hacking anymore because perks are tiered and by level, so you need to wait until you're level 17+ or something before you can unlock/hack master locks/computers. It's Skyrim with guns, only WORSE. At least crafting makes sense there, but here you can craft magical guns with infinite ammo, fire or ice damage, etc..

Everything is extremely front-loaded so that console kiddies can get all the cool stuff handed to them right away and not get bored by having to actually earn anything. It's also optimized like a rancid turd and animation speed is tied to FPS. Don't waste your bandwidth on this shlock.

TL:DR Worst excuse for a RPG by Bethseda so far.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Aesaar on November 20, 2015, 03:19:21 am
Retarded story.  Wow.  Not like we ever had that in a Bethesda game before.  Not like most of Skyrim's questlines were retarded.  Not like Fallout 3's story was dumb as ****.  Nope.  **** story really is unique to Fallout 4.  And the 'not enough RPG mechanics' thing sounds like exactly the same stuff people said about Skyrim.  Actually, most of this is.  So what you're really saying is that this game is a lot like Skyrim.

Also, pls tell me more about how SotS2 is a great game!


Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 20, 2015, 04:02:13 am
Check out the Metacritic score on this one
85 compared to New Vegas's 84? Sounds fine to me.

Spoiler:
Laser Musket (high dmg, infinite ammo).
Spoiler:
High damage but you have to crank it after every shot, which takes a lot more time than using an ordinary laser rifle and reloading every so often. And what are you talking about "infinite ammo"? The only weapons that can't run out of ammo are melee weapons.

Spoiler:
You cannot split your focus between, say, improving stealth and giving yourself a gun-related perk because skills are now perks, so you can only concentrate on one thing at each level.
Spoiler:
You say that like it wasn't always a terrible idea not to spend all of your skill points per level on one skill. Not to mention leveling up doesn't take all that long, so "dividing your attention" is not only possible, but encouraged by the level limits on higher ranks of perks. The level limits you simultaneously complain about, and also you complain that the game front-loads everything. It doesn't count as "front-loading" if you use the console to get to level 50 in the first ten minutes, you know.

Spoiler:
you can craft magical guns with infinite ammo, fire or ice damage, etc..
Spoiler:
No you can't. The closest to that being true is that you can give laser weapons a capacitor that induces burning; that's hardly "magical". Everything else you describe (assuming by "infinite ammo" you actually mean "unlimited clip size" because, again, there are no infinite ammo weapons) is a legendary modifier, which can only be looted from legendary enemies (or bought, sometimes); never crafted. For that matter, you can't craft equipment; only mods for it.

But please, tells us again about how perks have been removed while we're staring at our perk screens. I'm sure if you just keep saying it sucks we'll all forget how much fun we're having.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2015, 05:14:23 am
Retarded story.  Wow.  Not like we ever had that in a Bethesda game before.  Not like most of Skyrim's questlines were retarded.  Not like Fallout 3's story was dumb as ****.  Nope.  **** story really is unique to Fallout 4.  And the 'not enough RPG mechanics' thing sounds like exactly the same stuff people said about Skyrim.  Actually, most of this is.  So what you're really saying is that this game is a lot like Skyrim.

Skyrims story was a masterpiece in comparison. The writing keeps getting worse and lazier.

"But who plays a RPG for the story!" .. Really? If you're gonna defend F04 that hard, you're more pathetic than I have ever been


Quote
Also, pls tell me more about how SotS2 is a great game!

Here we go again, digging for past crimes and character assasination when lacking proper counter-arguments.
Do tell me exactly how is FO4 a good RPG?
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 20, 2015, 05:18:53 am
TrashMan valiantly staking his claim on "They Changed  It Now It Sucks" Hill and ready to take on all comers, none of whom actually arrived because they were all having too much fun playing Fallout 4 to care about his opinions.

We get it.  Thank you for your remarkable (questionably useful) foresight.  Now quit ****ting up the thread.  You were asked nicely to leave once already, this is your only other friendly request.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Aesaar on November 20, 2015, 05:35:11 am
Skyrims story was a masterpiece in comparison. The writing keeps getting worse and lazier.

"But who plays a RPG for the story!" .. Really? If you're gonna defend F04 that hard, you're more pathetic than I have ever been
Says the guy on a personal crusade against a game he hasn't played.

Quote
Here we go again, digging for past crimes and character assasination when lacking proper counter-arguments.
Do tell me exactly how is FO4 a good RPG?
Dunno, it's not worth 80$ to me, so I haven't played it.  But neither have you, and at least I'm not commenting on the game itself.  But if I was to venture an educated guess (judging by the comments made by Scotty, Ralwood, and Hades on IRC), I'd say "because it's fun."  Since you're a Kerberos fan, I suspect fun is a pretty alien concept to you, but it's important to most people.

And your ****ty taste in games is pertinent when discussing your opinion of this one.  Again, maybe in the future you should try not having ****ty opinions.  Might help with your credibility.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2015, 05:38:32 am
Now quit ****ting up the thread.  You were asked nicely to leave once already, this is your only other friendly request.

Am I being problematic?
Does contrary opinion trigger you?
Good.

I like it how your only comeback is "But I'm having fun!"
So am I. Watching garbage can be fun.

If only you could figure out that RPG actually means...
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2015, 05:46:06 am
Quote
Says the guy on a personal crusade against a game he hasn't played.

Calling out s*** practices and degradation of RPG's is now a crusade?
If that's the case, I've been crusading for a long time.


Quote
Dunno, it's not worth 80$ to me, so I haven't played it.  But neither have you

And you would know that how exactly?


Quote
But if I was to venture an educated guess (judging by the comments made of Scotty, Ralwood, and Hades on IRC), I'd say "because it's fun."  Radical concept, I know.

You do realize people can have fun with s***?
Gimme a few beers and a few friends and the worst movie or game ever made, and I'm going to laugh the whole night. That won't make it a good game/movie. Or at the very least, not a good entry in the genre.


Quote
And your ****ty taste in game is pertinent when discussing your opinion of this one.  Again, maybe in the future you should try not having ****ty opinions.  Might help with your credibility.

 I know "your waifu is ****, your game is ****, etc.." is common on imageboards, but it doesn't have the same flair on forums.
I'm not telling you you're wrong for liking it (or having **** taste).
I'm telling you you're wrong when you're calling it a great RPG. Because it's not.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: The E on November 20, 2015, 05:46:59 am
Can we please get away from this childish "You like something I don't, you suck" bull**** this thread has devolved into?

However much you might disagree with Trashman, he does have valid criticisms (Because "this game isn't what I hoped it would be" is entirely valid); he does have the right to voice that opinion.

That said, Trashman, you do not have the right to tell people they're having wrongfun. You do not get to dictate what is enjoyable and what isn't, and that means you do not get to troll this topic the way you are doing right now.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Aesaar on November 20, 2015, 05:53:11 am
EDIT: You know what, **** it.  The_E's right.  Arguing with you is beneath me.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: NGTM-1R on November 20, 2015, 06:12:12 am
However much you might disagree with Trashman, he does have valid criticisms (Because "this game isn't what I hoped it would be" is entirely valid); he does have the right to voice that opinion.

However I don't think he has a right for "valid criticisms" consideration when talking about the lack of a perk system, or infinite ammo, or any of the other arguments about the game mechanics that people who have actually played the game have said are wrong.

And given that, his manifest ignorance of mechanics of the game, a statement like "this game is not what I expected" must lose some credibility. Forming an opinion from false and incomplete facts does not necessarily mean it is invalid, but it certainly makes it more likely.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: The E on November 20, 2015, 06:37:26 am
Sure. And his refusal to engage with those arguments is why I am calling what he's doing trolling.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2015, 01:33:43 pm
That said, Trashman, you do not have the right to tell people they're having wrongfun. You do not get to dictate what is enjoyable and what isn't, and that means you do not get to troll this topic the way you are doing right now.

Where did I say that?
I SPECIFICALLY said one can have fun or find enjoyment in anything, and it's OK.
FFS, I adore The Room, yet it's one of the worst movies ever made!



However I don't think he has a right for "valid criticisms" consideration when talking about the lack of a perk system, or infinite ammo, or any of the other arguments about the game mechanics that people who have actually played the game have said are wrong.

The new perk system is s***, that's non-debatable. So little depth to it, so little sense.
Skill system IS gone
Infinite ammo should have been infinite ammo capacity, my bad.

What else? You seem to happily ignore every argument where I am right.


Quote
And given that, his manifest ignorance of mechanics of the game, a statement like "this game is not what I expected" must lose some credibility. Forming an opinion from false and incomplete facts does not necessarily mean it is invalid, but it certainly makes it more likely.

This game sells itself as a RPG. So I judge it as such. And it fails as a RPG on all fronts.
It might be a decent shooter, and if you like it because of it, fine.

But it seems as if you display a staggering ignorance of what a RPG is or is supposed to be.
But go ahead, try to prove me wrong. Demonstrate to me how this is a better RPG game than it's predecessors. I'll wait.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AtomicClucker on November 20, 2015, 01:40:58 pm
Meh, Fallout4 is pretty much a shallow RPG by usual Bethsoft standards.

It's an action game. But Trashman, enjoy charging at windmills. The game has its faults, it has its boons, but at least realize your charging off a rail here. Call it a polished turd if you so desire but realize people will give you plenty of shrugs or raise eyebrows.

I'm not singing it praises and plan to get it after the GOTY edition is released - pretty much a more pretty version of Fallout 3. For me the hype quickly evaporated after watching numerous streams.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: headdie on November 20, 2015, 02:23:29 pm
ohhh look, trashman is out of monkey
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Lorric on November 20, 2015, 03:03:13 pm
Check out the Metacritic score on this one
85 compared to New Vegas's 84? Sounds fine to me.
He's talking about the user score which is just 5.3.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/fallout-4/user-reviews

New Vegas' user score is 8.5.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Scotty on November 20, 2015, 05:33:03 pm
The new perk system is s***, that's non-debatable. So little depth to it, so little sense.
Skill system IS gone

It has roughly a hundred times more depth than any other Fallout Perk system, by sheer virtue of having multiple levels of perks and the hilarious ways some perks can interact (for example, Ricochet and Bloody Mess at their highest levels) (and also have no fewer than 229 perks), and enhanced by being available to any character right off the bat as long as you pay for it (in SPECIALs).  If I want Grim Reaper Sprint at 2nd level, I can do it.  It makes a character's progression up to the player, prioritizing things that enhance personal playstyles.  Just like your precious skills used to.  The skill system being gone is a positive thing, much like getting rid of skill points in D&D 5th edition.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 20, 2015, 07:30:20 pm
The new perk system is s***, that's non-debatable.
Whoops, looks like people are debating it. So much for that.

This game sells itself as a RPG. So I judge it as such. And it fails as a RPG on all fronts.
It might be a decent shooter, and if you like it because of it, fine.

But it seems as if you display a staggering ignorance of what a RPG is or is supposed to be.
But go ahead, try to prove me wrong. Demonstrate to me how this is a better RPG game than it's predecessors. I'll wait.
How about you define what you think an RPG is before we start playing the No True RPG game?

What else? You seem to happily ignore every argument where I am right.
I just ignore you when you talk about the plot because I haven't finished it.
Spoiler:
I'm still waiting for you to explain how you can craft legendary weapons.

EDIT:
Check out the Metacritic score on this one
85 compared to New Vegas's 84? Sounds fine to me.
He's talking about the user score which is just 5.3.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/fallout-4/user-reviews

New Vegas' user score is 8.5.
Hmm... 5.3 based on 4734 ratings.

Whereas the Steam page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/377160/) is 80% positive based on 29,538 user reviews.

That says something, all right; probably the uselessness of looking at averaged review scores from large populations.
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: Grizzly on November 21, 2015, 03:45:44 am
A short reminder on userscores:
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--poGGFsLe--/18j27cdghe0nujpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Fallout 4 - Apperently quite good
Post by: karajorma on November 21, 2015, 04:12:37 am
ohhh look, trashman is out of monkey

Was. Was out of monkey. He's got another week off for his complete inability to leave this alone.


@Trashman, you don't like Fallout 4. You didn't like it before you'd even played it. We get it. Stop making **** up to convince us we shouldn't like it too. And I speak as someone who hasn't played the game and probably won't for years but it is completely obvious that you've decided you don't like the game and are willing to make up reasons why rather than commenting on actual things you didn't like. That's simply not acceptable and you're banned for it.