Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: jr2 on January 13, 2020, 11:47:57 pm
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Windows 7 support ended today (unless you've got Enterprise, in which case you can pay an increasing annual fee starting at $100 to retain support, for up to three years). As far as I know, you can still get the free upgrade by downloading Windows 10 from Microsoft here (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10), as outlined in this ZDNet article (https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/). You can always uninstall later if it doesn't work.
EDIT: Oh, and disable the telemetry stuff with O&O ShutUp10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10).
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XP FTW! :D
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If I wanted to use the free Windows 10 upgrade I would have either done it when it became available or when Win 10 has matured a bit.
I might be at some point forced to switch if I want to use some of the most recent hardware or play some modern games, but today definitely isn't the day.
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I am using Win7-64 and my intention is to pick up an SSD this summer (funds depending) and a copy of Win10-64 and set it up as a dual-boot system.
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I have a pretty complicated setup with 7 controllers and some older games. I was worried that a Windows 10 upgrade would make life miserable but I did an image of my Windows 7 64 system and used the Windows Update Assistant and did an upgrade to Windows 10 Pro for free. Any legal Win7 key will let you do this for free. I had no problems with any of my older games running and I think it actually runs some games better.
I then went around the house and upgraded all my machines.
Do it while it is still free,
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
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I created a new 7 partition on both my own and my parents' machines and upgraded them to 10 back when the free upgrade was first announced. I didn't even touch them until this weekend when I used GParted to resize them and start actually using 10. There were some misadventures (GParted nerfed something with booting on both partitions, so I had to use my 7 install disk to repair things), but so far so decent.
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I have been very satisfied with Win10. only thing that was an inconvenience I had to do was disable the tracking/logging. Other than that I just don't mess with much and let windows handle itself (except active update hours - configured those for something that works for me and have been satisfied so far).
Honestly 10 is probably my favorite windows to date, and I've spent a lot of time using 2000, XP, and 7.
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I'm assuming all the people refusing to leave 7 are the same ones who refused to leave XP? NEW BAD, OLD GOOD. HARUMPH.
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Seriously. Win10 is fine. It's got all the functionality. Everything works. How much more "maturity" do you want?
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I think I might get win-10 and/or make a duel-boot after I get some upgrades.
I'm not sure I can just put 10 in this machine as smoothly as everyone else here. . . .
*looks at super old motherboard that can't accept more then 8 GB of RAM*
*looks at how I have a duel-boot with Ubuntu that does not work very well*
*Thinks about how I have to use Ctrl-Shift-Esc and create a new task to manually finish the booting the PC because the registry's so borked*
*Stares in horror at realization that drive-cloning may not work / might cause these issues to carry over*
*and how my files are spread over my two hard-drives and that I need to go in and sort/save them all*
*looks at all the no-money I have for a new machine*
. . .
I'll have to wait a few more months. . .
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I have been very satisfied with Win10. only thing that was an inconvenience I had to do was disable the tracking/logging. Other than that I just don't mess with much and let windows handle itself (except active update hours - configured those for something that works for me and have been satisfied so far).
Honestly 10 is probably my favorite windows to date, and I've spent a lot of time using 2000, XP, and 7.
Oh, thanks, I forgot. Disable telemetry with O&O ShutUp10 (https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10).
Really, if you're on 7, at least get the upgrade on a cloned partition or drive or something. Win 10 is much faster (uses newer tech such as memory compression, which is much faster than using uncompressed memory pages, etc). That way you at least have the option to use 10 later.
EDIT: Oh, and look, the cleanest way to do this is a clean install, either replacing, or dual-booting with your current OS, after you complete the upgrade. Once you've finished the upgrade and gone online, your hardware is licenced for Windows 10 and you can clean install Win 10 straight from a flash drive onto a wiped or new drive, and it will auto-activate once it's online.
As has been mentioned, you can use a valid Win 7 / 8 / 8.1 key during a clean install to do the same thing, and you could get the key using Magical Jellybean Keyfinder (https://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/), however some AV software think it's a virus (it isn't, it can just *shock* read your product keys :rolleyes: ).
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Seriously. Win10 is fine. It's got all the functionality. Everything works. How much more "maturity" do you want?
Win10 has a tendency to mess up compatibility with older games with each update. And I don't mean old games as they are, I mean the gog versions with the fixes and everything.
My experience on the gog forums is that if someone has some weird issue that should have already been solved he probably has windows 10.
I'll still probably need to make the jump sooner or later but I am in no rush.
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Seriously. Win10 is fine. It's got all the functionality. Everything works. How much more "maturity" do you want?
Win10 has a tendency to mess up compatibility with older games with each update. And I don't mean old games as they are, I mean the gog versions with the fixes and everything.
My experience on the gog forums is that if someone has some weird issue that should have already been solved he probably has windows 10.
I'll still probably need to make the jump sooner or later but I am in no rush.
Does running older games in compatability mode make a difference?
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Seriously. Win10 is fine. It's got all the functionality. Everything works. How much more "maturity" do you want?
Win10 has a tendency to mess up compatibility with older games with each update. And I don't mean old games as they are, I mean the gog versions with the fixes and everything.
My experience on the gog forums is that if someone has some weird issue that should have already been solved he probably has windows 10.
I'll still probably need to make the jump sooner or later but I am in no rush.
Does running older games in compatability mode make a difference?
From what I understand no, because it's not the games themselves but the various compatibility fixes that got broken like the wrappers for the redbook audio many older windows games had.
Sometimes it's also windows randomly disabling legacy features that were enabled before updating, directplay is the most frequent.
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I was about to write that I have had zero issues with games on Windows 10, but then you reminded me that I had to go manually enable DirectPlay. Win10 also does not play nice (or at all, really) with SecuROM DRM, but for all of my SuckuWRONG games I was already using a no-disc .exe. I still have an XP partition set up from when I migrated to Windows 7 64-bit, in case I needed it for some older games, but I literally have not touched that partition in years.
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Win10 also does not play nice (or at all, really) with SecuROM DRM
Given how DRM used to work I think this might be a feature.
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Actually, do tell - are there any accessible ways to make the Win10 interface more like a normal system? (Compared to Win 7 at least, I really like my functional interface on my device that will not see any sort of touch screen or tablet EVER)
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I use Open Shell to get the start menu to look like Win7.
https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
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I use Open Shell to get the start menu to look like Win7.
https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
I used to, but now I use Start Menu Reviver
https://www.reviversoft.com/start-menu-reviver/
Also, have a look here for a list of those kind of programs: https://alternativeto.net/software/classic-start/
So, to address compatibility: see if you can set up dual-boot and have one Win 10 partition for everything that's not old and Win 7 for everything else. You can still as far as I can tell use Windows 7 using your key on a different partition.
You can also delay Windows 10 updates for a long time and move into even more stable update rings than the normal ring Windows has, IIRC. I forget the Group Policy tweaks you have to apply, but I've done them and it's much less annoying now (I also forced the auto-restart off).
First if you have Win 10 Home: https://www.itechtics.com/enable-gpedit-windows-10-home/
https://tweaks.com/windows/67201/configure-windows-10-to-prompt-for-update-installs/
https://4sysops.com/archives/disable-windows-10-update-in-the-registry-and-with-powershell/
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I can't remember the last time I scrolled the start menu...
Win key -> type the first few letters of the app I want -> press enter
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hard same
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Win 10's search bar is the best addition to the start menu in forever.
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I use Windows 10 exclusively with Classic Shell and a custom dark theme. That O&O Shutup tool is also very good. I kept a XP install for a long time on my gaming box for a few old games, but no longer use it for anything. I do have XP and 98 VMs for a few things.
Seriously. Win10 is fine. It's got all the functionality. Everything works. How much more "maturity" do you want?
Win10 has a tendency to mess up compatibility with older games with each update. And I don't mean old games as they are, I mean the gog versions with the fixes and everything.
My experience on the gog forums is that if someone has some weird issue that should have already been solved he probably has windows 10.
I'll still probably need to make the jump sooner or later but I am in no rush.
I find that new video card drivers are often a bigger culprit with this, more than the Windows updates. In general though, it's easier to get old games working today than it used to be 5-10 years ago, due to DGVoodoo, PCgamingwiki, more mature VMWare, etc. Windows 10 has also fixed other issues with old games that 8.1 had, and in general I find the compatibility better than 8.1.
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Oh, hey, that reminds me: quick shoutout to 86Box for those that haven't seen the thread on that here (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=95940.0) (TL;DR: emulate every piece of hardware down to sound, HDD controllers, mobo, BIOS, and CPU).
EDIT: And if you're not using Void Tools' Everything (https://www.voidtools.com/), you're doing it wrong (you will NEVER go back). For quick text-based launching and running commands, try Launchy (https://www.launchy.net/) (not really updated any more but pretty slick) and / or Wox (http://www.wox.one/) (simple gray box, is actually updated). Want an OSX Launchpad for Windows? Try WinLaunch (http://winlaunch.org/).
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I created a new 7 partition on both my own and my parents' machines and upgraded them to 10 back when the free upgrade was first announced. I didn't even touch them until this weekend when I used GParted to resize them and start actually using 10. There were some misadventures (GParted nerfed something with booting on both partitions, so I had to use my 7 install disk to repair things), but so far so decent.
BTW, GParted should have set off a chkdsk at next boot after resizing NTFS partitions. If you skip it it can cause problems. Might be it, not sure.
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Yeah it did, and it worked out fine, as did the Windows repair feature beforehand.
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I only have a 500gb SSD that is always three quarters full so a partition is not advisable, perhaps I can get a second one later for windows 10.
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I only have a 500gb SSD that is always three quarters full so a partition is not advisable, perhaps I can get a second one later for windows 10.
Probs good idea. I find 1TB to be ample for storing everything I use semi-regularly (besides larger games, those I put on the spinny disk unless I'm using them all the time).
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Is it still good standing advice to disable indexing on an SSD? I have a 5-year-old Samsung 850 Evo, and I did it through the drive properties dialog, but it does seem to nerf Windows' ability to search somewhat.
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Is it still good standing advice to disable indexing on an SSD? I have a 5-year-old Samsung 850 Evo, and I did it through the drive properties dialog, but it does seem to nerf Windows' ability to search somewhat.
Nah, I have the same drive, and an 860.
Just download and install Samsung Magician, and let that optimize Windows settings for you. In the main screen, I'd recommend flipping on RAPID mode, and somewhere there was an option to optimize Windows settings for the drive. I can't seem to find it now, probably because I've already run it, but perhaps it's been automated by Samsung or Windows at this point, I'm not sure. Regardless, you can get Samsung Magician from the category here:
Samsung Magician Software for Consumer SSD(4) (https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools/#download_tab_0101_anchorpar1-st_semi_down_list_ex)
(should auto-expand for you, you want Magician Software 6.0.0 as of 1/21/2020)
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Windows 10 will automatically handle your SSD as necessary. Limiting indexing was because SSDs have limited read/writes before sectors go kaput and older OS's didn't worry about that sort of thing. Windows 10 is fully aware of your SSD and how to keep it's longevity by minimizing read/writes to sectors all over the disk. The built-in trim/optimize function is specifically for that.
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Windows 10 will automatically handle your SSD as necessary. Limiting indexing was because SSDs have limited read/writes before sectors go kaput and older OS's didn't worry about that sort of thing. Windows 10 is fully aware of your SSD and how to keep it's longevity by minimizing read/writes to sectors all over the disk. The built-in trim/optimize function is specifically for that.
Plus, modern SSDs have read/write lifetimes exceeding those of most PCs. Even a relatively old drive like a Samsung 850 is rated for a lifetime endurance in excess of 75TB; under normal usage patterns (read: anything that does not involve writing dozens of gigabytes to the drive daily), that drive will be fine for years to come. Anecdotally, I bought one of those in 2012 or so and used it as my main drive for years, when I transferred it to my mom's laptop to give that thing a little boost, it was still perfectly healthy.
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Yeah, 5 years in and I'm showing 10 TB of lifetime usage in Samsung Magician. I don't see myself still using it 40 years down the road. :p
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Sheesh, while our talking about SSDs is kinda offtopic here, I'm just going to add one more penny to that. :P
Yesterday I've replaced a super old 40GB 3,5" platter drive in a CNC machine supervising computer for just your standard 120GB SSD. Cloned the partitions, and there we go - massive speed increase for about $30. Also need to consider reliability, too.
Now that I look at it, there isn't really any reason not to buy an SSD for any sort of new computer you're building, or switch to one on your current one. I've been looking at prices per GB of SSD storage steadily drop through the last couple years to as low as a third of what they were when I started observing them, this is just insane.
Or well, platter drives are still okay for bulk storage due to cost, but seriously, which typical user with steady Internet access does any large scale data collecting nowadays?
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Or well, platter drives are still okay for bulk storage due to cost, but seriously, which typical user with steady Internet access does any large scale data collecting nowadays?
I'm guessing the kind of people that still dual boot Windows XP are the kind of people to save and organize every app they ever downloaded from the internet just in case they need it again 10 years down the road.
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How is win 10s driver support. I've got an m17x r4 alienware from 2012 running 7 professional, I've got setup os discs etc so happy to reformat every so often Buuuuuut.
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Win 10 will happily use any driver from 7 or later.
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Sheesh, while our talking about SSDs is kinda offtopic here, I'm just going to add one more penny to that. :P
Yesterday I've replaced a super old 40GB 3,5" platter drive in a CNC machine supervising computer for just your standard 120GB SSD. Cloned the partitions, and there we go - massive speed increase for about $30. Also need to consider reliability, too.
Now that I look at it, there isn't really any reason not to buy an SSD for any sort of new computer you're building, or switch to one on your current one. I've been looking at prices per GB of SSD storage steadily drop through the last couple years to as low as a third of what they were when I started observing them, this is just insane.
Or well, platter drives are still okay for bulk storage due to cost, but seriously, which typical user with steady Internet access does any large scale data collecting nowadays?
/me looks at his 8TB Western Digital Red drive sitting in his system next to his 2TB WD Green drive
Me, I guess?
FWIW, I do a pretty decent amount of read / write, and combining both of my SSDs CrystalDiskInfo says I've written 30TB since I built this system what, 3, 4 years ago?
EDIT: Oh, FYI Win 10 makes "formatting" a breeze - just search for Reset this PC in the start menu and away you go, no OS installation, it's easy as pie. 99% of the time that's all you need, as it's basically restoring from an always up-to-date restore file. Sort of like a smartphone I guess?